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New Jan 6 surprise hearing (June 28)

davidallen said:
She said a lot. Surprised you haven't bothered to watch or read the transcript. You seem to have very strong opinions about this whole thing. Here is a sample of interesting things she said:
  • "As Mr. Giuliani and I were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, Cass, are you excited for the 6th? It's going to be a great day. I remember looking at him saying, Rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? He had responded something to the effect of, we're going to the Capitol. It's going to be great. The President's going to be there. He's going to look powerful. He's — he's going to be with the members. He's going to be with the Senators. Talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it. He knows about it."
  • "I remember leaning against the doorway and saying, I just had an interesting conversation with Rudy, Mark. It sounds like we're going to go to the Capitol. He didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, Cass, but I don't know. Things might get real, real bad on January 6th."
  • "I recall hearing the word Oath Keeper and hearing the word Proud Boys closer to the planning of the January 6th rally when Mr. Giuliani would be around."
  • "I remember Mr. Ornato had talked to him about intelligence reports. I just remember Mr. Ornato coming in and saying that we had intel reports saying that there could potentially be violence on the 6th."
  • "I recall Tony and I having a conversation with Mark probably around 10 a.m., 10:15 a.m. where I remember Tony mentioning knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears, and flagpoles. Spears were one item, flagpoles were one item. But then Tony had related to me something to the effect of and these effing people are fastening spears onto the ends of flagpoles."
  • "I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the President say something to the effect of, you know, I - - I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take that effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the effing mags away."
  • "that's what Tony had been trying to relay to him that morning. You know, it's not the issues that we encounter on the campaign. We have enough space, Sir. They don't want to come in right now. They — they have weapons that they don't want confiscated by the Secret Service. And they're fine on the mall. They can see you on the mall and they're — they want to march straight to the Capitol from the mall."
  • "Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."
  • "Having a private conversation with Pat late in the afternoon of the 3rd or 4th that Pat was concerned it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the Electoral College count. And I apologize for probably not being so very clear with my legal terms here, but that it would look like we were obstructing what was happening on Capitol Hill. And he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot to erupt on the Capitol — at the Capitol."
  • "Mr. Meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with Secret Service on a movement from the White House to the Willard Hotel so he could attend the meeting or meetings with Mr. Giuliani and his associates in the war room."
  • "I remember Pat saying to him something to the effect of, the rioters have gotten to the Capitol, Mark. We need to go down and see the President now. And Mark looked up at him and said, he doesn't want to do anything, Pat."
  • "I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f'ing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it."
  • "As a staffer that worked to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, I remember feeling frustrated and disappointed, and really it felt personal. I — I was really sad. As an American, I was disgusted. It was unpatriotic."

Lots more for your reading pleasure. Have fun!
Click to expand...
"I recall hearing..."; "I remember learning..." "I remember Pat saying something to the effect..." :D :D :D

No hearsay there!!

Carry on...
 
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my_2cents said:
Exactly, they are saying none of this under oath. Meadows isn't under oath. In fact, he has refused to sit down under oath and answer questions from the Select Committee. Today, Cheney stated that the Committee welcomed any further testimony from the Secret Service under oath. She also noted that Engel has already testified to the Committee along with Tony Ornato and that she remains absolutely confident in Hutchinson's testimony. That should tell you something.

On top of all that, Pat Cipollone has been subpoenaed by the Committee to testify under oath. Do you think he will? Do you think he should?

I find it interesting Dan that your latest attempt to defend Trump in all of this is to argue that it doesn't matter what he says or does, what matters is whether or not those around him listen to his orders and obey. Does this mean, therefore, that you believe those around him should testify under oath to this Committee? Shouldn't Meadows testify? And Cipollone? According to your logic, they should and to not do so is very dangerous.
Click to expand...
Yes, they should ALL be called before the committee and testify. Furthermore ALL questions should be relevant as to whether Trump is responsible for the riot, which, I believe, is what they’re trying to prove. I personally don’t see the relevance of what happened in the vehicle to the riot. But it is clear those who hate Trump with a white-hot passion think it’s a game changer.
 
