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Donny warns of a shutdown over his wall.

osu_orangestreak

Heisman Candidate
Feb 15, 2002
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Even claims that it is a great campaign move.

I am not to sure if Brett Kavanaugh approves of that.
 
Won’t happen....nice sound bite for a fleeting moment but nothing more. The last shutdown was hung squarely on the dems/libs and it won’t happen twice in our lifetimes.

Keep extolling the virtues of the economy, de-regulation and potentially more tax cuts he’ll be fine as will many of the mid-term candidates. It’s when he goes all or nothing on crap like that that he starts to just seem unreasonable. Especially since he signed that horrendous spending bill last year instead of vetoing the thing.

Got to get Kavanaugh over the finish line and stay on the campaign trail for his underlings.
 
It continues to amaze a party can exist in this country that refuses to protect the border.

Do you thing that we currently have an "open" border? Do you think that a wall will make a significant dent in illegal crossings?
 
Do you thing that we currently have an "open" border? Do you think that a wall will make a significant dent in illegal crossings?

i agree

50 cals on humvees would work better

i mean you don’t have locks on your doors do you been
 
Do you thing that we currently have an "open" border? Do you think that a wall will make a significant dent in illegal crossings?

I defer to the border agents union that never endorsed a president until this one. And did it early in the campaign.

They said it will funnel illegals into certain areas and make them easier to apprehend.
 
12 million illegals isn’t an open border as the extreme definition you are going to use but come on.

I don't know if 12 million is an accurate number or not, but let's not focus on that. Some of them may not have entered the country via the southern border.

Let's talk about number of crossings per year. According to this link, it looks like we can call if about 500,000 per year.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

It does look like there was a significant reduction in 2017, so some of Trump's changes are putting a dent into the numbers, even without adding a wall.

The questions are, how much would the wall reduce the numbers, and would it be worth the expense and the potential damage to the natural habitat along the Rio Grande? I don't think it is a ridiculous stance for the Dems to want answers to those questions before they get on board and approve the wall.

I'm sure you would agree that once the project is started, "unexpected" complications are going to result in more money being needed to finish the project. Trump just wants to get it started, because he knows it will eventually get finished even if it costs a lot more.

I'm sure part of the issue is that the Dems are being obstructionist. But, I don't think that is the only explanation and I don't think it is accurate to characterize them as "wanting open borders".
 
I don't know if 12 million is an accurate number or not, but let's not focus on that. Some of them may not have entered the country via the southern border.

Let's talk about number of crossings per year. According to this link, it looks like we can call if about 500,000 per year.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

The questions are, how much would the wall reduce the numbers, and would it be worth the expense and the potential damage to the natural habitat along the Rio Grande? I don't think it is a ridiculous stance for the Dems to want answers to those questions before they get on board and approve the wall.

Let me ask a couple of questions;

1. If the number is 500,000 per year what does that cost tax payers every year and what is that cost for every 500K that come in over 10 or 20 years?

2. How much do you estimate the wall will cost even with "things" causing an increase?

3. Does the tax payer come out ahead at some point?

I know you are a nice guy, but I laughed at the habitat example.
 
1. If the number is 500,000 per year what does that cost tax payers every year and what is that cost for every 500K that come in over 10 or 20 years?


3. Does the tax payer come out ahead at some point?

All good points. I can see the logic. Maybe Trump should take this approach to convincing the public and the Dems that the country would benefit from the wall.

As far as how much extra it will cost, I have no idea. But, you and I both know how these things go. Assuming he gets X amount approved for the wall, at some point, he will tell us that they didn't account for Y, or that Z happened, and now he needs more to complete the project.
 
All good points. I can see the logic. Maybe Trump should take this approach to convincing the public and the Dems that the country would benefit from the wall.

