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Hey wing nuts no one is coming for your guns

So, you are in favor of declaring a NE to address building a wall, but extremely opposed to Dems using the same tactic to address gun violence in this country? Is that right?

I'm not a big Nancy fan, but she is simply pointing out that a NE is in the eye of the beholder. Seems like a gun rights advocate would be opposed to Trump's plan to use this to build a wall.
 
So, you are in favor of declaring a NE to address building a wall, but extremely opposed to Dems using the same tactic to address gun violence in this country? Is that right?

I'm not a big Nancy fan, but she is simply pointing out that a NE is in the eye of the beholder. Seems like a gun rights advocate would be opposed to Trump's plan to use this to build a wall.
Declaring a National Emergency to trash the 2nd Amendment to the United States Constitution?
 
So, you are in favor of declaring a NE to address building a wall, but extremely opposed to Dems using the same tactic to address gun violence in this country? Is that right?

I'm not a big Nancy fan, but she is simply pointing out that a NE is in the eye of the beholder. Seems like a gun rights advocate would be opposed to Trump's plan to use this to build a wall.
The Constitution is against it.
 
Been the 2nd won't be overturned, in anyone's lifetime that's on this board. One NE requires a change in the constitution, one is at presidential discretion. Notice the difference?

Come on. You are smarter than this.

The 2nd is open to interpretation. For example, you can't go out an purchase a tank or a hand held rocket launcher (at least not legally). Why not? Those are "arms".

The 2nd can be kept, while changing the definition of what is legal to possess and what is illegal.

In addition, a NE can be declared that limits the number of guns that an individual is allowed to own, without a special dispensation. You still have the right to bear arms, you just don't have the right to own more than X number.

A NE can be declared that makes it necessary to jump through multiple hoops to get your hands on any weapon that is semi-auto, or to make it illegal to modify any gun in certain ways.

You guys are all fooling yourself if you think the Dems can't do anything similar to what Trump is trying to do, in order to make an end around and prevent their plans from getting blocked by Congress.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings on Trump's plan for border security. I'm not at all opposed to directing more money toward solving some of the issues. If he makes his NE work, and gets the funding he wants, I'm not going to cry about it. Where the money comes from, and what is weakened, is a concern of mine, but I have no idea how that will shake out.

I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate ITT, but I do think this is not a long term smart move by Trump.
 
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Come on. You are smarter than this.

The 2nd is open to interpretation. For example, you can't go out an purchase a tank or a hand held rocket launcher (at least not legally). Why not? Those are "arms".

The 2nd can be kept, while changing the definition of what is legal to possess and what is illegal.

In addition, a NE can be declared that limits the number of guns that an individual is allowed to own, without a special dispensation. You still have the right to bear arms, you just don't have the right to own more than X number.

A NE can be declared that makes it necessary to jump through multiple hoops to get your hands on any weapon that is semi-auto, or to make it illegal to modify any gun in certain ways.

You guys are all fooling yourself if you think the Dems can't do anything similar to what Trump is trying to do, in order to make an end around and prevent their plans from getting blocked by Congress.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings on Trump's plan for border security. I'm not at all opposed to directing more money toward solving some of the issues. If he makes his NE work, and gets the funding he wants, I'm not going to cry about it. Where the money comes from, and what is weakened, is a concern of mine, but I have no idea how that will shake out.

I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate ITT, but I do think this is not a long term smart move by Trump.
You’re dead wrong on declaring a national emergency to limit numbers of guns, etc. See Heller, etc.
 
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You’re dead wrong on declaring a national emergency to limit numbers of guns, etc. See Heller, etc.

You might want to look again. Heller case specifically stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.

Maybe you are thinking of another case.
 
You might want to look again. Heller case specifically stated that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.

Maybe you are thinking of another case.
And yet overturned a fairly straight forward law in DC.

I’m Not in favor of Trump invoking a NE, BTW. But, Pelosi et al acting like this is unprecedented is hilarious. They had no problem with the rampant abuse of executive power up until about 24 months ago.
 
And yet overturned a fairly straight forward law in DC.

I’m Not in favor of Trump invoking a NE, BTW. But, Pelosi et al acting like this is unprecedented is hilarious. They had no problem with the rampant abuse of executive power up until about 24 months ago.

