GOT 5/22

[JonnyVito]

Bran can't die before he crosses the wall. Him being marked by the king WW and crossing the wall will be the what enables the white walkers to cross the magical boundary that has kept them out. Also FU Martin Hondor was a gentle soul and now he will be an undead I am also tired of them making me get dust in my eyes.

 

[MegaPoke]

Solid episode.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Sansa's Wolf died like 42 years ago.

Robb's died after he did.

Jon died once before his.

So far no correlation between Wolf Death and Stark Death.

Gonna assume you're just being obtuse. There's been almost a one to one correlation, as the book tells you clearly, between the wolves and their Stark kid.

1) Lady dies, Sansa cut off completely from the rest of the Stark's, subject to all kinds of degradation and humiliation. By all rights, this is the weakest connection of the six because Sansa should have been dead by now if the connection was 100% linear.
2) Nymeria set free, goes on to roam wild and lead a huge pack of killers. Arya set free, runs wild and goes on to become a vicious killer. Now in training to be an even worse killer. Both free but wild.
3) Shaggy Dog and Rickon. The two wildest, most vicious of the bunch. Personalities almost identical. Not much else known.
4) Ghost and Jon: alive together, work together, the bond is obvious. When Jon is killed, Ghost lies at his feet (according to the show) and looks dead too.
5) Grey Wind and Robb: fight together, die together. If you say he died after Robb, I guess 5-10 minutes is technically "after".
6) Summer and Bran: difficult to say what's really happening currently because the show is not the central source of GOT canon, but Summer just died and Bran is in dire straits. Not a stretch to suggest these conditions are related, given that Bran and Summer had the strongest connection of all the Stark's.

 

[Cowpoke]

Gonna assume you're just being obtuse. There's been almost a one to one correlation, as the book tells you clearly, between the wolves and their Stark kid.

1) Lady dies, Sansa cut off completely from the rest of the Stark's, subject to all kinds of degradation and humiliation. By all rights, this is the weakest connection of the six because Sansa should have been dead by now if the connection was 100% linear.
2) Nymeria set free, goes on to roam wild and lead a huge pack of killers. Arya set free, runs wild and goes on to become a vicious killer. Now in training to be an even worse killer. Both free but wild.
3) Shaggy Dog and Rickon. The two wildest, most vicious of the bunch. Personalities almost identical. Not much else known.
4) Ghost and Jon: alive together, work together, the bond is obvious. When Jon is killed, Ghost lies at his feet (according to the show) and looks dead too.
5) Grey Wind and Robb: fight together, die together. If you say he died after Robb, I guess 5-10 minutes is technically "after".
6) Summer and Bran: difficult to say what's really happening currently because the show is not the central source of GOT canon, but Summer just died and Bran is in dire straits. Not a stretch to suggest these conditions are related, given that Bran and Summer had thestrongest connection of all the Stark's.

And yet the death of a Direwolf has yet to predict a death of a Stark. I know what you are saying, that was my gut reaction as well when the dog died. But looking back, death hasn't equaled death. I think Bran just doesn't have a need for the wolf anymore so the show killed it off. Dude can travel time and space, warg into anything. He doesn't need to warg into Summer any more.

 

[Been Jammin]

@100TonsofOrangeFury

Kind of a stretch. As you point out, no correlation between what happened to Lady and what has happened to Sansa.

Nymeria is leading a huge pack of killer wolves. Arya is training to become a killer (and has killed), but she is leading no one.

Ghost didn't die with Jon like you point out Grey Wind did with Robb. If your dialogue was accurate, Ghost would die and be brought back from the dead.

Besides, you know as well as I do, that Summer just died (in the show) and Bran isn't dying anytime soon.

 

[Cowpoke]

Bran can't die before he crosses the wall. Him being marked by the king WW and crossing the wall will be the what enables the white walkers to cross the magical boundary that has kept them out.

Solid point.

Also... good call...

