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Neato story about drones and Ukraine

osu_orangestreak

Heisman Candidate
Feb 15, 2002
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Weekend hobbyist using personal drones to find hidden tanks and video the war crimes. The has station event is pretty disturbing. Story starts about 1:25 in.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports.
 
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Weekend hobbyist using personal drones to find hidden tanks and video the war crimes. The has station event is pretty disturbing. Story starts about 1:25 in.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports.
I don’t know if the stories of Russian execution of Ukrainian civilians and dumping their bodies in the streets are true or are propaganda. But if this report is accurate that civilians have been armed to join the battle it should come as no surprise that the Russian military would respond in kind.
 
You didn't even watch it. A man had his hands up and they killed him and his wife.
Yes, I watched it and it was a perfect example of the horror of war. The man dressed in battle fatigues while showing the reporter around claiming to be a civilian using drones to target Russian tanks kinda makes my point. When civilians interject themselves into the battle, and the opposing army cannot know for sure which civilian is innocent and which is hostile we should assume the opposing army will put its own survival as top priority. That’s the only point I’m making. I do not condone the slaughter of fellow human beings under any circumstances.
 
Weekend hobbyist using personal drones to find hidden tanks and video the war crimes. The has station event is pretty disturbing. Story starts about 1:25 in.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen reports.
Couple things. If civilians are becoming part of the fight then when they get killed they are no longer civilians but combatants. For the purposes of determining war crimes that is a distinction that will be heard. Next our own troops did the same thing that was shown shooting cars that got to close. This is because again civilians became combatants and used car bombs to blow up our troops. How do you make the distinction once it happens?

You didn't even watch it. A man had his hands up and they killed him and his wife.
No...the man with his hands up was killed and the couple in the car was allowed to leave. Something definitely wrong there.
 
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One of those they let leave was a 6 year old.

They are a drone division of the army not supposed to be civilians.

The may point was how a bunch of youtubers with their toys are acting as a force multiplier for the military.
 
I don’t know if the stories of Russian execution of Ukrainian civilians and dumping their bodies in the streets are true or are propaganda. But if this report is accurate that civilians have been armed to join the battle it should come as no surprise that the Russian military would respond in kind.

Lots of info out there about the rapping, torture and killing on non-combatants, if you want to look. Be different if this is the first time it has happened via russia or russian connected troops, but cook in the end of WWII, Chechnya and Syria among other places and it shouldn't be that hard to believe.

I bought a DJI 2S drone last year and it is so dam cool to fly around, that said not sure I would try to run around and find hidden tanks or emplacements. Would rather be kitted out with a weapon and gear to fight the fight face to face, not run around behind lines and run the chance of being summarily shot.

Remember the russians claimed for years the germans killed the 20K+ polish intellects and military officers in the Katyn forest, only to later have the Red Cross verify it was the russians/NKVD that did the deed. Terrorizing the civilian population is part and parcel of their gig.
 

Lots of info out there about the rapping, torture and killing on non-combatants, if you want to look. Be different if this is the first time it has happened via russia or russian connected troops, but cook in the end of WWII, Chechnya and Syria among other places and it shouldn't be that hard to believe.

I bought a DJI 2S drone last year and it is so dam cool to fly around, that said not sure I would try to run around and find hidden tanks or emplacements. Would rather be kitted out with a weapon and gear to fight the fight face to face, not run around behind lines and run the chance of being summarily shot.

Remember the russians claimed for years the germans killed the 20K+ polish intellects and military officers in the Katyn forest, only to later have the Red Cross verify it was the russians/NKVD that did the deed. Terrorizing the civilian population is part and parcel of their gig.
This is definitely the case. I would have high suspicions of Russians committing "war crimes" but I want actual war crimes. If you take Russia to task and can't prove it, then you have cheapened something that doesn't and shouldn't be cheapened. It must be correct. Case in point, the way racism has been used has cheapened the claim. War crimes cannot have that happen to it, too many lives would be on the line. If the Russians did it, prove it or stop claiming it until you can.
 
