ADVERTISEMENT

italy

I get what you two are saying, but I just don't agree with that approach.

First we lost 149 and still won the dual. And I don't think the travel and competing at Midlands would have jeopardized the 149 match. Wyoming was 12/19, Midlands was 12/29-30 and the team flew to Italy on 12/31. Heck, they went sight seeing for 4 days before the NC St. dual. To me, Midlands was a great opportunity to gauge Boo and Geo against multiple top guys and not just a specific matchup.

I also get the looking over your shoulder approach to see who is warming up in the bullpen. But I don't want to see that dragged out too long. At some point you pick your horse and stick with him. Finally I'm concerned we had a poster join just to mention chess games and then we find out Boo was flown out to join the team mid trip in Wyoming and didn't wrestle and Geo was flown to Italy and didn't even weigh in.

Hopefully the coaches are being clear with both of them about expectations and what they need to do to win the spot.
 
Last edited:
North Carolina State had moved up to #3 in some polls, we won proving we still deserve to be in the top three. Sure we will have tough matches coming up with Iowa and Missouri to decide who is one of the top dual teams the nation. I still think we will be getting another trophy in Cleveland in March. No complaints on our program here.
 
Mrgrapple said:
North Carolina State had moved up to #3 in some polls, we won proving we still deserve to be in the top three. Sure we will have tough matches coming up with Iowa and Missouri to decide who is one of the top dual teams the nation. I still think we will be getting another trophy in Cleveland in March. No complaints on our program here.
Click to expand...

I still see improvement coming across the board for our guys. The last several years we have seen the same trend. Jon pushes our guys maybe a little different and causes some early season angst and then gets them at or near their peak come March.

We have top 3 threats at 125, 133, 141, 165 and 197 IMO. I think White could be the surprise of the team this year and has looked fantastic so far. Smith and Boo should also continue to improve. All is not lost!
 
Last edited:
Some other observations on the match itself...

125: Picc can get to a lock on anyone's leg it seems. Can he finish against the strong guys (Nato, Suriano), the long scrambly guys (Lizak, Fausz) and the slick counter guys (Cruz)? That will be the key in a suddenly deep weight class now with Spencer Lee, Sebastian Riveria and Bressler. I'm betting yes and still see him as a major title threat.
141: I'm a little concerned because Jack actually got a takedown unlike Meredith who did not. I think Dean wins the title but he will have to be wrestling his best at nationals in a super close field. Hoping history repeats itself when Dean lost to Jack in the 2015 dual but then beat him at NCAAs.
184: Keegan wrestled a very conservative match and kept it close with an extremely tough Renda. That's not what I hoped to see in the first match of the dual. I would understand if it was the last match and the outcome was on the line. I'd rather see the Nolan Boyd approach against Gabe Dean, when he kept attacking only to be countered. I think Keegan needs to trust his athleticism and just let it fly. I know, easier said than done.
197: How about that low single by Preston? If his neutral offense improves even just a little, look out. It won't matter when guys choose neutral (and they definitely will come nationals).
 
  • Like
Reactions: osu2082
Wrassler17 said:
Some other observations on the match itself...

125: Picc can get to a lock on anyone's leg it seems. Can he finish against the strong guys (Nato, Suriano), the long scrambly guys (Lizak, Fausz) and the slick counter guys (Cruz)? That will be the key in a suddenly deep weight class now with Spencer Lee, Sebastian Riveria and Bressler. I'm betting yes and still see him as a major title threat.
141: I'm a little concerned because Jack actually got a takedown unlike Meredith who did not. I think Dean wins the title but he will have to be wrestling his best at nationals in a super close field. Hoping history repeats itself when Dean lost to Jack in the 2015 dual but then beat him at NCAAs.
184: Keegan wrestled a very conservative match and kept it close with an extremely tough Renda. That's not what I hoped to see in the first match of the dual. I would understand if it was the last match and the outcome was on the line. I'd rather see the Nolan Boyd approach against Gabe Dean, when he kept attacking only to be countered. I think Keegan needs to trust his athleticism and just let it fly. I know, easier said than done.
197: How about that low single by Preston? If his neutral offense improves even just a little, look out. It won't matter when guys choose neutral (and they definitely will come nationals).
Click to expand...
I rewatched the Heil match and he did not have 1 good shot. I think he has become complacent and just depends on his hang over an opponents back and grab a foot defense. His reaction to shots seems slow just like his shots. I also don't like how he quit trying as soon as Jack got that takedown. He seems to be struggling mentally which is bad because he depends on a razor thin advantage with good wrestlers. When he took over as a starter one of the first things I noticed about him once he got on your legs he would make decision upon good decision and methodically get control and get the takedown. I hope he progresses past where he is now.
 
