ADVERTISEMENT

Leaving

I've been following the discussions on this forum pretty closely about CC, Perry, Thompson, Williams, partying, lifestyle, culture, PSU etc...
Here's my 2 cents. I have no facts about individuals I want to share, these are just my opinions based on following OSU throughout John's tenure as a coach. Back in the day it was mainly Iowa vs OSU in wrestling, then Minnesota under JRob got into the mix then more of the Big 10 schools started rising like tOSU and finally PSU took everything over. My simple view on why OSU has gone from being a top 1-2 program under John to being a top 10ish, headed toward a top 20ish program under John is that a large number of wrestling programs evolved over those years and OSU's program did not evolve in any meaningful way. During the course of those 25-30 years I saw OSU teams that had tremendous talent, top recruiting classes, coaches that were very technically sound, but except for a few years in the early 2000s, in which OSU simply had FAR more talent than any other team in the nation, OSU teams in my opinion did not generally reach their full potential. I saw too many teams with wrestlers who were gassing out, having poor performances at Nationals, too many injuries, not physically strong enough etc... I speculated over the years it was from any number of causes - not properly conditioned, too much weight cutting, poor nutrition, partying, not dedicated enough, over training, not training during the off season, poor strength training etc... who knows, but something wasn't right, there was too much talent under performing for many years.
So now, based on everything I know about Taylor and following wrestling for years, OSU is at a historic point in time. We have, what I perceive to be a monumental shift in culture, a modern vision of what OSU wrestling wants to become, and resources and coaches that I believe can actually make that happen. I believe the vision (now) is to actually compete for team titles, individual titles and age level world championships. In order to do that, OSU must go down a far different path than it has been going down the last three decades. It will be very uncomfortable for many, especially in the beginning. To achieve this vision, some steps backward will have to be taken before moving forward is possible. Taylor, in my opinion has done exactly what he needed to do so far - cleaning house is a big first step to instilling the necessary culture. There is no getting around it - if the goal is truly to be #1 again, there can be no party culture any more. Wrestlers and coaches alike must be 100% on board with this and must "live the life". This means a lot of sacrifices that a lot of folks will not want to make and just flat out don't agree with, but that is what being #1 requires these days. The bar has been raised.
Good post sir.. I think perhaps the reason we havent seen an exodus from the Ok State program vs. what Penn State had when Karl got there has to do with the fact that when the coaching change happened at Penn State, people didnt know if it was going to work or not. We now know his methodology works.
This coaching change seems to be a huge eye opening experience for alot of people to include the previous coaching staff , the current wrestlers and the fan.. I dont mean this as in anyway derogatory towards the previous staff, it seems like there was a lowering of expectations that has been trending for along time that a majority of people didnt / couldnt see.. It has to be humbling for alot of people to see the huge amount of change and resources that have resulted from the new coaches arriving. It also has to sting that the new staff only wanted to retain one person from the old staff. There seems to be a huge shift in expectations with this staff vs. what the fans were all excited about with the prospect of Coach Scott taking over.
Thinking back it seems like there have been alot of highly regarded recruits that never reached there potential and / or flamed out and either went somewhere else or left the sport. When I think about development, there is no comparison to what Penn State has done vs. almost everyone else.
When I think about the top coaches and programs in college wrestling, if I wanted to I can hear directly from multiple Ok State wrestlers to include John Smith himself.. or Iowa, I can hear from both of the Brands Brothers, doug Schwab, the Steiners, Dan Gable himself, etc... There isnt really one top program that hasnt put out videos, books, put on coaching clinics, etc that tell everyone exactly how they train and how they teach and drill, run practices.. BESIDES Penn State.. Until we got our new staff, there have been no break aways, no one has discussed or revealed how Penn State has done what they have. It seems like a big deal that the Ok State program has put themselves in a position to compete for team titles, individual titles, transfers and top recruits.
It sucks how everything turned out for the previous staff and I wish them the best. If anyone has any pause about CC leaving, I point to the Bubba Jenkins situation.. He was the highest returning placer for Penn State and was asked to leave. While he wins a national title the next year, that one individual title sacrifice led to a period of dominance we havent seen before. Nothing against CC, I would rather let him find a place where he can feel comfortable vs. keep him around and him holding the program back.
 