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This is definitely the case. I would have high suspicions of Russians committing "war crimes" but I want actual war crimes. If you take Russia to task and can't prove it, then you have cheapened something that doesn't and shouldn't be cheapened. It must be correct. Case in point, the way racism has been used has cheapened the claim. War crimes cannot have that happen to it, too many lives would be on the line. If the Russians did it, prove it or stop claiming it until you can.

face value it seems hard to not believe they have done this.....but agree, need proof, more proof and even more proof. I'm not sure the western world wants to have to call them to task if it is proven though. This just edges the Ukrainian support closer and closer to more aid and the ubiquitous fear that putin will go nuts and start nuking people.

Be interesting to see if Finland and Sweden apply for and are accepted into NATO soon also, as polls in those countries seem to support this currently. Not sure there wouldn't be a better time either.
 
face value it seems hard to not believe they have done this.....but agree, need proof, more proof and even more proof. I'm not sure the western world wants to have to call them to task if it is proven though. This just edges the Ukrainian support closer and closer to more aid and the ubiquitous fear that putin will go nuts and start nuking people.

Be interesting to see if Finland and Sweden apply for and are accepted into NATO soon also, as polls in those countries seem to support this currently. Not sure there wouldn't be a better time either.
The other problem I can see with the claims is that it will make Putin less inclined to give up. There is nothing to lose if Russians believe they will not get a fair shake. It will ensure they are all in.
 
face value it seems hard to not believe they have done this.....but agree, need proof, more proof and even more proof. I'm not sure the western world wants to have to call them to task if it is proven though. This just edges the Ukrainian support closer and closer to more aid and the ubiquitous fear that putin will go nuts and start nuking people.

Be interesting to see if Finland and Sweden apply for and are accepted into NATO soon also, as polls in those countries seem to support this currently. Not sure there wouldn't be a better time either.
For what reason at this time would Finland and Sweden deire to join NATO? What would they see as the "upside" and what would be the "downside?"
 
You didn't even watch it. A man had his hands up and they killed him and his wife.
Safe money is it's the Nazi Azovs- sources have said for years they kill their own- and don't even try speaking Russian in public there.

Before our CIA /Soros overthrew the last regime in 12 or 14 - countries got along great and azovs were not created or
At Least rampant-
Kinda like there were no isis caliphate till obama/Soros

Ukraine CCP and the US/NATO are the bad actors here- 100 percent.
 
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I believe shooting surrendering combatants happen in every war. If that is your standard, then how many Americans have been convicted of this?
How many have been caught red-handed? zer0 did prosecute several for actions that may or may not have been justified. The accused claimed self defense and the combatants were terrorist fighting out of uniform. This removes their Geneva status.

Now I used combatant here because quasi-military civies in many cases are using armbands as a uniform.

But that was not my point.

Santa Ana was lucky I was not the General in charge of the Army of Texas or he would have been executed for his crimes at the Alamo. He was allowed to return to Mexico minus an arm.
 
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I don't intend this to be a reply to anyone in particular. This thread drew out a thought I've had, and this seems like a place it might be discussed.

It's interesting how our assumptions about enemy combatants are made. Most of our expectations are drawn from movies we've watched of Nazi SS troops that routinely butchered jews under their control, people who were so evil they carried a stench on their bodies. We have been trained/manipulated to assume the enemy is subhuman, virtually evil in composure, and deserving of any violent retribution that can be delivered. How else could governments convince enough young men to murder fellow humans they have never met? That's how we see our enemy and that's how they see us.

