Just an observation...state of debate and opinions

[OKSTATE1]

It appears to me that after today, there is absolutely nothing that can change the opinions of hardcore left supporters, we have about 4 on this board that appear to be in that group? Maybe 6 at the most that consistently post?

When Trump was elected, all of us that voted for Trump said if he committed a crime get him out, none of us said no investigation, I think the problem we had was that there was plenty of evidence to warrant a full blown investigation of Hillary and it never happened. We wanted equal treatment.

I wanted every Dem and Rep voted out in 2016.

So here we are, none of the supporters of Trump are going to change the minds of the few Libs on this board. There is nothing that is going to change the minds of Trump supporters based on where we are at today.

There is no real debate left, there is no listening with an open mind.

It seems the Libs have been reduced to trolling on this Board to simply piss on our parade and poke the bear.

At one time I think there was some serious exchange of opinions, but this board is as hardened in its opinions and views as the country.

I was a former Dem supporter when I was younger, became a Republican after Clinton’s first term. I was an independent that voted across both aisles.

For me, there is absolutely nothing the Dem party offers me today, nothing.

The people that post here probably 95% Trump supporters at this point?

So, what is the point of of the exchanges with the Dims on this Board at this point?

Nothing is going to change, it feels like a complete waste of time.

I feel like I would rather talk politics with fellow conservative Trump supporters and discuss how we can improve this country and how Trump and fellow conservatives can move this country forward.

The trolling Libs IMO should be ignored, name me one opinion that has been changed on this Board with thoughtful debate between the opposing viewpoints in the last 2 years?

I think the Libs would be happier finding a Board that shares their common opinions, opinions that will not and can not be changed, not with their hate for Trump.

In all honesty, who gives a shit what @Syskatine and the rest of the Lib squad on this board thinks when it comes to Trump? Same old crap for almost 3 years.

They are pissed Trump won, they hate Trump, they hate us for voting for him, we are the deplorables. They now openly call us racists? Why give people like that any respect, they deserve none.

Sucks for them the school they attended and it’s grads have a mostly conservative slant, I think many would like to see a more moderate form of governing, unfortunately the Dems are rolling out total POS candidates with policies more ridiculous than the wall Trump proposed.

I say stop taking the bait, the Libs troll and want to make you miserable, we simply are not at the point for people to be more open minded about their opinions. The more Dems wail and screach and MSM unfairly treats our President, the more it makes me support him. Obama and Hillary were given a fair shake. When the Dims can acccept Trump’s accomplishments, I might be more open minded to their criticism.

The only people I trust in terms of evaluating Trump fairly without hate in their mind for him is fellow Trump supporters. Lib and MSM criticism is so unfair it just moves me that more for Trump.

If today is not an opinion changer for some, it never will be. Time IMO to move on, let the Libs circle jerk about Russia and collusion until 2024, who cares anymore? They offer many of us nothing and nothing is changing in terms of opinions.

 

[CowboyJD]

“When Trump was elected, all of us that voted for Trump said if he committed a crime get him out, none of us said no investigation, I think the problem we had was that there was plenty of evidence to warrant a full blown investigation of Hillary and it never happened. We wanted equal treatment.”

My recollection re: people saying “no investigation” is very different than yours.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on, though.

There aren’t any (well...very, very few) open-minded good faith discussions going on here any more. It’s mostly All 4 Trump or All Anti-Trump factions screaming across the aisle at each other.

 

[aliabedi]

It appears to me that after today, there is absolutely nothing that can change the opinions of hardcore left supporters, we have about 4 on this board that appear to be in that group? Maybe 6 at the most that consistently post?

When Trump was elected, all of us that voted for Trump said if he committed a crime get him out, none of us said no investigation, I think the problem we had was that there was plenty of evidence to warrant a full blown investigation of Hillary and it never happened. We wanted equal treatment.

I wanted every Dem and Rep voted out in 2016.

So here we are, none of the supporters of Trump are going to change the minds of the few Libs on this board. There is nothing that is going to change the minds of Trump supporters based on where we are at today.

There is no real debate left, there is no listening with an open mind.

It seems the Libs have been reduced to trolling on this Board to simply piss on our parade and poke the bear.

At one time I think there was some serious exchange of opinions, but this board is as hardened in its opinions and views as the country.

I was a former Dem supporter when I was younger, became a Republican after Clinton’s first term. I was an independent that voted across both aisles.

For me, there is absolutely nothing the Dem party offers me today, nothing.

The people that post here probably 95% Trump supporters at this point?

So, what is the point of of the exchanges with the Dims on this Board at this point?

Nothing is going to change, it feels like a complete waste of time.

I feel like I would rather talk politics with fellow conservative Trump supporters and discuss how we can improve this country and how Trump and fellow conservatives can move this country forward.

The trolling Libs IMO should be ignored, name me one opinion that has been changed on this Board with thoughtful debate between the opposing viewpoints in the last 2 years?

I think the Libs would be happier finding a Board that shares their common opinions, opinions that will not and can not be changed, not with their hate for Trump.

In all honesty, who gives a shit what @Syskatine and the rest of the Lib squad on this board thinks when it comes to Trump? Same old crap for almost 3 years.

They are pissed Trump won, they hate Trump, they hate us for voting for him, we are the deplorables. They now openly call us racists? Why give people like that any respect, they deserve none.

Sucks for them the school they attended and it’s grads have a mostly conservative slant, I think many would like to see a more moderate form of governing, unfortunately the Dems are rolling out total POS candidates with policies more ridiculous than the wall Trump proposed.

I say stop taking the bait, the Libs troll and want to make you miserable, we simply are not at the point for people to be more open minded about their opinions. The more Dems wail and screach and MSM unfairly treats our President, the more it makes me support him. Obama and Hillary were given a fair shake. When the Dims can acccept Trump’s accomplishments, I might be more open minded to their criticism.

The only people I trust in terms of evaluating Trump fairly without hate in their mind for him is fellow Trump supporters. Lib and MSM criticism is so unfair it just moves me that more for Trump.

