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Meanwhile, in North Korea...

And you wonder why you don't hold a single branch of government.

Or maybe you don't, I don't care.
 
Biff better hope Vlad doesn't eat any asparagus before their summit, if you know what I'm sayin'...
Geezus, dude! Does everything in your life revolve around this stuff? I've never seen a dude make this reference. I hope you're really a woman...
 
Geezus, dude! Does everything in your life revolve around this stuff? I've never seen a dude make this reference. I hope you're really a woman...

Considering the homoeroticism involved in many of your posts, you really wanna go there? Lol
 
Considering the homoeroticism involved in many of your posts, you really wanna go there? Lol
Huh? Your dad will beat your ass if he sees you using words like that. You need to flush your browser history pronto. He'll probably put you out of work longer than the staph infection did.

Just sayin.
 
Huh? Your dad will beat your ass if he sees you using words like that. You need to flush your browser history pronto. He'll probably put you out of work longer than the staph infection did.

Just sayin.

You think my dad cares about what I read or write on the net lol. What an idiot haha
 
I'd love to have a reasonable discussion about our North Korean policy and the options Trump is going to have going forward (especially given his most recent actions).

You game?

I'm game.

In what way do you see the US policy toward NK being harmed by Trump saluting the general? How has that affected the way he will negotiate in the future? Exactly what leverage do you see NK having because of the salute? Do you think Trump had diminished his negotiating power with Kim because he saluted the general? If yes, how and why has it been diminished?

For example, if Trump says he won't retract the economic sanctions on NK until they have made significant strides in reducing (or abolishing) their nuclear capability, is it your contention that Kim will say "but you saluted our general, so you have to reduce the sanctions!"? I'm not understanding your concern on that topic. Is it you dislike the optics? Do you think Trump gives a flying fig about Kim's perception of the optics? Or anyone else's, for that matter.

Personally I think the whole thing is much ado about nothing, just the typical leftist/Democratic Party's non-stop attempt to criticize Trump on everything. I don't see a downside to the salute. If you do, please explain what it is.
 
Can any discussion on this subject be truly credible without mentioning the unique characteristics of negotiating with Asians?


Asians and Asian cultures are a totally different mindset from the west, in many ways.


White liberals who dream of a borderless and genderless world, where everyone is basically the same — one single culture and genderfluid blob — doesn’t match up to Asian realities. (Or any reality)


Has anyone on here negotiated with Chinese? It can raise blood pressure quickly.

@windriverrange ?
 
Personally I think the whole thing is much ado about nothing, just the typical leftist/Democratic Party's non-stop attempt to criticize Trump on everything. I don't see a downside to the salute. If you do, please explain what it is.
Trump actually went to shake the guy's hand and the guy saluted him, so Trump returned the salute and then shook his hand. Agreed it's just the usual bitching about all things Trump. There's plenty to bitch about without clinging to every petty thing that hits the news.
 
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In what way do you see the US policy toward NK being harmed by Trump saluting the general? How has that affected the way he will negotiate in the future? Exactly what leverage do you see NK having because of the salute? Do you think Trump had diminished his negotiating power with Kim because he saluted the general? If yes, how and why has it been diminished?

I am going to reference both the saluting of the general and the praise he is lavishing on Kim:

(1) It betrays our national values. I support diplomacy with North Korea, but you can engage in diplomacy without such behavior.

(2) All of this is a great for North Korea's propoganda purposes. Which of course they are using extensively.

(3) I think Trump could be diminishing his options moving forward. He is now committed with his comments. What does he do if Kim doesn't denuclearize? Does he pretend everything is ok, make comments about how denuclearization takes time, etc. while North Korea does nothing? If he wants to maintain all of this is a success politically and his praise of Kim wasn't wrong, doesn't it seem like he would have to do that. If not, does he say he was wrong? He messed up? Does that sound like Trump to you, admitting a mistake?

Again, why limit your options politically? Why not keep your mouth shut for the most part and when you do speak, speak carefully so as to keep options open going forward.

(4) Right now, North Korea is getting everything it wants with simply a promise to denuclearize. If they fail to go through with this promise (as they have always done in the past), what leverage will Trump have unless he changes course and gets tough again?

For example, if Trump says he won't retract the economic sanctions on NK until they have made significant strides in reducing (or abolishing) their nuclear capability, is it your contention that Kim will say "but you saluted our general, so you have to reduce the sanctions!"?

