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Internal, Personal philosophical/political contradictions...

CowboyJD

CowboyJD

MegaPoke is insane
Gold Member
Dec 13, 2002
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Boy do I got a few big ones.

1. I find myself becoming more and more anti-authoritarian in attitude with each passing day.....yet I work in and for law enforcement. I can resolve this one pretty easily. I am still defending the constitution and the law just as much as I was as a criminal defense lawyer....just doing it from the inside with real influence and possibility of being heard.

2. I believe that human beings should willingly provide for and assist those truly in need and less fortunate themselves. I believe that corporate entities should protect interests beyond the bottom line when it comes to the environment and respect for individuals. I believe that businesses shouldn't discriminate against individuals based upon immutable characteristics. I believe I am pretty darned altruistic (maybe I'm fooling myself into believing that) by nature.

I also believe that a large majority of the world population is the exact opposite of altruistic. That they will not do those types of things without some incentive to do so or penalty for not doing so from the government. Yet as I said before, I am anti-authoritarian by nature. So I (at least think of myself as) an altruistic anti-authoritarian that has a dim view of whether large segments of society will act as decent, civil, caring human beings if given the freedom of choice do or not do the things I view as essential.

I don't really have a handle on how to reconcile those and whether I am just fooling myself about what I believe about myself and/or my fellow human beings.

I realize I am opening myself up to personal criticism and that I'm probably just rambling and navel gazing with this post, BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.

This could be very interesting....or it could lead no where whatsoever. It's 2:50 on a Friday, and I need a beer.
 
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Ever thought of setting up a YouTube channel and to uploading videos of your thoughts?

I'm sure they would be very interesting, and it's good to hear from people who have conflicting views. (Few people are completely partisan)

I will say, the quality of YouTube commentary is getting incredibly high -- crushing the majority brain-numbing talking heads on TV.

This guy is an example of someone producing excellent content. I would assume this is his job now (producing his own videos):

 
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It's healthy to always doubt those in authority imo, though at the same time I think it's important to respect the office, if not the man.

Helping the less fortunate is one of the most Christian things a person could choose to engage in. I am against illegal immigration, but have been actively involved the in the care of orphaned children of illegals for a few years now. Part of that stemmed from my pro-life conviction. My thinking was that if I'm for life, I should also be actively involved in caring for the less fortunate outside of the womb, especially the helpless and unwanted.

At the same time working with and caring for Hispanic children has led me to be more empathetic towards the plight of illegal immigrants. Though I do not support them breaking the law and understand why we have and must keep strong immigration laws, I would attempt to do the same thing that many of them are doing if I were in the same shoes.
 
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Yes, but I do not have the time right now to take as a deep of a dive as you have. I will just say quickly as I have aged I have less faith in people today to do the right things than 30 years ago due to what I have witnessed and the life experiences that have impacted me, and that has changed me, for better or worse I have no idea. Proud to say that I have never let my family down, knowing that is partly due to decisions I have made and blind luck, I hope that day never happens but I understand that I am human.
 
CowboyJD said:
Boy do I got a few big ones.

1. I find myself becoming more and more anti-authoritarian in attitude with each passing day.....yet I work in and for law enforcement. I can resolve this one pretty easily. I am still defending the constitution and the law just as much as I was as a criminal defense lawyer....just doing it from the inside with real influence and possibility of being heard.

2. I believe that human beings should willingly provide for and assist those truly in need and less fortunate themselves. I believe that corporate entities should protect interests beyond the bottom line when it comes to the environment and respect for individuals. I believe that businesses shouldn't discriminate against individuals based upon immutable characteristics. I believe I am pretty darned altruistic (maybe I'm fooling myself into believing that) by nature.

I also believe that a large majority of the world population is the exact opposite of altruistic. That they will not do those types of things without some incentive to do so or penalty for not doing so from the government. Yet as I said before, I am anti-authoritarian by nature. So I (at least think of myself as) an altruistic anti-authoritarian that has a dim view of whether large segments of society will act as decent, civil, caring human beings if given the freedom of choice do or not do the things I view as essential.

I don't really have a handle on how to reconcile those and whether I am just fooling myself about what I believe about myself and/or my fellow human beings.

I realize I am opening myself up to personal criticism and that I'm probably just rambling and navel gazing with this post, BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.

This could be very interesting....or it could lead no where whatsoever. It's 2:50 on a Friday, and I need a beer.
Click to expand...
I hate the government. I'm anti-regulation but I'm a regulator. I guess it's not that I don't think it's needed, I think it should be minimal.
 
