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multiple shooters?

Not sure what website it was on, but someone posted a screen cap on my friend's Facebook page. Looked like some kind of message board with the poster claiming to be someone inside the Las Vegas PD. This person claims the FBI knows the real motive behind the attack but they aren't sharing it because it implicates the FBI in illegal arms trafficking and distributing arms to ISIS within the United States. They claimed that Paddock was an undercover FBI agent who had been running guns. I always think these "conspiracy theories" are way out of left field, but thought it was interesting given there has been no public acknowledgment of a motive or trigger of any kind.
 
Some of the audio is extremely compelling to this theory and most people interviewed from the crowd were certain there were more than one shooter.

Caveat - with the distance, echoing surfaces and bullet impacts it must've been a very confusing situation and could play tricks on audio. But, it's very compelling when you hear it
 
It's a good thing he didn't account for the basics during his planning, help or no help. It would have been more gruesome if he had disabled the smoke detectors prior to beginning his assault.

It appears he also fired on jet fuel storage tanks that were nearby. If that was intentional, he didn't do his research on jet fuel.
 
It's a good thing he didn't account for the basics during his planning, help or no help. It would have been more gruesome if he had disabled the smoke detectors prior to beginning his assault.

It appears he also fired on jet fuel storage tanks that were nearby. If that was intentional, he didn't do his research on jet fuel.

I will agree with you on the smoke detectors if it turns out he had a bunch of ammo left, if he did not then it will be detail he missed that did not impact the death count, this is a question I have. If another person ever attempts this, this detail has been exposed, they may have been better off not disclosing how they figured out where he was shooting from.
 
Not sure what website it was on, but someone posted a screen cap on my friend's Facebook page. Looked like some kind of message board with the poster claiming to be someone inside the Las Vegas PD. This person claims the FBI knows the real motive behind the attack but they aren't sharing it because it implicates the FBI in illegal arms trafficking and distributing arms to ISIS within the United States. They claimed that Paddock was an undercover FBI agent who had been running guns. I always think these "conspiracy theories" are way out of left field, but thought it was interesting given there has been no public acknowledgment of a motive or trigger of any kind.
This?

 


Only problem you have is that legal gun dealers admitting he purchased guns from them, those are not gun runners. You would have to get civilians informed and get them to go along with the FBI lie and people talk, so right now for me I say no way. And, they have evidence he was looking at other attacks prior to this one. After the Murrah Bombing we had people saying the entire ATF evacuated the building before the bomb went off, conspiracy theorists love to do this stuff.
 
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Other issues I see with an FBI cover-up:

1. Assuming the LVPD and Sheriff's office was willing to go along with a cover-up (stretch IMO), why would they admit to having almost 50 guns that could be traced back to them? Why not cover-up the evidence that ties them to this?

2. Seems like IF ISIS had terrorists up there with them, the true prize in this would be to prove their involvement and expose the FBI. Their MO seems to me would be to have one terrorist video the other terrorist about to kill Paddock, explaining he was an undercover FBI agent, explaining what they FBI had been doing, thank the FBI for assisting them in this terrorist attack, and then shot Paddock in the head and released the video. Most of these terrorists die carrying our these things? If the intent was for them to live, would it not have been to expose the FBI which would have meant more to them then the actual body count? ISIS when they really want to be tied to something usually figures out a way to insure it is tied back to them.

3. ISIS - Are they so nice they send the girlfriend out of town before doing this? Seems to me they would have just killed her to. She might have been used to prove they were part of this if they planned it that way. Classic video be-heading for them.

If ISIS was involved it seems they would be doing everything they could to prove they were a part of this, even to the point of one of the terrorists remaining behind and taking his own life.

Seems to me those internal to LVPD and Sheriff's office are not getting informed of the investigation that have no need to know all the details, and they are putting together small facts and combining it with office rumors, and coming up with this stuff. You see this happen in the office culture all the time, problem here this involves mass murder.

I am certainly not naïve about the ability of any government agency to perform a cover-up, but this is not the Kennedy assassination. We have thousands of people as witnesses, Las Vegas perhaps has the most video cameras per square foot of any city on earth, we have tons of video, etc... A cover-up on something on this massive of a scale seems almost impossible to do IMO. Every single level of law enforcement including Hotel security would have to participate in a cover-up? They have video of Paddock from the moment he drove on the lot, checking in, probably on the elevator, and cameras in the halls. They should know if someone physically helped him at the hotel.
 
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The primary reason I believe there were multiple shooters is otherwise why break out 2 windows? From the one window, he had the vantage point across the entire field of fire. So unless someone else was also firing, why create a second point of discovery? I personally expect that there is no FBI conspiracy here, but that they are not talking about the second shooter on the hopes that he/she will think they are in the clear and screw up and get caught.
 