Good post sir.. I think perhaps the reason we havent seen an exodus from the Ok State program vs. what Penn State had when Karl got there has to do with the fact that when the coaching change happened at Penn State, people didnt know if it was going to work or not. We now know his methodology works.
This coaching change seems to be a huge eye opening experience for alot of people to include the previous coaching staff , the current wrestlers and the fan.. I dont mean this as in anyway derogatory towards the previous staff, it seems like there was a lowering of expectations that has been trending for along time that a majority of people didnt / couldnt see.. It has to be humbling for alot of people to see the huge amount of change and resources that have resulted from the new coaches arriving. It also has to sting that the new staff only wanted to retain one person from the old staff. There seems to be a huge shift in expectations with this staff vs. what the fans were all excited about with the prospect of Coach Scott taking over.
Thinking back it seems like there have been alot of highly regarded recruits that never reached there potential and / or flamed out and either went somewhere else or left the sport. When I think about development, there is no comparison to what Penn State has done vs. almost everyone else.
When I think about the top coaches and programs in college wrestling, if I wanted to I can hear directly from multiple Ok State wrestlers to include John Smith himself.. or Iowa, I can hear from both of the Brands Brothers, doug Schwab, the Steiners, Dan Gable himself, etc... There isnt really one top program that hasnt put out videos, books, put on coaching clinics, etc that tell everyone exactly how they train and how they teach and drill, run practices.. BESIDES Penn State.. Until we got our new staff, there have been no break aways, no one has discussed or revealed how Penn State has done what they have. It seems like a big deal that the Ok State program has put themselves in a position to compete for team titles, individual titles, transfers and top recruits.
It sucks how everything turned out for the previous staff and I wish them the best. If anyone has any pause about CC leaving, I point to the Bubba Jenkins situation.. He was the highest returning placer for Penn State and was asked to leave. While he wins a national title the next year, that one individual title sacrifice led to a period of dominance we havent seen before. Nothing against CC, I would rather let him find a place where he can feel comfortable vs. keep him around and him holding the program back.
An incredible post as was the post before yours. I absolutely love the passion. The irony is that Coach Taylor lived the Bubba decision by getting pinned in that final but has the same opinion. You have to subtract in order to add. Sounds hokey but true. Everything I've read so far about Taylor as a coach is that he is doing things the right way. You've only lost 2-3 guys. We lost 17. Talk about a freak out back in 2009. Cael wasn't correct in everything and maybe David is taking the best decisions from Cael and dumping the mistakes he made.
 
I just don’t see this as some big melt down like he is saying it is. Go check out message board geniuses on twitter and you’ll see what meltdowns look like. I saw a whole lot more of wishing CC well than I did posts about Perry. I’d rather not read dirty laundry about our own but I also am not close enough to the situation to know if any of those rumors have any truth to them.
👍🏻
 
  • Like
Reactions: AtownPoke
Good post sir.. I think perhaps the reason we havent seen an exodus from the Ok State program vs. what Penn State had when Karl got there has to do with the fact that when the coaching change happened at Penn State, people didnt know if it was going to work or not. We now know his methodology works.
This coaching change seems to be a huge eye opening experience for alot of people to include the previous coaching staff , the current wrestlers and the fan.. I dont mean this as in anyway derogatory towards the previous staff, it seems like there was a lowering of expectations that has been trending for along time that a majority of people didnt / couldnt see.. It has to be humbling for alot of people to see the huge amount of change and resources that have resulted from the new coaches arriving. It also has to sting that the new staff only wanted to retain one person from the old staff. There seems to be a huge shift in expectations with this staff vs. what the fans were all excited about with the prospect of Coach Scott taking over.
Thinking back it seems like there have been alot of highly regarded recruits that never reached there potential and / or flamed out and either went somewhere else or left the sport. When I think about development, there is no comparison to what Penn State has done vs. almost everyone else.
When I think about the top coaches and programs in college wrestling, if I wanted to I can hear directly from multiple Ok State wrestlers to include John Smith himself.. or Iowa, I can hear from both of the Brands Brothers, doug Schwab, the Steiners, Dan Gable himself, etc... There isnt really one top program that hasnt put out videos, books, put on coaching clinics, etc that tell everyone exactly how they train and how they teach and drill, run practices.. BESIDES Penn State.. Until we got our new staff, there have been no break aways, no one has discussed or revealed how Penn State has done what they have. It seems like a big deal that the Ok State program has put themselves in a position to compete for team titles, individual titles, transfers and top recruits.
It sucks how everything turned out for the previous staff and I wish them the best. If anyone has any pause about CC leaving, I point to the Bubba Jenkins situation.. He was the highest returning placer for Penn State and was asked to leave. While he wins a national title the next year, that one individual title sacrifice led to a period of dominance we havent seen before. Nothing against CC, I would rather let him find a place where he can feel comfortable vs. keep him around and him holding the program back.
I will not pile on but some of the conversations I’ve had with some of our prospects parents was disheartening at best. We have a standard.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT