italy

[Wrassler17]

I get what you two are saying, but I just don't agree with that approach.

First we lost 149 and still won the dual. And I don't think the travel and competing at Midlands would have jeopardized the 149 match. Wyoming was 12/19, Midlands was 12/29-30 and the team flew to Italy on 12/31. Heck, they went sight seeing for 4 days before the NC St. dual. To me, Midlands was a great opportunity to gauge Boo and Geo against multiple top guys and not just a specific matchup.

I also get the looking over your shoulder approach to see who is warming up in the bullpen. But I don't want to see that dragged out too long. At some point you pick your horse and stick with him. Finally I'm concerned we had a poster join just to mention chess games and then we find out Boo was flown out to join the team mid trip in Wyoming and didn't wrestle and Geo was flown to Italy and didn't even weigh in.

Hopefully the coaches are being clear with both of them about expectations and what they need to do to win the spot.

 

[Mrgrapple]

North Carolina State had moved up to #3 in some polls, we won proving we still deserve to be in the top three. Sure we will have tough matches coming up with Iowa and Missouri to decide who is one of the top dual teams the nation. I still think we will be getting another trophy in Cleveland in March. No complaints on our program here.

 

[osu2082]

North Carolina State had moved up to #3 in some polls, we won proving we still deserve to be in the top three. Sure we will have tough matches coming up with Iowa and Missouri to decide who is one of the top dual teams the nation. I still think we will be getting another trophy in Cleveland in March. No complaints on our program here.

I still see improvement coming across the board for our guys. The last several years we have seen the same trend. Jon pushes our guys maybe a little different and causes some early season angst and then gets them at or near their peak come March.

We have top 3 threats at 125, 133, 141, 165 and 197 IMO. I think White could be the surprise of the team this year and has looked fantastic so far. Smith and Boo should also continue to improve. All is not lost!

 

[Wrassler17]

Some other observations on the match itself...

125: Picc can get to a lock on anyone's leg it seems. Can he finish against the strong guys (Nato, Suriano), the long scrambly guys (Lizak, Fausz) and the slick counter guys (Cruz)? That will be the key in a suddenly deep weight class now with Spencer Lee, Sebastian Riveria and Bressler. I'm betting yes and still see him as a major title threat.
141: I'm a little concerned because Jack actually got a takedown unlike Meredith who did not. I think Dean wins the title but he will have to be wrestling his best at nationals in a super close field. Hoping history repeats itself when Dean lost to Jack in the 2015 dual but then beat him at NCAAs.
184: Keegan wrestled a very conservative match and kept it close with an extremely tough Renda. That's not what I hoped to see in the first match of the dual. I would understand if it was the last match and the outcome was on the line. I'd rather see the Nolan Boyd approach against Gabe Dean, when he kept attacking only to be countered. I think Keegan needs to trust his athleticism and just let it fly. I know, easier said than done.
197: How about that low single by Preston? If his neutral offense improves even just a little, look out. It won't matter when guys choose neutral (and they definitely will come nationals).

 

[Harleycowboy]

Some other observations on the match itself...

125: Picc can get to a lock on anyone's leg it seems. Can he finish against the strong guys (Nato, Suriano), the long scrambly guys (Lizak, Fausz) and the slick counter guys (Cruz)? That will be the key in a suddenly deep weight class now with Spencer Lee, Sebastian Riveria and Bressler. I'm betting yes and still see him as a major title threat.
141: I'm a little concerned because Jack actually got a takedown unlike Meredith who did not. I think Dean wins the title but he will have to be wrestling his best at nationals in a super close field. Hoping history repeats itself when Dean lost to Jack in the 2015 dual but then beat him at NCAAs.
184: Keegan wrestled a very conservative match and kept it close with an extremely tough Renda. That's not what I hoped to see in the first match of the dual. I would understand if it was the last match and the outcome was on the line. I'd rather see the Nolan Boyd approach against Gabe Dean, when he kept attacking only to be countered. I think Keegan needs to trust his athleticism and just let it fly. I know, easier said than done.
197: How about that low single by Preston? If his neutral offense improves even just a little, look out. It won't matter when guys choose neutral (and they definitely will come nationals).