The primary reason I believe there were multiple shooters is otherwise why break out 2 windows? From the one window, he had the vantage point across the entire field of fire. So unless someone else was also firing, why create a second point of discovery? I personally expect that there is no FBI conspiracy here, but that they are not talking about the second shooter on the hopes that he/she will think they are in the clear and screw up and get caught.

You would think sound analysis would prove if 2 guns were being fired at the same time? Or did he do that to create more confusion?

If there is a second shooter they have to have them on video, you would think they have video of the halls?
 
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If some bullets don’t match all weapons left at the scene, then he’s onto something.

If shooter was able to leave with a rifle and not be seen, wow. But certainly you had pandemonium for cover.

With that concrete and ricocheting be interesting how many fully intact bullets they can recover, ones that hit people might be hard to test as well.
 
If shooter was able to leave with a rifle and not be seen, wow. But certainly you had pandemonium for cover.

With that concrete and ricocheting be interesting how many fully intact bullets they can recover, ones that hit people might be hard to test as well.
Yeah, just what-iffing a bit. But I agree with your thought in the other thread. One guy can pull this off.
 
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If shooter was able to leave with a rifle and not be seen, wow. But certainly you had pandemonium for cover.

With that concrete and ricocheting be interesting how many fully intact bullets they can recover, ones that hit people might be hard to test as well.
I assume most bullets found will not be intact even inside victims. However, I have a photo of an intact bullet removed from one of my father's cousins a couple of years ago which had been in him since being shot in Korea some 60 years before.
 
Yeah, just what-iffing a bit. But I agree with your thought in the other thread. One guy can pull this off.

I have not ruled out he had help, but I am certain he could have done it on his own. They have to have professional skepticism and not rush to judgment and follow all leads. If I did not have my own experiences with guns to reflect on, not certain what my conclusion might be in terms of one person pulling this off. Any human of normal intelligence can learn and plan what he did, all kinds of learning materials and assistance when it comes to learning about guns. Now, as Mega pointed out he was highly committed (why?), and he also had nerves of steel. But if he was ok with dying perhaps he had no reason to be nervous? He evidently rented out other hotels near concerts like this, now reporting he did this in Chicago as well. Did it take him time to build up the nerves to do this? Or where these practice runs? Or did things happen at these locations that spooked him off and he thought he would not be able to carry out what he wanted? This guy's back story is going to be strange for sure.
 
I assume most bullets found will not be intact even inside victims. However, I have a photo of an intact bullet removed from one of my father's cousins a couple of years ago which had been in him since being shot in Korea some 60 years before.

Wow, glad he survived.
 
This is the type of guy that if he had done the Columbine shootings he would have used chains to lock all of the doors to the HS, or at least a part of the HS and chained the doors behind him so no one could leave and he could take his time going room to room killing. I have been surprised that some of these people that choose buildings to shoot, do not secure as many doors as possible before doing so. Not to be gruesome, but when I see people carry out these crimes I see ways they could have perfected the crime. Part of what auditors (including internal) do is look at internal controls, and then put yourself in the position of being an embezzler, and try to figure out a way to embezzle based on those existing controls and come up with the "perfect" crime. One of the best parts of the job was brainstorming with other auditors and seeing if you could be the first to figure it out, how you might be caught (if at all or the likely hood), and if you were going to get caught, what was your lead time (when the bank recon got done, when the subsidiary postings were made and reconciled to the G/L weekly, etc...) before discovery? Can we put in another control to prevent the possible embezzlement we defined as possible, and is that control cost effective given the likelihood of said embezzlement and dollar exposure?

So, my auditor side works on just about every crime in terms of how do you perfect the crime, and what could you have done to prevent it? This one looks really hard to prevent IMO without giving up civil freedoms, and based on what we know, the big detail he missed was the smoke detector (thankfully).
 
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One last thought, my advice to the FBI would be to not be surprised at the level of planning he put in. Just like the example I gave on how auditors will try to dream up the perfect embezzlement given an existing set of internal controls, this man's goal was to pull off the perfect mass murder based on the security in place, I really believe that. When that smoke alarm went off I can guarantee he was royally *issed and probably shocked he overlooked that detail, even embarrassed for himself. Part of this for him was the challenge of pulling this off with perfection, I think he thought this thru enough to think he could do it, and if not he would kill himself. He was the embezzler that got caught, he forgot about the alarm in the safe.
 
If he wanted the perfect mass murder I assume this included a clean get away. Once they identified the shots were coming from the Mandalay, nobody was leaving that building without passing through police. Was he going to shoot his way out or walk through police lines as if he didn't do anything? The smell of gun powder residue on him would have been quite noticeable.
 
