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Donny warns of a shutdown over his wall.

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See how delusional you are? I point out a fact that you can’t dispute and you come with this godlike stuff. Go back and search this board for me ripping trump. Other than ac and Jd I probably ripped him more than any non lib. You only see what you want to see.
 
Dan I think you are wrong about your assessment of the Trump supporters. We don't think he is a godly creature immune from error. We totally realize that he has his warts - yuge ones in fact.

We just don't care about them and consider all that background noise. His flaws do serve a positive purpose. Those flaws are what the Dems focus on as opposed to a lot of his policy. This leads to an ineffective opposition. Sounds good to me.

More accurately.....there are rational fact based Trump supporters and MAGA infested sufferers of Trump deification syndrome just like there are rational fact based Trump detractors and out there sufferers of Trump derangement syndrome.
 
See how delusional you are? I point out a fact that you can’t dispute and you come with this godlike stuff. Go back and search this board for me ripping trump. Other than ac and Jd I probably ripped him more than any non lib. You only see what you want to see.

Accurate statement.
 
Dan I think you are wrong about your assessment of the Trump supporters. We don't think he is a godly creature immune from error. We totally realize that he has his warts - yuge ones in fact.

We just don't care about them and consider all that background noise. His flaws do serve a positive purpose. Those flaws are what the Dems focus on as opposed to a lot of his policy. This leads to an ineffective opposition. Sounds good to me.
I am not speaking of you personally. I am pointing out that Trump supporters support Trump without qualification, regardless of his actions, whether they be good for the country or bad. Trump supporters are deluded to the extent they believe he is there to drain the swamp, which they desperately want, and are under the impression whatever he does he does toward that end. Trump supporters (in general) so hate the other team they believe whatever he does is done to counteract the other team's desires.

On the other hand the other team is the diametric opposite. They hate the man. Like Trump supporters they believe his only goal is to destroy their grand visions for the world. Therefore he must be opposed at every turn. The mere fact that he breathes is disgusting to them. They will oppose him no matter whether his policy is good for the country or bad.
 
Been, for me in 2016 it was simply the following:
1. Hating career politicians Trump, for me, was a vote against the crappy system in place.
2. Conservative SCOTUS picks. Trumps future vision vs the hildabeast/libs. Easy easy easy choice on who to vote for.
3. Tax cuts corporate & personal, again another easy decision.
4. Getting illegal immigration under control and the wall.
5. Finally killing off Obysmal care.

So 4 & 5 are still up in the air thanks to spineless RINO’s like McCain. Trump to me has done some amazing things, some decent things and some forgettable things. He gets virtually no credit for things done that have had a positive result for virtually every American. But when he does something dumb, the torches and pitchforks are out in seconds and not just by the opposition but also by the weasels in his own party.


Most of my liberal friends that still converse with me are so blinded by the hate for Trump they can’t see anything of good that Trump has done. As anyone on this board knows I absolutely loathed the ex-rodent in chief, to a degree of unreasonability at times, but there were a few times I gave him credit for something he did. He was president when OBL was smoked so he/administration should get credit. His stopping trophy hunters from bring in big game trophies I also applauded. He had the opportunity to do so much more though and it should be pretty easy for his most ardent supporters to see. Trump supporters will get the opportunity to look back in 2020 or 2024 to see how he measured up to his promises vs accomplishments.
 
Been, for me in 2016 it was simply the following:
1. Hating career politicians Trump, for me, was a vote against the crappy system in place.
2. Conservative SCOTUS picks. Trumps future vision vs the hildabeast/libs. Easy easy easy choice on who to vote for.
3. Tax cuts corporate & personal, again another easy decision.
4. Getting illegal immigration under control and the wall.
5. Finally killing off Obysmal care.

So 4 & 5 are still up in the air thanks to spineless RINO’s like McCain. Trump to me has done some amazing things, some decent things and some forgettable things. He gets virtually no credit for things done that have had a positive result for virtually every American. But when he does something dumb, the torches and pitchforks are out in seconds and not just by the opposition but also by the weasels in his own party.


