ADVERTISEMENT

@my_2cents

Ponca Dan

MegaPoke is insane
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
26,809
25,635
113
You no longer comment on this board (I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I miss sparring with you) but on the off chance you still check in from time to time I beg of you to read this article and express your reaction to what is said. You called yourself a progressive and yet you defended every action the Democrat Party undertook to dismantle the progressive wing, including your unrestrained defense of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and the establishment cabal that were their puppet masters from behind the scenes. Now that the party has imploded and the fingers are pointing and tongues are wagging over who is to blame for its collapse this article presents the progressive point of view. I’m about as far from being a progressive as one can get but I find this analysis to be compelling. I’m curious if you agree and if you want to express any regrets about your defense of the establishment of the party.


 
After 2 Cents years of arrogantly defending everything Democrat he's not going to show his face on this board again. Progressives or should I say Socialists that are really communist authoritarians, provided they are in charge, avoid accountability at all cost.
 
You no longer comment on this board (I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I miss sparring with you) but on the off chance you still check in from time to time I beg of you to read this article and express your reaction to what is said. You called yourself a progressive and yet you defended every action the Democrat Party undertook to dismantle the progressive wing, including your unrestrained defense of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris and the establishment cabal that were their puppet masters from behind the scenes. Now that the party has imploded and the fingers are pointing and tongues are wagging over who is to blame for its collapse this article presents the progressive point of view. I’m about as far from being a progressive as one can get but I find this analysis to be compelling. I’m curious if you agree and if you want to express any regrets about your defense of the establishment of the party.



He gone, USAID money was cut off for paid DNC Bots.
 
You no longer comment on this board (I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I miss sparring with you) but on the off chance you still check in from time to time I beg of you to read this article and express your reaction to what is said.
Hello Dan. Hope you and yours are doing well. Yeah, I haven't commented or even really visited this board in a while. Just got tired of going around in circles with the Trump polemicists that had come to dominate this board. Didn't see the point in wasting any more time here. But, perhaps foolishly on my part lol, I'll reengage some. I'll start by giving you my thoughts on what the article is addressing. Here they are:

(1) First, I don't know if I agree "yet" with the narrative that many people "actively conspired to hide the fact that Biden wasn’t actually capable of executing his responsibilities as president." Perhaps this was the case, but perhaps it wasn't also. Or maybe the actual truth lies somewhere in between (which I tend to think at this point is most likely the case).

I'm more than willing though to consider the actual evidence concerning this, but not the talking points (from all sides). Nor quotes from "anonymous" sources in books. Nor the political backbiting.

(2) As for the inner-party debate between progressives and the establishment (both Obama's faction and Clinton's third way faction), I'm firmly in line with the progressives, with a few caveats.

(3) As you know, I didn't support Biden in the 2020 primaries. I supported Sanders and Harris. The progressive Harris. I backed Biden in the general, of course, to defeat Trump. Also, early on, I did not want Biden to seek reelection in 2024. I stated as much on this board numerous times. Biden, for me and other progressives (after he won the 2020 primary), was a means to an end. The defeat of Trump in 2020. I wish Biden had understood the role he needed to play. A one term transitional President. Unfortunately, he and/or those around him got drunk on power and greedy.

(4) I fully supported Harris being the nominee after Biden dropped out. I wish Biden had dropped out before the primaries, but he didn't. By the time he did withdraw, it was too late for a new set of primaries, etc. I blame Biden and his people for this, not Harris or other establishment Democrats. Indeed, it was the establishment Democrats who forced Biden out, finally.

(5) Harris greatly disappointed me with the type of campaign she ran. She chose to run, essentially, as a Clinton third way Democrat. That was never the Harris I had supported before. I (and other progressives) went along with it because there was no other option but we didn't understand it. Harris should have ran a strong progressive left-wing populist campaign.

(6) It is way past time for the Democratic Party to move away from third way politics and neoliberalism. In my opinion, 2024 prove this. The Democratic Party has got to once again embrace progressivism and left-wing populism. It has got to challenge Trump Republicans in the arena of populism.

(7) I know that last point may surprise you some given my past disagreements with populism. But my disagreements with populism are directed at the type of populism Trump uses, a fascist populism that actually protects those in power while scapegoating those with little to no power.

So in conclusion, yes, I agree with the article's hope that the Democratic establishment has learned their lesson. I hope, if we have a 2028 election, Democrats will nominate a progressive left-wing populist who will actually run a progressive left-wing populist campaign.

Do I think establishment Democrats have learned their lesson though? I don't know yet. So far, it doesn't look encouraging.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
Hello Dan. Hope you and yours are doing well. Yeah, I haven't commented or even really visited this board in a while. Just got tired of going around in circles with the Trump polemicists that had come to dominate this board. Didn't see the point in wasting any more time here. But, perhaps foolishly on my part lol, I'll reengage some. I'll start by giving you my thoughts on what the article is addressing. Here they are:

(1) First, I don't know if I agree "yet" with the narrative that many people "actively conspired to hide the fact that Biden wasn’t actually capable of executing his responsibilities as president." Perhaps this was the case, but perhaps it wasn't also. Or maybe the actual truth lies somewhere in between (which I tend to think at this point is most likely the case).

I'm more than willing though to consider the actual evidence concerning this, but not the talking points (from all sides). Nor quotes from "anonymous" sources in books. Nor the political backbiting.

(2) As for the inner-party debate between progressives and the establishment (both Obama's faction and Clinton's third way faction), I'm firmly in line with the progressives, with a few caveats.

(3) As you know, I didn't support Biden in the 2020 primaries. I supported Sanders and Harris. The progressive Harris. I backed Biden in the general, of course, to defeat Trump. Also, early on, I did not want Biden to seek reelection in 2024. I stated as much on this board numerous times. Biden, for me and other progressives (after he won the 2020 primary), was a means to an end. The defeat of Trump in 2020. I wish Biden had understood the role he needed to play. A one term transitional President. Unfortunately, he and/or those around him got drunk on power and greedy.

(4) I fully supported Harris being the nominee after Biden dropped out. I wish Biden had dropped out before the primaries, but he didn't. By the time he did withdraw, it was too late for a new set of primaries, etc. I blame Biden and his people for this, not Harris or other establishment Democrats. Indeed, it was the establishment Democrats who forced Biden out, finally.

(5) Harris greatly disappointed me with the type of campaign she ran. She chose to run, essentially, as a Clinton third way Democrat. That was never the Harris I had supported before. I (and other progressives) went along with it because there was no other option but we didn't understand it. Harris should have ran a strong progressive left-wing populist campaign.

(6) It is way past time for the Democratic Party to move away from third way politics and neoliberalism. In my opinion, 2024 prove this. The Democratic Party has got to once again embrace progressivism and left-wing populism. It has got to challenge Trump Republicans in the arena of populism.

(7) I know that last point may surprise you some given my past disagreements with populism. But my disagreements with populism are directed at the type of populism Trump uses, a fascist populism that actually protects those in power while scapegoating those with little to no power.

So in conclusion, yes, I agree with the article's hope that the Democratic establishment has learned their lesson. I hope, if we have a 2028 election, Democrats will nominate a progressive left-wing populist who will actually run a progressive left-wing populist campaign.

Do I think establishment Democrats have learned their lesson though? I don't know yet. So far, it doesn't look encouraging.
Hey there is one more on this board with some sense.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
Hello Dan. Hope you and yours are doing well. Yeah, I haven't commented or even really visited this board in a while. Just got tired of going around in circles with the Trump polemicists that had come to dominate this board. Didn't see the point in wasting any more time here. But, perhaps foolishly on my part lol, I'll reengage some. I'll start by giving you my thoughts on what the article is addressing. Here they are:

(1) First, I don't know if I agree "yet" with the narrative that many people "actively conspired to hide the fact that Biden wasn’t actually capable of executing his responsibilities as president." Perhaps this was the case, but perhaps it wasn't also. Or maybe the actual truth lies somewhere in between (which I tend to think at this point is most likely the case).

I'm more than willing though to consider the actual evidence concerning this, but not the talking points (from all sides). Nor quotes from "anonymous" sources in books. Nor the political backbiting.

(2) As for the inner-party debate between progressives and the establishment (both Obama's faction and Clinton's third way faction), I'm firmly in line with the progressives, with a few caveats.