Picc has shown he can beat Cruz already just seems like he has a tough time with guys who can scramble just like last year. I did see an interview with the strength and conditioning coach for OSU and it sounds like he’s still not the biggest 125 because they had him on their lifting program from the end of the season all the way until he had to start getting ready to make 125 this season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: osu2082
Picc may have beaten Cruz, but for those that didn't see the match, he did not finish a takedown against him. In the first period, he got a lock on a leg, just like he did against Gilman, Suriano, and Faucz. When he went to lift it, Cruz did a perfectly timed knee pick counter to get the takedown himself. Later in the first, Picc got to a leg again and Cruz simply grabbed an ankle to stop it. Picc only won because he countered a cradle in the second period for 6 points. I still think Picc is capable of winning if they meet again, but Cruz is wrestling well right now and there's no way he tries that foolish cradle again.
 
Wrassler17 said:
I get what you two are saying, but I just don't agree with that approach.

First we lost 149 and still won the dual. And I don't think the travel and competing at Midlands would have jeopardized the 149 match. Wyoming was 12/19, Midlands was 12/29-30 and the team flew to Italy on 12/31. Heck, they went sight seeing for 4 days before the NC St. dual. To me, Midlands was a great opportunity to gauge Boo and Geo against multiple top guys and not just a specific matchup.

I also get the looking over your shoulder approach to see who is warming up in the bullpen. But I don't want to see that dragged out too long. At some point you pick your horse and stick with him. Finally I'm concerned we had a poster join just to mention chess games and then we find out Boo was flown out to join the team mid trip in Wyoming and didn't wrestle and Geo was flown to Italy and didn't even weigh in.

Hopefully the coaches are being clear with both of them about expectations and what they need to do to win the spot.
Click to expand...

Well first, they would not have been able to get into Midlands. But lets say they could and get dinged up or just not 100% from the tight schedule etc. who is the #3 guy that would've gone to Italy and could he have lost by more?
 
Wrassler17 said:
Picc may have beaten Cruz, but for those that didn't see the match, he did not finish a takedown against him. In the first period, he got a lock on a leg, just like he did against Gilman, Suriano, and Faucz. When he went to lift it, Cruz did a perfectly timed knee pick counter to get the takedown himself. Later in the first, Picc got to a leg again and Cruz simply grabbed an ankle to stop it. Picc only won because he countered a cradle in the second period for 6 points. I still think Picc is capable of winning if they meet again, but Cruz is wrestling well right now and there's no way he tries that foolish cradle again.
Click to expand...

Very true. What I have seen from Picc to make me think he is still in a group of about 5-6 guys who can win 125 which has turned into a wide open tough weight with a bunch of high end guys is the improvement in two areas specifically.

He still struggles at times finishing shots but has shown improvement there which was evidenced in the Lizak match. He has also improved his top game and is consistently dangerous from that position.

I think you will see some chaos at 125 at nationals.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NYWRESTLER94
ionel said:
Well first, they would not have been able to get into Midlands. But lets say they could and get dinged up or just not 100% from the tight schedule etc. who is the #3 guy that would've gone to Italy and could he have lost by more?
Click to expand...

Tristan Moran lost to Donahue 7-2 at Reno. Actually that match was somewhat similar to Boo's match with Donahue. It looked like Tristan would be able to get the takedown a couple of times but Donahue was able to fight it off.