Do you still feel that the 2nd is unassailable, and Dems can not use a future NE to make changes to current gun ownership laws? Because that seemed to be your stance 2 posts ago.

You’re dead wrong on declaring a national emergency to limit numbers of guns, etc. See Heller, etc.
 
So, you are in favor of declaring a NE to address building a wall, but extremely opposed to Dems using the same tactic to address gun violence in this country? Is that right?

I'm not a big Nancy fan, but she is simply pointing out that a NE is in the eye of the beholder. Seems like a gun rights advocate would be opposed to Trump's plan to use this to build a wall.

What other constitutional amendments should be declare national emergencies on after that? My guess is free speech.
 
In addition, a NE can be declared that limits the number of guns that an individual is allowed to own, without a special dispensation. You still have the right to bear arms, you just don't have the right to own more than X number.

tumblr_lr91azMwPb1qg39ewo1_500.gif
 
Do you still feel that the 2nd is unassailable, and Dems can not use a future NE to make changes to current gun ownership laws? Because that seemed to be your stance 2 posts ago.
Not the types of changes you proposed. They’d be thrown out by the Supreme Court in < 60 days.

If Pelosi, et al, or more pertinently, Obama, thought they could get away with that they certainly wouldn’t wait for Trump. Obama used the NE power in many occasions; some of those declarations are still in effect.
 
So, you are in favor of declaring a NE to address building a wall, but extremely opposed to Dems using the same tactic to address gun violence in this country? Is that right?

I'm not a big Nancy fan, but she is simply pointing out that a NE is in the eye of the beholder. Seems like a gun rights advocate would be opposed to Trump's plan to use this to build a wall.

Jesus Christ.
 
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The Democrats can declare a NE if and when they regain the White House. It would be extremely unpopular in large areas of the country and would be extremely difficult to get a large number of citizens to comply.

Throw in the fact with over 300 million guns in the country and a lawless country at the southern boarder it wouldn't do a damn thing to stop gun violence.
 
Come on. You are smarter than this.

The 2nd is open to interpretation. For example, you can't go out an purchase a tank or a hand held rocket launcher (at least not legally). Why not? Those are "arms".

.

Because they are both considered ordnances
 
What other constitutional amendments should be declare national emergencies on after that? My guess is free speech.

Yep. Since HRC said that a preacher in the US caused Benghazi, the 1A is apparently very capable of starting international conflicts and should be dialed back.
 
Come on. You are smarter than this.

The 2nd is open to interpretation. For example, you can't go out an purchase a tank or a hand held rocket launcher (at least not legally). Why not? Those are "arms".

The 2nd can be kept, while changing the definition of what is legal to possess and what is illegal.

In addition, a NE can be declared that limits the number of guns that an individual is allowed to own, without a special dispensation. You still have the right to bear arms, you just don't have the right to own more than X number.

A NE can be declared that makes it necessary to jump through multiple hoops to get your hands on any weapon that is semi-auto, or to make it illegal to modify any gun in certain ways.

You guys are all fooling yourself if you think the Dems can't do anything similar to what Trump is trying to do, in order to make an end around and prevent their plans from getting blocked by Congress.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings on Trump's plan for border security. I'm not at all opposed to directing more money toward solving some of the issues. If he makes his NE work, and gets the funding he wants, I'm not going to cry about it. Where the money comes from, and what is weakened, is a concern of mine, but I have no idea how that will shake out.

I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate ITT, but I do think this is not a long term smart move by Trump.


Playing Devils Advocate as you said, I can own a fully automatic assault rifle if I want. I can also own a military tank if I so desire. All that is required is a FFL for the fully auto rifle and for the tank to be decommissioned and the gun & firing control system's disabled.
 
Come on. You are smarter than this.

The 2nd is open to interpretation. For example, you can't go out an purchase a tank or a hand held rocket launcher (at least not legally). Why not? Those are "arms".

The 2nd can be kept, while changing the definition of what is legal to possess and what is illegal.

In addition, a NE can be declared that limits the number of guns that an individual is allowed to own, without a special dispensation. You still have the right to bear arms, you just don't have the right to own more than X number.