If today is not an opinion changer for some, it never will be. Time IMO to move on, let the Libs circle jerk about Russia and collusion until 2024, who cares anymore? They offer many of us nothing and nothing is changing in terms of opinions.

I totally agree with you I watched most of his testimony and he stuck to
his opening statement that he would only discuss the report..
He did not exonerate Trump nor did he convict him.
Neither Republicans nor Democrats could move him from his stance.
But I did gain more insight into the man Mueller I have gained new respect for him as a man of principles.
It is useless to discuss Trump because both sides will stick to their point of view.
In a democratic tradition Americans would decide who is more suitable to being their President, even the debate on popular vote is useless because Americans have to go with what their constitution says.

 

[22LR]

He did not exonerate Trump nor did he convict him.
Neither Republicans nor Democrats could move him from his stance.

Exoneration or conviction isn't his job. Mind blowing, I know.

 

[Ostatedchi]

It seems the Libs have been reduced to trolling on this Board to simply piss on our parade and poke the bear.

At one time I think there was some serious exchange of opinions, but this board is as hardened in its opinions and views as the country.

That's why I've put those 6 or so you talk about on ignore. I don't ignore them because their views differ from mine. Hell, I'd love to really debate people who disagree with me on items. But they aren't here for that.

 

[OKSTATE1]

That's why I've put those 6 or so you talk about on ignore. I don't ignore them because their views differ from mine. Hell, I'd love to really debate people who disagree with me on items. But they aren't here for that.

I agree, I have 3 of them on ignore for the exact same reason. One of them I have a huge problem with morally when it comes to abortion and infanticide, they have no humanity left when it comes to the discussion. One thing to be pro abortion, another to joke about infanticide and brag about it, I am not engaging those people, I simply have some min standards with who I am going to interact with. For me that is not a simple difference in opinion.

 

[22LR]

Ignore isn't for me. Those dolts make me feel like a king.

 

[Cowguy]

“When Trump was elected, all of us that voted for Trump said if he committed a crime get him out, none of us said no investigation, I think the problem we had was that there was plenty of evidence to warrant a full blown investigation of Hillary and it never happened. We wanted equal treatment.”

My recollection re: people saying “no investigation” is very different than yours.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on, though.

There aren’t any (well...very, very few) open-minded good faith discussions going on here any more. It’s mostly All 4 Trump or All Anti-Trump factions screaming across the aisle at each other.

I don’t know how we got here. I’ve been absorbing as much nasa content as I can find and it’s given me a window into discourse and demeanor of the legislative branches during that period. How we’ve gone from that to this is just mind boggling. I think the vast majority of the population is really rather centrist, but there is just no option except the extremes, so you’re forced to hold your nose for the lesser evil.

I threw my vote away on the libertarian candidate in the last election. He was a kook and there was no way he could win, but the alternatives were just unpalatable to me. I don’t know what the future holds for my kids, but I don’t see any viable alternatives to the current model - in the foreseeable future. There doesn’t appear to be any true fiscal conservatives left. We are going to eventually have to pay the bill. 50ish years from “the greatest generation” and now this? It’s gross.

 

[Rdcldad]

even the debate on popular vote is useless because Americans have to go with what their constitution says.

and what a problem that damn constitution is

 

[aliabedi]

and what a problem that damn constitution is

Nothing it is a pretty good constitution.

 

[CowboyJD]

I don’t know how we got here. I’ve been absorbing as much nasa content as I can find and it’s given me a window into discourse and demeanor of the legislative branches during that period. How we’ve gone from that to this is just mind boggling. I think the vast majority of the population is really rather centrist, but there is just no option except the extremes, so you’re forced to hold your nose for the lesser evil.

I threw my vote away on the libertarian candidate in the last election. He was a kook and there was no way he could win, but the alternatives were just unpalatable to me. I don’t know what the future holds for my kids, but I don’t see any viable alternatives to the current model - in the foreseeable future. There doesn’t appear to be any true fiscal conservatives left. We are going to eventually have to pay the bill. 50ish years from “the greatest generation” and now this? It’s gross.

I would propose to you that voting in Oklahoma as you do...where its electoral votes are effectively preordained as belonging to the Republicans...a vote for a third party candidate is the one option available to you that has real value at all.

Especially true given Oklahoma's restrictive ballot access rules. It helps keep the ballot open for future 3rd party candidates.

As for the rest, I am with you 100%. I'm pretty despondent about the state of American politics right now.

 

[OKSTATE1]

I don’t know how we got here. I’ve been absorbing as much nasa content as I can find and it’s given me a window into discourse and demeanor of the legislative branches during that period. How we’ve gone from that to this is just mind boggling. I think the vast majority of the population is really rather centrist, but there is just no option except the extremes, so you’re forced to hold your nose for the lesser evil.

I threw my vote away on the libertarian candidate in the last election. He was a kook and there was no way he could win, but the alternatives were just unpalatable to me. I don’t know what the future holds for my kids, but I don’t see any viable alternatives to the current model - in the foreseeable future. There doesn’t appear to be any true fiscal conservatives left. We are going to eventually have to pay the bill. 50ish years from “the greatest generation” and now this? It’s gross.

Approximately 15 years ago I stopped watching MSM and told anyone that would listen that this country was no different than Russia in terms of the propaganda we get from our media, only difference was, you had 2 different propaganda voices. People thought I was nuts but I remind them now all the time of my statement all those years ago, they no longer think I am nuts. I got my news from local news. So, I decided to watch the 2016 Presidential debates and I was re-introduced to MSM and I was SHOCKED how much worse it was.

MSM, Google, Faceboook, etc...is ENEMY number one, they are worse than the politicians now IMO. They offer no reporting of factual news and no longer leave it to the person viewing the news to form their own opinion. They take the "facts", hide them from you, process it, and deliver it to you in editorial think tank form sold as news. We are being brainwashed as a society. MSM has staged multiple events to create "news" and push their social agenda. MSM is now pushing this racist agenda which is splitting this country and it is not needed.

Remember the weather reporter faking the high winds and the couple leisurely walking behind him during a live broadcast? This is Exhibit A - If they are willing to lie to you about something so simple as the weather, WTH do you think they are doing when it comes to Politics?