Also, I'm not sure why Boo & Geo wouldn't be allowed to compete at Midlands. Several unattached guys do every year. My understanding is that there is a limit on the number of unattached competitors accepted, but if you apply early enough then it shouldn't be a problem.
 
osu2082 said:
Very true. What I have seen from Picc to make me think he is still in a group of about 5-6 guys who can win 125 which has turned into a wide open tough weight with a bunch of high end guys is the improvement in two areas specifically.

He still struggles at times finishing shots but has shown improvement there which was evidenced in the Lizak match. He has also improved his top game and is consistently dangerous from that position.

I think you will see some chaos at 125 at nationals.
Click to expand...

I agree and I would add that Picc has also shown some signs of improvement on bottom. Granted, not in that 2nd period against Lizak. But Cruz is very tough on top also and Picc got out after he was taken down in the first period. Cruz might have rode for almost a minute, but Picc was very active underneath and Cruz was basically crawling out of bounds with him. It was far from a dominating ride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: osu2082
Wrassler17 said:
Also, I'm not sure why Boo & Geo wouldn't be allowed to compete at Midlands. Several unattached guys do every year. My understanding is that there is a limit on the number of unattached competitors accepted, but if you apply early enough then it shouldn't be a problem.
Click to expand...

Well first as said they probably wouldn't have known they wanted to do this early enough to get application in. But even if they did, Midlands has been picky about who they let in. Teams that have wrestled there a lot tend to get a larger allotment. Some teams (at least in past been this way) accepted but not allowed to bring everyone. Believe M Hall tried to get in last year (may have been late) but also Midlands prob not happy with PSU cause they switched to the Scuffle.

Midlands doesn't see themselves as a "ranking tournament" and OSU last participate when, and they've been going to the Scuffle (competition) for how many years? Sure if the whole team planned to attend they might get an allocation that would allow 2 guys at a couple weight classes, but they are not going to just take 2 guys at the same weight class. If say Dieringer wanted to get in as a post grad, they'd probably accept him (or maybe even if Fix had applied early with Midlands knowing good chance Lee would compete) they like to see guys like that compete
 
ionel said:
Well first as said they probably wouldn't have known they wanted to do this early enough to get application in. But even if they did, Midlands has been picky about who they let in. Teams that have wrestled there a lot tend to get a larger allotment. Some teams (at least in past been this way) accepted but not allowed to bring everyone. Believe M Hall tried to get in last year (may have been late) but also Midlands prob not happy with PSU cause they switched to the Scuffle.

Midlands doesn't see themselves as a "ranking tournament" and OSU last participate when, and they've been going to the Scuffle (competition) for how many years? Sure if the whole team planned to attend they might get an allocation that would allow 2 guys at a couple weight classes, but they are not going to just take 2 guys at the same weight class. If say Dieringer wanted to get in as a post grad, they'd probably accept him (or maybe even if Fix had applied early with Midlands knowing good chance Lee would compete) they like to see guys like that compete
Click to expand...

Mark Hall was rejected by the Midlands because he applied too late (supposedly), so he registered for the Scuffle instead. Myles Martin is a better example. Last year he wrestled at the Midlands. He wasn't redshirting and he wasn't part of the Ohio State team competing there. In fact, tOSU had no recent affiliation with the Midlands since they normally compete at the Cliff Keen Invite. Martin competed there because he wanted to get matches in at 184 to gauge himself against the competition (after being at 174 the year before). Was he accepted because he was a defending champ? Maybe. Maybe Midlands is looking for that "prestigious" factor, I don't really know.

But none of that is really my main point, which is how do you best determine a starter - ranking matches, how someone looks in a particular matchup, or against common opponents in a tournament setting? I think it's the last one. If Boo & Geo got rejected by the Midlands, fine send them to the Scuffle and send Tristan to Italy. March matters, not January. Just my opinion. Some will disagree, like you. And our coaches obviously. That's fine too.
 
Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.
 
Old Number Nine said:
Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.
Click to expand...

Or he could just continuing using what ever short hand he wants for Ohio State because its not that big of deal. That is another option.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wrassler17
Old Number Nine said:
Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.
Click to expand...