Well first, according to North Korea, Trump has already promised to lift the sanctions. So if he now says, I am not lifting the sanctions he is going to have to explain why. And that why is "North Korea isn't following through on their promise." But Mr. President, didn't you already say that North Korea wasn't a nuclear threat anymore? Didn't you praise Kim? Didn't you say, Didn't you salute....

Trump either has to say, "yeah I was wrong" (do you know Trump to do this?) or he has to act like North Korea is following through when they really aren't. He has to essentially accept a nuclear North Korea because he is boxed in.

I think a wise President would choose his words very carefully so as to not be boxed in, to not have to say he was wrong, and to have numerous options moving forward.
 
I am going to reference both the saluting of the general and the praise he is lavishing on Kim:

(1) It betrays our national values. I support diplomacy with North Korea, but you can engage in diplomacy without such behavior.

(2) All of this is a great for North Korea's propoganda purposes. Which of course they are using extensively.

(3) I think Trump could be diminishing his options moving forward. He is now committed with his comments. What does he do if Kim doesn't denuclearize? Does he pretend everything is ok, make comments about how denuclearization takes time, etc. while North Korea does nothing? If he wants to maintain all of this is a success politically and his praise of Kim wasn't wrong, doesn't it seem like he would have to do that. If not, does he say he was wrong? He messed up? Does that sound like Trump to you, admitting a mistake?

Again, why limit your options politically? Why not keep your mouth shut for the most part and when you do speak, speak carefully so as to keep options open going forward.

(4) Right now, North Korea is getting everything it wants with simply a promise to denuclearize. If they fail to go through with this promise (as they have always done in the past), what leverage will Trump have unless he changes course and gets tough again?



Well first, according to North Korea, Trump has already promised to lift the sanctions. So if he now says, I am not lifting the sanctions he is going to have to explain why. And that why is "North Korea isn't following through on their promise." But Mr. President, didn't you already say that North Korea wasn't a nuclear threat anymore? Didn't you praise Kim? Didn't you say, Didn't you salute....

Trump either has to say, "yeah I was wrong" (do you know Trump to do this?) or he has to act like North Korea is following through when they really aren't. He has to essentially accept a nuclear North Korea because he is boxed in.

I think a wise President would choose his words very carefully so as to not be boxed in, to not have to say he was wrong, and to have numerous options moving forward.
Don’t misunderstand me, I find Trump’s statements to be disturbing. I just don’t think they will have any impact on his actions in the future. I do not think he has painted himself into a corner. Kim’s propaganda will have no impact. Trump has all the leverage and he knows it.

I am not aware of Trump promising to lift sanctions regardless of what Kin does with his arsenal. If he really said that I have no doubt he would have no trouble reneging, he’s done it in business countless times.

This seems to me to be classic #resistance, Alinsky tactics of never give an inch, never relent, never admit a mistake, attack, attack, attack until you wear down the opposition. It has worked on conservatives and Republican for as long as I can remember, but Trump defies that tactic.

Much ado about nothing.
 
Don’t misunderstand me, I find Trump’s statements to be disturbing. I just don’t think they will have any impact on his actions in the future. I do not think he has painted himself into a corner. Kim’s propaganda will have no impact. Trump has all the leverage and he knows it.

I am not aware of Trump promising to lift sanctions regardless of what Kin does with his arsenal. If he really said that I have no doubt he would have no trouble reneging, he’s done it in business countless times.

This seems to me to be classic #resistance, Alinsky tactics of never give an inch, never relent, never admit a mistake, attack, attack, attack until you wear down the opposition. It has worked on conservatives and Republican for as long as I can remember, but Trump defies that tactic.

Much ado about nothing.

You nailed it. @my_2cents claims to be a lawyer, yet you pigeonholed him ASAP.

To your point, Pompeo has stated that there are many conditions on all this stuff moving forward. Dude is a boss.
 
Don’t misunderstand me, I find Trump’s statements to be disturbing. I just don’t think they will have any impact on his actions in the future. I do not think he has painted himself into a corner. Kim’s propaganda will have no impact. Trump has all the leverage and he knows it.

I am not aware of Trump promising to lift sanctions regardless of what Kin does with his arsenal. If he really said that I have no doubt he would have no trouble reneging, he’s done it in business countless times.

This seems to me to be classic #resistance, Alinsky tactics of never give an inch, never relent, never admit a mistake, attack, attack, attack until you wear down the opposition. It has worked on conservatives and Republican for as long as I can remember, but Trump defies that tactic.

Much ado about nothing.
You need to be featured on WWE Smackdown, sir. Great post.
 