The second level of brainwashing now occurs in our educational system, the liberals have over taken college campuses and no longer teach critical thinking and no longer accept all views. Professors now play god and teach the unwashed from their pulpit.

This is how we got here. You have to grow up with an ability to critically think for yourself in order to see thru the MSM and University (and now even Jr High and High School) BS.

Google slants algorithms for Dem positions and candidates. Twitter censures more conservative views than liberal.

We are in a literal political war, it is not being waged fairly. A fair and honest media that investigates and just reports the facts was our only safety net to keep Washington DC honest and allow the American public to vote on an informed basis. It is gone, and we have this younger generation that is compliant and believes anything that MSM whispers to them. There is an old saying, some people will believe anything if it is whispered to them.

I would say teach your kids to think for themselves, DO NOT believe anything that is "reported". Form your opinions on YOUR actual experiences, what YOU see, what you LEARN each day interacting and living in this Country. Just because some tells you something does not mean it is true, MSM and social media platforms, search engines, can not be trusted.

It is indeed depressing.

 

[aliabedi]

Approximately 15 years ago I stopped watching MSM and told anyone that would listen that this country was no different than Russia in terms of the propaganda we get from our media, only difference was, you had 2 different propaganda voices. People thought I was nuts but I remind them now all the time of my statement all those years ago, they no longer think I am nuts. I got my news from local news. So, I decided to watch the 2016 Presidential debates and I was re-introduced to MSM and I was SHOCKED how much worse it was.

MSM, Google, Faceboook, etc...is ENEMY number one, they are worse than the politicians now IMO. They offer no reporting of factual news and no longer leave it to the person viewing the news to form their own opinion. They take the "facts", hide them from you, process it, and deliver it to you in editorial think tank form sold as news. We are being brainwashed as a society. MSM has staged multiple events to create "news" and push their social agenda. MSM is now pushing this racist agenda which is splitting this country and it is not needed.

Remember the weather reporter faking the high winds and the couple leisurely walking behind him during a live broadcast? This is Exhibit A - If they are willing to lie to you about something so simple as the weather, WTH do you think they are doing when it comes to Politics?

The second level of brainwashing now occurs in our educational system, the liberals have over taken college campuses and no longer teach critical thinking and no longer accept all views. Professors now play god and teach the unwashed from their pulpit.

This is how we got here. You have to grow up with an ability to critically think for yourself in order to see thru the MSM and University (and now even Jr High and High School) BS.

Google slants algorithms for Dem positions and candidates. Twitter censures more conservative views than liberal.

We are in a literal political war, it is not being waged fairly. A fair and honest media that investigates and just reports the facts was our only safety net to keep Washington DC honest and allow the American public to vote on an informed basis. It is gone, and we have this younger generation that is compliant and believes anything that MSM whispers to them. There is an old saying, some people will believe anything if it is whispered to them.

I would say teach your kids to think for themselves, DO NOT believe anything that is "reported". Form your opinions on YOUR actual experiences, what YOU see, what you LEARN each day interacting and living in this Country. Just because some tells you something does not mean it is true, MSM and social media platforms, search engines, can not be trusted.

It is indeed depressing.

Do you accept all views.

 

[OKSTATE1]

Do you accept all views.

Accept? This country believes in free speech, I do not believe in stopping that. I do not agree with all views so I do not have to accept all views, I have a right to form my own opinions on my knowledge and experiences. No one has the right to force me to listen either. It is horrific that news platforms no longer tell people when they are now going in to editorial content and the position of the speaker does not necessarily reflect the position of that news organization, the media use to do that. It is total BS for news outlets to sell opinions as facts. How can any news station be neutral in reporting the news (facts) if it is blatantly and openly for certain candidates and against others? I am not compliant with MSM, I like to think for myself.

I do believe the educational system should teach from the facts, right now they are teaching social engineering and I believe that should be the domain of parents.

It is acceptable to agree to disagree.

 

[windriverrange]

As for the rest, I am with you 100%. I'm pretty despondent about the state of American politics right now.

JD really am on board with you and others about the state of politics, especially on the national level. There is too much money involved now and too many politicians more worried about being re-elected than doing the right thing for the country. IMHO it started by allowing senators being elected by a general election instead of the state legislatures. Given the current trajectory only two paths I see going forward. Either a states convention is held and a bevy of new amendments are promulgated or the US starts to Balkanize. There are simply too many special interest afloat to get much done in congress.

Hopefully the backside of this latest spectacle will be a look back at the mechanisms which started this investigation and the players that misrepresented facts, protected other politicians that have also committed egregious offenses or outright lied will get their due.

 

[aliabedi]

Accept? This country believes in free speech, I do not believe in stopping that. I do not agree with all views so I do not have to accept all views, I have a right to form my own opinions on my knowledge and experiences. No one has the right to force me to listen either. It is horrific that news platforms no longer tell people when they are now going in to editorial content and the position of the speaker does not necessarily reflect the position of that news organization, the media use to do that. It is total BS for news outlets to sell opinions as facts. How can any news station be neutral in reporting the news (facts) if it is blatantly and openly for certain candidates and against others? I am not compliant with MSM, I like to think for myself.

I do believe the educational system should teach from the facts, right now they are teaching social engineering and I believe that should be the domain of parents.

It is acceptable to agree to disagree.

I again agree with you I believe in free speech and try to listen to as many point of views as I possibly can. Then I decide what I want to agree with.or
believe in.
I like plain news and don't like opinions presented by tv I listen to them sometimes agree with some of it some times totally not.
As far as senators getting elected by state govts.that is the system we have in Pakistan it is very corrupt. it would be any where.
I have seen people getting elected senators in your country who do not belong to the ruling party of that state,I like your system better for democracy.

 

[Syskatine]

It appears to me that after today, there is absolutely nothing that can change the opinions of hardcore left supporters, we have about 4 on this board that appear to be in that group? Maybe 6 at the most that consistently post?

When Trump was elected, all of us that voted for Trump said if he committed a crime get him out, none of us said no investigation, I think the problem we had was that there was plenty of evidence to warrant a full blown investigation of Hillary and it never happened. We wanted equal treatment.

