Healthcare in Canada.....

[windriverrange]

https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._care_system_thats_the_envy_of_the_world.html

Working for a Canadian company, hear these types of stories all the time. If you have the money, or are willing to borrow the money you move to the front of a private care line. If you don't, tough crap.....would anyone in congress subject themselves to the same care this women did?

 

[OKSTATE1]

The liberal elites make more money this way

 

[Rdcldad]

but otardcare provides healthcare for all americans

you can even keep your doctor!

 

[Medic007]

https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._care_system_thats_the_envy_of_the_world.html

Working for a Canadian company, hear these types of stories all the time. If you have the money, or are willing to borrow the money you move to the front of a private care line. If you don't, tough crap.....would anyone in congress subject themselves to the same care this women did?

All of that nonsense when a simple discectomy fixes the actual problem.

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

From 1991 to May, 2003, I did business in Ontario and British Columbia. Canada has a single pay RATIONED Medicaid style health care system. I've logged a bunch of hours at Blaine, WA U. S. Customs where chartered Canadian buses every business day are going south filled with Canadians paying for health care.

A number of times, I've sat on the bus stop bench at Rich Foods in down town Buffalo visiting with Canadians in the U. S. to pay for doctor appointments.

I have seen U. S. Nationals in Windsor's drug stores filling prescriptions.

I've listened to Windsor's 50,000 watt CKLW-AM news-talk radio rag on Canada's heath care a lot.

I don't want Karl Sanders and his communist buddies' RATIONED health care plan.

 

[Syskatine]

U.S. Insurance-rationed health care sucks.

Long wait times, can't get into specialists. People can't get insulin because of free market gouging.

Middle class can't afford health insurance.

Hey @Sunburnt Indian who pays for your health insurance?

 

[poke2001]

U.S. Insurance-rationed health care sucks.

Long wait times, can't get into specialists. People can't get insulin because of free market gouging.

Middle class can't afford health insurance.

Hey @Sunburnt Indian who pays for your health insurance?

I’ve never experienced any of the things you mentioned.

 

[Syskatine]

I’ve never experienced any of the things you mentioned.

That stuff exits daily. Go get a pancreas appointment or schedule a biopsy because of a probably cancer diagnosis. Then go get some great oncology without health insurance. Hell an Ok Co. jury just hit a health carrier for over $20mm for bad faith denial of cancer care. You can't get that kind of enforcement if it's coverage through an employer -- Congress let the unelected insurer with their adhesion contracts have immunity for anything above the value of the denied services.

Who pays for you and your family's health insurance?

 

[poke2001]

That stuff exits daily. Go get a pancreas appointment or schedule a biopsy because of a probably cancer diagnosis. Then go get some great oncology without health insurance. Hell an Ok Co. jury just hit a health carrier for over $20mm for bad faith denial of cancer care. You can't get that kind of enforcement if it's coverage through an employer -- Congress let the unelected insurer with their adhesion contracts have immunity for anything above the value of the denied services.

Who pays for you and your family's health insurance?

I’ve got friends and family that have done all of that and did not have any issues with receiving timely care.

 

[Syskatine]

Here's a great glimpse into the U.S. health care system: the obscene number of bankruptcies from the medical bills that destroy people financially.

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html

 

[poke2001]

Here's a great glimpse into the U.S. health care system: the obscene number of bankruptcies from the medical bills that destroy people financially.

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for-bankruptcy.html

Like most leftists, you are confusing access with cost. Your idiot ideas make it cost less, but you lose access in return (as OP suggested).

 

[Syskatine]

I’ve got friends and family that have done all of that and did not have any issues with receiving timely care.

What's your point? Since it doesn't happen to you or yours if doesn't happen? I have friends and family that go to the Mayo clinic for pancreas issues because you can literally fly to Florida and get in before getting into the guy here in Oklahoma. It was faster to get the biopsy in Houston instead of calling around here to get one. Another client needed an appendectomy yesterday and was calling around trying to find someone that would do it where she could pay it out.