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Don’t misunderstand me, I find Trump’s statements to be disturbing.

Of course they are disturbing and they betray the values we claim to embrace as a nation.

I do not think he has painted himself into a corner.

Explain how he has not painted himself into a corner. What are his options if Kim doesn't denuclearize? And how does he explain his comments and actions when Kim fails to denculearize?

Kim’s propaganda will have no impact.

Kim's propaganda strengthens his ability to control. By giving him these gifts, we are strenthening his position in North Korea, not weakening it.

I am not aware of Trump promising to lift sanctions regardless of what Kin does with his arsenal. If he really said that I have no doubt he would have no trouble reneging, he’s done it in business countless times.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-lift-sanctions-against-north-idUSKBN1J9022

Why would he need to renege though? Trump claims North Korea is no longer a nuclear power. Trump claims North Korea is going denuclearize. Trump is now praising Kim. See what I mean?

This seems to me to be classic #resistance

Not at all. This is simply discussing the ends and outs of diplomacy and how it should be conducted to further our (and our allies)' interests.

There are legitimate questions about the path Trump is pursuing at this moment with North Korea. No harm in considering them.
 
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Of course they are disturbing and they betray the values we claim to embrace as a nation.



Explain how he has not painted himself into a corner. What are his options if Kim doesn't denuclearize? And how does he explain his comments and actions when Kim fails to denculearize?



Kim's propaganda strengthens his ability to control. By giving him these gifts, we are strenthening his position in North Korea, not weakening it.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-lift-sanctions-against-north-idUSKBN1J9022

Why would he need to renig though? Trump claims North Korea is no longer a nuclear power. Trump claims North Korea is going denuclearize. Trump is now praising Kim.



Not at all. This is simply discussing the ends and outs of diplomacy and how it should be conducted to further our (and our allies)' interests.

Know how I know you're fibbing about being a lawyer?

A lawyer has more capacity to discuss multiple moving parts and multiple scenarios and multiple overlays. But your (fairly restrictive) mental box is showing. Not smart.
 
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Of course they are disturbing and they betray the values we claim to embrace as a nation.



Explain how he has not painted himself into a corner. What are his options if Kim doesn't denuclearize? And how does he explain his comments and actions when Kim fails to denculearize?



Kim's propaganda strengthens his ability to control. By giving him these gifts, we are strenthening his position in North Korea, not weakening it.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-lift-sanctions-against-north-idUSKBN1J9022

Why would he need to reniege though? Trump claims North Korea is no longer a nuclear power. Trump claims North Korea is going denuclearize. Trump is now praising Kim.



Not at all. This is simply discussing the ends and outs of diplomacy and how it should be conducted to further our (and our allies)' interests.

There are legitimate questions about the path Trump is pursuing at this moment with North Korea. Simply dismissing them as "resistence fodder" is the actions of a partisan.
Just entered the movie (Invincibles 2) with my granddaughters. I’ll reply later.
 
Know how I know you're fibbing about being a lawyer?

A lawyer has more capacity to discuss multiple moving parts and multiple scenarios and multiple overlays. But your (fairly restrictive) mental box is showing. Not smart.
If he is a lawyer, he's clearly not in the league of JD, hollywood, or even sys when he's not drunk on Biff Juice.
 
A lawyer has more capacity to discuss multiple moving parts and multiple scenarios and multiple overlays.

I am discussing them. All you are doing is attempting to bait me with your childish lawyer comments.

I get it, that is your MO on here. When you can't reason with someone, you just attack them. Enjoy that.
 
I am discussing them. All you are doing is attempting to bait me with your childish lawyer comments.

I get it, that is your MO on here. When you can't reason with someone, you just attack them. Enjoy that.

I'm pointing out that you demonstrate on here that you aren't smart enough to be what you claim.

This isn't rocket science.
 
I'm pointing out that you demonstrate on here that you aren't smart enough to be what you claim.

This isn't rocket science.
It might be rocket science for him. He is clearly the captain of the struggle bus.
 
This seems to me to be classic #resistance, Alinsky tactics of never give an inch, never relent, never admit a mistake, attack, attack, attack until you wear down the opposition. It has worked on conservatives and Republican for as long as I can remember, but Trump defies that tactic.

Much ado about nothing.

He has adopted and pursues the tactic himself.
 
Of course they are disturbing and they betray the values we claim to embrace as a nation.



Explain how he has not painted himself into a corner. What are his options if Kim doesn't denuclearize? And how does he explain his comments and actions when Kim fails to denculearize?