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squeak said:
I hate the government. I'm anti-regulation but I'm a regulator. I guess it's not that I don't think it's needed, I think it should be minimal.
Click to expand...
In almost another lifetime, I was in your same boat. For that reason (and some others), I got out as soon as I could.
 
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NZ Poke said:
Ever thought of setting up a YouTube channel and to uploading videos of your thoughts?

I'm sure they would be very interesting, and it's good to hear from people who have conflicting views. (Few people are completely partisan)

I will say, the quality of YouTube commentary is getting incredibly high -- crushing the majority brain-numbing talking heads on TV.

This guy is an example of someone producing excellent content. I would assume this is his job now (producing his own videos):

View embedded media
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't have enough time to do the things as I HAVE TO and the things I WANT TO to take on becoming a YouTuber. I do journal. Audio podcasting has some appeal to me in the far off future. I would also like to get involved in teaching at some point, but not traditional law or criminal justice classes. In an ideal world, I would teach non-traditional subjects involving law, politics, history, art, the humanities and literature for instance:

-People talk about fascism almost exclusively in terms of politics and war. There, however, are also aesthetic and artistic traditions in European fascism that are worthy of examination and discussion. I see guys like Spencer and other Pepe meme folk using some of that aesthetic to their advantage.

-I would love to teach a law and literature class....both from literary expression in legal opinions and other legal writings and the other way around....ton of literary works that have a lot to say about law in society. That could also be done with movies and pop culture.

Maybe when I get the motivation to actually podcast or vidcast, it will be about some of those types of topics.

That or I'll just become a game show host. That seems fun too.
 
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CowboyJD said:
BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I'm usually a strong proponent of personal freedom, but I'm strongly against the legalization of pot. It's not that I think pot is somehow dangerous or anything. I simply don't have the patience to put up with stoners, and the legalization of pot in Colorado has caused an increase in the homeless population here.

I know it's hypocritical of someone who believes in personal freedoms, but it's just the way I feel.
 
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CowboyJD said:
Boy do I got a few big ones.

1. I find myself becoming more and more anti-authoritarian in attitude with each passing day.....yet I work in and for law enforcement. I can resolve this one pretty easily. I am still defending the constitution and the law just as much as I was as a criminal defense lawyer....just doing it from the inside with real influence and possibility of being heard.

2. I believe that human beings should willingly provide for and assist those truly in need and less fortunate themselves. I believe that corporate entities should protect interests beyond the bottom line when it comes to the environment and respect for individuals. I believe that businesses shouldn't discriminate against individuals based upon immutable characteristics. I believe I am pretty darned altruistic (maybe I'm fooling myself into believing that) by nature.

I also believe that a large majority of the world population is the exact opposite of altruistic. That they will not do those types of things without some incentive to do so or penalty for not doing so from the government. Yet as I said before, I am anti-authoritarian by nature. So I (at least think of myself as) an altruistic anti-authoritarian that has a dim view of whether large segments of society will act as decent, civil, caring human beings if given the freedom of choice do or not do the things I view as essential.

I don't really have a handle on how to reconcile those and whether I am just fooling myself about what I believe about myself and/or my fellow human beings.

I realize I am opening myself up to personal criticism and that I'm probably just rambling and navel gazing with this post, BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.

This could be very interesting....or it could lead no where whatsoever. It's 2:50 on a Friday, and I need a beer.
Click to expand...

I share your anti-authoritarian views, to the point its unhealthy. On a personal level, I've always had friction with people that WANT power over other people. You can just tell who they are. Conversely, ive always liked judges that dont exercise their authority or are very forgiving of people when they dont have to be. You really find out a lot about people when they are given power or experience hardship.

The practice of law has left me with some very dark opinions about human nature, along with some healthy respect and admiration for people that are still decent and altrustic.

I love women so so much, and i also frequently want to pull their heads off with my bare hands.

I hate politically victimizing poor people. I hate politics motivated by making sure nobody gets anything for free. Some people just never have a shot or a chance, because of their environment and telling them to piss off infuriates me. Then when I'm in a grocery store and see a fatass with 3 kids buying shit food w the goverment card it's infuriating.

I detest violence and love it.

I hate it when men openly look at a woman's ass, but i'm the worst. Its truly involuntarily.
I hate religion but have to reconcile that with all the good its done for lots of people.

I try to eat vegan, partly out of love of animals, but black out regularly and eat a dozen wings or ribs before your hat hits the floor.

Whew. I could go all day.
 
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Colorado_Poke said:
Absolutely. I'm usually a strong proponent of personal freedom, but I'm strongly against the legalization of pot. It's not that I think pot is somehow dangerous or anything. I simply don't have the patience to put up with stoners, and the legalization of pot in Colorado has caused an increase in the homeless population here.

