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My theory on Russia.....

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I am not stating this as a fact, my original statement said if. But if you believe the Russians tried to rig the election like some do, and you assume that, and you are Putin, knowing Trumps desire to build the military, which way do you push the election?

I have no idea if they tried to rig it, but a bunch of people do think they tried to rig it.

I say if they tried, they tried to push it to Hillary. If you assume Russia tried to rig it, do you think they tried to push it Trump's way? If so, I would love to hear the logic because for me none exists, Hillary represented a weak military.

You are just saying wrong. Wrong to what? Russia did not get involved in our election? That they did try to influence it and wanted Trump in? If they did want him in, why?

That is the conversation I originally tried to frame before some dismissed me as stating my theory as a fact and just cheerleading for Trump.

This is about Russia and motivation, no one has answered this question seriously as to what Russia's motives were if they think they tried to rig it. My theory is the only reasonable one I can come up with, I am all ears for a better theory other than "wrong".

I'm REALLY REALLY good with my original statement, which you characterized as naive, on it's own and not engaging in what would be an ultimately contracted, meaningless discussion over nothing but speculation, supposition, and opinion.

I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in doing that.
 
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If there is going to be an investigation let Sessions and his DOJ investigate itself just like Holder did.

I understand there are now photos of McCaskill meeting with the Russian Ambassador.

Remember, as Tom Foley said, "It's the seriousness of the charge" that counts.

The Russians are all the dems have and that's why the keep coming back to it.

Let's not forget there is proof of one party rigging an election and it's not the GOP.

This is like trying to catch a fart and paint it green.
 
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If Sessions is a perjurer, then he gets the gas chamber. Such facilities should be easily available to nazis like Trump.

However, I want Hillary to be in there, too. I don't seek this as partisan revenge. I just want equal application of the law. I'm sick and tired of seeing politicians get away with felonies.
 
I'm REALLY REALLY good with my original statement, which you characterized as naive, on it's own and not engaging in what would be an ultimately contracted, meaningless discussion over nothing but speculation, supposition, and opinion.

I'm JUST NOT INTERESTED in doing that.

Your opinion was not missed at all, many that posted obviously felt it was worth discussion and provided the different opinions I was hoping to see.
 
Sure. Why not? If no one did anything wrong, the investigation won't find any wrongdoing.

But, the slush fund just became a story yesterday. The Russia issue has been ongoing for over a month and that investigation should get underway sooner, IMO.
It has already been investigated. DOJ allowed Banks to pay their fines to community housing initiatives instead of to the DOJ. What a slush fund.
 
Now I think they are just going to wait and laugh as all the Eastern European countries who fleed the Socialist state in the 80s for the promise of capitalism of the West get entrapped under the socialist policies of the EU. Those countries will eventually shift away from the EU (just like Brexit and the potential Frexit) and will beg Russia for trade and support. Much like the cold-war, capitalism will eventually win. The only difference is that now Russia is the capitalist country while the EU countries are becoming decidedly less so.
The socialist policies of the EU? Brexit and Frexit are over socialism? Russia is more capitalist than the EU? The EU is becoming less capitalist?
 
The socialist policies of the EU? Brexit and Frexit are over socialism? Russia is more capitalist than the EU? The EU is becoming less capitalist?

You can argue that Brexit and Frexit are about nationalism over globalism, but its clear that globalism and socialism walk hand-in-hand.

As for your other questions (per the heritage foundation):

Percentage of GDP accounted for by Government spending (the definition of socialism vs. capitalism):

US: 34%
Russia: 35.8%
UK: 44%
France: 57.1%
Germany: 44.2%
Italy: 50.9%
Spain: 44.2%
Ukraine: 45.4%
Poland: 42.1%

Would you like me to analyze any other countries? I think I hit the big ones. Dems seem to think Gorbachev is still in charge and they are the USSR. Now Russia faces significant corruption issues but yes, it is a capitalist country and at least by the measure above, is more so than most if not all of Europe.

Left out a final note: The ruling party of France is the SOCIALIST party.
 