You didn't respond to the question about insurance. Who pays for you and your family's insurance?

 

[Syskatine]

Like most leftists, you are confusing access with cost. Your idiot ideas make it cost less, but you lose access in return (as OP suggested).

There's no confusion -- both are huge problems right here. And it doesn't take long for any policy debate with a conservative to reduce to "idiot" and snarky shit. You're drawing the distinction between access and cost and I'm ripping BOTH. That makes nobody an idiot. We don't have timely access right here, it's a way of life. we have a government agency that pays off Dr's loans to get them to come to rural Oklahoma. Go to Okmulgee and sit in a creditor meeting docket and listen to all the people there from medical bills.

You still haven't answered my question -- who pays for the health insurance of you and yours? You know where this is going, too.

 

[poke2001]

There's no confusion -- both are huge problems right here. And it doesn't take long for any policy debate with a conservative to reduce to "idiot" and snarky shit. You're drawing the distinction between access and cost and I'm ripping BOTH. That makes nobody an idiot. We don't have timely access right here, it's a way of life. we have a government agency that pays off Dr's loans to get them to come to rural Oklahoma. Go to Okmulgee and sit in a creditor meeting docket and listen to all the people there from medical bills.

You still haven't answered my question -- who pays for the health insurance of you and yours? You know where this is going, too.

I’m employed so my employer pays about 90%.

 

[Syskatine]

I’m employed so my employer pays about 90%.

LOL of course you don't see any problems. Everyone should just have an institution pick up the bill and then there's no problem. When you're on the second floor that flood isn't nearly as bad as when you're on the first floor.

I'm telling you -- for the entrepreneur, like @MegaPoke and Syskatine, the cost of insurance, deductibles, and co pays is outrageous. As an employer, the cost of covering employees is outrageous. You may think the entire country should just go to work for someone else, but when it's gotten to the point that your middle class and successful entrepreneurs can't navigate this system it's bad.

And your health care plan -- you'll think it's real good until it's not. You can't sue the carrier for anything above the value of the denied services. You'll understand exactly what that means when they deny an effective cancer treatment. THEN you'll see the problem with allowing big business to decide what health care they do and don't have to pay for.

 

[poke2001]

LOL of course you don't see any problems. Everyone should just have an institution pick up the bill and then there's no problem. When you're on the second floor that flood isn't nearly as bad as when you're on the first floor.

I'm telling you -- for the entrepreneur, like @MegaPoke and Syskatine, the cost of insurance, deductibles, and co pays is outrageous. As an employer, the cost of covering employees is outrageous. You may think the entire country should just go to work for someone else, but when it's gotten to the point that your middle class and successful entrepreneurs can't navigate this system it's bad.

And your health care plan -- you'll think it's real good until it's not. You can't sue the carrier for anything above the value of the denied services. You'll understand exactly what that means when they deny an effective cancer treatment. THEN you'll see the problem with allowing big business to decide what health care they do and don't have to pay for.

You do understand that when my employer pays for a piece of my insurance, they are taking that out of what my salary would be, right? It’s total compensation.

Also, didn’t ACA fix all that?

 

[Syskatine]

You do understand that when my employer pays for a piece of my insurance, they are taking that out of what my salary would be, right? It’s total compensation.

Also, didn’t ACA fix all that?

Yes, you just articulately stated your employer pays 90%. I'd defend the current system, too, you're stable-fed, you're not out there in the wild having to hustle for it. 2/3 of bankruptcies are from health care, you think that's a good system?

 

[poke2001]

Yes, you just articulately stated your employer pays 90%. I'd defend the current system, too, you're stable-fed, you're not out there in the wild having to hustle for it. 2/3 of bankruptcies are from health care, you think that's a good system?

I’m sorry I have a good job. It’s likely my white privilege.