I wanted every Dem and Rep voted out in 2016.

So here we are, none of the supporters of Trump are going to change the minds of the few Libs on this board. There is nothing that is going to change the minds of Trump supporters based on where we are at today.

There is no real debate left, there is no listening with an open mind.

It seems the Libs have been reduced to trolling on this Board to simply piss on our parade and poke the bear.

At one time I think there was some serious exchange of opinions, but this board is as hardened in its opinions and views as the country.

I was a former Dem supporter when I was younger, became a Republican after Clinton’s first term. I was an independent that voted across both aisles.

For me, there is absolutely nothing the Dem party offers me today, nothing.

The people that post here probably 95% Trump supporters at this point?

So, what is the point of of the exchanges with the Dims on this Board at this point?

Nothing is going to change, it feels like a complete waste of time.

I feel like I would rather talk politics with fellow conservative Trump supporters and discuss how we can improve this country and how Trump and fellow conservatives can move this country forward.

The trolling Libs IMO should be ignored, name me one opinion that has been changed on this Board with thoughtful debate between the opposing viewpoints in the last 2 years?

I think the Libs would be happier finding a Board that shares their common opinions, opinions that will not and can not be changed, not with their hate for Trump.

In all honesty, who gives a shit what @Syskatine and the rest of the Lib squad on this board thinks when it comes to Trump? Same old crap for almost 3 years.

They are pissed Trump won, they hate Trump, they hate us for voting for him, we are the deplorables. They now openly call us racists? Why give people like that any respect, they deserve none.

Sucks for them the school they attended and it’s grads have a mostly conservative slant, I think many would like to see a more moderate form of governing, unfortunately the Dems are rolling out total POS candidates with policies more ridiculous than the wall Trump proposed.

I say stop taking the bait, the Libs troll and want to make you miserable, we simply are not at the point for people to be more open minded about their opinions. The more Dems wail and screach and MSM unfairly treats our President, the more it makes me support him. Obama and Hillary were given a fair shake. When the Dims can acccept Trump’s accomplishments, I might be more open minded to their criticism.

The only people I trust in terms of evaluating Trump fairly without hate in their mind for him is fellow Trump supporters. Lib and MSM criticism is so unfair it just moves me that more for Trump.

If today is not an opinion changer for some, it never will be. Time IMO to move on, let the Libs circle jerk about Russia and collusion until 2024, who cares anymore? They offer many of us nothing and nothing is changing in terms of opinions.

You want to take shots at people you disagree with and they just sit there and take it because... well, hell I can't figure out where this expectation comes from. Right wing media where nobody is ever there to fight back against the demagoguery? Nah. Reddit or twitter have environments where you're not challenged and libs don't fight back. Try those. .

And yes, let's take the same ideology that made Oklahoma's education system #48, has the highest incarceration rates in the country, the worst child welfare, awful nursing homes and less economic mobility by the day and overlay that over the federal government. Infrastructure.... when I take I-40 into OKC our D.O.T. takes YEARS to do what other states do in a fraction of the time. Highway contractors running the DOT like a third world country. On every level, we have shitty state government and you people want to export this ethos to the rest of the nation?

Hell let's remember the last time ya'll had total control -- ballooned the deficit. Look at it now! In '08 Bush left us with recession and ass deep in TWO wars. The GOP hasn't done anything on health care in a generation. Yes, let's blame libs for pointing this out. And now MAGA is here calling for people to be open minded, lol. Won't happen if the other side has any memory and sense at all. All the lies and gaslighting and incompetence is noticed and remembered.



.

 

[MegaPoke]

My recollection re: people saying “no investigation” is very different than yours.

I'm only quoting you on this part to say one thing - The rest of this post is about my thoughts on the state of debate on this board and shouldn't be construed as anything directed at you.

The one thing is this - I'm not sure what you recall about people saying no investigation or who falls into whatever variant reasoning there was for that, but speaking for myself and most likely many others... I was not on board for the investigation because: 1. special counsel investigations are unaccountable grandstanding circuses that waste time and money and divide the country when a legitimate investigative agency with DOJ oversight could do the job better. Starr was a clusterfvck disaster and so too was Mueller. 2. The entire premise was based on something I correctly recognized from day one as a clumsy political lie (collusion). I didn't want an investigation - not because of loyalty to Trump, but because the guy was elected and the investigation was nothing but resistance porn designed to overturn the will of the electorate.

Now on to broader stuff.

1. I voted for Trump and it was literally a game day decision. I share JD's view of voting 3rd party NOT being a wasted vote in OK. And I did not know before had the pen in my hand, which oval I was going to color - Johnson or Trump. In the end, I wanted my vote to be for someone who wasn't Hillary, rather than for a strategic voting law exercise. And honestly, Johnson was not good. Trump, if he had a chance to win at least could block Hillary and buy time. Maybe appoint judges from the list he had provided. Anything beyond that regarding the wall or the economy would be gravy. I definitely was NOT a Trump fan.

2. At that time, debates were more common on this board.

3. Immediately after Trump was elected, the fake-ass resistance began. Everyone in entertainment, everyone in the MSM and everyone on social media instantly began telling the world that Trump was a nazi and anyone who voted for him was a racist. and on and on and on we went. And then came the Russian Collusion lie, which from day one was nothing but an attempt to usurp power, stage a coup and overturn an election. That pissed me off to see, and it pissed me off to have people suddenly calling the guy I voted for (and by extension me) a nazi, taking every single possible quote out of context (rapists, murders, very fine people, animals, grab the pussy etc. etc. etc.) and flat out lying about what the man said or the context in which he said it. The guy was a hollywood insider. A new york liberal. And they turned on him on a dime and followed orders to destroy him.

4. My whole adult life I've been a PROUD libertarian. I hate establishment republicans. I hate establishment democrats. Not individuals, but as a whole. To me, once I saw the establishment republicans lining up against this guy AND the leftist scum and their nerdy-resistance turn up the propaganda to 11, I felt this guy had something going on and I constantly was put in the position of defending him against baseless attacks and lies. By doing so, I was labeled Trumpet, Trumpeter, Trumpster, etc. right up into recent months where at least three posters on this board accused me of worshipping the man as a God.