You can argue that Brexit and Frexit are about nationalism over globalism, but its clear that globalism and socialism walk hand-in-hand.

As for your other questions (per the heritage foundation):

Percentage of GDP accounted for by Government spending (the definition of socialism vs. capitalism):

US: 34%
Russia: 35.8%
UK: 44%
France: 57.1%
Germany: 44.2%
Italy: 50.9%
Spain: 44.2%
Ukraine: 45.4%
Poland: 42.1%

Would you like me to analyze any other countries? I think I hit the big ones. Dems seem to think Gorbachev is still in charge and they are the USSR. Now Russia faces significant corruption issues but yes, it is a capitalist country and at least by the measure above, is more so than most if not all of Europe.

Left out a final note: The ruling party of France is the SOCIALIST party.
Clear that globalism and socialism walk hand-in-hand? Government spending as a percentage of GDP is the definition of socialism vs. capitalism? I guess Russia is capitalist if by capitalist you mean state capitalist or crony capitalist.

"By mid-2015, about 55 percent of the Russian economy was in state hands, with 20 million workers directly employed by the government, equal to 28 percent of the workforce (Aven 2015)."Aven, Petr. 2015. 1990s: Back to the USSR? Th e World Today 71, no. 3 (June). London: Chatham House​

Finally, you never established a link between the break up of the EU and increasing socialism. Which is probably because the EU is moving toward Thatcherite neoliberalism and austerity.
 
Clear that globalism and socialism walk hand-in-hand? Government spending as a percentage of GDP is the definition of socialism vs. capitalism? I guess Russia is capitalist if by capitalist you mean state capitalist or crony capitalist.

"By mid-2015, about 55 percent of the Russian economy was in state hands, with 20 million workers directly employed by the government, equal to 28 percent of the workforce (Aven 2015)."Aven, Petr. 2015. 1990s: Back to the USSR? Th e World Today 71, no. 3 (June). London: Chatham House​

Finally, you never established a link between the break up of the EU and increasing socialism. Which is probably because the EU is moving toward Thatcherite neoliberalism and austerity.

I'm curious as to how to take that reference note vs. what's on heritage.org. Not questioning its validity, just trying to understand how a government can control 55% of an economy yet only equal 35% of its GDP? I'm curious what measure was used to determine percentage of ownership.

As for the linkage, the EU is splitting at the seams primarily due to 2 issues. Immigration (particularly around refugees) is one. It takes socialist policies to accept and financially support via the government this volume of immigration. The government provides these individuals with food, shelter, medical care, education, etc... Their every need (almost) is taken care of. Without socialist policies (and their expansion) this isn't possible. The second issue is budgetary. The fiscally conservative nations of Europe are getting tired of paying for the government overspend of the more liberal/socialist southern countries (Greece and Italy primarily). These countries have over-financed and overspent in the name of socialist retirement, medical and welfare programs.

And of course, you wouldn't be called the economics professor if you didn't bring some archaic book term to the conversation: Thatcherite Neoliberalism. Sorry, thats a new one to me, and I don't give enough of a sh!t to bother to look it up. Sorry.

Justin
 
It has already been investigated. DOJ allowed Banks to pay their fines to community housing initiatives instead of to the DOJ. What a slush fund.

I'd like to see an honest independent audit that shows exactly where the funds were spent. I had a hard time believing that La Raza furnished affordable housing for people, so I checked their website. I would expect them to trumpet their many success stories if there were any. However, I couldn't find anything. Either they aren't proud of their efforts in this regard or there aren't any.
 
I'm curious as to how to take that reference note vs. what's on heritage.org. Not questioning its validity, just trying to understand how a government can control 55% of an economy yet only equal 35% of its GDP? I'm curious what measure was used to determine percentage of ownership.
State versus State owned enterprises. HUD versus Freddie Mac.