You choose not to work for a corporation. It’s admirable, we need guys out taking risks, but it’s a choice.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Here's a great glimpse into the U.S. health care system: the obscene number of bankruptcies from the medical bills that destroy people financially.

A new study from academic researchers found that 66.5 percent of all bankruptcies were tied to medical issues —either because of high costs for care or time out of work. An estimated 530,000 families turn to bankruptcy each year because of medical issues and bills, the research found.://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/this-is-the-real-reason-most-americans-file-for- bankruptcy.html

I have a couple of questions.

First, the linked article cites “a new study from academic researchers,” but waits until deep into the article to explain the researchers are from a group dedicated to “Medicare for all.” In your opinion why should any of us accept research results from a group whose intention is to show a desired result before conducting its study?

Second the results show that bankruptcies are the result of “high costs of care OR time out of work.” What percentage is caused by “time out of work?” And if a person suffers a devastating medical trauma that causes him to miss so much work it forces him into bankruptcy, but he is receiving medical care while missing work, why would you blame health care or health insurance for his bankruptcy?

 

[Syskatine]

I’m sorry I have a good job. It’s likely my white privilege.

You choose not to work for a corporation. It’s admirable, we need guys out taking risks, but it’s a choice.

Sorry, but we just can't design a health care system that accommodates only people that aren't willing to create jobs and take risks.

Hell your entire health care ideology is just conserve your self interest, you have yours, why can't everyone else do the same? And I'm engaging this.

 

[Syskatine]

I have a couple of questions.

First, the linked article cites “a new study from academic researchers,” but waits until deep into the article to explain the researchers are from a group dedicated to “Medicare for all.” In your opinion why should any of us accept research results from a group whose intention is to show a desired result before conducting its study?

Second the results show that bankruptcies are the result of “high costs of care OR time out of work.” What percentage is caused by “time out of work?” And if a person suffers a devastating medical trauma that causes him to miss so much work it forces him into bankruptcy, but he is receiving medical care while missing work, why would you blame health care or health insurance for his bankruptcy?

First, you'd have to look at the academic paper and evaluate it. If it's peer reviewed, then it's generally reliable. If not, then the bias is an issue. I get it -- I don't read your cites either because of their slant.

Second, I don't know. I have heard that if you back out medical bills, then credit cards are the next and distant second motivator behind personal bankruptcy filings. I've heard this for years, googled it, posted the first thing that came up. I've had federal bankruptcy court personnel talk at length about medical bills as the driver, and have a sophisticated client that does not hold bad credit from medical bills against applicants because it's so understood that sickness = bankruptcy.

As always, I'm looking to be challenged. I don't think you're going to effectively challenge that argument (2/3 of bankruptices are from medical issues) by saying, "Well, only 40 percent of financially devastated americans can blame medical bills." That would also be over the top.

 

[Ponca Dan]

There's no confusion -- both are huge problems right here. And it doesn't take long for any policy debate with a conservative to reduce to "idiot" and snarky shit. You're drawing the distinction between access and cost and I'm ripping BOTH. That makes nobody an idiot. We don't have timely access right here, it's a way of life. we have a government agency that pays off Dr's loans to get them to come to rural Oklahoma. Go to Okmulgee and sit in a creditor meeting docket and listen to all the people there from medical bills.

You still haven't answered my question -- who pays for the health insurance of you and yours? You know where this is going, too.

You say there is no confusion, but I’m confused. You say there is no access to medical care, there are very long wait times to specialists, especially in rural areas. But then you say people can get right into a specialist if he travels to Florida or Houston. So it seems to me a person does have quick access, he just has to be willing to go where the access is.

It’s the same as saying people in rural areas don’t have access to Lowe’s or Home Depot unless they travel to a city. Should the government require that there be a Lowe’s or Home Depot at every crossroads in America? What principle applies to access to health care or health insurance that does not apply to access to Lowe’s or Home Depot?

