You missed the part that the averages of the classes doesn't matter. Just comparing PSU starters vs Ok St starters, 8 of PSU 10 starters going on to big 10s were top 10 p4p and Conaway and mccutcheon were top 35. OK st had zero top 10 p4p starters. Some of the class rsnkings get skewed from depth, but As far as top end recruits PSU has more than all the other teams combined.
Penn state
- Thread starter giddyup
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Yeah in PSU class ranked 21 included Retherford, him alone makes it a top 5 class.
when it comes to scoring at nationals, give me one diamond in each class, and I'll give you all the rough you'd like to have. 4 or 5 20 point scorers with others sprinkled in will win most years. I don't know, but I suspect Cael's philosophy is to focus on dynamic #1 recruits and let the #30 guys take the scholly leftovers.
Whatever Cael`s strategy has been it has certainly been effective. He has done a great job at Penn State there is no doubt about that but I would bet John is still looking to win every year not to come in 2nd to Penn State or anyone else it has just not worked out for us the past few years.
Brock is going to be a dynamo for you guys. It really is too bad he got hurt. If he wrestles this weekend, I believe he's top 3 and we are all pins and needles tonight.
I mis remembered a few things, Conoway was actually ranked 109, the 17th ranked class had Gulibon, Retherfords class was ranked 7th.
For comparison though here are the teams post season starters class rankings, first number is PSU second is Ok St.
125: 3,34
133: 109, 46
141: 3, 13
149: 3, 21
157: 4, 16
165: ?, 15
174: 7, 13
184: 32, Unranked walk on
197:1, 109
285: 5, 25
Actually only 7 in the top 10, but they could have thrown 5 Joseph in there at 165.
For comparison though here are the teams post season starters class rankings, first number is PSU second is Ok St.
125: 3,34
133: 109, 46
141: 3, 13
149: 3, 21
157: 4, 16
165: ?, 15
174: 7, 13
184: 32, Unranked walk on
197:1, 109
285: 5, 25
Actually only 7 in the top 10, but they could have thrown 5 Joseph in there at 165.
to take it a step further, 5 of the 7 PSU top ten guys are in the finals. 1 of the 3 others placed 5th.
A top 5 class that uses less scholarship money than some of the classes ranked ahead. That is the point. Cael signs less recruits but higher end recruits. He then has more in state kids walking on.
Penn State had 123 points in the tournament and loses 50 points from graduating Srs. Oklahoma State had 97.5 points and loses 36 points or another way Penn State returns 73 points and Oklahoma State returns 62.5 points.
As has been pointed out Penn State will gain the services of Nevils next year and they also have Jared Cortez to replace Conaway. I am certain there are others on the roster this year that might start next year but in addition to the roster they recruited five wrestlers including Mark Hall at 174 and I am hearing rumors that Nickal will go up to 184 or even 197 next year and Mark Hall will start at 174. Luke Suriano another highly ranked recruit might step into Megaludis's place at 125. When you through in a Mason Manville at 157 they have a lot of options.
Oklahoma State will replace Klimara with Piccinnini at 125 and Harding with Kaid Brock at 133. In addition Crutchmer will return at 174 and Chandler Rogers should return to 165 where he will battle Chance Marsteller to start at this weight. Our problem was Penn State's problem this year in that we probably are without a proven or quality heavy weight. I know that Austin Schafer is going up to heavy weight next year but how good will he be?
Our recruit at heavyweight may turn out to be very good but most probably not in his freshman year.
Most are performing near their rankings, gulibon was ranked third. He's not at that level, but he's in the lineup and beating done good guys while being up a weight. Due to injuries the altons underperformed, but generally their top guys are crushing it.
Of the 7 top ten HS ranked kids in PSU's lineup (includes Nevills who did not qualify), 5 made the finals and one did not place. Of the 3 kids outside the top ten, one placed 5th and the other two did not place.
My opinion of PSU's lineup next year is as follows:
Suriano
cortez
gulibon
retherford
nolf
joseph
nickal/rasheed
rasheed/nickal
cassar/stout
nevills
I think rasheed goes 184 after failing to hold 165. That is unless Bo wants to move up, then rasheed at 174. Joseph (rsfr) and Suriano (fr) are expected to come out of the gate running. They are good. Cortez is highly touted, but I know much less about him. Many believe if Rasheed hadn't been a skeleton that he has great potential.