(3) As you know, I didn't support Biden in the 2020 primaries. I supported Sanders and Harris. The progressive Harris. I backed Biden in the general, of course, to defeat Trump. Also, early on, I did not want Biden to seek reelection in 2024. I stated as much on this board numerous times. Biden, for me and other progressives (after he won the 2020 primary), was a means to an end. The defeat of Trump in 2020. I wish Biden had understood the role he needed to play. A one term transitional President. Unfortunately, he and/or those around him got drunk on power and greedy.

(4) I fully supported Harris being the nominee after Biden dropped out. I wish Biden had dropped out before the primaries, but he didn't. By the time he did withdraw, it was too late for a new set of primaries, etc. I blame Biden and his people for this, not Harris or other establishment Democrats. Indeed, it was the establishment Democrats who forced Biden out, finally.

(5) Harris greatly disappointed me with the type of campaign she ran. She chose to run, essentially, as a Clinton third way Democrat. That was never the Harris I had supported before. I (and other progressives) went along with it because there was no other option but we didn't understand it. Harris should have ran a strong progressive left-wing populist campaign.

(6) It is way past time for the Democratic Party to move away from third way politics and neoliberalism. In my opinion, 2024 prove this. The Democratic Party has got to once again embrace progressivism and left-wing populism. It has got to challenge Trump Republicans in the arena of populism.

(7) I know that last point may surprise you some given my past disagreements with populism. But my disagreements with populism are directed at the type of populism Trump uses, a fascist populism that actually protects those in power while scapegoating those with little to no power.

So in conclusion, yes, I agree with the article's hope that the Democratic establishment has learned their lesson. I hope, if we have a 2028 election, Democrats will nominate a progressive left-wing populist who will actually run a progressive left-wing populist campaign.

Do I think establishment Democrats have learned their lesson though? I don't know yet. So far, it doesn't look encouraging.
You are so full of shit, you supported all that shit and more. You have been knee deep in that Commie Dim Ass for years with not a peep about any of the Commie shit they have trotted out there. Nice try Commie.
 
Last edited:
you supported all that shit and more.
If you had actual read my post, you would have seen that I stated where I had supported Democrats and where I hadn't.

I don't disagree that I supported Biden in the 2020 general election that he won. I also supported Harris in '24. However, I didn't support Biden during the 2020 primaries, I did not want Biden to seek reelection in '24, and I believe Harris made a major mistake running as a third way Democrat in the '24 general.

You have been knee deep in that Commie Dim Ass for years with not a peep about any of the Commie shit they have trotted out there. Nice try Commie.
Why do you continue to use a word you don't even know how to define? I've asked you before to define what a communist is and you have yet to do so. Just because Trump and other Republican elites tell you all Democrats are communist doesn't make it true. Indeed, it is far from the truth and just more of the same from fear-mongers on the right.

7194

(A right-wing flyer distributed in Dallas, TX two days before the Democratic President visited and was assassinated.)

Some things, sadly, never change. The elites just keep using fear and hate to divide Americans.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
If you had actual read my post, you would have seen that I stated where I had supported Democrats and where I hadn't.

I don't disagree that I supported Biden in the 2020 general election that he won. I also supported Harris in '24. However, I didn't support Biden during the 2020 primaries, I did not want Biden to seek reelection in '24, and I believe Harris made a major mistake running as a third way Democrat in the '24 general.


Why do you continue to use a word you don't even know how to define? I've asked you before to define what a communist is and you have yet to do so. Just because Trump and other Republican elites tell you all Democrats are communist doesn't make it true. Indeed, it is far from the truth and just more of the same from fear-mongers on the right.

7194

(A right-wing flyer distributed in Dallas, TX two days before the Democratic President visited and was assassinated.)

Some things, sadly, never change. The elites just keep using fear and hate to divide Americans.
If you stay on this board for any length of time you will discover there are several MAGAs, one of whom is @OUSOONER67, for whom there are two political choices: you are either MAGA or you're a Commie.
 
If you stay on this board for any length of time you will discover there are several MAGAs, one of whom is @OUSOONER67, for whom there are two political choices: you are either MAGA or you're a Commie.
Yeah, he was the exact same way when I was posting here before. I had asked him numerous times before to define what a communist is and he never was able to. Typical.