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my_2cents said:
Currently, we are seeing testimony under oath to this Committee from those who didn't want to follow Trump blindly. And what is happening? They are being attacked and degraded by the Trump cult.

Also, the Committee is requesting testimony under oath from others in Trump's circle. Again, according to your logic, they should testify under oath as to their actions because what they did matters.
Click to expand...
I don’t give a rat’s fanny if the Trump people attack and degrade someone who refuses to obey an unlawful order, they can attack and degrade all they want. I commend anyone who stands by his commitment to his oath.
 
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davidallen said:
She said a lot. Surprised you haven't bothered to watch or read the transcript. You seem to have very strong opinions about this whole thing. Here is a sample of interesting things she said:
  • "As Mr. Giuliani and I were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, Cass, are you excited for the 6th? It's going to be a great day. I remember looking at him saying, Rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? He had responded something to the effect of, we're going to the Capitol. It's going to be great. The President's going to be there. He's going to look powerful. He's — he's going to be with the members. He's going to be with the Senators. Talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it. He knows about it."
  • "I remember leaning against the doorway and saying, I just had an interesting conversation with Rudy, Mark. It sounds like we're going to go to the Capitol. He didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, Cass, but I don't know. Things might get real, real bad on January 6th."
  • "I recall hearing the word Oath Keeper and hearing the word Proud Boys closer to the planning of the January 6th rally when Mr. Giuliani would be around."
  • "I remember Mr. Ornato had talked to him about intelligence reports. I just remember Mr. Ornato coming in and saying that we had intel reports saying that there could potentially be violence on the 6th."
  • "I recall Tony and I having a conversation with Mark probably around 10 a.m., 10:15 a.m. where I remember Tony mentioning knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears, and flagpoles. Spears were one item, flagpoles were one item. But then Tony had related to me something to the effect of and these effing people are fastening spears onto the ends of flagpoles."
  • "I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the President say something to the effect of, you know, I - - I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take that effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the effing mags away."
  • "that's what Tony had been trying to relay to him that morning. You know, it's not the issues that we encounter on the campaign. We have enough space, Sir. They don't want to come in right now. They — they have weapons that they don't want confiscated by the Secret Service. And they're fine on the mall. They can see you on the mall and they're — they want to march straight to the Capitol from the mall."
  • "Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."
  • "Having a private conversation with Pat late in the afternoon of the 3rd or 4th that Pat was concerned it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the Electoral College count. And I apologize for probably not being so very clear with my legal terms here, but that it would look like we were obstructing what was happening on Capitol Hill. And he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot to erupt on the Capitol — at the Capitol."
  • "Mr. Meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with Secret Service on a movement from the White House to the Willard Hotel so he could attend the meeting or meetings with Mr. Giuliani and his associates in the war room."
  • "I remember Pat saying to him something to the effect of, the rioters have gotten to the Capitol, Mark. We need to go down and see the President now. And Mark looked up at him and said, he doesn't want to do anything, Pat."
  • "I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f'ing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it."
  • "As a staffer that worked to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, I remember feeling frustrated and disappointed, and really it felt personal. I — I was really sad. As an American, I was disgusted. It was unpatriotic."

Lots more for your reading pleasure. Have fun!
Click to expand...
 