 

[CBradSmith]

Hahaha

I busted out laughing at that shot.

 

[MajorMike_Ret]

Haha I can count the # of posts I have liked on 2 hands but that shot gets a thumb.

 

[Cowpoke]

Hahaha

I busted out laughing at that shot.

I think my neighbors heard me when I saw it.

 

[FMPoke]

Gonna assume you're just being obtuse. There's been almost a one to one correlation, as the book tells you clearly, between the wolves and their Stark kid.

1) Lady dies, Sansa cut off completely from the rest of the Stark's, subject to all kinds of degradation and humiliation. By all rights, this is the weakest connection of the six because Sansa should have been dead by now if the connection was 100% linear.
2) Nymeria set free, goes on to roam wild and lead a huge pack of killers. Arya set free, runs wild and goes on to become a vicious killer. Now in training to be an even worse killer. Both free but wild.
3) Shaggy Dog and Rickon. The two wildest, most vicious of the bunch. Personalities almost identical. Not much else known.
4) Ghost and Jon: alive together, work together, the bond is obvious. When Jon is killed, Ghost lies at his feet (according to the show) and looks dead too.
5) Grey Wind and Robb: fight together, die together. If you say he died after Robb, I guess 5-10 minutes is technically "after".
6) Summer and Bran: difficult to say what's really happening currently because the show is not the central source of GOT canon, but Summer just died and Bran is in dire straits. Not a stretch to suggest these conditions are related, given that Bran and Summer had the strongest connection of all the Stark's.

Forgot about Nymeria. In the books the connection is much clearer as Arya actually wargs into Nymeria in her Dreams. As far as I can recall that storyline has been left out of HBO.

 

[MajorMike_Ret]

I found this interactive map and I didn't realize that Bran was so far north.

I also didn't realize the Iron Isles were so much further south than Winterfell. For some reason I imagined them like the Hebrides, WNW of Scotland.

http://quartermaester.info/

 

[Cowpoke]

I found this interactive map and I didn't realize that Bran was so far north.

I also didn't realize the Iron Isles were so much further south than Winterfell. For some reason I imagined them like the Hebrides, WNW of Scotland.

http://quartermaester.info/

That is extremely cool. I like that you can switch between show and books

 

[The Duke]

I found this interactive map and I didn't realize that Bran was so far north.

I also didn't realize the Iron Isles were so much further south than Winterfell. For some reason I imagined them like the Hebrides, WNW of Scotland.

http://quartermaester.info/

Check out how far north Braavos is....

 

[Been Jammin]

Check out how far north Braavos is....

It isn't that far north. About even with the Neck. Northernmost point of Essos, but Westeros extends much further North.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

@100TonsofOrangeFury

Kind of a stretch. As you point out, no correlation between what happened to Lady and what has happened to Sansa.

Nymeria is leading a huge pack of killer wolves. Arya is training to become a killer (and has killed), but she is leading no one.

Ghost didn't die with Jon like you point out Grey Wind did with Robb. If your dialogue was accurate, Ghost would die and be brought back from the dead.

Besides, you know as well as I do, that Summer just died (in the show) and Bran isn't dying anytime soon.

I feel like the old schoolmarm trying literature to teach 9th grade stoners. You guys are going WAY out of your way to dismiss five books worth of extremely weird but very clear connections so you can convince yourselves that Bran is in no danger.

The attempts to dismiss the connections by citing very minor, technical discrepancies (really, Summer should have died for a few days?? Arya's and Nymeria's paths are extremely similar but it's dismissed because Arya is not leading anyone?? LOL) between the fate of the wolves and the Starks is bizarre. Martin has thrown it out there very obviously on dozens and dozens of occasions, but it's all coincidence?

Believe whatever you like, when shit goes bad for the wolf, it goes bad for the Stark. It's not coincidence. Whether the show runners adhere to it like Martin does is anyone's guess, but they've not deviated too far on this point so far.