Does he call you a "commie" now too? If he does, lol, that is hilarious!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
Yeah, he was the exact same way when I was posting here before. I had asked him numerous times before to define what a communist is and he never was able to. Typical.

Does he call you a "commie" now too? If he does, lol, that is hilarious!
Oh, yes! Several MAGAs on this board think I'm a Commie.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
Yeah, he was the exact same way when I was posting here before. I had asked him numerous times before to define what a communist is and he never was able to. Typical.

Does he call you a "commie" now too? If he does, lol, that is hilarious!
You supported Tampon Tim Walz. Know what he said recently?
 
Yes I do. But since I'm not a MAGA that makes me a Commie.
I wonder if he knows there are different types of communists and that pure utopian communists claim we have never actually seen a real communist system/government yet in the world? Yeah, probably not.

Being an anarcho-captalist, you of course have very little in common with communism. You do agree with some communists about achieving a stateless society, but that is about where your agreement ends. Your views on property, for example, is the complete opposite of what a true communist would embrace.
 
No, just naive.
From what I have recently seen (and generally seen in the past), Dan actually advocates for what you claim to believe in.

You claim to oppose the two party establishment system in this country, yet, you consistently defend the Republican ruling elite and Donald Trump. Dan, on the other hand, doesn't. He attacks the establishment system of both parties, and has for a while now.

So no, Dan isn't naive at all. He just isn't a Trump defender. He recognizes Trump for what he is. An oligarch. Part of the ruling class.
 
From what I have recently seen (and generally seen in the past), Dan actually advocates for what you claim to believe in.

You claim to oppose the two party establishment system in this country, yet, you consistently defend the Republican ruling elite and Donald Trump. Dan, on the other hand, doesn't. He attacks the establishment system of both parties, and has for a while now.

So no, Dan isn't naive at all. He just isn't a Trump defender. He recognizes Trump for what he is. An oligarch. Part of the ruling class.
I support the peaceful demise of the Democrat Party, Republicans offer the best avenue to accomplish that task. Once Democrats and their destructive policies are defeated it will be time to go after the Republican Party,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Medic007
I support the demise of theDemocrat Party
There's no longer anything "democratic" about the Democrat Party, but their devoted brainwashed voters still keep lining up at the trough to guzzle whatever regressive garbage they're told to. Sad to see.
 
There's no longer anything "democratic" about the Democrat Party, but their devoted brainwashed voters still keep lining up at the trough to guzzle whatever regressive garbage they're told to. Sad to see.
I'm glad you've finally opened your eyes to what most of us have seen for decades.
 
I support the peaceful demise of the Democrat Party, Republicans offer the best avenue to accomplish that task. Once Democrats and their destructive policies are defeated it will be time to go after the Republican Party,
So you now support a one party government rule in our country?

Your comments cast serious doubts on your claim to not like the establishment in both parties. Your comments point to you supporting an authoritarian one party government ran by a dictator. You sound just as MAGA as the rest of them.

With that said, I support the Democratic Party returning to its 20th century progressive, left-wing populist roots. I believe the Democratic Party needs to reject neo-liberalism once and for all, and also move away from the third way system. The Democratic Party needs to become the party of the people and not the ruling elite. I would also like to see the Republican Party move away from the ruling elites and oligarchs too.
 
There's no longer anything "democratic" about the Democrat Party
I disagree with this. There is a large segment of the Democratic Party that is still very much democratic. They also understand where the party has gone wrong and what needs to change.

The problem is, just as in the Republican Party, the oligarchs and ruling elite still maintain controlling power in many ways. This is what has to change.
 
So you now support a one party government rule in our country?

Your comments cast serious doubts on your claim to not like the establishment in both parties. Your comments point to you supporting an authoritarian one party government ran by a dictator. You sound just as MAGA as the rest of them.

With that said, I support the Democratic Party returning to its 20th century progressive, left-wing populist roots. I believe the Democratic Party needs to reject neo-liberalism once and for all, and also move away from the third way system. The Democratic Party needs to become the party of the people and not the ruling elite. I would also like to see the Republican Party move away from the ruling elites and oligarchs too.
I never said nor implied one party rule. What I said is a support the peaceful demise of the Democrat Party. Democrats have moved so far left there is no map that shows their position.
 