As far as how much extra it will cost, I have no idea. But, you and I both know how these things go. Assuming he gets X amount approved for the wall, at some point, he will tell us that they didn't account for Y, or that Z happened, and now he needs more to complete the project.
Why are you guys bickering over how much the wall will cost us? It’s not going to cost us one thin dime. Trump’s campaign promise was he’d make Mexico pay for the wall. And Trump keeps his campaign promises. Cost to America: $0.00.
 
A complete physical wall along the southern border will be a disaster for migratory land animals. Birds mostly won't be affected. I'm for more Border Patrol and ICE agents, a bunch of enhanced detection technology, stopping catch and release, eliminating sanctuary policies, and eliminating benefits like welfare, Medicaid, and driver licenses for adults.

Knowing you'll sign some papers before you're released into the US with little chance of being caught is a motivator to enter illegally vs the time and expense to do it legally. Take the insane incentives away and it'll decrease the numbers.
 
All good points. I can see the logic. Maybe Trump should take this approach to convincing the public and the Dems that the country would benefit from the wall.

As far as how much extra it will cost, I have no idea. But, you and I both know how these things go. Assuming he gets X amount approved for the wall, at some point, he will tell us that they didn't account for Y, or that Z happened, and now he needs more to complete the project.

Sure, I am sure the cost would rise. How many people have built a house and it hit meets target cost? Happens all the time. At least there is someone in a power position that has years of experience and a pretty good track record of coming in under budget.

I know there is some info out there about illegal and even legal massive immigration. Some media stuff might be right or might be wrong. I know you do your research, but have you ever looked at local news papers in other countries and read what is actually going on there? For example, I lived in the Czech Republic and I have some friends on FB that post news reports. I use Google translate and read as much as I can. This is just one place I use as an example, but there is a huge difference between that and what we are told by our media. I am not referring to the UK daily mail or crap like that, but take a look, you might be shocked.
 
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A complete physical wall along the southern border will be a disaster for migratory land animals. Birds mostly won't be affected. I'm for more Border Patrol and ICE agents, a bunch of enhanced detection technology, stopping catch and release, eliminating sanctuary policies, and eliminating benefits like welfare, Medicaid, and driver licenses for adults.

Knowing you'll sign some papers before you're released into the US with little chance of being caught is a motivator to enter illegally vs the time and expense to do it legally. Take the insane incentives away and it'll decrease the numbers.

Hey, that works too. I bet Iran and Pakistan have very few people cross their border illegally and they don't have a wall at all. It just depends on how we handle it.. There has to be something done..
 
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Why are you guys bickering over how much the wall will cost us? It’s not going to cost us one thin dime. Trump’s campaign promise was he’d make Mexico pay for the wall. And Trump keeps his campaign promises. Cost to America: $0.00.

He mouthed off, that is for sure, but I don't care how it gets paid for. If he gets a new NAFTA agreement that saves or makes us more money and it covers it how would you feel about that?
 
We have a revolving door border Been. Not entirely open, but fairly sieve like, especially when you see some of these clowns being deported multiple times, especially the ones who have previously committed crimes. If there was any justice the politicians who are pre-disposed to open borders blah blah blah, would be the ones having their children murdered, daughters raped, family members killed by illegals driving while drunk, etc. but as long as us bottom feeding tax payers are the victims all’s good.

If the children in Congress would get serious we wouldn’t even need a wall, but unfortunately they don’t enforce laws on the books, they let illegal criminal border jumping turds accept federal aid, non-English speaking kids are hoovering monies away from native borns in public schools and so on.

You hear the bleeding hearts cry about children being separated from adults who may or may not be their parents, but you rarely see legit native born parents mourning their child’s death at the hands of an illegal. It’s just bizzaro world.
 
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Sure, I am sure the cost would rise. How many people have built a house and it hit meets target cost? Happens all the time. At least there is someone in a power position that has years of experience and a pretty good track record of coming in under budget.
Tell me more about this track record... How do we account for stiffing suppliers, using BK as a defensive mechanism, and the use of illegal labor (presumably he won't be able to pull those levers in this project)?
 