A NE can be declared that makes it necessary to jump through multiple hoops to get your hands on any weapon that is semi-auto, or to make it illegal to modify any gun in certain ways.

You guys are all fooling yourself if you think the Dems can't do anything similar to what Trump is trying to do, in order to make an end around and prevent their plans from getting blocked by Congress.

To be honest, I have mixed feelings on Trump's plan for border security. I'm not at all opposed to directing more money toward solving some of the issues. If he makes his NE work, and gets the funding he wants, I'm not going to cry about it. Where the money comes from, and what is weakened, is a concern of mine, but I have no idea how that will shake out.

I'm mostly just playing Devil's Advocate ITT, but I do think this is not a long term smart move by Trump.

Been I think we are talking about two different subjects. I'm saying the 2nd will never been done away with, which I think you are agreeing with. Your saying a president or other legislative body could try and restrict ownership, numbers and so on. Fair enough, but won't ever pass muster I subsequent supreme court actions

I'm all for crazy people not having access to weapons (who determines who's crazy or not?), felons, people with restraining orders and so on. Each and every innocent killed by a weapon is a trudged, but by that logic how can you stop deaths from drunk driving?

I have many friends who don't own weapons, have never shot a weapon and don't see a need for owning weapons. They are sheep being led to slaughter. Who would own weapons if all law abiding Americans didn't?

Here is an angle that most people don't understand don't want to understand. Some people, like me are gun collectors, we don't shoot that often, but we collect weapons. My niche is 1900 - 1946 bolt action rifles, with a preference for US, Canadian, UK and German bolt action rifles. Last year I bought four K98 Mauser's, all made in the same factory in Austria (you know where they speak Austrian). They are years 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1944 with all matching serial numbers on every part (and the Germans market everything up until the later stages of 44 and into 45). I'm still wanting a 1939, 1940 and 1945 from the same factory and if the opportunity avails itself will buy a deaths head model. But here is the deal...they are locked away an won't ever be shot. Unlike the coins I use to collect they appreciate yearly especially those in good to excellent condition with all matching serial numbers. I have another one that's a mix of numbers and marks, so that is my shooter. There are lots of people being vilified for owning weapons and never have done anything wrong. And before you say that's the same paintbrush we use with illegals, I'll remind you that the first thing they did to get on US soil was to break the law.

Have some other more collectable weapons as well as an AR-15. The AR is for plunking around and target shooting but it is one of the few long weapons I keep at hand in the house. The rest are all in a very secure area away from my home, for obvious reasons.

These are mostly liquid assets for the future and anyone who thinks thats insane needs to go online and see what some of these things sell for. I recently saw an auction for an SS sniper rifle with the original Austrian made scope and the bid started at 20K, sure it went past 30K before it was all said and done. Near mint condition, all matching serial numbers and rare marking with an original scope.

The last official federal report I saw said that gun violence in the US was actually declining. I'll look through my saved docs and see

Any public official who advocates gun quotas, restricting ownership without a lawfully valid reason or in general campaigns on the premise/promise they will end private gun ownership will get crushed by an election, the courts or both.
 
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Playing Devils Advocate as you said, I can own a fully automatic assault rifle if I want. I can also own a military tank if I so desire. All that is required is a FFL for the fully auto rifle and for the tank to be decommissioned and the gun & firing control system's disabled.

OK, so, is it possible for the government to change the law so that a FFL is required to buy a new semi-auto weapon without running afoul of the 2nd A?
 
OK, so, is it possible for the government to change the law so that a FFL is required to buy a new semi-auto weapon without running afoul of the 2nd A?

"The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

It's plain English constitutionally. Individuals don't need permission from the state to own anything.

Your question is how much of the Constitution are you willing to trample.
 
Been I think we are talking about two different subjects. I'm saying the 2nd will never been done away with, which I think you are agreeing with. Your saying a president or other legislative body could try and restrict ownership, numbers and so on. Fair enough, but won't ever pass muster I subsequent supreme court actions

I'm all for crazy people not having access to weapons (who determines who's crazy or not?), felons, people with restraining orders and so on. Each and every innocent killed by a weapon is a trudged, but by that logic how can you stop deaths from drunk driving?