I know it's hypocritical of someone who believes in personal freedoms, but it's just the way I feel.
Click to expand...
There are absolute valid reasons to have legal medical marijuana .. We need to get that done.
 
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Oh shit, how could i forget? I think its insane that about anyone can buy a semi auto firearm. I have lots of guns. I dont really think that's a contradiction, but by gawd some do!
 
Colorado_Poke said:
Absolutely. I'm usually a strong proponent of personal freedom, but I'm strongly against the legalization of pot. It's not that I think pot is somehow dangerous or anything. I simply don't have the patience to put up with stoners, and the legalization of pot in Colorado has caused an increase in the homeless population here.

I know it's hypocritical of someone who believes in personal freedoms, but it's just the way I feel.
Click to expand...

How does weed increase homelessness?
 
I like your post, JD. My issue is that I've become cynical. I would love to help others, but I can no longer tell who needs help and who is too lazy to do it themselves and just wants a handout. So now all my charitable activity goes towards animals. We donate and support our local animal shelters and animal adoption agencies. Otherwise, I'm a libertarian and pro-nationalist. "My right to swing my fist ends at your nose." That's what I was taught by my 8th grade history teacher and its always stuck with me. Finally, I'm a believer in personal responsibility and choice.
 
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aix_xpert said:
I like your post, JD. My issue is that I've become cynical. I would love to help others, but I can no longer tell who needs help and who is too lazy to do it themselves and just wants a handout. So now all my charitable activity goes towards animals. We donate and support our local animal shelters and animal adoption agencies. Otherwise, I'm a libertarian and pro-nationalist. "My right to swing my fist ends at your nose." That's what I was taught by my 8th grade history teacher and its always stuck with me. Finally, I'm a believer in personal responsibility and choice.
Click to expand...

This.
 
I'm pretty cold-hearted when it comes to the use of government as a charity system or social safety net. But I spend a lot of my personal time giving to charities and raising money to give to people in more need than me.

I'm also not a believer in 'sin taxes'; but until the 'sinners' stop asking for government handouts that result from those sins, then I can't say I'm opposed to them either.
 
aix_xpert said:
I like your post, JD. My issue is that I've become cynical. I would love to help others, but I can no longer tell who needs help and who is too lazy to do it themselves and just wants a handout. So now all my charitable activity goes towards animals. We donate and support our local animal shelters and animal adoption agencies. Otherwise, I'm a libertarian and pro-nationalist. "My right to swing my fist ends at your nose." That's what I was taught by my 8th grade history teacher and its always stuck with me. Finally, I'm a believer in personal responsibility and choice.
Click to expand...

I like this, but isn't there a way to put in some research and nail down 2 or 3 charities that are well managed and don't pay their execs like execs? Maybe a local soup kitchen? I'm sure there are reports that give a dollar ratio of input to true output toward stated purpose.
 
Rotary International fighting Polio. 100% pass through donations. And all donations matched 2 to 1 by the Gates Foundation.

Let's eradicate polio from the face of the earth before we die.
 
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CowboyJD said:
Boy do I got a few big ones.

1. I find myself becoming more and more anti-authoritarian in attitude with each passing day.....yet I work in and for law enforcement. I can resolve this one pretty easily. I am still defending the constitution and the law just as much as I was as a criminal defense lawyer....just doing it from the inside with real influence and possibility of being heard.

2. I believe that human beings should willingly provide for and assist those truly in need and less fortunate themselves. I believe that corporate entities should protect interests beyond the bottom line when it comes to the environment and respect for individuals. I believe that businesses shouldn't discriminate against individuals based upon immutable characteristics. I believe I am pretty darned altruistic (maybe I'm fooling myself into believing that) by nature.

I also believe that a large majority of the world population is the exact opposite of altruistic. That they will not do those types of things without some incentive to do so or penalty for not doing so from the government. Yet as I said before, I am anti-authoritarian by nature. So I (at least think of myself as) an altruistic anti-authoritarian that has a dim view of whether large segments of society will act as decent, civil, caring human beings if given the freedom of choice do or not do the things I view as essential.

I don't really have a handle on how to reconcile those and whether I am just fooling myself about what I believe about myself and/or my fellow human beings.

I realize I am opening myself up to personal criticism and that I'm probably just rambling and navel gazing with this post, BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.

This could be very interesting....or it could lead no where whatsoever. It's 2:50 on a Friday, and I need a beer.
Click to expand...
Gotdam that is close to home...
 