I think most people watch the cold blooded murder of the man with his hands held up and his wife sitting in the car and picture a Russian soldier probably 30-40 years old that has so little soul he murdered them for the sport of it all. When in reality it probably was some 20 year old kid from a Russian town equivalent to Ponca City who a year and a half ago was a pimply faced teenager whose primary goal in life was to get between the legs of as many girls as would let him in. Now he's part of an invasion into a country he has never seen before, surrounded by hostility everywhere he looks, miserably homesick, unsure if he'll go home alive or in one piece, has witnessed friends get blown into unrecognizable mush, determined not to let it happen to him. Skittish as hell, quick to react to the slightest thing that might bring harm upon himself and his comrades. So he overreacts and kills a couple of parents of a six year old, and he'll have to live with that fact for the rest of his existence. It's one thing to know you've killed a stranger in the heat of battle, amongst the noise and dust and confusion, and knowing the guy you killed was trying to kill you. It's quite another to murder someone you find out later is innocent. The picture I have in my head of the Russian soldier(s) who committed that monstrosity is of young men who are utterly sick of what they did. The picture other people have of those soldiers is of unrepentant murderers who don't give a flip for what they did. I guess we'll never know which picture is the correct one.
 
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I don't itend this to be a reply to anyone in particular. This thread drew out a thought I've had, and this seems like a place it might be discussed.

It's interesting how our assumptions about enemy combatants are made. Most of our expectations are drawn from movies we've watched of Nazi SS troops that routinely butchered jews under their control, people who were so evil they carried a stench on their bodies. We have been trained/manipulated to assume the enemy is subhuman, virtually evil in composure, and deserving of any violent retribution that can be delivered. How else could governments convince enough young men to murder fellow humans they have never met? That's how we see our enemy and that's how they see us.

I think most people watch the cold blooded murder of the man with his hands held up and his wife sitting in the car and picture a Russian soldier probably 30-40 years old that has so little soul he murdered them for the sport of it all. When in reality it probably was some 20 year old kid from a Russian town equivalent to Ponca City who a year and a half ago was a pimply faced teenager whose primary goal in life was to get between the legs of as many girls as would let him in. Now he's part of an invasion into a country he has never seen before, surrounded by hostility everywhere he looks, miserably homesick, unsure if he'll go home alive or in one piece, has witnessed friends get blown into unrecognizable mush, determined not to let it happen to him. Skittish as hell, quick to react to the slightest thing that might bring harm upon himself and his comrades. So he overreacts and kills a couple of parents of a six year old, and he'll have to live with that fact for the rest of his existence. It's one thing to know you've killed a stranger in the heat of battle, amongst the noise and dust and confusion, and knowing the guy you killed was trying to kill you. It's quite another to murder someone you find out later is innocent. The picture I have in my head of the Russian soldier(s) who committed that monstrosity is of young men who are utterly sick of what they did. The picture other people have of those soldiers is of unrepentant murderers who don't give a flip for what they did. I guess we'll never know which picture is the correct one.
I will agree somewhat with that.

Russia does not have a professional army like we do. Every April they draft 100-180 thousand 18 year olds. This is what most of their army is made of. From intercepted phone calls from the Russians to their families we have found out how scared and confused they are about even being there.

There also bodies that have been found tied up and then shot. That is the work of the other ones you talk about. His older mercenaries who has committed these war crimes all over the world.
 
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I will agree somewhat with that.

Russia does not have a professional army like we do. Every April they draft 100-180 thousand 18 year olds. This is what most of their army is made of. From intercepted phone calls from the Russians to their families we have found out how scared and confused they are about even being there.

There also bodies that have been found tied up and then shot. That is the work of the other ones you talk about. His older mercenaries who has committed these war crimes all over the world.
Don't believe everything you hear- if it's Fox and CNN pushing war - it's a 99.97 percent chance of being fake news. Man that number sounds familiar....
 
For what reason at this time would Finland and Sweden deire to join NATO? What would they see as the "upside" and what would be the "downside?"
Ukraine didn't join NATO and look at whats happening to them.........that's all the upside I would need to see.

I actually don't see a downside if that is what their citizens want.
 