Tell me more about this track record... How do we account for stiffing suppliers, using BK as a defensive mechanism, and the use of illegal labor (presumably he won't be able to pull those levers in this project)?

I have heard that, but I really don't have any specific knowledge about it. We can debate all of this for weeks or moths, but we will eventually end up exactly where we are right now with the same problems and questions so lets finish it some how some way.

If he is not the "general contractor" we need for the wall then lets find out who is the best of the best to do it. If you can do it hell I would have no problem with that. You agree that there is an immigration problem, right? All I am saying is we have to figure out a way to fix it. I don't give a rats ass how it is done or who does it, but it has to get done.
 
I have heard that, but I really don't have any specific knowledge about it. We can debate all of this for weeks or moths, but we will eventually end up exactly where we are right now with the same problems and questions so lets finish it some how some way.

If he is not the "general contractor" we need for the wall then lets find out who is the best of the best to do it. If you can do it hell I would have no problem with that. You agree that there is an immigration problem, right? All I am saying is we have to figure out a way to fix it. I don't give a rats ass how it is done or who does it, but it has to get done.
A physical structure is a 20th Century solution to a 21st Century problem. Over the border illegals are a fraction of the number of illegals in our country today.
 
A physical structure is a 20th Century solution to a 21st Century problem. Over the border illegals are a fraction of the number of illegals in our country today.

I agree 99%. Here is the deal though; we have been down this road before with Reagan and we still have the problem. It is also true that if it is not fixed we will be having this debate in 20 more years. You know it and so do I. I dont care at this point "who shot John". I want John fixed then we can figure out the rest.

** see I broke my "fix John" rule.. LOL -- - I will say that I cant figure out any way that I would like for any amnesty to include the right to vote or becoming citizens.
 
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I have heard that, but I really don't have any specific knowledge about it. We can debate all of this for weeks or moths, but we will eventually end up exactly where we are right now with the same problems and questions so lets finish it some how some way.

If he is not the "general contractor" we need for the wall then lets find out who is the best of the best to do it. If you can do it hell I would have no problem with that. You agree that there is an immigration problem, right? All I am saying is we have to figure out a way to fix it. I don't give a rats ass how it is done or who does it, but it has to get done.


“You agree there is an immigration problem, right?”

In exact language can you say what is the “immigration problem?”
 
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I agree 99%. Here is the deal though; we have been down this road before with Reagan and we still have the problem. It is also true that if it is not fixed we will be having this debate in 20 more years. You know it and so do I. I dont care at this point "who shot John". I want John fixed then we can figure out the rest.

** see I broke my "fix John" rule.. LOL -- - I will say that I cant figure out any way that I would like for any amnesty to include the right to vote or becoming citizens.
I would suggest that building an expensive structure that drops overall illegal immigration by single digits (percentage wise) does nothing to solve the problem. It is at best a feel good move.
 
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“You agree there is an immigration problem, right?”

In exact language can you say what is the “immigration problem?”

If one example of probably many will be okay, I would say ~500,000 illegals entering the country every year is a problem, right? (just using an earlier used number, I have no idea what the real number is so don't hold my feet to the fire. I am not trying to make stuff up, just have a conversation)
 
I would suggest that building an expensive structure that drops overall illegal immigration by single digits (percentage wise) does nothing to solve the problem. It is at best a feel good move.

I have never seen any percentages so do you really believe, if the numbers we have been discussing (500k), are correct it would only stop single digit numbers? If so I am interested in why you think that the % would be so small? Does Israel have that kind of fail rate?
 
If one example of probably many will be okay, I would say ~500,000 illegals entering the country every year is a problem, right? (just using an earlier used number, I have no idea what the real number is so don't hold my feet to the fire. I am not trying to make stuff up, just have a conversation)
Me, too. I’m not trying to start an argument. It just seems to me when most people talk about the “immigration problem” they don’t say exactly what the “problem” is. What exactly, for example, do you find disturbing about 500,000 immigrants coming to America on any given year? Again, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, just asking you to expand on the assertion.
 