Most of my liberal friends that still converse with me are so blinded by the hate for Trump they can’t see anything of good that Trump has done. As anyone on this board knows I absolutely loathed the ex-rodent in chief, to a degree of unreasonability at times, but there were a few times I gave him credit for something he did. He was president when OBL was smoked so he/administration should get credit. His stopping trophy hunters from bring in big game trophies I also applauded. He had the opportunity to do so much more though and it should be pretty easy for his most ardent supporters to see. Trump supporters will get the opportunity to look back in 2020 or 2024 to see how he measured up to his promises vs accomplishments.


Thus far, tho, his promises-turned-accomplishments list is small lol...

- No wall, no funding
- Obamacare still very much alive and well (you realize that Trump just restarted government insurer payments, no?)
- corporate tax revenue some of lowest in history
- ballooning national debt
 
Thus far, tho, his promises-turned-accomplishments list is small lol...

- No wall, no funding
- Obamacare still very much alive and well (you realize that Trump just restarted government insurer payments, no?)
- corporate tax revenue some of lowest in history
- ballooning national debt

Come on. You are picking and choosing. Let's not act like he doesn't have a list of pros to go along with his cons (just like every POTUS).

I dislike him as a human, and dislike a lot of his policy, but he has accomplished more positive things than I expected from him.
 
Come on. You are picking and choosing. Let's not act like he doesn't have a list of pros to go along with his cons (just like every POTUS).

I dislike him as a human, and dislike a lot of his policy, but he has accomplished more positive things than I expected from him.

List?
 
The only campaign promise he hasn't met yet is the wall.

Lol total bullshit...

- ISIS are all dead? News to me!
- national debt wiped out, not going the other way? Well shit...
- New deal with Iran in the works? Not so fast...
- what happened to that sweet infrastructure plan?

- “too busy to play golf”
 
Lol total bullshit...

- ISIS are all dead? News to me!
- national debt wiped out, not going the other way? Well shit...
- New deal with Iran in the works? Not so fast...
- what happened to that sweet infrastructure plan?

- “too busy to play golf”

It's my fault for engaging you.

It's not about reason with you, just hate.

You never leave the surface of any issue.
 
I pay top dollar for my forays into other realities.

You do it naturally.

Part of me is envious of you being able to divorce yourself from reality at will.

Taking more liberties with words like “reality” lol...nice try moving them goalposts haha
 
It is easy to slip up. I've regressed a few times and regretted it every time.
So I'm in. And I promise to do better this time.

Lol don’t worry you’ll fall off the wagon...you always do haha

Don’t fret tho...you won’t be alone!
 
Sure, I am sure the cost would rise. How many people have built a house and it hit meets target cost? Happens all the time. At least there is someone in a power position that has years of experience and a pretty good track record of coming in under budget.

I know there is some info out there about illegal and even legal massive immigration. Some media stuff might be right or might be wrong. I know you do your research, but have you ever looked at local news papers in other countries and read what is actually going on there? For example, I lived in the Czech Republic and I have some friends on FB that post news reports. I use Google translate and read as much as I can. This is just one place I use as an example, but there is a huge difference between that and what we are told by our media. I am not referring to the UK daily mail or crap like that, but take a look, you might be shocked.

@Been Jammin

FYI

https://stredoevropan.cz/2018/08/03...etami-promenili-italske-mesto-v-bitevni-zonu/

Just translate the doc.

How much do you know about what is going on in S. Africa?
 
OK. Read it. So, there are migrants from Nigeria, living in Italy. There are two rival groups/gangs killing each other. How does this information apply to what we were discussing?

I mentioned that I get about 3 of these a week and yes, you are right, they are rival gangs killing each other. Does that make it okay?

The point is migrants, mostly illegal, are moving into countries all over the world just like what is going on here, just worse. We just rarely hear about this stuff. I am only trying to share ways to look outside our media and the UK daily mail and get to information on things we are not made aware of here. Also a way to sift through most of our media dem/rep BS.