5. I am a Constitutionalist. Trump appoints Constitutionalists. I am a business owner. Trump had magic-handed the economy, stock market and job market. That's good for my ability to put food on my family's table. I am a proud American who is absolutely 100% behind any America first priority. I am a Western Culture supremacist because by comparison, every other culture is not as good. It's just not. So it's safe to say Trump earned my respect by keeping promises and sticking to his Make America Great Again agenda. Watching that slogan and hat become synonymous with a swastika has done nothing but make me want to expose the stupidity of that kind of thinking. Covington Kids, Nike Betsey Ross shoes etc.

6. Nobody elected Trump as Sunday School teacher. We knew he was a philandering playboy with a big mouth and a massive ego. But he can take a punch and survive. Between that and the numbers he's put up, I no longer am going to be holding my nose when I vote for his re-election. It was the right vote, and I'll do it again.

Now having said all that - the point is, I am not a republican. I am not a day 1 Trump supporter. I am not a conservative by the traditional definitions. I am a Constitutionalist. But for the purposes of this board, I am just another conservative as most who post here are - to the leftists. That's what debate has become here.

3 years ago there was debate on this board. Now, there is @knoblock @Been Jammin @SMemmett @osu_orangestreak who you can talk to and debate with. I would describe them all as left center to liberal but not "leftists."

It's usually fun to go back and forth with @Syskatine but the truth is that "debating" with him and other guys here usually only serves two purposes now. Guilty pleasure - because I've been spot on about collusion and I like to remind them of every single failure in that regard. But also as a way of killing leftist ideas through mockery for 3rd parties to read. That's the only debate value of being here anymore. How do you debate with a guy who thinks Liberty is often bad? Where's the common ground?

People - myself included - tend to get information from places that reinforce their own confirmation bias. As the culture war has heated up, debate in general has suffered. Speaking only for myself, I would love some open ended debate. Just this week, syskatine of all people and I were on the same side of a health insurance debate. It's possible. But in the absence of debate, I am PERFECTLY happy to rub the noses of posters who bought the collusion lie in their own shit. It's a public service.

 

[CowboyJD]

“I'm only quoting you on this part to say one thing - The rest of this post is about my thoughts on the state of debate on this board and shouldn't be construed as anything directed at you.

The one thing is this - I'm not sure what you recall about people saying no investigation or who falls into whatever variant reasoning there was for that, but speaking for myself and most likely many others... I was not on board for the investigation because: 1. special counsel investigations are unaccountable grandstanding circuses that waste time and money and divide the country when a legitimate investigative agency with DOJ oversight could do the job better. Starr was a clusterfvck disaster and so too was Mueller. 2. The entire premise was based on something I correctly recognized from day one as a clumsy political lie (collusion). I didn't want an investigation - not because of loyalty to Trump, but because the guy was elected and the investigation was nothing but resistance porn designed to overturn the will of the electorate. “

What I certainly don’t recall is “none of us [Trump voters] saying no investigation. There were plenty of “no investigationers” here. I wasn’t commenting on or criticizing your or anyone’s reasoning for saying no investigation by that statement. I was merely responding to the no Trump supports were saying no investigation claim....which was wildly inaccurate.

 

[Rdcldad]

I'm only quoting you on this part to say one thing - The rest of this post is about my thoughts on the state of debate on this board and shouldn't be construed as anything directed at you.

The one thing is this - I'm not sure what you recall about people saying no investigation or who falls into whatever variant reasoning there was for that, but speaking for myself and most likely many others... I was not on board for the investigation because: 1. special counsel investigations are unaccountable grandstanding circuses that waste time and money and divide the country when a legitimate investigative agency with DOJ oversight could do the job better. Starr was a clusterfvck disaster and so too was Mueller. 2. The entire premise was based on something I correctly recognized from day one as a clumsy political lie (collusion). I didn't want an investigation - not because of loyalty to Trump, but because the guy was elected and the investigation was nothing but resistance porn designed to overturn the will of the electorate.

Now on to broader stuff.

1. I voted for Trump and it was literally a game day decision. I share JD's view of voting 3rd party NOT being a wasted vote in OK. And I did not know before had the pen in my hand, which oval I was going to color - Johnson or Trump. In the end, I wanted my vote to be for someone who wasn't Hillary, rather than for a strategic voting law exercise. And honestly, Johnson was not good. Trump, if he had a chance to win at least could block Hillary and buy time. Maybe appoint judges from the list he had provided. Anything beyond that regarding the wall or the economy would be gravy. I definitely was NOT a Trump fan.

2. At that time, debates were more common on this board.

3. Immediately after Trump was elected, the fake-ass resistance began. Everyone in entertainment, everyone in the MSM and everyone on social media instantly began telling the world that Trump was a nazi and anyone who voted for him was a racist. and on and on and on we went. And then came the Russian Collusion lie, which from day one was nothing but an attempt to usurp power, stage a coup and overturn an election. That pissed me off to see, and it pissed me off to have people suddenly calling the guy I voted for (and by extension me) a nazi, taking every single possible quote out of context (rapists, murders, very fine people, animals, grab the pussy etc. etc. etc.) and flat out lying about what the man said or the context in which he said it. The guy was a hollywood insider. A new york liberal. And they turned on him on a dime and followed orders to destroy him.

4. My whole adult life I've been a PROUD libertarian. I hate establishment republicans. I hate establishment democrats. Not individuals, but as a whole. To me, once I saw the establishment republicans lining up against this guy AND the leftist scum and their nerdy-resistance turn up the propaganda to 11, I felt this guy had something going on and I constantly was put in the position of defending him against baseless attacks and lies. By doing so, I was labeled Trumpet, Trumpeter, Trumpster, etc. right up into recent months where at least three posters on this board accused me of worshipping the man as a God.