Wow, sorry you feel that way.

Curious if others on the board feel the same. I think that might have been the first time I've used 'tOSU' in a post. If I have before, it's because I was too lazy to type out 'Ohio State'. Certainly don't mean to offend anyone.

And to Old Number Nine, thanks for the suggestion that I take my posting habits elsewhere. I've got an idea for you as well. You say you haven't read enough of my posts to know which team I am a fan of. Feel free to not read any of my posts. Skip them all and you won't get so irritated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: osuind, NYWRESTLER94, birdman1117 and 1 other person
Most over all the boards use OSU for us, and tOSU for the Bucknuts. Easy way to differentiate without having to type it all out. It is because if you talk to a Bucknut, it is not Ohio State University-it is THE Ohio State University.

But then again, why am I answering someone who tells one of our most informational posters to go somewhere else because they don't like his shorthand with an explanation? Will probably offend someone, just the way it is in the world today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Okwrestlingfan, Wrassler17 and Air_Thurman
CowboyUp61 said:
Most over all the boards use OSU for us, and tOSU for the Bucknuts. Easy way to differentiate without having to type it all out. It is because if you talk to a Bucknut, it is not Ohio State University-it is THE Ohio State University.

But then again, why am I answering someone who tells one of our most informational posters to go somewhere else because they don't like his shorthand with an explanation? Will probably offend someone, just the way it is in the world today.
Click to expand...
 
I appreciate that everyone has their preferences in referring to other teams and try not to get involved in squabbles. Old Number Nine thinks it is disrespecting Oklahoma State. That is how most posters on every wrestling board refer to Ohio State and I do not believe it is being disrespectful. In the distant past we proudly accepted Princeton colors and tried to emulate them. Personally, I never liked the term "Okie" and it bothered me when primarily an Iowa poster would call us "okiestate". Okiespladle and others on this board are certainly great posters and I also had a friend that used okie in his handle on this board in the past. He was a great respecter of Oklahoma State and its wrestling traditions and in fact was a member of the wrestling team.
I guess what I am trying to say in a meandering post is that maybe I and others ought to lighten up a little and just read the posts and not try to imply more out of them then is there. Wrassler17 is very insightful and knowledgeable in what he writes and he is definitely an OK State fan. Old Number Nine is also a great poster and adds to the enjoyment of this board. However, when you call me an "Okie" I better see the smile.;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: osu2082 and Wrassler17
Wrassler17 said:
Wow, sorry you feel that way.

Curious if others on the board feel the same. I think that might have been the first time I've used 'tOSU' in a post. If I have before, it's because I was too lazy to type out 'Ohio State'. Certainly don't mean to offend anyone.

And to Old Number Nine, thanks for the suggestion that I take my posting habits elsewhere. I've got an idea for you as well. You say you haven't read enough of my posts to know which team I am a fan of. Feel free to not read any of my posts. Skip them all and you won't get so irritated.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Old Number Nine thought you were writing fOSU to designate Oklahoma State. He referred to fOSU twice and not tOSU. Just guessing on that.
 
osuind said:
I wonder if Old Number Nine thought you were writing fOSU to designate Oklahoma State. He referred to fOSU twice and not tOSU. Just guessing on that.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same thing.... I think I might like the fOSU better actually.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: alabama hank
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

tlwwake

BYU vs Colorado

Replies
26
Views
2K
The Corral
tcpoke
T
windriverrange

Clyburn: Biden Will ‘Go Down as One of the Greatest Presidents We Ever Had’

Replies
9
Views
425
24/7 Politics
DCandtheUTBand
DCandtheUTBand
2

Gas Prices About To Go Sky High Out West

Replies
6
Views
351
24/7 Politics
LAY THE WOODY
L
Rdcldad

the insurrection lolz

Replies
1
Views
226
24/7 Politics
LAY THE WOODY
L
killmnl

NS - Montana Traffic Jam South of Bozeman

Replies
23
Views
1K
The Corral
killmnl
killmnl
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back