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davidallen said:
She said a lot. Surprised you haven't bothered to watch or read the transcript. You seem to have very strong opinions about this whole thing. Here is a sample of interesting things she said:
  • "As Mr. Giuliani and I were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of, Cass, are you excited for the 6th? It's going to be a great day. I remember looking at him saying, Rudy, could you explain what's happening on the 6th? He had responded something to the effect of, we're going to the Capitol. It's going to be great. The President's going to be there. He's going to look powerful. He's — he's going to be with the members. He's going to be with the Senators. Talk to the chief about it, talk to the chief about it. He knows about it."
  • "I remember leaning against the doorway and saying, I just had an interesting conversation with Rudy, Mark. It sounds like we're going to go to the Capitol. He didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on, Cass, but I don't know. Things might get real, real bad on January 6th."
  • "I recall hearing the word Oath Keeper and hearing the word Proud Boys closer to the planning of the January 6th rally when Mr. Giuliani would be around."
  • "I remember Mr. Ornato had talked to him about intelligence reports. I just remember Mr. Ornato coming in and saying that we had intel reports saying that there could potentially be violence on the 6th."
  • "I recall Tony and I having a conversation with Mark probably around 10 a.m., 10:15 a.m. where I remember Tony mentioning knives, guns in the form of pistols and rifles, bear spray, body armor, spears, and flagpoles. Spears were one item, flagpoles were one item. But then Tony had related to me something to the effect of and these effing people are fastening spears onto the ends of flagpoles."
  • "I was in the vicinity of a conversation where I overheard the President say something to the effect of, you know, I - - I don't effing care that they have weapons. They're not here to hurt me. Take that effing mags away. Let my people in. They can march to the Capitol from here. Let the people in. Take the effing mags away."
  • "that's what Tony had been trying to relay to him that morning. You know, it's not the issues that we encounter on the campaign. We have enough space, Sir. They don't want to come in right now. They — they have weapons that they don't want confiscated by the Secret Service. And they're fine on the mall. They can see you on the mall and they're — they want to march straight to the Capitol from the mall."
  • "Mr. Cipollone said something to the effect of please make sure we don't go up to the Capitol, Cassidy. Keep in touch with me. We're going to get charged with every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen."
  • "Having a private conversation with Pat late in the afternoon of the 3rd or 4th that Pat was concerned it would look like we were obstructing justice or obstructing the Electoral College count. And I apologize for probably not being so very clear with my legal terms here, but that it would look like we were obstructing what was happening on Capitol Hill. And he was also worried that it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot to erupt on the Capitol — at the Capitol."
  • "Mr. Meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with Secret Service on a movement from the White House to the Willard Hotel so he could attend the meeting or meetings with Mr. Giuliani and his associates in the war room."
  • "I remember Pat saying to him something to the effect of, the rioters have gotten to the Capitol, Mark. We need to go down and see the President now. And Mark looked up at him and said, he doesn't want to do anything, Pat."
  • "I remember Pat saying something to the effect of, Mark, we need to do something more. They're literally calling for the vice president to be f'ing hung. And Mark had responded something to the effect of, you heard him, Pat. He thinks Mike deserves it."
  • "As a staffer that worked to always represent the administration to the best of my ability and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, I remember feeling frustrated and disappointed, and really it felt personal. I — I was really sad. As an American, I was disgusted. It was unpatriotic."

Lots more for your reading pleasure. Have fun!
Click to expand...
"Something to the effect of ..." Over and over.

Very clever way of keeping her out of the crosshairs of perjury.

She didn't provide anything substantive.
 
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davidallen said:
About that. You need to upgrade your sources or be more obvious when you are trollling!

Do you think Cipillone will go on the record? He did meet with the committee, but is he prepared to go under oath? How about Meadows, you think he will stop fighting that subpeona?
Click to expand...

Got your nose.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Yes, they should ALL be called before the committee and testify.
Click to expand...
Ponca Dan said:
I commend anyone who stands by his commitment to his oath.
Click to expand...
I fully agree with you on this.

But this then begs the following questions . . . why aren't you making posts supporting this position? Why aren't you starting threads linking to articles that call on those around Trump to testify under oath and the implications related to their refusal to testify under oath? Why aren't you challenging the Trump cult posters on this thread and board who are attacking/degrading those who testify while defending/celebrating those who don't testify?

Why are your responses only directed at liberals and not the Trump cult on this matter?
 
Ponca Dan said:
I personally don’t see the relevance of what happened in the vehicle to the riot. But it is clear those who hate Trump with a white-hot passion think it’s a game changer.
Click to expand...
What happened in the vehicle is relevant to Trump's state of mind and intent.

