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Democrats BLOCK anti-infanticide bill

Here is where the left and right are talking to each other but aren't hearing each other.

The left sees this as a legality issue.
The right sees this as a morality issue.

The question on the left is when does that baby legally have rights? Today, you don't have rights unless you are actually born. Once born, you are protected legally. Up until that point, the baby simply has little to no legal standing since the US doesn't recognize them as an independent identity.

So how technically would we as a country legally protect something that we don't recognize as a separate, independent legal entity?

I could be wrong.
This whole abortion tantrum is over this language in a NY state law:

2599-BB. ABORTION. 1. A HEALTH CARE PRACTITIONER LICENSED, CERTI- 43 FIED, OR AUTHORIZED UNDER TITLE EIGHT OF THE EDUCATION LAW, ACTING WITH- 44 IN HIS OR HER LAWFUL SCOPE OF PRACTICE, MAY PERFORM AN ABORTION WHEN, 45 ACCORDING TO THE PRACTITIONER'S REASONABLE AND GOOD FAITH PROFESSIONAL 46 JUDGMENT BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE PATIENT'S CASE: THE PATIENT IS WITHIN 47 TWENTY-FOUR WEEKS FROM THE COMMENCEMENT OF PREGNANCY, OR THERE IS AN 48 ABSENCE OF FETAL VIABILITY, OR THE ABORTION IS NECESSARY TO PROTECT THE 49 PATIENT'S LIFE OR HEALTH.
 
Lol okay . Everyone knows a freaking dog is not part of the human species . It’s a figure of speech .

So if an expectant mother is murdered along with the baby she is carrying , you probably just consider the mother being murdered...and not the baby . Even though many states would consider the baby a crime victim . I think about 38 . Would that be correct ?
 
Lol okay . Everyone knows a freaking dog is not part of the human species . It’s a figure of speech .
So you are telling me that vernacular speech doesn't map 100% on to literal reality? Interesting
 
Oh yeah.

Answer: no

So just to clarify ....if an expectant mother is murdered ....along with the baby she is carrying ....you do not consider the baby to be the victim of a crime ?
 
I personally think it’s morally wrong to murder a baby toon. Simple as that .
 
Still waiting for you, and many others in this thread, to acknowledge the circumstances under which these late-term abortions would occur.
Will you acknowledge how different accounts/personalities you have? This is crazy. Is this your 5th new/different account in the last 24 hours?
 
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So just to clarify ....if an expectant mother is murdered ....along with the baby she is carrying ....you do not consider the baby to be the victim of a crime ?
Go back and read your own question.
 
I personally think it’s morally wrong to murder a baby toon. Simple as that .

And I respect that...100 percent. I’m fully against late term abortion of a healthy fetus. I’m not against late term abortions of nonviable fetuses.

There’s a difference
 
So is calling it a fetus dehumanizing?
No. That's appropriate scientific terminology. Lay people typically use the word "baby" to refer to all stages of human embryonic and fetal development. That isn't the result of people trying to humanize something that's already human. It's simply common language.
 
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Go back and read your own question.

Okay . So when I asked if an expectant mother was murdered along with the baby and said you probably just considered the mother to be a crime victim and not the baby....you said no . So I am confused . That must mean to you the baby isn’t human if a woman wants to abort it ....but if the mother is murdered along with the baby ....it’s not okay and it’s suddenly human . Got it .
 
No. That's appropriate scientific terminology. Lay people typically use the word "baby" to refer to all stages of human embryonic and fetal development. That isn't the result of people trying to humanize something that's already human. It's simply common language.
Got it
 
Okay . So when I asked if an expectant mother was murdered along with the baby and said you probably just considered the mother to be a crime victim and not the baby....you said no . So I am confused . That must mean to you the baby isn’t human if a woman wants to abort it ....but if the mother is murdered along with the baby ....it’s not okay and it’s suddenly human . Got it .
Was the fetus killed by a licensed physician with the consent of now now expired mother?
 
By Jennifer Rubin
Opinion writer
February 8 at 9:45 AM

The Supreme Court on Thursday in a 5-4 decision blocked a Louisiana law that would have, in effect, barred most abortions. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. sided with the four Democratic-appointed justices; the other Republican-appointed justices, including Neil Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh, voted to uphold the law.

The Post reports:

The justices may yet consider whether the 2014 law — requiring doctors at abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals — unduly burdens women’s access to abortion. The Louisiana law has never been enforced, and the Supreme Court in 2016 found a nearly identical Texas law to be unconstitutional.


The decision was a triumph for abortion rights advocates in several respects. Ilyse Hogue, head of NARAL Pro-Choice America, tweeted:


ilyse hogue

✔@ilyseh

https://twitter.com/ilyseh/status/1093704082345377792

Trump Justices -- Kavanaugh and Gorsuch --dissented in this case that would have ended legal abortion in Louisiana. We were called hysterical for expressing concern they would rule against #RoeVWade and our fundamental freedom but here we have it. Everyone who fought, I see you.

Greg Stohr

✔@GregStohr

BREAKING: Supreme Court blocks Louisiana law that would require abortion doctors to have hospital admission privileges. 5-4 vote.