Me, too. I’m not trying to start an argument. It just seems to me when most people talk about the “immigration problem” they don’t say exactly what the “problem” is. What exactly, for example, do you find disturbing about 500,000 immigrants coming to America on any given year? Again, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, just asking you to expand on the assertion.

Okay, good.

I would have a concern if we let 500k LEGAL immigrants in our country every year, but that is another thread.

I thought we have been discussing the illegal issue.
 
He mouthed off, that is for sure, but I don't care how it gets paid for. If he gets a new NAFTA agreement that saves or makes us more money and it covers it how would you feel about that?

Sorry, I just saw this reply. How would I feel about that?

To begin with, as a free market/free trade advocate I find it absurd that governments get to decide what will be the “free trade” rules.

But that’s the reality. So if the Trump administration negotiates a “better” free trade deal that saves or makes me more money, my reaction would be to want to keep the extra money the free trade deal saved or made me, and spend it on something I prefer to building a wall.

If the extra money I get from the improved free trade deal is taken from me to build a wall I don’t want, in what way has the free trade deal improved my life?

I would suggest that those people who want a wall should band together, throw their money into a pot, buy the land needed for the wall from its rightful owners, and build the wall. All I ask is for them to leave me out of it.
 
Okay, good.

I would have a concern if we let 500k LEGAL immigrants in our country every year, but that is another thread.

I thought we have been discussing the illegal issue.
Legal, illegal. What is causing the concern?
 
I have never seen any percentages so do you really believe, if the numbers we have been discussing (500k), are correct it would only stop single digit numbers? If so I am interested in why you think that the % would be so small? Does Israel have that kind of fail rate?
OK so 1 mln new illegal immigrants per year... 1/3 of which are over the border. A wall will by some estimates reduce that number by 100k or so or right around 10% overall - reducing over the border by about 1/3rd. At $25bln plus annual upkeep estimated at $750 mln a year this just doesn't pencil out.
 
Sorry, I just saw this reply. How would I feel about that?

To begin with, as a free market/free trade advocate I find it absurd that governments get to decide what will be the “free trade” rules.

But that’s the reality. So if the Trump administration negotiates a “better” free trade deal that saves or makes me more money, my reaction would be to want to keep the extra money the free trade deal saved or made me, and spend it on something I prefer to building a wall.

If the extra money I get from the improved free trade deal is taken from me to build a wall I don’t want, in what way has the free trade deal improved my life?

I would suggest that those people who want a wall should band together, throw their money into a pot, buy the land needed for the wall from its rightful owners, and build the wall. All I ask is for them to leave me out of it.

You are a no wall guy and I get it. My NAFTA comment was just an example. If it is okay lets stay on point here which I think is illegal immigration.
 
OK so 1 mln new illegal immigrants per year... 1/3 of which are over the border. A wall will by some estimates reduce that number by 100k or so or right around 10% overall - reducing over the border by about 1/3rd. At $25bln plus annual upkeep estimated at $750 mln a year this just doesn't pencil out.
Not to mention that anyone who thinks the wall will “only” cost 25 billion has rocks for brains. Has there ever been a government construction project that came in on budget? At least a project of this magnitude?
 
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You are a no wall guy and I get it. My NAFTA comment was just an example. If it is okay lets stay on point here which I think is illegal immigration.

What Ponca is doing in his usual passive aggressive manner is letting you know that he is a completely open borders guy and doesn’t see a problem with any number of illegal immigrants entering the country at any time....but he doesn’t want to defend his position...just attack yours.
 
You are a no wall guy and I get it. My NAFTA comment was just an example. If it is okay lets stay on point here which I think is illegal immigration.
OK. What do you find concerning about illegal immigrants coming to America? Is it just that they’re here illegally? Or is there anything else you find troubling? Please believe me, I’m not trying to play gotcha. I’m very curious what is your thinking.
 
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