As for the linkage, the EU is splitting at the seams primarily due to 2 issues. Immigration (particularly around refugees) is one. It takes socialist policies to accept and financially support via the government this volume of immigration. The government provides these individuals with food, shelter, medical care, education, etc... Their every need (almost) is taken care of. Without socialist policies (and their expansion) this isn't possible.
Everything you wrote here is wrong. Brexit immigration concerns weren't refugees, it was Polish people moving to Britain for better jobs, which is allowed because of ... ? You guessed it free market capitalism. The country taking the most refugees, Germany, happens to be the strongest proponent of the EU. Believe it or not the social safety nets in the EU aren't whats causing the flood of refugees. It is the wars in their home countries.

The second issue is budgetary. The fiscally conservative nations of Europe are getting tired of paying for the government overspend of the more liberal/socialist southern countries (Greece and Italy primarily). These countries have over-financed and overspent in the name of socialist retirement, medical and welfare programs.
How exactly are the fiscally conservative nations paying for the government overspend of the southern countries? Also strange how it is the southern countries most in favor of leaving EU. Reality is Northern Europe (Mostly Germany but Holland, Belgium, and Denmark too) is forcing austerity on the south in the name of free markets and that is what is splitting the EU.

Really I am astounded by how confidently you spout your bullshit. You know I know better so why even try it?
 
I'd like to see an honest independent audit that shows exactly where the funds were spent. I had a hard time believing that La Raza furnished affordable housing for people, so I checked their website. I would expect them to trumpet their many success stories if there were any. However, I couldn't find anything. Either they aren't proud of their efforts in this regard or there aren't any.
http://www.nclr.org/issues/economy/asset-building/housing/
 
State versus State owned enterprises. HUD versus Freddie Mac.



Everything you wrote here is wrong. Brexit immigration concerns weren't refugees, it was Polish people moving to Britain for better jobs, which is allowed because of ... ? You guessed it free market capitalism. The country taking the most refugees, Germany, happens to be the strongest proponent of the EU. Believe it or not the social safety nets in the EU aren't whats causing the flood of refugees. It is the wars in their home countries.

How exactly are the fiscally conservative nations paying for the government overspend of the southern countries? Also strange how it is the southern countries most in favor of leaving EU. Reality is Northern Europe (Mostly Germany but Holland, Belgium, and Denmark too) is forcing austerity on the south in the name of free markets and that is what is splitting the EU.

Really I am astounded by how confidently you spout your bullshit. You know I know better so why even try it?

Funny, when I was in England, listening to their news broadcasts and their candidates, they weren't complaining about the Poles coming over and taking their jobs. They were pretty adamant in describing the African and Middle-Eastern immigrants (particularly those who explicitly chose to not assimilate into the British culture). But really, it was about having to surrender their national rights to an un-elected group of pro-socialist, globalist bureaucrats in Brussels.

Nobody forced austerity on any of the southern European countries. They could have declined the measures. Except that was the only method to get more of other peoples money to spend. To argue that Germany forced austerity is like complaining that the Doctor is the problem when he takes the morphine button away from the Opioid addict.

Justin
 
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Your opinion was not missed at all, many that posted obviously felt it was worth discussion and provided the different opinions I was hoping to see.

Duly noted.

Thanks for your input.

I am sincerely happy you got what you were looking for in starting this thread.

Many happy returns as well.
 
I was in Italy during the Brexit vote ... Read a lot about the polish workers moving in problem being the reason.
 
Nobody forced austerity on any of the southern European countries. They could have declined the measures. Except that was the only method to get more of other peoples money to spend. To argue that Germany forced austerity is like complaining that the Doctor is the problem when he takes the morphine button away from the Opioid addict.
Yes. Germany forced Austerity on the South. Faced with a financial crisis like the south, what are your options? You can allow your currency to depreciate, increasing imports and diminishing your debt load. Oops can't do that Northern countries prefer a strong Euro.
fredgraph.png

Faced with opposition from the North on monetary issues you can alway just leave the currency union, right? Not if Germany thwarts your every attempt to leave by interfering in your elections, and even when you vote 60%/40% to reject austerity they bully and threaten your leaders into accepting even worse terms.

Anyway now that you have conclusively proven that Brexit was due to brown immigration and that Southern Europe is a drug addict, what was your Russia point?
 
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