5. I am a Constitutionalist. Trump appoints Constitutionalists. I am a business owner. Trump had magic-handed the economy, stock market and job market. That's good for my ability to put food on my family's table. I am a proud American who is absolutely 100% behind any America first priority. I am a Western Culture supremacist because by comparison, every other culture is not as good. It's just not. So it's safe to say Trump earned my respect by keeping promises and sticking to his Make America Great Again agenda. Watching that slogan and hat become synonymous with a swastika has done nothing but make me want to expose the stupidity of that kind of thinking. Covington Kids, Nike Betsey Ross shoes etc.

6. Nobody elected Trump as Sunday School teacher. We knew he was a philandering playboy with a big mouth and a massive ego. But he can take a punch and survive. Between that and the numbers he's put up, I no longer am going to be holding my nose when I vote for his re-election. It was the right vote, and I'll do it again.

Now having said all that - the point is, I am not a republican. I am not a day 1 Trump supporter. I am not a conservative by the traditional definitions. I am a Constitutionalist. But for the purposes of this board, I am just another conservative as most who post here are - to the leftists. That's what debate has become here.

3 years ago there was debate on this board. Now, there is @knoblock @Been Jammin @SMemmett @osu_orangestreak who you can talk to and debate with. I would describe them all as left center to liberal but not "leftists."

It's usually fun to go back and forth with @Syskatine but the truth is that "debating" with him and other guys here usually only serves two purposes now. Guilty pleasure - because I've been spot on about collusion and I like to remind them of every single failure in that regard. But also as a way of killing leftist ideas through mockery for 3rd parties to read. That's the only debate value of being here anymore. How do you debate with a guy who thinks Liberty is often bad? Where's the common ground?

People - myself included - tend to get information from places that reinforce their own confirmation bias. As the culture war has heated up, debate in general has suffered. Speaking only for myself, I would love some open ended debate. Just this week, syskatine of all people and I were on the same side of a health insurance debate. It's possible. But in the absence of debate, I am PERFECTLY happy to rub the noses of posters who bought the collusion lie in their own shit. It's a public service.

bravo

 

[OKSTATE1]

I'm only quoting you on this part to say one thing - The rest of this post is about my thoughts on the state of debate on this board and shouldn't be construed as anything directed at you.

The one thing is this - I'm not sure what you recall about people saying no investigation or who falls into whatever variant reasoning there was for that, but speaking for myself and most likely many others... I was not on board for the investigation because: 1. special counsel investigations are unaccountable grandstanding circuses that waste time and money and divide the country when a legitimate investigative agency with DOJ oversight could do the job better. Starr was a clusterfvck disaster and so too was Mueller. 2. The entire premise was based on something I correctly recognized from day one as a clumsy political lie (collusion). I didn't want an investigation - not because of loyalty to Trump, but because the guy was elected and the investigation was nothing but resistance porn designed to overturn the will of the electorate.

Now on to broader stuff.

1. I voted for Trump and it was literally a game day decision. I share JD's view of voting 3rd party NOT being a wasted vote in OK. And I did not know before had the pen in my hand, which oval I was going to color - Johnson or Trump. In the end, I wanted my vote to be for someone who wasn't Hillary, rather than for a strategic voting law exercise. And honestly, Johnson was not good. Trump, if he had a chance to win at least could block Hillary and buy time. Maybe appoint judges from the list he had provided. Anything beyond that regarding the wall or the economy would be gravy. I definitely was NOT a Trump fan.

2. At that time, debates were more common on this board.

3. Immediately after Trump was elected, the fake-ass resistance began. Everyone in entertainment, everyone in the MSM and everyone on social media instantly began telling the world that Trump was a nazi and anyone who voted for him was a racist. and on and on and on we went. And then came the Russian Collusion lie, which from day one was nothing but an attempt to usurp power, stage a coup and overturn an election. That pissed me off to see, and it pissed me off to have people suddenly calling the guy I voted for (and by extension me) a nazi, taking every single possible quote out of context (rapists, murders, very fine people, animals, grab the pussy etc. etc. etc.) and flat out lying about what the man said or the context in which he said it. The guy was a hollywood insider. A new york liberal. And they turned on him on a dime and followed orders to destroy him.

4. My whole adult life I've been a PROUD libertarian. I hate establishment republicans. I hate establishment democrats. Not individuals, but as a whole. To me, once I saw the establishment republicans lining up against this guy AND the leftist scum and their nerdy-resistance turn up the propaganda to 11, I felt this guy had something going on and I constantly was put in the position of defending him against baseless attacks and lies. By doing so, I was labeled Trumpet, Trumpeter, Trumpster, etc. right up into recent months where at least three posters on this board accused me of worshipping the man as a God.

5. I am a Constitutionalist. Trump appoints Constitutionalists. I am a business owner. Trump had magic-handed the economy, stock market and job market. That's good for my ability to put food on my family's table. I am a proud American who is absolutely 100% behind any America first priority. I am a Western Culture supremacist because by comparison, every other culture is not as good. It's just not. So it's safe to say Trump earned my respect by keeping promises and sticking to his Make America Great Again agenda. Watching that slogan and hat become synonymous with a swastika has done nothing but make me want to expose the stupidity of that kind of thinking. Covington Kids, Nike Betsey Ross shoes etc.

6. Nobody elected Trump as Sunday School teacher. We knew he was a philandering playboy with a big mouth and a massive ego. But he can take a punch and survive. Between that and the numbers he's put up, I no longer am going to be holding my nose when I vote for his re-election. It was the right vote, and I'll do it again.

Now having said all that - the point is, I am not a republican. I am not a day 1 Trump supporter. I am not a conservative by the traditional definitions. I am a Constitutionalist. But for the purposes of this board, I am just another conservative as most who post here are - to the leftists. That's what debate has become here.

3 years ago there was debate on this board. Now, there is @knoblock @Been Jammin @SMemmett @osu_orangestreak who you can talk to and debate with. I would describe them all as left center to liberal but not "leftists."

It's usually fun to go back and forth with @Syskatine but the truth is that "debating" with him and other guys here usually only serves two purposes now. Guilty pleasure - because I've been spot on about collusion and I like to remind them of every single failure in that regard. But also as a way of killing leftist ideas through mockery for 3rd parties to read. That's the only debate value of being here anymore. How do you debate with a guy who thinks Liberty is often bad? Where's the common ground?