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I think free market capitalism is great for setting prices for things that we want, but don't need, i.e. cars with heat/air in the seats and imported wood and leather, 72" 4K 3D televisions, stainless steel appliances with wifi connectivity, etc. I question whether a profit motive is the best way to approach medicine, prisons, K-12 education, etc. I guess the conflict comes in that I've never figured out a way to pick/judge the line between need and want, at least not in any scientific manner. In my fictional society, who gets to pick whether a price should be set by a market, vs some government control?

The idea of a basic income seems to make great sense at times. If we didn't have to get in the rat race just to afford the health insurance to stay out of bankruptcy if you break a bone or get infected with some superbug, it seems like some people could contribute more to their strengths. I think of an old Star Trek episode where they thawed out some 21st century humans, and explained to them that mankind no longer functions on the accumulation of wealth. Of course, then I see or hear the stories in this thread, e.g. where a grocery basket full of junk food (or Papa Murphy's) is charged to an EBT, or a Cadillac Escalade pulls up to a charity event to load up on free clothes, blankets, etc. I scratch my head thinking about exactly what the ROI would be on that basic income :)
 
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CowboyJD said:
Boy do I got a few big ones.

1. I find myself becoming more and more anti-authoritarian in attitude with each passing day.....yet I work in and for law enforcement. I can resolve this one pretty easily. I am still defending the constitution and the law just as much as I was as a criminal defense lawyer....just doing it from the inside with real influence and possibility of being heard.

2. I believe that human beings should willingly provide for and assist those truly in need and less fortunate themselves. I believe that corporate entities should protect interests beyond the bottom line when it comes to the environment and respect for individuals. I believe that businesses shouldn't discriminate against individuals based upon immutable characteristics. I believe I am pretty darned altruistic (maybe I'm fooling myself into believing that) by nature.

I also believe that a large majority of the world population is the exact opposite of altruistic. That they will not do those types of things without some incentive to do so or penalty for not doing so from the government. Yet as I said before, I am anti-authoritarian by nature. So I (at least think of myself as) an altruistic anti-authoritarian that has a dim view of whether large segments of society will act as decent, civil, caring human beings if given the freedom of choice do or not do the things I view as essential.

I don't really have a handle on how to reconcile those and whether I am just fooling myself about what I believe about myself and/or my fellow human beings.

I realize I am opening myself up to personal criticism and that I'm probably just rambling and navel gazing with this post, BUT do any of the rest of you have largely conflicting personal philosophical/political values that are equally important to you that you have trouble logically reconciling so as to not be incompatible with each other.

This could be very interesting....or it could lead no where whatsoever. It's 2:50 on a Friday, and I need a beer.
Click to expand...

I just got through working and began to peruse this sight when I saw your post. There are already about 30 replies - which I haven't bothered to read (yet) - so I apologize in advance if my opinions have already been advanced and accepted or rejected.

I would encourage you to fully embrace your anti-authoritarian inclination!

At first I thought your conflict was epistemological. Then I realized you are mixing up two separate branches of philosophy: ethics (or morality), which addresses how an individual behaves, and politics, which addresses how societies should be arranged.

The morality of your altruism is commendable, "it's the Christian way," one person looking out for his fellow humans. Nobody (well, almost nobody, the Nihilists exist after all) disagrees that it is the moral and proper thing to empathize with others.
That's the ethical side of your dilemma.

The political side is where your wheels come off. Politics, the branch that determines how societies should accord themselves, ultimately boils down to force: violence or the threat of violence. Do what you are told or there will be dire consequences. When there is a difference of opinion between segments of a society each side turns to the state to reconcile. When one side loses it makes a determined effort to gain access to the corridors of power so they can assume command and lord it over their "enemy."

My take on your dilemma is this: humans are born with free will. We can agree on that, can't we? If we have free will it would follow that we should be allowed to exercise it. Your altruism says people should help one another (ethically); but you follow that notion with the contradictory assumption that since you (and most people) believe in your ethics it is perfectly proper to force people to behave by your ethics.

Albert J. Nock makes a great point about this as it pertains to Christians. God gave us free will, told us to exercise it with the admonition that if we behaved immorally we would burn in hell. We have to follow His commandments WILLINGLY. When you and your cohorts turn to the state to MAKE us behave that way we are no longer exercising our free will. We're only doing it because we'll suffer in this temporal world at the hands of the state. We are not following God's commandments by our own free will. What are the consequences? Does God give us a pass, or is He insulted by our transgression?