Lastly, several people have talked about the lack of access to health care under socialist plans like Canada has, unless they pony up the money to sneak to the head of the line. What is it about the socialized medicine you want for America that would prevent the same thing from happening here?

 

[Ponca Dan]

First, you'd have to look at the academic paper and evaluate it. If it's peer reviewed, then it's generally reliable. If not, then the bias is an issue. I get it -- I don't read your cites either because of their slant.

Second, I don't know. I have heard that if you back out medical bills, then credit cards are the next and distant second motivator behind personal bankruptcy filings. I've heard this for years, googled it, posted the first thing that came up. I've had federal bankruptcy court personnel talk at length about medical bills as the driver, and have a sophisticated client that does not hold bad credit from medical bills against applicants because it's so understood that sickness = bankruptcy.

As always, I'm looking to be challenged. I don't think you're going to effectively challenge that argument (2/3 of bankruptices are from medical issues) by saying, "Well, only 40 percent of financially devastated americans can blame medical bills." That would also be over the top.

First, it dismays me that you don’t read my links. I read yours (most of the time). My cites are usually opinion pieces and are advertised as such. Your link seemed to me to be an opinion piece that pretended it is science. Reminds me of the global warming debacle.

Second, if the article wants to be taken seriously it would be incumbent on it to separate out the “time out of work” portion. It is obvious to cynics like me the “study” was doing everything in its power to make things look as bad as possible. That is decidedly unscientific. Policies should be based on truth, don’t you agree?

 

[Syskatine]

First, it dismays me that you don’t read my links. I read yours (most of the time). My cites are usually opinion pieces and are advertised as such. Your link seemed to me to be an opinion piece that pretended it is science. Reminds me of the global warming debacle.

Second, if the article wants to be taken seriously it would be incumbent on it to separate out the “time out of work” portion. It is obvious to cynics like me the “study” was doing everything in its power to make things look as bad as possible. That is decidedly unscientific. Policies should be based on truth, don’t you agree?

Yes Dan, policies should be based on truth.

 

[Syskatine]

First, it dismays me that you don’t read my links. I read yours (most of the time). My cites are usually opinion pieces and are advertised as such. Your link seemed to me to be an opinion piece that pretended it is science. Reminds me of the global warming debacle.

Second, if the article wants to be taken seriously it would be incumbent on it to separate out the “time out of work” portion. It is obvious to cynics like me the “study” was doing everything in its power to make things look as bad as possible. That is decidedly unscientific. Policies should be based on truth, don’t you agree?

And Dan, no offense, I don't read much partisan opinion from either side. It's all opinion now and that's the last thing I want. That is a news article with a link to the study with all the specificity you could want. It cites sources on the first page and then it wants paid for access, like most academic papers. The journal article may be accessible elsewhere if you want to look for it. It looks pretty credibly sourced to me. The blurb about half consumer debt that goes to credit agencies being medical bills is an attention getter.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Yes Dan, policies should be based on truth.

Look at that, we found something on which we can agree! How was it Joe Biden put it: we should believe the truth over facts. (Ya gotta love good old Joe!)

 

[poke2001]

Sorry, but we just can't design a health care system that accommodates only people that aren't willing to create jobs and take risks.

Hell your entire health care ideology is just conserve your self interest, you have yours, why can't everyone else do the same? And I'm engaging this.

It’s pretty sad how much you think you know but truly don’t.

 

[Medic007]

I have friends and family that go to the Mayo clinic for pancreas issues because you can literally fly to Florida and get in before getting into the guy here in Oklahoma. It was faster to get the biopsy in Houston instead of calling around here to get one. Another client needed an appendectomy yesterday and was calling around trying to find someone that would do it where she could pay it out.

Someone couldn't get into an endocrinologist in OK?

Who decided that your client needed an appendectomy yesterday? Did a physician diagnose her with appendicitis?

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

I still crack up at the Canadian doctor who angered his government. "My dog get's back surgery on Wednesday.. For me? It's a two year wait."