 

[Been Jammin]

Now I think you are just trolling.

 

[CBradSmith]

Rewatched it tonight. Again, great episode. The conversation on the staircase with the Red priestess, Varys, and Tyrion was very well done by all parties.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I thought the Bran part was just horribly written. He's 'touched' by the WW in his dream travels and that nullifies all the protections of the tree and possibly the wall if he goes south of it? Just like that? I thought that was contrived and lazy writing. Then a zombie movies broke out. I like zombie movies. Just not in the middle of a dragon story. Again, lazy story telling. And Bran is supposed to be one of the most important characters but we've not seen him for a year? Come on. His story line should just be a vehicle to tell historical points for context.

 

[JonnyVito]

Ok so I just read an article about a possible GOT theory that Sansa could be pregnant. It came from the line that Sansa said to Littlefinger about still feeling inside her what Ramsey did to her and it wasn't in her heart. That is interesting. I was thinking more along the lines of how being raped might damage a persons personal areas but her being pregnant really could make sense with that line. God I hope this isn't true, that poor child. Also I am not buying into the idea that Littlefinger is watching out for Sansa with the Blackfish news he is up to something and it will benefit him and only him. How I am not yet sure maybe he thinks they need them also to over throw Ramsey and if Sansa is in charge rather then Jon Snow then he can manipulate her easier then Jon. Something is up there I know it.

 

[Cowpoke]

I thought the Bran part was just horribly written. He's 'touched' by the WW in his dream travels and that nullifies all the protections of the tree and possibly the wall if he goes south of it? Just like that? I thought that was contrived and lazy writing. Then a zombie movies broke out. I like zombie movies. Just not in the middle of a dragon story. Again, lazy story telling. And Bran is supposed to be one of the most important characters but we've not seen him for a year? Come on. His story line should just be a vehicle to tell historical points for context.

I kept thinking WWZ during that scene. But really, thats what the wrights are.. zombies. Kinda agree on the "touched by by a WW" bit. That needed some backstory, explanation, something. I really liked the escape scene, but have been let down by his training. I think that could have been pretty interesting. They just don't have enough time I guess.

 

[MajorMike_Ret]

You know, my buddy and I have had this line if discussion about Star Wars vs Star Trek.

In Star Wars, things just ARE. In Stat Trek, they go thru great lengths to explain how and why something is.

For example, in SW, ships go light speed, there are light sabers, everyone understands everyone no matter what language or beep you speak and all is well.

In ST, they have warp speed which is powered by warp drives which use dilythium crystals which are only found.... and so on.

To him, it's one of the reasons we all hate midichlorians, because you don't need that level of detail in SW.

Don't Star Trek GOT, just let it Star Wars.

 

[Been Jammin]

You know, my buddy and I have had this line if discussion about Star Wars vs Star Trek.

In Star Wars, things just ARE. In Stat Trek, they go thru great lengths to explain how and why something is.

For example, in SW, ships go light speed, there are light sabers, everyone understands everyone no matter what language or beep you speak and all is well.

In ST, they have warp speed which is powered by warp drives which use dilythium crystals which are only found.... and so on.

To him, it's one of the reasons we all hate midichlorians, because you don't need that level of detail in SW.

Don't Star Trek GOT, just let it Star Wars.

Very interesting point that I had never thought about.

I think GRRM does a good job of not doing what you are pointing out. In the books, we know that there used to be dragons, and white walkers, and magic wielding individuals who could make themselves look like someone else, and direwolves, etc.

When Book 1 begins, we get the impression that it has been this way for 50-100 years. The Starks are surprised to find living direwolves. The WW are mythological creatures that no one believes truly existed. No one has seen a living dragon for 100 years. As the series progresses, it becomes more and more clear that magical creatures/occurrences are returning to the world. Yet, no one really wonders what happened to the magic and no one really takes the time to explain it. So far, no one has seemed to put 2 and 2 together and realize that magic is reappearing all over Westeros and Essos. Thoros is surprised that he is able to revive Dondarion and can't explain it. Those that now know the WW are back do not consider the possibility that maybe something has changed that allows for the re-emergence of them and the Dragons.