Ultimately you should behave as you think is right and proper, and allow the rest of us to do the same. You should not attempt to use the police power of the state to force your ethics on everybody else. And - ultimately - everything will turn out alright. I regret you have such a negative view of your fellow man. I disagree with you on that. I believe most people will behave in the same manner as you if you allow them to decide to do so on their own.
 
csh said:
I think free market capitalism is great for setting prices for things that we want, but don't need, i.e. cars with heat/air in the seats and imported wood and leather, 72" 4K 3D televisions, stainless steel appliances with wifi connectivity, etc. I question whether a profit motive is the best way to approach medicine, prisons, K-12 education, etc. I guess the conflict comes in that I've never figured out a way to pick/judge the line between need and want, at least not in any scientific manner. In my fictional society, who gets to pick whether a price should be set by a market, vs some government control?

The idea of a basic income seems to make great sense at times. If we didn't have to get in the rat race just to afford the health insurance to stay out of bankruptcy if you break a bone or get infected with some superbug, it seems like some people could contribute more to their strengths. I think of an old Star Trek episode where they thawed out some 21st century humans, and explained to them that mankind no longer functions on the accumulation of wealth. Of course, then I see or hear the stories in this thread, e.g. where a grocery basket full of junk food (or Papa Murphy's) is charged to an EBT, or a Cadillac Escalade pulls up to a charity event to load up on free clothes, blankets, etc. I scratch my head thinking about exactly what the ROI would be on that basic income :)
Click to expand...

Many private schools are non-profits that just have to follow their exempt purpose and avoid conflicts of interest and improper inurement and they can practice private sector best demonstrated practices unhindered from governmental red tape.
 
csh said:
I question whether a profit motive is the best way to approach medicine, prisons, K-12 education, etc. I guess the conflict comes in that I've never figured out a way to pick/judge the line between need and want, at least not in any scientific manner. In my fictional society, who gets to pick whether a price should be set by a market, vs some government control?
Click to expand...
Good call. I've also wrestled with this mentally.
 
Ponca Dan said:
I just got through working and began to peruse this sight when I saw your post. There are already about 30 replies - which I haven't bothered to read (yet) - so I apologize in advance if my opinions have already been advanced and accepted or rejected.

I would encourage you to fully embrace your anti-authoritarian inclination!

At first I thought your conflict was epistemological. Then I realized you are mixing up two separate branches of philosophy: ethics (or morality), which addresses how an individual behaves, and politics, which addresses how societies should be arranged.

The morality of your altruism is commendable, "it's the Christian way," one person looking out for his fellow humans. Nobody (well, almost nobody, the Nihilists exist after all) disagrees that it is the moral and proper thing to empathize with others.
That's the ethical side of your dilemma.

The political side is where your wheels come off. Politics, the branch that determines how societies should accord themselves, ultimately boils down to force: violence or the threat of violence. Do what you are told or there will be dire consequences. When there is a difference of opinion between segments of a society each side turns to the state to reconcile. When one side loses it makes a determined effort to gain access to the corridors of power so they can assume command and lord it over their "enemy."

My take on your dilemma is this: humans are born with free will. We can agree on that, can't we? If we have free will it would follow that we should be allowed to exercise it. Your altruism says people should help one another (ethically); but you follow that notion with the contradictory assumption that since you (and most people) believe in your ethics it is perfectly proper to force people to behave by your ethics.

Albert J. Nock makes a great point about this as it pertains to Christians. God gave us free will, told us to exercise it with the admonition that if we behaved immorally we would burn in hell. We have to follow His commandments WILLINGLY. When you and your cohorts turn to the state to MAKE us behave that way we are no longer exercising our free will. We're only doing it because we'll suffer in this temporal world at the hands of the state. We are not following God's commandments by our own free will. What are the consequences? Does God give us a pass, or is He insulted by our transgression?

Ultimately you should behave as you think is right and proper, and allow the rest of us to do the same. You should not attempt to use the police power of the state to force your ethics on everybody else. And - ultimately - everything will turn out alright. I regret you have such a negative view of your fellow man. I disagree with you on that. I believe most people will behave in the same manner as you if you allow them to decide to do so on their own.
Click to expand...

Well, I was honestly more interested in whether my fellow posters had internal struggles similar to mine rather than a critique of and advice for how to resolve mine.

Thanks for the advice and counsel though.
 
So many people cannot handle freedom. We need public physical punishment, castration and If you get caught with drugs by police you have to consume what you have on your person.

I find myself becoming more authoritarian by the day. I'm sick of the kind of people who interrupt a flowing pleasant society with their thoughtless actions. The national guard needs to be deployed to neighborhood after neighborhood. Kids need to be taken away from shitty parents and liberals need to be jailed as political prisoners.
 
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