I rewatched the Heil match and he did not have 1 good shot. I think he has become complacent and just depends on his hang over an opponents back and grab a foot defense. His reaction to shots seems slow just like his shots. I also don't like how he quit trying as soon as Jack got that takedown. He seems to be struggling mentally which is bad because he depends on a razor thin advantage with good wrestlers. When he took over as a starter one of the first things I noticed about him once he got on your legs he would make decision upon good decision and methodically get control and get the takedown. I hope he progresses past where he is now.

 

[BigD_cowboy]

Did nc state heavyweight not wrestle in Italy? I saw him at scuffle....

 

[CowboyUp61]

Did nc state heavyweight not wrestle in Italy? I saw him at scuffle....

Believe it or not, I think that was a backup at the scuffle.

 

[NYWRESTLER94]

Picc has shown he can beat Cruz already just seems like he has a tough time with guys who can scramble just like last year. I did see an interview with the strength and conditioning coach for OSU and it sounds like he’s still not the biggest 125 because they had him on their lifting program from the end of the season all the way until he had to start getting ready to make 125 this season.

 

[april racer]

Believe it or not, I think that was a backup at the scuffle.

Yeah, Boykin, the one at the scuffle lost in a wrestle off.

 

[Wrassler17]

Picc may have beaten Cruz, but for those that didn't see the match, he did not finish a takedown against him. In the first period, he got a lock on a leg, just like he did against Gilman, Suriano, and Faucz. When he went to lift it, Cruz did a perfectly timed knee pick counter to get the takedown himself. Later in the first, Picc got to a leg again and Cruz simply grabbed an ankle to stop it. Picc only won because he countered a cradle in the second period for 6 points. I still think Picc is capable of winning if they meet again, but Cruz is wrestling well right now and there's no way he tries that foolish cradle again.

 

[ionel]

I get what you two are saying, but I just don't agree with that approach.

First we lost 149 and still won the dual. And I don't think the travel and competing at Midlands would have jeopardized the 149 match. Wyoming was 12/19, Midlands was 12/29-30 and the team flew to Italy on 12/31. Heck, they went sight seeing for 4 days before the NC St. dual. To me, Midlands was a great opportunity to gauge Boo and Geo against multiple top guys and not just a specific matchup.

I also get the looking over your shoulder approach to see who is warming up in the bullpen. But I don't want to see that dragged out too long. At some point you pick your horse and stick with him. Finally I'm concerned we had a poster join just to mention chess games and then we find out Boo was flown out to join the team mid trip in Wyoming and didn't wrestle and Geo was flown to Italy and didn't even weigh in.

Hopefully the coaches are being clear with both of them about expectations and what they need to do to win the spot.

Well first, they would not have been able to get into Midlands. But lets say they could and get dinged up or just not 100% from the tight schedule etc. who is the #3 guy that would've gone to Italy and could he have lost by more?

 

[osu2082]

Picc may have beaten Cruz, but for those that didn't see the match, he did not finish a takedown against him. In the first period, he got a lock on a leg, just like he did against Gilman, Suriano, and Faucz. When he went to lift it, Cruz did a perfectly timed knee pick counter to get the takedown himself. Later in the first, Picc got to a leg again and Cruz simply grabbed an ankle to stop it. Picc only won because he countered a cradle in the second period for 6 points. I still think Picc is capable of winning if they meet again, but Cruz is wrestling well right now and there's no way he tries that foolish cradle again.

Very true. What I have seen from Picc to make me think he is still in a group of about 5-6 guys who can win 125 which has turned into a wide open tough weight with a bunch of high end guys is the improvement in two areas specifically.

He still struggles at times finishing shots but has shown improvement there which was evidenced in the Lizak match. He has also improved his top game and is consistently dangerous from that position.

I think you will see some chaos at 125 at nationals.

 

[Wrassler17]

Well first, they would not have been able to get into Midlands. But lets say they could and get dinged up or just not 100% from the tight schedule etc. who is the #3 guy that would've gone to Italy and could he have lost by more?

Tristan Moran lost to Donahue 7-2 at Reno. Actually that match was somewhat similar to Boo's match with Donahue. It looked like Tristan would be able to get the takedown a couple of times but Donahue was able to fight it off.

Also, I'm not sure why Boo & Geo wouldn't be allowed to compete at Midlands. Several unattached guys do every year. My understanding is that there is a limit on the number of unattached competitors accepted, but if you apply early enough then it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Wrassler17]

Very true. What I have seen from Picc to make me think he is still in a group of about 5-6 guys who can win 125 which has turned into a wide open tough weight with a bunch of high end guys is the improvement in two areas specifically.

He still struggles at times finishing shots but has shown improvement there which was evidenced in the Lizak match. He has also improved his top game and is consistently dangerous from that position.

I think you will see some chaos at 125 at nationals.

I agree and I would add that Picc has also shown some signs of improvement on bottom. Granted, not in that 2nd period against Lizak. But Cruz is very tough on top also and Picc got out after he was taken down in the first period. Cruz might have rode for almost a minute, but Picc was very active underneath and Cruz was basically crawling out of bounds with him. It was far from a dominating ride.

 

[ionel]

Also, I'm not sure why Boo & Geo wouldn't be allowed to compete at Midlands. Several unattached guys do every year. My understanding is that there is a limit on the number of unattached competitors accepted, but if you apply early enough then it shouldn't be a problem.

Well first as said they probably wouldn't have known they wanted to do this early enough to get application in. But even if they did, Midlands has been picky about who they let in. Teams that have wrestled there a lot tend to get a larger allotment. Some teams (at least in past been this way) accepted but not allowed to bring everyone. Believe M Hall tried to get in last year (may have been late) but also Midlands prob not happy with PSU cause they switched to the Scuffle.

Midlands doesn't see themselves as a "ranking tournament" and OSU last participate when, and they've been going to the Scuffle (competition) for how many years? Sure if the whole team planned to attend they might get an allocation that would allow 2 guys at a couple weight classes, but they are not going to just take 2 guys at the same weight class. If say Dieringer wanted to get in as a post grad, they'd probably accept him (or maybe even if Fix had applied early with Midlands knowing good chance Lee would compete) they like to see guys like that compete

 

[Wrassler17]

Well first as said they probably wouldn't have known they wanted to do this early enough to get application in. But even if they did, Midlands has been picky about who they let in. Teams that have wrestled there a lot tend to get a larger allotment. Some teams (at least in past been this way) accepted but not allowed to bring everyone. Believe M Hall tried to get in last year (may have been late) but also Midlands prob not happy with PSU cause they switched to the Scuffle.

Midlands doesn't see themselves as a "ranking tournament" and OSU last participate when, and they've been going to the Scuffle (competition) for how many years? Sure if the whole team planned to attend they might get an allocation that would allow 2 guys at a couple weight classes, but they are not going to just take 2 guys at the same weight class. If say Dieringer wanted to get in as a post grad, they'd probably accept him (or maybe even if Fix had applied early with Midlands knowing good chance Lee would compete) they like to see guys like that compete

Mark Hall was rejected by the Midlands because he applied too late (supposedly), so he registered for the Scuffle instead. Myles Martin is a better example. Last year he wrestled at the Midlands. He wasn't redshirting and he wasn't part of the Ohio State team competing there. In fact, tOSU had no recent affiliation with the Midlands since they normally compete at the Cliff Keen Invite. Martin competed there because he wanted to get matches in at 184 to gauge himself against the competition (after being at 174 the year before). Was he accepted because he was a defending champ? Maybe. Maybe Midlands is looking for that "prestigious" factor, I don't really know.

But none of that is really my main point, which is how do you best determine a starter - ranking matches, how someone looks in a particular matchup, or against common opponents in a tournament setting? I think it's the last one. If Boo & Geo got rejected by the Midlands, fine send them to the Scuffle and send Tristan to Italy. March matters, not January. Just my opinion. Some will disagree, like you. And our coaches obviously. That's fine too.

 

[Old Number Nine]

Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.

Or he could just continuing using what ever short hand he wants for Ohio State because its not that big of deal. That is another option.

 

[Wrassler17]

Wrassler17, I haven't seen enough of you're posts to know which way you lean, Oklahoma State or Ohio State and I know I don't speak for every Oklahoma State wrestling fan but I find your use of the fOSU moniker on this board to be personal insulting. In my opinion, when wrestling people, in general, and particularly on this board write OSU they mean Oklahoma State. I believe this to be almost a certainly say, 34/1 odds. "The OSU" in wrestling is Oklahoma State so please take your fOSU over to the 1/34 board.

Wow, sorry you feel that way.

Curious if others on the board feel the same. I think that might have been the first time I've used 'tOSU' in a post. If I have before, it's because I was too lazy to type out 'Ohio State'. Certainly don't mean to offend anyone.

And to Old Number Nine, thanks for the suggestion that I take my posting habits elsewhere. I've got an idea for you as well. You say you haven't read enough of my posts to know which team I am a fan of. Feel free to not read any of my posts. Skip them all and you won't get so irritated.

 

[CowboyUp61]

Most over all the boards use OSU for us, and tOSU for the Bucknuts. Easy way to differentiate without having to type it all out. It is because if you talk to a Bucknut, it is not Ohio State University-it is THE Ohio State University.

But then again, why am I answering someone who tells one of our most informational posters to go somewhere else because they don't like his shorthand with an explanation? Will probably offend someone, just the way it is in the world today.

 

[oberebo]

Most over all the boards use OSU for us, and tOSU for the Bucknuts. Easy way to differentiate without having to type it all out. It is because if you talk to a Bucknut, it is not Ohio State University-it is THE Ohio State University.

But then again, why am I answering someone who tells one of our most informational posters to go somewhere else because they don't like his shorthand with an explanation? Will probably offend someone, just the way it is in the world today.

 

[oberebo]

I appreciate that everyone has their preferences in referring to other teams and try not to get involved in squabbles. Old Number Nine thinks it is disrespecting Oklahoma State. That is how most posters on every wrestling board refer to Ohio State and I do not believe it is being disrespectful. In the distant past we proudly accepted Princeton colors and tried to emulate them. Personally, I never liked the term "Okie" and it bothered me when primarily an Iowa poster would call us "okiestate". Okiespladle and others on this board are certainly great posters and I also had a friend that used okie in his handle on this board in the past. He was a great respecter of Oklahoma State and its wrestling traditions and in fact was a member of the wrestling team.
I guess what I am trying to say in a meandering post is that maybe I and others ought to lighten up a little and just read the posts and not try to imply more out of them then is there. Wrassler17 is very insightful and knowledgeable in what he writes and he is definitely an OK State fan. Old Number Nine is also a great poster and adds to the enjoyment of this board. However, when you call me an "Okie" I better see the smile.

 

[osuind]

Wow, sorry you feel that way.

Curious if others on the board feel the same. I think that might have been the first time I've used 'tOSU' in a post. If I have before, it's because I was too lazy to type out 'Ohio State'. Certainly don't mean to offend anyone.

And to Old Number Nine, thanks for the suggestion that I take my posting habits elsewhere. I've got an idea for you as well. You say you haven't read enough of my posts to know which team I am a fan of. Feel free to not read any of my posts. Skip them all and you won't get so irritated.

I wonder if Old Number Nine thought you were writing fOSU to designate Oklahoma State. He referred to fOSU twice and not tOSU. Just guessing on that.

 

[tfpoke]

I wonder if Old Number Nine thought you were writing fOSU to designate Oklahoma State. He referred to fOSU twice and not tOSU. Just guessing on that.

I was thinking the same thing.... I think I might like the fOSU better actually.....

 

[Old Number Nine]

Be assured, the "f" was intentional and meant Ohio State. Go Pokes

 

[BigD_cowboy]

So it appears Martinez is injured....

 

[Pokes2010]

So it appears Martinez is injured....

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/wrestling-pokes-geo-martinez-injured-out-for-the-foreseeable-future/