The world and the rules are changing, but (so far) no one seems to realize that it is happening.

I think your point is that we don't need Bran to take us back into the past and tell us more details about what the WW are and where they have been for 100+ years. We don't need Bran to show us what happened to Hodor.

The way I see it, good writing is good writing. Both types can work if they are done well. We don't need to know why magic is returning. We just need to see that it is. However, if the "Night's King putting his mark on Bran" is going to end up being the key event that ends up allowing the WW to get through the wall, then we need to know that. There has to be a reason that they have been gone from the world for long enough that the Wildlings didn't seem to know they existed. And, there has to be another reason that they have not made it south of the wall since they reappeared at least 2 years prior.

 

[Ostatedchi]

Yeah, the touching of Bran seems to be a pivotal event and it has no set up what-so-ever. Just sloppy storytelling. The entire Bran story line has been poorly told for the past few years. Hell they skipped his total presence last season. The 3 eyed raven was a horrible character as were the first children. The entire training of Bran was haphazard.

 

[Been Jammin]

Yeah, the touching of Bran seems to be a pivotal event and it has no set up what-so-ever. Just sloppy storytelling. The entire Bran story line has been poorly told for the past few years. Hell they skipped his total presence last season. The 3 eyed raven was a horrible character as were the first children. The entire training of Bran was haphazard.

Just curious. Have you read the books?

Overall, I don't disagree with any of your points (as far as the show goes). All of your complaints are true for the books, IMO. We don't know if the touching of Bran happens in the books. I think the 3 Eyed Raven is a great character (books) and what we have seen of his interaction with Bran, and his training of Bran, has been pretty strong and well done.

As far as HBO goes, I don't have a big problem with them leaving Bran out of last season. In hindsight, they probably should have slowed his story down from the beginning, but they ended up in a situation where his timeline was much further along than other characters. They could have done a few boring look ins on him last season, but it would have taken away from time they could spend on other characters, and nothing much would have happened when they were with him.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I read the first few books, then got lost in book 3 or 4. The training of Bran by the 3ER in the books might be solid where he has time to expand on the subject. In the series it was just dumb.

 

[JonnyVito]

I think Sunday's episode is going to be badass. I read that the young Ned Stark is listed in the cast list so hopefully more of the Tower of Joy scene will be shown. I bet they tease us all season on that one though and they finally show the end in episode 10. Anyone else pumped to meet Sam's dad? Will Arrya do as she is told and take out the actress? Also looking at the description an old foe will return will it be the Frey's since Brieanne is heading to the Riverlands? I am kind of sad though that after Sunday there will only be 4 episodes left seems like the season is flying by.

 

[cornichon]

Supposedly the last episode of this season is 69 minutes long, the longest episode so far. I assume the Jon Snow/Ramsay Bolton fight at Winterfell is in episode 9; that's when they normally do their battle episodes. I predict the Wall comes down in episode 10.

 

[Been Jammin]

I think Sunday's episode is going to be badass. I read that the young Ned Stark is listed in the cast list so hopefully more of the Tower of Joy scene will be shown. I bet they tease us all season on that one though and they finally show the end in episode 10. Anyone else pumped to meet Sam's dad? Will Arrya do as she is told and take out the actress? Also looking at the description an old foe will return will it be the Frey's since Brieanne is heading to the Riverlands? I am kind of sad though that after Sunday there will only be 4 episodes left seems like the season is flying by.

In response to some of your points, here are some rumors about 3 characters who may return before the end of the season.

Spoiler

"I have heard that the actor who played Walder Frey is returning to the show at some point this season. I also suspect we will see The Hound again before the season is over. I heard a rumor that the actor who plays Benjen may be back in the next episode or the one after that. "