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This is the type of guy that if he had done the Columbine shootings he would have used chains to lock all of the doors to the HS, or at least a part of the HS and chained the doors behind him so no one could leave and he could take his time going room to room killing. I have been surprised that some of these people that choose buildings to shoot, do not secure as many doors as possible before doing so. Not to be gruesome, but when I see people carry out these crimes I see ways they could have perfected the crime. Part of what auditors (including internal) do is look at internal controls, and then put yourself in the position of being an embezzler, and try to figure out a way to embezzle based on those existing controls and come up with the "perfect" crime. One of the best parts of the job was brainstorming with other auditors and seeing if you could be the first to figure it out, how you might be caught (if at all or the likely hood), and if you were going to get caught, what was your lead time (when the bank recon got done, when the subsidiary postings were made and reconciled to the G/L weekly, etc...) before discovery? Can we put in another control to prevent the possible embezzlement we defined as possible, and is that control cost effective given the likelihood of said embezzlement and dollar exposure?

So, my auditor side works on just about every crime in terms of how do you perfect the crime, and what could you have done to prevent it? This one looks really hard to prevent IMO without giving up civil freedoms, and based on what we know, the big detail he missed was the smoke detector (thankfully).
I audit auditors so I really like these posts.
 
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If he wanted the perfect mass murder I assume this included a clean get away. Once they identified the shots were coming from the Mandalay, nobody was leaving that building without passing through police. Was he going to shoot his way out or walk through police lines as if he didn't do anything? The smell of gun powder residue on him would have been quite noticeable.
He should have rented another room and escaped to it.
 
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If he wanted the perfect mass murder I assume this included a clean get away. Once they identified the shots were coming from the Mandalay, nobody was leaving that building without passing through police. Was he going to shoot his way out or walk through police lines as if he didn't do anything? The smell of gun powder residue on him would have been quite noticeable.

He should have used a timer and shot for about 5 minutes, I think he gets away if he did that. You would have chaos everywhere and no cops. I wonder if it took him longer to shoot all those rounds then he thought, time got away from him, or he was really getting off on it and could not stop himself. If he was thinking he could get away he wore out his welcome.

Jumps on a plane and lives in the Philippines in the new house the girlfriend was to buy.
 
He should have used a timer and shot for about 5 minutes, I think he gets away if he did that. You would have chaos everywhere and no cops. I wonder if it took him longer to shoot all those rounds then he thought, time got away from him, or he was really getting off on it and could not stop himself. If he was thinking he could get away he wore out his welcome.

Jumps on a plane and lives in the Philippines in the new house the girlfriend was to buy.
You really think he makes it to the phillipines? He wasn't getting away with this. The room was in his name. There may or may not be more involved, but he would have been captured within 24 hours.
 
You really think he makes it to the phillipines? He wasn't getting away with this. The room was in his name. There may or may not be more involved, but he would have been captured within 24 hours.
If it was really him.
 
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The primary reason I believe there were multiple shooters is otherwise why break out 2 windows?

He broke out the second window to shoot at the jet fuel tanks at the airport. He hit them. No explosion. As Medic said, he didn't do his research on jet fuel.
 
The conspiracy theories, ITT, are humorous. Why do people make shit up and pass it off as truth? I guess they get some kind of thrill out of it.
 
What if the security guard was the second shooter and he killed the dude and then shot himself in the leg. Then he went to the hallway and waited on the cops to show up and said hey he shot me. Perfect cover.
 
Why do some people have to turn everything into a conspiracy? 9-11, Sandy Hook, and now this. The investigation isn't even close to being over yet, and already the conspiracy theorists are hard at work.
 
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I'm also quite sure conspiracy reporters such as ABC's Brian Ross immediately upon hearing of the shooting scampered off to google the shooters' name in hopes of finding him associated with Trumpsters, the Tea Party or the Klan.
 
I'm also quite sure conspiracy reporters such as ABC's Brian Ross immediately upon hearing of the shooting scampered off to google the shooters' name in hopes of finding him associated with Trumpsters, the Tea Party or the Klan.

You don’t think anyone was hoping to find that he was connected to Antifa or BLM? Business as usual.
 
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I'm also quite sure conspiracy reporters such as ABC's Brian Ross immediately upon hearing of the shooting scampered off to google the shooters' name in hopes of finding him associated with Trumpsters, the Tea Party or the Klan.

Perhaps so, which returns us to my original question . . . why do some people have to turn everything into a conspiracy?
 
Why do some people have to turn everything into a conspiracy? The JFK assassination, 9-11, Sandy Hook, and now this. The investigation isn't even close to being over yet, and already the conspiracy theorists are hard at work.

I understand the whole mentality behind the need for some to explain such events in the context of a conspiracy, and perhaps that is the only answer. It is just puzzling though why some immediately want to jump to a conspiracy when events like this occur.
Because conspiracies often occur. Look no further than the failed attempt by the DNC, media, and HRC’s staff to get HRC elected as POTUS.
 
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