I believe Europe is further along with this type of problem than we are. Should we be paying closer attention and figure out this is not what we want or need here?
 
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I mentioned that I get about 3 of these a week and yes, you are right, they are rival gangs killing each other. Does that make it okay?

The point is migrants, mostly illegal, are moving into countries all over the world just like what is going on here, just worse. We just rarely hear about this stuff. I am only trying to share ways to look outside our media and the UK daily mail and get to information on things we are not made aware of here. Also a way to sift through most of our media dem/rep BS.

I believe Europe is further along with this type of problem than we are. Should we be paying closer attention and figure out this is not what we want or need here?

OK.

But, are we really comparing apples to apples? Are the migrants you are referring to not legal immigrants?

The wall is supposed to deter illegal immigration. It sounds like you are opposed to all immigration, legal or illegal.

I can see the argument that the shit has hit the fan with immigration in many European countries and we are bound to eventually end up in the same situation. But, I'm not sure that is accurate. It seems likely that there are multiple factors that are leading to the issues within European countries. Factors that may or may not exist in the U.S. In addition, perhaps Europe will figure out a fix and we can benefit from their knowledge.

I can see the reasons why many Americans want the wall. I'm just not totally convinced that it is the best solution to the problem of illegal immigration across our southern border. And, I'm not crazy about the pro-wall faction using stories like this one (Nigerians in Italy) as an example of what will happen in the U.S. if we don't build a wall. It feels like fear mongering.
 
OK.

But, are we really comparing apples to apples? Are the migrants you are referring to not legal immigrants?

The wall is supposed to deter illegal immigration. It sounds like you are opposed to all immigration, legal or illegal.

I can see the argument that the shit has hit the fan with immigration in many European countries and we are bound to eventually end up in the same situation. But, I'm not sure that is accurate. It seems likely that there are multiple factors that are leading to the issues within European countries. Factors that may or may not exist in the U.S. In addition, perhaps Europe will figure out a fix and we can benefit from their knowledge.

I can see the reasons why many Americans want the wall. I'm just not totally convinced that it is the best solution to the problem of illegal immigration across our southern border. And, I'm not crazy about the pro-wall faction using stories like this one (Nigerians in Italy) as an example of what will happen in the U.S. if we don't build a wall. It feels like fear mongering.

Good question; I really doubt they are officially “legal” though. Have they been “allowed” or had the govt turned a blind eye to them kind of like the sanctuary cities in the US? I would say, yes.

No, I welcome legalized, but controlled immigration. We are a nation that was built on that. We did not have any restrictions during that time and we are lucky that was the case. We needed all the hard working people we could get to do any and ALL jobs they could. We are not in the same boat at this point though. We need some immigrants to do some jobs, but I would not think (let me use that 500k number again) we would need very many more Dr.’s including Vets like yourself. (@Been Jammin, that was not a shot at you or Vets just a poorly worded sentence) What would it do to your profession if there were ~150k new people added to it every year? (just trying to give an example. I have no idea if 150k is even a good number and that is not my point)

We might learn from Europe, but they are in some serious trouble with problems right now. I hope we don’t wait until that point to figure it out.

I do not like the term “fear mongering”. It is almost used to do the same thing as they claim anyway. To me the term is accurate when describing things like, the commercials used many years ago with the girl, picking flowers (?), and you hear 5,4,3,2,1 then you see a shot of a nuclear bomb going off. Have you seen that? Well that to me fits the term. IMO, it is not the same if someone shares pics, videos or speaking about real life things that happen. If I live where a fire is and I see videos of it, it is a real reason I should be concerned, not fear mongering.

Hey, I am just a simple guy. I admit that I don’t know crap, but I hope that I am not some crazy guy that gets too caught up in BS stuff. I believe we have a problem, a wall might not be the 100% solution, but we need to figure it out.
 
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