People - myself included - tend to get information from places that reinforce their own confirmation bias. As the culture war has heated up, debate in general has suffered. Speaking only for myself, I would love some open ended debate. Just this week, syskatine of all people and I were on the same side of a health insurance debate. It's possible. But in the absence of debate, I am PERFECTLY happy to rub the noses of posters who bought the collusion lie in their own shit. It's a public service.

Good thoughts.

I would add that I was for investigating BOTH Trump and Hillary and let the chips fall were they may. Similar "cause" seemed to exist to investigate Hillary based on the "cause" they used to investigate Trump. I remember joking investigate both and maybe they both end up in adjoining cells. I was never afraid of a Trump investigation and would have been perfectly happy with a fair and impartial investigation of both Trump and Hillary. The problem I had initially with the Trump investigation was not the investigation itself or its potential outcome, it was the fact the investigation was obviously being used as political tool absent a corresponding investigation of Hillary based on similar "cause" for an investigation of both. This was one sided, there was no fairness. There was no equal justice, there was no equal consideration of the cause needed to start an investigation for both individuals.

They should have both been impartially investigated based on similar cause, or neither should have been investigated. That simple for me.

In hindsight, it is obvious now what was playing out, and it is disgusting, the worst political crimes in the history of our Nation, with the only exception being assassinations. This was an attempted political assassination.

 

[CowboyJD]

I'm only quoting you on this part to say one thing - The rest of this post is about my thoughts on the state of debate on this board and shouldn't be construed as anything directed at you.

The one thing is this - I'm not sure what you recall about people saying no investigation or who falls into whatever variant reasoning there was for that, but speaking for myself and most likely many others... I was not on board for the investigation because: 1. special counsel investigations are unaccountable grandstanding circuses that waste time and money and divide the country when a legitimate investigative agency with DOJ oversight could do the job better. Starr was a clusterfvck disaster and so too was Mueller. 2. The entire premise was based on something I correctly recognized from day one as a clumsy political lie (collusion). I didn't want an investigation - not because of loyalty to Trump, but because the guy was elected and the investigation was nothing but resistance porn designed to overturn the will of the electorate.

Now on to broader stuff.

1. I voted for Trump and it was literally a game day decision. I share JD's view of voting 3rd party NOT being a wasted vote in OK. And I did not know before had the pen in my hand, which oval I was going to color - Johnson or Trump. In the end, I wanted my vote to be for someone who wasn't Hillary, rather than for a strategic voting law exercise. And honestly, Johnson was not good. Trump, if he had a chance to win at least could block Hillary and buy time. Maybe appoint judges from the list he had provided. Anything beyond that regarding the wall or the economy would be gravy. I definitely was NOT a Trump fan.

2. At that time, debates were more common on this board.

3. Immediately after Trump was elected, the fake-ass resistance began. Everyone in entertainment, everyone in the MSM and everyone on social media instantly began telling the world that Trump was a nazi and anyone who voted for him was a racist. and on and on and on we went. And then came the Russian Collusion lie, which from day one was nothing but an attempt to usurp power, stage a coup and overturn an election. That pissed me off to see, and it pissed me off to have people suddenly calling the guy I voted for (and by extension me) a nazi, taking every single possible quote out of context (rapists, murders, very fine people, animals, grab the pussy etc. etc. etc.) and flat out lying about what the man said or the context in which he said it. The guy was a hollywood insider. A new york liberal. And they turned on him on a dime and followed orders to destroy him.

4. My whole adult life I've been a PROUD libertarian. I hate establishment republicans. I hate establishment democrats. Not individuals, but as a whole. To me, once I saw the establishment republicans lining up against this guy AND the leftist scum and their nerdy-resistance turn up the propaganda to 11, I felt this guy had something going on and I constantly was put in the position of defending him against baseless attacks and lies. By doing so, I was labeled Trumpet, Trumpeter, Trumpster, etc. right up into recent months where at least three posters on this board accused me of worshipping the man as a God.

5. I am a Constitutionalist. Trump appoints Constitutionalists. I am a business owner. Trump had magic-handed the economy, stock market and job market. That's good for my ability to put food on my family's table. I am a proud American who is absolutely 100% behind any America first priority. I am a Western Culture supremacist because by comparison, every other culture is not as good. It's just not. So it's safe to say Trump earned my respect by keeping promises and sticking to his Make America Great Again agenda. Watching that slogan and hat become synonymous with a swastika has done nothing but make me want to expose the stupidity of that kind of thinking. Covington Kids, Nike Betsey Ross shoes etc.

6. Nobody elected Trump as Sunday School teacher. We knew he was a philandering playboy with a big mouth and a massive ego. But he can take a punch and survive. Between that and the numbers he's put up, I no longer am going to be holding my nose when I vote for his re-election. It was the right vote, and I'll do it again.

Now having said all that - the point is, I am not a republican. I am not a day 1 Trump supporter. I am not a conservative by the traditional definitions. I am a Constitutionalist. But for the purposes of this board, I am just another conservative as most who post here are - to the leftists. That's what debate has become here.

3 years ago there was debate on this board. Now, there is @knoblock @Been Jammin @SMemmett @osu_orangestreak who you can talk to and debate with. I would describe them all as left center to liberal but not "leftists."

It's usually fun to go back and forth with @Syskatine but the truth is that "debating" with him and other guys here usually only serves two purposes now. Guilty pleasure - because I've been spot on about collusion and I like to remind them of every single failure in that regard. But also as a way of killing leftist ideas through mockery for 3rd parties to read. That's the only debate value of being here anymore. How do you debate with a guy who thinks Liberty is often bad? Where's the common ground?

People - myself included - tend to get information from places that reinforce their own confirmation bias. As the culture war has heated up, debate in general has suffered. Speaking only for myself, I would love some open ended debate. Just this week, syskatine of all people and I were on the same side of a health insurance debate. It's possible. But in the absence of debate, I am PERFECTLY happy to rub the noses of posters who bought the collusion lie in their own shit. It's a public service.