With that said, I personally don't think it alone is much of a game changer. While I believe it is definitely relevant and cringeworthy, I believe there are other aspects of Hutchinson's testimony that are much more troublesome and problamatic for Trump. Indeed, her testimony as a whole was rather damaging for Trump.
 
my_2cents said:
I fully agree with you on this.

But this then begs the following questions . . . why aren't you making posts supporting this position? Why aren't you starting threads linking to articles that call on those around Trump to testify under oath and the implications related to their refusal to testify under oath? Why aren't you challenging the Trump cult posters on this thread and board who are attacking/degrading those who testify while defending/celebrating those who don't testify?

Why are your responses only directed at liberals and not the Trump cult on this matter?
Click to expand...
I’m sure it seems to you I’m picking sides against you, but that is not the case. I never cared all that much for DJT as president. I thought he was about average, did some things I thought were pretty good, did others (trade sanctions in particular) I thought were fiendishly stupid. But I’ve never had the hatred for the man that you and your fellow Democrats have. I thought your Russia, Russia, Russia tactic was horrible and dangerous to the health of the republic. But I come on here to state my opinion of things regardless of which “side” I seem to be on. It is my opinion that the unwavering obsession with DJT is a sign of serious mental illness with the Democrats. I don’t necessarily mean to sound defensive of Trump, but I do necessarily mean to try my hardest to help restore sanity in you and your party. How’s it working?
 
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Ponca Dan said:
I thought your Russia, Russia, Russia tactic was horrible and dangerous to the health of the republic.
Click to expand...
Do you think January 6 and what we have learned so far about Trump's role in what occurred that day was horrible and dangerous to the health of the republic?

Ponca Dan said:
But I come on here to state my opinion of things regardless of which “side” I seem to be on. It is my opinion that the unwavering obsession with DJT is a sign of serious mental illness with the Democrats.
Click to expand...
I'm not talking about some unwavering obsession with Trump that you think the left has. I'm talking about these Committee hearings and January 6.

You stated above that you believe "yes, they should ALL be called before the committee and testify." You stated also that you "commend anyone who stands by his commitment." So if this is what you believe, why aren't you challenging the Trump cult posters on this board who literally are disagreeing with what you claim to support? Why do you challenge liberal posters (who agree with you on these points) but refuse to challenge the Trump cult?

These are simple questions that you have no response to. It seems you are programmed to immediately argue with a liberal, even if the liberal agrees with you! Unless, of course, that liberal embraces a right-wing view.

Where is your willingness to challenge the Trump cult on this board regarding these Committee hearings? Let's see it Dan.

Ponca Dan said:
but I do necessarily mean to try my hardest to help restore sanity in you and your party.
Click to expand...
Why do we need the sanity restored?

Again, look at your own comments on this thread regarding who should testify and the honor of those who do testify. Are those comments not sane?

Ponca Dan said:
How’s it working?
Click to expand...
Is Trump still President? Is Trump's support among Republicans for the '24 nomination increasing or decreasing?

The truth is working rather well as it relates to Trump.
 
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my_2cents said:
Do you think January 6 and what we have learned so far about Trump's role in what occurred that day was horrible and dangerous to the health of the republic?


I'm not talking about some unwavering obsession with Trump that you think the left has. I'm talking about these Committee hearings and January 6.

You stated above that you believe "yes, they should ALL be called before the committee and testify." You stated also that you "commend anyone who stands by his commitment." So if this is what you believe, why aren't you challenging the Trump cult posters on this board who literally are disagreeing with what you claim to support? Why do you challenge liberal posters (who agree with you on these points) but refuse to challenge the Trump cult?

These are simple questions that you have no response to. It seems you are programmed to immediately argue with a liberal, even if the liberal agrees with you! Unless, of course, that liberal embraces a right-wing view.

Where is your willingness to challenge the Trump cult on this board regarding these Committee hearings? Let's see it Dan.


Why do we need the sanity restored?

Again, look at your own comments on this thread regarding who should testify and the honor of those who do testify. Are those comments not sane?