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I don’t know if the stories of Russian execution of Ukrainian civilians and dumping their bodies in the streets are true or are propaganda. But if this report is accurate that civilians have been armed to join the battle it should come as no surprise that the Russian military would respond in kind.
Any surprised at Danny boys take?
 
How many have been caught red-handed? zer0 did prosecute several for actions that may or may not have been justified. The accused claimed self defense and the combatants were terrorist fighting out of uniform. This removes their Geneva status.

Now I used combatant here because quasi-military civies in many cases are using armbands as a uniform.

But that was not my point.

Santa Ana was lucky I was not the General in charge of the Army of Texas or he would have been executed for his crimes at the Alamo. He was allowed to return to Mexico minus an arm.
Not sure armbands will replace uniforms as means to distinguish combatants. Medics wear armbands, and yet they are killed regardless. The Geneva conventions say a lot of things, but how many armies abide by them and who do they apply to. Does breaking a rule of the Geneva conventions in and of itself constitute a war crime? Answer no. War crime convictions have held up best when dealing with crimes against humanity. The holocaust being the primary example everyone will point to. In the Nuremberg trials defendants were charged with waging aggressive war, which has issues as both sides waged aggressive war. Taking this meaning then who wins determines who has committed the war crimes. It is important to point out that Crimes against humanity stood up best, in which case the prosecution was able to prove the indiscriminate killing of prisoners of war or selective civilian populations, or in other words the actual holocaust. Since then how many wars have been waged in which war crimes where charged and upheld after the war was over? I can think of one, but that is it. The one case I can think of was a crime against humanity and Serbians were the criminals.

Now these are very serious matters. The mass murder of millions is nothing to make fun of, or make light of. Until evidence is produced that back up the claims of systematic population culling, I would say the charges of war crimes should most likely be put aside. If the Russians committed crimes then they will be prosecuted for crimes against humanity, but drawing the line can be difficult.

AS far as Santa Ana, I would say you take an extreme position and you would have risked martyring him, and enraging Mexico even further., prolonging the war, and prolonging and increasing the death. Which means at that point you make yourself into a war criminal.
 
As far as Santa Ana, I would say you take an extreme position and you would have risked martyring him, and enraging Mexico even further., prolonging the war, and prolonging and increasing the death. Which means at that point you make yourself into a war criminal.
He murdered surrendering soldiers. He was Mexico and the head of the snake as well as of state. Execution would occur after a trial. He was guilty as sin and conviction would be easy.

My avatar should have had a nice job in Houston's government and a happy retirement.
 
He murdered surrendering soldiers. He was Mexico and the head of the snake as well as of state. Execution would occur after a trial. He was guilty as sin and conviction would be easy.

My avatar should have had a nice job in Houston's government and a happy retirement.
He also signed the treaty making Texas a country, giving the Texans credibility. Not sure a show trial with an execution at the end would help your case. Was he guilty of atrocities? Sure, but he also kept his men from worse. Kill him, and the soldiers would have been enraged, with no strong-willed officer to stop them those atrocities mount.

Davy Crocket already had a good political career, and I have always questioned why make your stand at the Alamo. They had to know they were extremely outnumbered, and even if the reinforcements they expected showed up, they would still be grossly outnumbered. The cannon may have helped but a withdrawal to meet up with Houston would have made more sense. The alamo was a needless battle, for nothing. Texas has built it a myth and a legend, but it was an epic stand by Texians, that gained nothing. Crocket died a hero; I would have much rather he lived and made Santa Ana's troops die for theirs. As is he died with something like 16 to 20 Mexican soldiers dead around him, and if he would have joined up with Houston his legend could have been even bigger.
 
Guys believing all the anti Russia BS is comical- and sad. Amazing there's tens of
Millions of smartphones in that country and no raw footage- most footage is fake or staged by fake A$$ media.

. The Fox Normies are more gullible than the CNN Normies - and I don't think it's close 🤪
 
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