Kim's propaganda strengthens his ability to control. By giving him these gifts, we are strenthening his position in North Korea, not weakening it.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-lift-sanctions-against-north-idUSKBN1J9022

Why would he need to renege though? Trump claims North Korea is no longer a nuclear power. Trump claims North Korea is going denuclearize. Trump is now praising Kim. See what I mean?



Not at all. This is simply discussing the ends and outs of diplomacy and how it should be conducted to further our (and our allies)' interests.

There are legitimate questions about the path Trump is pursuing at this moment with North Korea. No harm in considering them.


1). I don’t think Trump concerns himself with the values “we as a nation” embrace. He is different from any other politician I can think of. I think that’s part of the reason he has been so effective, and a primary reason the left has not touched him with a glove.

2). His options remain the same. Continue to strangle his military through the economic sanctions. One thing that is clear about DJT is he has his own way of doing things. I doubt he loses a minute’s sleep over any of this. Like I said earlier he has all the aces and he knows it.

One other thing about Trump: he is surprisingly willing to shrug his shoulders and let go of a failed policy. I guess it’s something he learned in business. Cut your losses. And he does it in a matter of fact manner. Says it doesn’t work and movea on.

Your concern that he has limited his options is a misplaced, Democrat Party talking point, an attempt to inject doubt. That’s clearly something to which Trump is immune.

3). Believing a salute to a general gives Kim a domestic advantage he didn’t have before is ridiculous. Kim is a brutal homicidal maniac that has total control over his country. 100% control is the most a dictator can have. Kim already has 100% control. Airing the salute on NK tv changes nothing. Again it’s an Alinsky-like tactic to make feeble minded moderate Americans have doubts. If you truly believe what you’re saying (and for some reason I think you know better) what does that say about your “mindedness?”

4). Trump would renege on the deal because he would see that it is not in Anerica’s interest.

One thing you don’t seem to understand about Trump: what’s in his head at this moment is what comes out of his mouth at this moment. As soon as another thought enters his head - even if it contradicts what he said earlier - that’s what will come out of his mouth. His word is not necessarily his bond, and anyone with a smidgin of insight should know that.

5). Please don’t play me for a fool. You are echoing every left wing talking point that has appeared in print and on the airways. I appreciate that you speak calmly and do not engage in ad hominem rhetoric, but it’s pretty clear you are a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
 
1). I don’t think Trump concerns himself with the values “we as a nation” embrace. He is different from any other politician I can think of. I think that’s part of the reason he has been so effective, and a primary reason the left has not touched him with a glove.

2). His options remain the same. Continue to strangle his military through the economic sanctions. One thing that is clear about DJT is he has his own way of doing things. I doubt he loses a minute’s sleep over any of this. Like I said earlier he has all the aces and he knows it.

One other thing about Trump: he is surprisingly willing to shrug his shoulders and let go of a failed policy. I guess it’s something he learned in business. Cut your losses. And he does it in a matter of fact manner. Says it doesn’t work and movea on.

Your concern that he has limited his options is a misplaced, Democrat Party talking point, an attempt to inject doubt. That’s clearly something to which Trump is immune.

3). Believing a salute to a general gives Kim a domestic advantage he didn’t have before is ridiculous. Kim is a brutal homicidal maniac that has total control over his country. 100% control is the most a dictator can have. Kim already has 100% control. Airing the salute on NK tv changes nothing. Again it’s an Alinsky-like tactic to make feeble minded moderate Americans have doubts. If you truly believe what you’re saying (and for some reason I think you know better) what does that say about your “mindedness?”

4). Trump would renege on the deal because he would see that it is not in Anerica’s interest.

One thing you don’t seem to understand about Trump: what’s in his head at this moment is what comes out of his mouth at this moment. As soon as another thought enters his head - even if it contradicts what he said earlier - that’s what will come out of his mouth. His word is not necessarily his bond, and anyone with a smidgin of insight should know that.

5). Please don’t play me for a fool. You are echoing every left wing talking point that has appeared in print and on the airways. I appreciate that you speak calmly and do not engage in ad hominem rhetoric, but it’s pretty clear you are a wolf in sheep’s clothing.


1. Does the fact that he doesn’t concern himself with the values we as a country embrace concern you at all?

2a. If he holds all the aces, why is he (as characterized by HighStick) kissing Kim’s ass by defending his human rights record?

2b. What failed policies has he just let go?