I have many friends who don't own weapons, have never shot a weapon and don't see a need for owning weapons. They are sheep being led to slaughter. Who would own weapons if all law abiding Americans didn't?

Here is an angle that most people don't understand don't want to understand. Some people, like me are gun collectors, we don't shoot that often, but we collect weapons. My niche is 1900 - 1946 bolt action rifles, with a preference for US, Canadian, UK and German bolt action rifles. Last year I bought four K98 Mauser's, all made in the same factory in Austria (you know where they speak Austrian). They are years 1941, 1942, 1943 and 1944 with all matching serial numbers on every part (and the Germans market everything up until the later stages of 44 and into 45). I'm still wanting a 1939, 1940 and 1945 from the same factory and if the opportunity avails itself will buy a deaths head model. But here is the deal...they are locked away an won't ever be shot. Unlike the coins I use to collect they appreciate yearly especially those in good to excellent condition with all matching serial numbers. I have another one that's a mix of numbers and marks, so that is my shooter. There are lots of people being vilified for owning weapons and never have done anything wrong. And before you say that's the same paintbrush we use with illegals, I'll remind you that the first thing they did to get on US soil was to break the law.

Have some other more collectable weapons as well as an AR-15. The AR is for plunking around and target shooting but it is one of the few long weapons I keep at hand in the house. The rest are all in a very secure area away from my home, for obvious reasons.

These are mostly liquid assets for the future and anyone who thinks thats insane needs to go online and see what some of these things sell for. I recently saw an auction for an SS sniper rifle with the original Austrian made scope and the bid started at 20K, sure it went past 30K before it was all said and done. Near mint condition, all matching serial numbers and rare marking with an original scope.

The last official federal report I saw said that gun violence in the US was actually declining. I'll look through my saved docs and see

Any public official who advocates gun quotas, restricting ownership without a lawfully valid reason or in general campaigns on the premise/promise they will end private gun ownership will get crushed by an election, the courts or both.

I agree with everything you posted. The only gun I own is a Red Rider BB Gun with a compass on the stock and a thing that tells time. But, I think your collection sounds really cool, and I know that if I saw it, I would enjoy the time I spent listening to you talk about your guns, and the time I spent looking at them and learning about them.

I don't think the 2nd A is ever going away, and I don't want it to. I agree that if future President Pelosi (or whoever the next Dem POTUS is) were to declare a NE to try to enact new gun laws, there is a good chance that it wouldn't make it through the courts. But, I think the same applies to Trump's NE. That hasn't stopped him from giving it a go.

My entire point is that you guys who are excited about Trump's NE declaration, and think it won't be used by Dems in the future are being naive. Maybe it will be climate change. Maybe it will be gun control. There are all kinds of changes that can be made that won't result in a revolution and won't significantly affect people like you, but might result in some reduction of access to guns by people who are inclined to commit violent crimes.
 
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"The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

It's plain English constitutionally. Individuals don't need permission from the state to own anything.

Your question is how much of the Constitution are you willing to trample.

The Constitution gives us the right to walk around sleeveless and decline amputations? Who knew?
 
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"The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

It's plain English constitutionally. Individuals don't need permission from the state to own anything.

Your question is how much of the Constitution are you willing to trample.

Seriously though. You have to have an FFL to own an automatic weapon. Does that requirement trample the Constitution? Is it infringing on your "right to bear arms"?
 
Seriously though. You have to have an FFL to own an automatic weapon. Does that requirement trample the Constitution? Is it infringing on your "right to bear arms"?

Does the definition of infringe change based on your personal opinion?
 
The statistic that made me extremely anti politicians tinkering with gun rights is this:


There are around 14,000 firearms homicides each year in the USA.

Source: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm


Around 25,000 people die each year from drinking sugary drinks.

Source: https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-sugary-soda-death-toll-20150629-story.html

Can you link the articles that detail all of the times a sugary drink was used to murder someone, or rob a bank, or take someone captive?
 
Can you link the articles that detail all of the times a sugary drink was used to murder someone, or rob a bank, or take someone captive?

It's well documented that hospitals kill at least 10 times the people guns do and it's 100% preventable.

Medical error is like the #2 or 3 leading cause of death for Americans
 
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