I never said nor implied one party rule. What I said is a support the peaceful demise of the Democrat Party.
If the demise of the Democratic Party happens, what is left? One party with all the power. One party rule.

Unless you want a new political party to immediately arise with power to challenge and oppose the Republican Party. And if this is what you want, this can be accomplished simply by reforming the Democratic Party. No need for the complete demise of the Democartic Party.

So do you support a powerful political party existing that challenges and opposes the Republican Party and Donald Trump?

Democrats have moved so far left there is no map that shows their position.
This isn't true at all. The Democratic Party hasn't moved "so far" to the left. For example, Harris didn't run a far-left campaign for President in 2024. She didn't run a progressive campaign,. She ran a centrist neoliberal third way Democratic campaign, in the mold of past Clinton presidential campaigns. That was a major mistake on her part. She ran as an establishment Democrat who refused to really shake the boat.

Look at how the Democratic Party establismnet and ruling elite worked to keep Bernie Sanders from being the nominee of the Democratic Party. Look at what they did in 2016. How they stopped him starting in South Carolina in 2020.

No, the Democrtatic Party hasn't moved so far left. The Democatic Party, like the Republican Party, is beholden to the ruling elites and oligarchs. That is the problem with the Democratic Party and that is what needs to change. The Democratic Party needs to embrace the Sanders vision and move away from neo-liberalism and the third way system.

Another Democratic leader who is making this argument, a long with Sanders, AOC, and other progressives, is Senator Chris Murphy. I'd like to see Murphy run for President in 2028, if we hopefully have a real presidential election in 2028.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67 and 22LR
I wonder if he knows there are different types of communists and that pure utopian communists claim we have never actually seen a real communist system/government yet in the world? Yeah, probably not.

Being an anarcho-captalist, you of course have very little in common with communism. You do agree with some communists about achieving a stateless society, but that is about where your agreement ends. Your views on property, for example, is the complete opposite of what a true communist would embrace.
Sure thing Commie.
 
If the demise of the Democratic Party happens, what is left? One party with all the power. One party rule.

Unless you want a new political party to immediately arise with power to challenge and oppose the Republican Party. And if this is what you want, this can be accomplished simply by reforming the Democratic Party. No need for the complete demise of the Democartic Party.

So do you support a powerful political party existing that challenges and opposes the Republican Party and Donald Trump?


This isn't true at all. The Democratic Party hasn't moved "so far" to the left. For example, Harris didn't run a far-left campaign for President in 2024. She didn't run a progressive campaign,. She ran a centrist neoliberal third way Democratic campaign, in the mold of past Clinton presidential campaigns. That was a major mistake on her part. She ran as an establishment Democrat who refused to really shake the boat.

Look at how the Democratic Party establismnet and ruling elite worked to keep Bernie Sanders from being the nominee of the Democratic Party. Look at what they did in 2016. How they stopped him starting in South Carolina in 2020.

No, the Democrtatic Party hasn't moved so far left. The Democatic Party, like the Republican Party, is beholden to the ruling elites and oligarchs. That is the problem with the Democratic Party and that is what needs to change. The Democratic Party needs to embrace the Sanders vision and move away from neo-liberalism and the third way system.

Another Democratic leader who is making this argument, a long with Sanders, AOC, and other progressives, is Senator Chris Murphy. I'd like to see Murphy run for President in 2028, if we hopefully have a real presidential election in 2028.
What @2012Bearcat and the rest of the MAGAs fail to understand … actually it’s probably better to say what they understand but refuse to acknowledge is MAGA is the same coercive state apparatus as the Democrats. It’s just dressed in a different suit of armor. But MAGA is *their* coercive state apparatus, and that is the only thing that matters to them. They either don’t see or don’t care that they are being manipulated. All that matters to them is their team leaders get to drive the car. They are perfectly happy to sit in the back seat and go along for the ride. Virtually everything Bearcat has written in this thread (and others) says what I just wrote in different words.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 2012Bearcat
I think it’s cool there is something we can all agree on and that’s that democrats should present themselves as more left than the mainstream democrats that are holding them back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Medic007
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT