It was a shitty bill

[MegaPoke]

I hated it. I hate Paul Ryan. Very disappointed in Trump for pushing this garbage. the deadline was stupid.

Passing this garbage with no guarantee of additional phases, would've blurred the lines between the failure of Obamacare and the ownership of Trumpcare/Obamacare Lite.

Glad it got pulled. Hope the next version is actual change.

Hope Paul Ryan is done. Hope Rand Paul becomes a bigger voice. He's the only guy that's has a good plan.

Meantime:

Build the wall.

Crush ISIS.

Create more jobs.

 

[Ostatedchi]

The Republicans problem is that they are willing to sacrifice progress for the perfect. You take every inch you can when you can. Eventually the miles add up. That's what the Democrats have done for decades and it is effective.

 

[hollywood]

I hated it. I hate Paul Ryan. Very disappointed in Trump for pushing this garbage. the deadline was stupid.

Passing this garbage with no guarantee of additional phases, would've blurred the lines between the failure of Obamacare and the ownership of Trumpcare/Obamacare Lite.

Glad it got pulled. Hope the next version is actual change.

Hope Paul Ryan is done. Hope Rand Paul becomes a bigger voice. He's the only guy that's has a good plan.

Meantime:

Build the wall.

Crush ISIS.

Create more jobs.

Yes it was a crappy bill..... but pray tell, all during the campaign Trump kept promising you he had his own plan, and shortly after his inauguration he said that the final, finishing touches on that plan would be made public as soon as Tom Price was confirmed.

Yet, the plan Trump was telling you had been in existence for many, many months was NEVER shared with the public, nor was it ever introduced by an Trump allied House/Senate member as an option to compete with the Ryan plan.

It's almost like Trump was full of sheet and telling his constituency what they wanted to hear.....rather than actually having a plan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...w-822pm:homepage/story&utm_term=.947feeb07e26

So, why is Paul Ryan completely responsible again? Why are you not willing to hold Trump's feet to the fire and ask him to produce "HIS" plan for consideration?

 

[davidallen]

Why are you not willing to hold Trump's feet to the fire and ask him to produce "HIS" plan for consideration?

Sadly @MegaPoke has traded his intellectual honesty for a pair of Pom Poms.

 

[MegaPoke]

So, why is Paul Ryan completely responsible again? Why are you not willing to hold Trump's feet to the fire and ask him to produce "HIS" plan for consideration?

I realize you think you are having a great day, but I've never supported Paul Ryan. He is the face of the modern neocon. This thread IS holding Trump's feet to the fire, first for having no plan and second for endorsing the neocon plan.

Just said I was disappointed in Trump in the OP, did you miss it?

I expect a new plan under new leadership - hopefully Rand.

 

[MegaPoke]

Sadly @MegaPoke has traded his intellectual honesty for a pair of Pom Poms.

Interesting.

 

[hollywood]

I realize you think you are having a great day, but I've never supported Paul Ryan. He is the face of the modern neocon. This thread IS holding Trump's feet to the fire, first for having no plan and second for endorsing the neocon plan.

Just said I was disappointed in Trump in the OP, did you miss it?

I expect a new plan under new leadership - hopefully Rand.

Why do you need Rand? Where's Trump's plan? Has he not been claiming he had one, a wonderful one at that? One which would cover everyone, at a lower cost, with much better insurance?

That's where I'm asking you to hold Trump accountable MEGA!

Do you still really think the guy ever had a plan in the first place? (Sort of like his top secret plan to defeat ISIL which he claimed he's had for well over a year, which when push came to shove his "secret" plan involved asking the Pentagon to come up with a plan to defeat ISIL. Damn, what a brilliant military mind he has.) Face it, the guy is/was FOS and doesn't have a plan to deal with anything, he's just suckered people into thinking he does.

 

[davidallen]

Why do you need Rand? Where's Trump's plan? Has he not been claiming he had one, a wonderful one at that? One which would cover everyone, at a lower cost, with much better insurance?

That's where I'm asking you to hold Trump accountable MEGA!

Do you still really think the guy ever had a plan in the first place? (Sort of like his top secret plan to defeat ISIL which he claimed he's had for well over a year, which when push came to shove his "secret" plan involved asking the Pentagon to come up with a plan to defeat ISIL. Damn, what a brilliant military mind he has.) Face it, the guy is/was FOS and doesn't have a plan to deal with anything, he's just suckered people into thinking he does.

Good example of holding Trump accountable.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The Republicans problem is that they are willing to sacrifice progress for the perfect. You take every inch you can when you can. Eventually the miles add up. That's what the Democrats have done for decades and it is effective.

You misunderstand completely. The Republican agenda has ALWAYS been to lose slowly. They don't necessarily disagree with the Democrat agenda, just the speed with which to implement it. Bob Dole, John McCain, all three Bushes, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, etc.: do you see a pattern?

 

[shortbus]

Campaign plan:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

 

[MegaPoke]

Campaign plan:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

This. Get it done.

 

[squeak]

Campaign plan:

1. Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.
2. Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.
3. Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
4. Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.
5. Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.
6. Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.
7. Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

I thought he didn't have a campaign plan?

 

[NZ Poke]

Hope Rand Paul becomes a bigger voice. He's the only guy that's has a good plan.

 

[Rdcldad]

i don't get the disappointment

this is not trumps failure and trump doesn't have to stand behind swamp stained crap that congressional repubs put together

the dems rejoice at saving obamacare

and every person that voted for and stood behind trump sees their premiums double again in six months

by november you have a mandate looming
and trump whipping legislation that election fearing repubs want their name on

jmho

 

[NZ Poke]

i don't get the disappointment

this is not trumps failure and trump doesn't have to stand behind swamp stained crap that congressional repubs put together

the dems rejoice at saving obamacare

and every person that voted for and stood behind trump sees their premiums double again in six months

by november you have a mandate looming
and trump whipping legislation that election fearing repubs want their name on

jmho

New Scott Adams article (one of the people who predicted Trump would win early on).

 

[Rdcldad]

New Scott Adams article (one of the people who predicted Trump would win early on).

View embedded media

thanks for posting

i agree with the article and would reiterate this swamp is not something trump can take head on.

trumps holecard is and will always be the working americans who flipped four states and stand for our country old school.

let these premiums go up again in october and there will be war

 

[Rdcldad]

in fact the more i think about this russian bs
that the dems are pursuing as the cause of their demise

the more the actual cause which i believe to be insane healthcare premiums in the name of obamacare goes unchecked

now they get to own obamacare again in 18 and while the media shows people screaming at town halls to save this crap, people will really be screaming when they have to write bigger checks for 18.

 

[NZ Poke]

thanks for posting

i agree with the article and would reiterate this swamp is not something trump can take head on.

trumps holecard is and will always be the working americans who flipped four states and stand for our country old school.

let these premiums go up again in october and there will be war

Yep.

Paul Ryan is 100% part of the Swamp.





Therefore, Paul Ryan getting severely wounded by this (while Trump only gets slightly wounded)

+ Showing the utter ineptitude of the already-loathed GOP establishment (who had seven years to come up with something better than this steaming pile of shit)


+ Trump avoiding having rising premiums (and this terrible bill) wrapped around him


= Short-term Trump tactical loss, that could lead to long-term strategic victory.


Good analysis, from the always insightful weird guy:

 

[CowboyJD]

i don't get the disappointment

this is not trumps failure and trump doesn't have to stand behind swamp stained crap that congressional repubs put together

the dems rejoice at saving obamacare

and every person that voted for and stood behind trump sees their premiums double again in six months

by november you have a mandate looming
and trump whipping legislation that election fearing repubs want their name on

jmho

Except he DID stand behind it AND pushed for this swamp stained crap....bigly.

 

[CowboyJD]

Yep.

Paul Ryan is 100% part of the Swamp.

View embedded media

Therefore, Paul Ryan getting severely wounded by this (while Trump only gets slightly wounded)

+ Showing the utter ineptitude of the already-loathed GOP establishment (who had seven years to come up with something better than this steaming pile of shit)


+ Trump avoiding having rising premiums (and this terrible bill) wrapped around him


= Short-term Trump tactical loss, that could lead to long-term strategic victory.


Good analysis, from the always insightful weird guy:

View embedded media

Still waiting for a firm over/under for Ryan being gone.

Doubt I'll get it.

 

[windriverrange]

JD I'll give you the date of July 1, 2018. He will be the punching boy for the republicans in the next election cycle and anyone who campaigned on repealling that POS legislation will have to find a palatable boogeyman to convince voters to keep suppportung him/her to repeal that legislation. Only way that date falls by the wayside is if those idiots manage to kill it off by March/April of 2018.

 

[CowboyJD]

JD I'll give you the date of July 1, 2018. He will be the punching boy for the republicans in the next election cycle and anyone who campaigned on repealling that POS legislation will have to find a palatable boogeyman to convince voters to keep suppportung him/her to repeal that legislation. Only way that date falls by the wayside is if those idiots manage to kill it off by March/April of 2018.

So before mid-term elections.

I'll take the over....all day.

 

[windriverrange]

What are we wagering?

 

[HighStickHarry]

What are we wagering?

If one of you are right syskatine is banned for two years.

 

[Medic007]

If one of you are right syskatine is banned for two years.

Three minutes ban. We'd all get fat without our punching bag.

 

[Rdcldad]

Except he DID stand behind it AND pushed for this swamp stained crap....bigly.

trump was just playing hot potato
he not standing behind it now

 

[CowboyJD]

trump was just playing hot potato
he not standing behind it now

4D chess.

Got it.

 

[CowboyJD]

What are we wagering?

Same offer as I gave @NZ Poke.

@NZ Poke .....the better question for all you 4D chess proponents is what is the over/under in months before it happens?

You set it, I'll pick....for a friendly "you got me" bet only. You seem convinced it's going to happen, I'm interested in when.

Like David Letterman said before Stupid Human Tricks...."and as always, no wagering on the outcome allowed.

I'm not a high stakes guy, but you should know I HATE saying "I was wrong, you were right"....even when I know it's true.

If you want to raise it a bit more, I'd go with an avatar bet for a week or so. Anything beyond that is out of my league.

 

[windriverrange]

Okay here's the bet. If I win you have to arm wrestle Guns, in Joes before a night game and after consuming a pitcher of beer. I'll buy since already owe Guns some brew. MEGA has to be there as the ref and Medic there to treat any injuries, including acute alcohol poisoning. Wyoming can be there for crowd control.

The peanut gallery can be anyone from this board who wants to cheer or jeer.

 

[CowboyJD]

Okay here's the bet. If I win you have to arm wrestle Guns, in Joes before a night game and after consuming a pitcher of beer. I'll buy since already owe Guns some brew. MEGA has to be there as the ref and Medic there to treat any injuries, including acute alcohol poisoning. Wyoming can be there for crowd control.

The peanut gallery can be anyone from this board who wants to cheer or jeer.

Seems like a lot of coordination, and I'd prefer a trivia contest over arm wrassling, but what the hell...I'm in.

What happens when I win?

 

[GL97]

Spectacular failure on the part of Trump and Republicans in Congress to rob millions of Americans of their health care coverage. Trump shows he isn't the master of the deal and Republicans show they can't even get along among themselves.

Americans are better off that this group failed but there is still much work that needs to be done in regards to health care in this country. We need to embrace Medicare for All and stop treating health care as a privilege...but instead, as a right.

 

[Rdcldad]

Spectacular failure on the part of Trump and Republicans in Congress to rob millions of Americans of their health care coverage. Trump shows he isn't the master of the deal and Republicans show they can't govern.

Americans are better off that this group failed but there is still much work that needs to be done in regards to health care in this country. We need to embrace Medicare for All and stop treating health care as a privilege...but instead, as a right.

nice that the dems robbed hard working people of their wealth in the process

 

[windriverrange]

You win, your call based on some reasonable creative thought....especially if it revolves around beer and game day.

 

[CowboyJD]

You win, your call based on some reasonable creative thought....especially if it revolves around beer and game day.

It'll be the following season (unless you win before this December), but sounds good.

 

[TPOKE]

I just wish they would've of passed the damn thing so we could see what was in it.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Spectacular failure on the part of Trump and Republicans in Congress to rob millions of Americans of their health care coverage. Trump shows he isn't the master of the deal and Republicans show they can't even get along among themselves.

Americans are better off that this group failed but there is still much work that needs to be done in regards to health care in this country. We need to embrace Medicare for All and stop treating health care as a privilege...but instead, as a right.

I wonder if you could define a "right," and explain why healthcare fits into that definition. What does that even mean, a right to healthcare? Do you mean it should be free? Are you thinking the government should provide it to us? Please explain how that would work. If we are entitled to healthcare as a right, what other "rights" should we expect the government to provide? How about shoes? Do we have a right to government-provided shoes? How about haircuts? Toothpaste? Major League Baseball tickets? From your perspective does the government provide our rights? Or are we born with them? If healthcare is a right, why aren't all products rights?

 

[CowboyJD]

I wonder if you could define a "right," and explain why healthcare fits into that definition. What does that even mean, a right to healthcare? Do you mean it should be free? Are you thinking the government should provide it to us? Please explain how that would work. If we are entitled to healthcare as a right, what other "rights" should we expect the government to provide? How about shoes? Do we have a right to government-provided shoes? How about haircuts? Toothpaste? Major League Baseball tickets? From your perspective does the government provide our rights? Or are we born with them? If healthcare is a right, why aren't all products rights?

 

[davidallen]

I wonder if you could define a "right," and explain why healthcare fits into that definition. What does that even mean, a right to healthcare? Do you mean it should be free? Are you thinking the government should provide it to us? Please explain how that would work. If we are entitled to healthcare as a right, what other "rights" should we expect the government to provide? How about shoes? Do we have a right to government-provided shoes? How about haircuts? Toothpaste? Major League Baseball tickets? From your perspective does the government provide our rights? Or are we born with them? If healthcare is a right, why aren't all products rights?

Right - something morally or socially justified. Rights derive from the society and change as the society evolves. Some are codified in law. Others are social norms. Rights are validated/derive from the consensus of society. IMO there is no such thing as divine rights.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Right - something morally or socially justified. Rights derive from the society and change as the society evolves. Some are codified in law. Others are social norms. Rights are validated/derive from the consensus of society. IMO there is no such thing as divine rights.

Confusing definition. Our society has evolved to the point it thinks it is morally and socially justified in bombing civilians in Syria. Does that mean the civilians in Syria have the "right" to be bombed? Try again.

 

[CowboyJD]

Right - something morally or socially justified. Rights derive from the society and change as the society evolves. Some are codified in law. Others are social norms. Rights are validated/derive from the consensus of society. IMO there is no such thing as divine rights.

I wanted @GL97 to reply, but