I think next year is a 3 team race between Ok St, tOSU, and PSU, with Iowa and VT close behind. Cael was paraphrased in the after Nationals party that he has been looking forward to next year for a couple years now. fwiw
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If you add projected or predicted points scored by Brock and Crutchmer I think there is a strong argument that puts us above PSU and possibly even OhSt. as the team who (theoretically) returns the most points.
Going to have to do better than that. The Brock/Harding delta slightly higher than Cortez/Conaway. But KC/CR and then the negative of CR/AD won't net above what PSU picks up at 184. Plus they will pickup more at HWT. There's got to be big improvement at 125 & 197 plus a focus on bonus points.
What was he supposed to say? Projecting uncertainty doesn't motivate fans and money.
well, he's never said that before, so ...
That wasn't the point of my post anyway. When I try to honestly evaluate next year's PSU team and take off my tinted glasses, I see us in the neighborhood of 115 points, with 197 being the biggest question mark, followed by 184.
I don't know much at all about what PSU will bring in to fill their holes but I assume they will have talent to do so.
I am just projecting about something I do have knowledge about on this dusscusion board.
We have 61.5 points returning which does not include Crutchmer or Brock. From rankings and projections both could have slotted into 3rd - 6th at nationals. Replacing Rogers points with an average for Crutchmers projected points you get a net gain of 10. Adding in Brock's estimated points you get a net gain of 15. Currently we have zero coming back at 165 but Rogers scored 5 this year up a weight class so 8-10 next year is far from a stretch.
That puts OSU with a projected 96.5 without taking into account for our 125 pounder who was a top 25 ranked national recruit and who beat the kid who finished 7th this year. It also takes in no improvement from guys like Collica, Smith, Boyd, and Weigel.
If healthy both PSU and OSU will be neck and neck just as they would have been this year if both were fully healthy.
Yeah, it should be fun next year!
Of the cuff...
125 - possible AA. I really see him doing well
133 - who knows how he handles the injury mentally, but the weight clears out pretty good at the top. AA
141 - returning Champ
149 - weight stays the same pretty much...but should produce another AA
157 - healthy and determined, but going to be tough to get in the Finals.
165 - weight loses some power and we have two options here most likely. AA
174 - should AA
184 - weight loses a ton it seems, should follow up as an AA
197 - another weight that loses some good guys, hopefully Weigle improves enough toAA
285 - who knows?
Could have 8 AAs? PSU will be stout with 3 returning Finalists and a stacked 10.
Of the cuff...
125 - possible AA. I really see him doing well
133 - who knows how he handles the injury mentally, but the weight clears out pretty good at the top. AA
141 - returning Champ
149 - weight stays the same pretty much...but should produce another AA
157 - healthy and determined, but going to be tough to get in the Finals.
165 - weight loses some power and we have two options here most likely. AA
174 - should AA
184 - weight loses a ton it seems, should follow up as an AA
197 - another weight that loses some good guys, hopefully Weigle improves enough toAA
285 - who knows?
Could have 8 AAs? PSU will be stout with 3 returning Finalists and a stacked 10.
I think right now Joe has shown he can beat any at 157 not named Martinez, Nolf or Miller. Think the healthy Miller that wrestler Martinez in the semi would've been difficult for Joe to beat this year. He knows how to beat Palacio, just made a mistake. Gantt, Miller, Pack, Barscetta are all gone next year.
Thinks Joe's style matches up better against Nolf, and don't see Nolf staying 157 for 4 year, but Joe might still be growing as well.
At the beginning of the season there was talk of Joe wrestling 149. that is not where he was needed, but if it really was a consideration he may be able to stay at 157 for 4 years. We appear to be crowed enough at 165 through 184 next year.
I also thought the light went on for Preston Weigel and he could very well be a three time AA for us. Maybe not at the top of the podium, but he does appear to have the tools to get there. It has been quite awhile since I have seen hand strength like he has. That will work well for him if the 4 point back exposure stays.
I also thought the light went on for Preston Weigel and he could very well be a three time AA for us. Maybe not at the top of the podium, but he does appear to have the tools to get there. It has been quite awhile since I have seen hand strength like he has. That will work well for him if the 4 point back exposure stays.