Is Trump still President? Is Trump's support among Republicans for the '24 nomination increasing or decreasing?

The truth is working rather well as it relates to Trump.
Click to expand...
Let me repeat: I don’t care one way or the other that Trump was president or will ever be president again. Actually I think it would be best for the country if he wouldn’t run again, he’s the most polarizing political figure in my lifetime. And that includes Hillary, Tricky Dick and LBJ. The country would be better off without him. (That being said I would still prefer him over Biden or Harris.)

As regards my lack of response to your questions I’ll say again I think your obsession with the man is seriously mentally ill. I have never regarded Jan 6 as an insurrection, the attempt to call it one is preposterous. The attempt to tie Trump as responsible for the riot is as shallow as it could be. The hearings are nothing more than a Star Chamber prosecutorial that should embarrass anyone that believes in justice. In that light I find your questions to be irrelevant and not worth answering.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Let me repeat: I don’t care one way or the other that Trump was president or will ever be president again. Actually I think it would be best for the country if he wouldn’t run again, he’s the most polarizing political figure in my lifetime. And that includes Hillary, Tricky Dick and LBJ. The country would be better off without him. (That being said I would still prefer him over Biden or Harris.)
Click to expand...
Ok, but this has nothing to do with the January 6 hearings and the statements you have now made on this thread regarding who should testify and the honor of those who do challenge Trump and testify.

Stop flailing around and try for once to remain on topic.

Ponca Dan said:
I have never regarded Jan 6 as an insurrection, the attempt to call it one is preposterous. The attempt to tie Trump as responsible for the riot is as shallow as it could be. The hearings are nothing more than a Star Chamber prosecutorial that should embarrass anyone that believes in justice. In that light I find your questions to be irrelevant and not worth answering.
Click to expand...
Thank you! Now we are finally starting to get your true opinion on January 6 and the hearings investigating it.

You celebrated what occurred on January 6, did you not? We both know the answer to this.

Therefore, you see no reason to really investigate what occurred on January 6. And whatever role Trump played in it, you could care less because you support what occured on January 6. Thus, in reality, you support whatever actions Trump took to encourage, enable, and facilitate what occurred. The Committee is in the wrong for wanting to investigate it. How dare they!

You also don't really want Trump tied to it, because in reality, you need Trump available to defeat Biden in '24 . . . or Clinton . . . or any other Democrat (just in case) as you stated. Therefore, you attack the Committee. You challenge liberal posters on this board who support the Committee while refusing outright to challenge the Trump cult.

Just stop playing your games. Every liberal on this board has you pegged.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
You should explain the error of his thinking.
Click to expand...
Those she was referencing at certain points should testify under oath and not refuse to (something you claimed to agree with) Also, one should understand how hearsay relates to a party-opponent.

See how simple that was?
 
davidallen said:
You should triple down on that.
Click to expand...
She did.

The people she cited either denied her allegations publicly, or weren't even close to the vicinity where she said certain events and/or conversations took place.

It was a desperate Hail Mary from a committee that is made up of characters that have lied and with held things from the public in the past.

Surely you have to be exhausted from all of this flailing and swinging and missing that's happened over the years.

I'm not sure what the former President did to enrage them so. (OK, maybe it started when he made fun of Pelosi for having false teeth -- very un-Presidential.)
 
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AC2020 said:
She did.

The people she cited either denied her allegations publicly, or weren't even close to the vicinity where she said certain events and/or conversations took place.

It was a desperate Hail Mary from a committee that is made up of characters that have lied and with held things from the public in the past.

Surely you have to be exhausted from all of this flailing and swinging and missing that's happened over the years.

I'm not sure what the former President did to enrage them so. (OK, maybe it started when he made fun of Pelosi for having false teeth -- very un-Presidential.)
Click to expand...
You can't expect a mouth breathing leftist sycophant like DodgeAllen to employ any critical thinking. He's the epitome of "unaware and compliant." You're going to need to lower your expectations to Brandon level shit.
 
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