4. Does no filter between his brain and mouth and his word not being his bond cause you any concern at all.

5. Complimenting him for not engaging in ad hominem attacks...immediately followed with one of your own. Nice work there.
 
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CowboyJD beat me to the punch but I too will respond...

1). I don’t think Trump concerns himself with the values “we as a nation” embrace. He is different from any other politician I can think of. I think that’s part of the reason he has been so effective, and a primary reason the left has not touched him with a glove.

He is the President. Should he not concern himself with the values our nation embraces? Especially when conducting diplomacy with a ruthless authoritarian dictator?

btw, how effective he has been is up for debate, but that is another conversation.

2). His options remain the same. Continue to strangle his military through the economic sanctions. One thing that is clear about DJT is he has his own way of doing things. I doubt he loses a minute’s sleep over any of this. Like I said earlier he has all the aces and he knows it.

In order to get tough with North Korea again, or to continue the economic sanctions long-term, he is going to have to admit that North Korea isn't denuclearizing. That is now going to create domestic politics problems for him. Kim isn't stupid, he knows this too.

And Trump should know this and should know that the more he talks, the more boxed in he becomes.

3). Believing a salute to a general gives Kim a domestic advantage he didn’t have before is ridiculous. Kim is a brutal homicidal maniac that has total control over his country. 100% control is the most a dictator can have. Kim already has 100% control.

If Kim has total control over his country, 100% control, then why do you believe economic sanctions can place that control in jeopardy? Why do you think these sanctions can create problems between him and his military and the North Korean elite?

Think about it.

I agree that economic sanctions can possibly have a negative effect on Kim's control in North Korea. Just like giving him propaganda gifts can have a positive effect for him as well.

4). Trump would renege on the deal because he would see that it is not in Anerica’s interest.

One thing you don’t seem to understand about Trump: what’s in his head at this moment is what comes out of his mouth at this moment. As soon as another thought enters his head - even if it contradicts what he said earlier - that’s what will come out of his mouth. His word is not necessarily his bond, and anyone with a smidgin of insight should know that.

No, I fully understand this about Trump. And you know who else does? Kim. North Korea. Ever other leader in the world.

And this type of behavior by Trump can create problems for him when it comes to conducting diplomacy. His mouth could end up being his worst enemy.

5). Please don’t play me for a fool. You are echoing every left wing talking point that has appeared in print and on the airways. I appreciate that you speak calmly and do not engage in ad hominem rhetoric, but it’s pretty clear you are a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

I am not playing you for anything. I am giving you my opinion and what I see.

btw, what is the whole "Alinsky-like tactic" you continue to reference? A talking point from the right.
 
CowboyJD beat me to the punch but I too will respond...



He is the President. Should he not concern himself with the values our nation embraces? Especially when conducting diplomacy with a ruthless authoritarian dictator?

btw, how effective he has been is up for debate, but that is another conversation.



In order to get tough with North Korea again, or to continue the economic sanctions long-term, he is going to have to admit that North Korea isn't denuclearizing. That is now going to create domestic politics problems for him. Kim isn't stupid, he knows this too.

And Trump should know this and should know that the more he talks, the more boxed in he becomes.



If Kim has total control over his country, 100% control, then why do you believe economic sanctions can place that control in jeopardy? Why do you think these sanctions can create problems between him and his military and the North Korean elite?

Think about it.

I agree that economic sanctions can possibly have a negative effect on Kim's control in North Korea. Just like giving him propaganda gifts can have a positive effect for him as well.



No, I fully understand this about Trump. And you know who else does? Kim. North Korea. Ever other leader in the world.

And this type of behavior by Trump can create problems for him when it comes to conducting diplomacy. His mouth could end up being his worst enemy.



I am not playing you for anything. I am giving you my opinion and what I see.

btw, what is the whole "Alinsky-like tactic" you continue to reference? A talking point from the right.
I’m getting exhausted trying to keep up with two conversations about the same subject. I suggest we take it to the other thread.
 
I’m getting exhausted trying to keep up with two conversations about the same subject. I suggest we take it to the other thread.

@my_2cents A tip on who you’re dealing with...he’s suggesting you take it to the other thread because I’m in this one and he is presently giving me the classic passive aggressive silent treatment.
 
I would like to suggest that most attorneys are not smart. JD has a high IQ....Hollywood and Sys are certainly above average but I have met way too many dumb attorneys.

Nah...my IQ is pretty average, but I have keen animal cunning and strong go for the jugular animal instincts...metaphorically and rhetorically speaking.
 
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