My name is CowboyJD, and I approve this message.

The primary reason for my extended vacations from this board recently probably is that I’ve lost the guilty pleasure aspect of posting here. For me...and not commenting regarding anyone else who has a different view...that’s just not fun to me anymore.

 

[Pokeabear]

Therapy (Lunch) Hour is fascinating around here.

 

[CowboyJD]

Lunch is over.

Back to work for me!

Later fellas.

 

[Been Jammin]

That's why I've put those 6 or so you talk about on ignore. I don't ignore them because their views differ from mine. Hell, I'd love to really debate people who disagree with me on items. But they aren't here for that.

I don't think you have me on ignore. (unless the status changed recently). I'm just curious. Are there 6 leftists/libs, other than me, around here? I can think of 3 or 4 that I could see you choosing to put on ignore. More than that seems extreme, unless I am forgetting some posters.

 

[Pokeabear]

I don't think you have me on ignore. (unless the status changed recently). I'm just curious. Are there 6 leftists/libs, other than me, around here? I can think of 3 or 4 that I could see you choosing to put on ignore. More than that seems extreme, unless I am forgetting some posters.

Him and OState mostly just mean me but don’t have the balls to tag anyone. It’s cute. Those others don’t post enough to be worth ignoring. Reality was starting to bleed into one of their last safe spaces.

 

[Cowguy]

You want to take shots at people you disagree with and they just sit there and take it because... well, hell I can't figure out where this expectation comes from. Right wing media where nobody is ever there to fight back against the demagoguery? Nah. Reddit or twitter have environments where you're not challenged and libs don't fight back. Try those. .

And yes, let's take the same ideology that made Oklahoma's education system #48, has the highest incarceration rates in the country, the worst child welfare, awful nursing homes and less economic mobility by the day and overlay that over the federal government. Infrastructure.... when I take I-40 into OKC our D.O.T. takes YEARS to do what other states do in a fraction of the time. Highway contractors running the DOT like a third world country. On every level, we have shitty state government and you people want to export this ethos to the rest of the nation?

Hell let's remember the last time ya'll had total control -- ballooned the deficit. Look at it now! In '08 Bush left us with recession and ass deep in TWO wars. The GOP hasn't done anything on health care in a generation. Yes, let's blame libs for pointing this out. And now MAGA is here calling for people to be open minded, lol. Won't happen if the other side has any memory and sense at all. All the lies and gaslighting and incompetence is noticed and remembered.



.

I don’t think you understand what gaslighting means.

And yeah. Let’s be more like California. That’ll show us.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Him and OState mostly just mean me but don’t have the balls to tag anyone. It’s cute.

You add literally nothing substantive to this board.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I don't think you have me on ignore. (unless the status changed recently). I'm just curious. Are there 6 leftists/libs, other than me, around here? I can think of 3 or 4 that I could see you choosing to put on ignore. More than that seems extreme, unless I am forgetting some posters.

Pilt
Toon in all his reincarnations
Syskatine
Pokebear

I also have NZ and Roberto on ignore as obvious trolls.

 

[Pokeabear]

You add literally nothing substantive to this board.

Ditto

 

[AC_Exotic]

Ditto

I think there are a ton of people that disagree with your assessment you miserable little puke.

 

[Been Jammin]

So here we are, none of the supporters of Trump are going to change the minds of the few Libs on this board. There is nothing that is going to change the minds of Trump supporters based on where we are at today.

There is no real debate left, there is no listening with an open mind.

This is why I mostly stay away these days. Total waste of time. Part of the issue is a recent infusion of Sooners. Not that I have anything against them, but I don't know them, whereas I feel like I have known most of the regular OSU posters for years. The Sooner migration not only tilted the numbers even further to the right, but it caused a sudden increase in number of posters who don't stand out as being more than just a random user name. It's not as fun as arguing with a guy that you have some kind of history with. Kind of like the difference between getting on a bus and sitting next to some guy you've never met vs. sitting next to a guy you've known since high school.

 

[Pokeabear]

I think there are a ton of people that disagree with your assessment you miserable little puke.

Non of any import and if they were, I wouldn’t care. I don’t find my social worth via sports message forums.

 

[Been Jammin]

Pilt
Toon in all his reincarnations
Syskatine
Pokebear

I also have NZ and Roberto on ignore as obvious trolls.

Makes sense. The top 4 were the only ones I could imagine you putting on ignore. I applaud you for including the other 2 losers.

 

[Pokeabear]

Makes sense. The top 4 were the only ones I could imagine you putting on ignore. I applaud you for including the other 2 losers.

Hey now, we’re all losers in the eyes of god.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Makes sense. The top 4 were the only ones I could imagine you putting on ignore. I applaud you for including the other 2 losers.

I have a few others like Epacy, GL97, ClarkGeo, and CowboyUp. But I just don't like them. The corral is much better reading with their posts omitted.

 

[Syskatine]

The "lack of serious debate" points are mind boggling. Was there some golden age on here when libs weren't massively outnumbered and constantly attacked?

 

[MegaPoke]

I came across this this morning. I can't think of a better explanation for how a reluctant Trump voter becomes a Trump 2020 advocate than this kind of lying hyperbolic stupidity. Truth if for people this far gone, there's no debating. It's a matter of defeating these kind of ideas through ridicule, mockery and of course, dank memes.

 

[Syskatine]

I came across this this morning. I can't think of a better explanation for how a reluctant Trump voter becomes a Trump 2020 advocate than this kind of lying hyperbolic stupidity. Truth if for people this far gone, there's no debating. It's a matter of defeating these kind of ideas through ridicule, mockery and of course, dank memes.

View embedded media

Hey I get it. I wasn't wild about either of the last 2 dem 2 termers but the right was so crazy and awful it pushed me to them. I was simultaneously pissed at obama AND defending him from all the hateful obsessive shit.

 

[Rdcldad]

Pilt
Toon in all his reincarnations
Syskatine
Pokebear

I also have NZ and Roberto on ignore as obvious trolls.

same same