4,022

8:52 PM - Feb 7, 2019
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Hogue told me, “Susan Collins gaslighted millions of Americans claiming we were hysterical in believing that Justice Kavanaugh would vote to overturn precedent ... His decision in the Louisiana case proves us correct.” She added, “Senator Collins, you broke it, you bought it.” (In fact, the Republican senator from Maine voted for both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, creating a huge political problem for her should she run for reelection in 2020.)

NARAL put out an official statement, which read in part, “Today’s decision maintains a critical lifeline for women in Louisiana, who already face some of the bleakest outlooks for reproductive freedom. The Supreme Court rightfully refused to uphold a brazen and unconstitutional attempt to ignore identical cases that are intended to shutter abortion clinics in the state, making Roe v. Wade obsolete.”

The ruling is especially significant since abortion rights opponents swore up and down that eradicating Roe v. Wadewasn’t on the table. It certainly was, and their credibility has taken a hit.

Most important is what the decision tells us about the Supreme Court’s shifting alliances. Increasingly concerned about the Supreme Court’s credibility and the appearance of partisanship, Roberts joined up for the first time to protect abortion rights, something previously unimaginable. Should Roberts follow course on other issues, in essence stepping into the Justice Anthony Kennedy role as a persuadable justice, President Trump’s effort to refashion the court for a generation will be diminished.

As with the imminent defeat on the wall, Trump has less and less to offer the right wing with each passing day. Perhaps they will reconsider their reflexive defense of him.
 
Okay . So when I asked if an expectant mother was murdered along with the baby and said you probably just considered the mother to be a crime victim and not the baby....you said no . So I am confused . That must mean to you the baby isn’t human if a woman wants to abort it ....but if the mother is murdered along with the baby ....it’s not okay and it’s suddenly human . Got it .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unborn_Victims_of_Violence_Act
 
By Jennifer Rubin
Opinion writer
February 8 at 9:45 AM

The Supreme Court on Thursday in a 5-4 decision blocked a Louisiana law that would have, in effect, barred most abortions. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. sided with the four Democratic-appointed justices; the other Republican-appointed justices, including Neil Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh, voted to uphold the law.

The Post reports:

The justices may yet consider whether the 2014 law — requiring doctors at abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals — unduly burdens women’s access to abortion. The Louisiana law has never been enforced, and the Supreme Court in 2016 found a nearly identical Texas law to be unconstitutional.


The decision was a triumph for abortion rights advocates in several respects. Ilyse Hogue, head of NARAL Pro-Choice America, tweeted:


ilyse hogue

✔@ilyseh


Trump Justices -- Kavanaugh and Gorsuch --dissented in this case that would have ended legal abortion in Louisiana. We were called hysterical for expressing concern they would rule against #RoeVWade and our fundamental freedom but here we have it. Everyone who fought, I see you.

Greg Stohr

✔@GregStohr

BREAKING: Supreme Court blocks Louisiana law that would require abortion doctors to have hospital admission privileges. 5-4 vote.


4,022

8:52 PM - Feb 7, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

1,527 people are talking about this



Hogue told me, “Susan Collins gaslighted millions of Americans claiming we were hysterical in believing that Justice Kavanaugh would vote to overturn precedent ... His decision in the Louisiana case proves us correct.” She added, “Senator Collins, you broke it, you bought it.” (In fact, the Republican senator from Maine voted for both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, creating a huge political problem for her should she run for reelection in 2020.)

NARAL put out an official statement, which read in part, “Today’s decision maintains a critical lifeline for women in Louisiana, who already face some of the bleakest outlooks for reproductive freedom. The Supreme Court rightfully refused to uphold a brazen and unconstitutional attempt to ignore identical cases that are intended to shutter abortion clinics in the state, making Roe v. Wade obsolete.”

The ruling is especially significant since abortion rights opponents swore up and down that eradicating Roe v. Wadewasn’t on the table. It certainly was, and their credibility has taken a hit.

Most important is what the decision tells us about the Supreme Court’s shifting alliances. Increasingly concerned about the Supreme Court’s credibility and the appearance of partisanship, Roberts joined up for the first time to protect abortion rights, something previously unimaginable. Should Roberts follow course on other issues, in essence stepping into the Justice Anthony Kennedy role as a persuadable justice, President Trump’s effort to refashion the court for a generation will be diminished.

As with the imminent defeat on the wall, Trump has less and less to offer the right wing with each passing day. Perhaps they will reconsider their reflexive defense of him.
I’m not sure what you think this piece, nor this decision, proves, but at least we know you stand with Ilyse Hogue and NARAL.
 
I'm still waiting on some facts. Where are these late term abortions occurring?
 
I’m not sure what you think this piece, nor this decision, proves, but at least we know you stand with Ilyse Hogue and NARAL.

Never heard of NARAL before. But, looked it up. You might be surprised as to where I actually stand on the topic.
 
By Jennifer Rubin
Opinion writer
February 8 at 9:45 AM

The Supreme Court on Thursday in a 5-4 decision blocked a Louisiana law that would have, in effect, barred most abortions. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. sided with the four Democratic-appointed justices; the other Republican-appointed justices, including Neil Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh, voted to uphold the law.

The Post reports:

The justices may yet consider whether the 2014 law — requiring doctors at abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals — unduly burdens women’s access to abortion. The Louisiana law has never been enforced, and the Supreme Court in 2016 found a nearly identical Texas law to be unconstitutional.


The decision was a triumph for abortion rights advocates in several respects. Ilyse Hogue, head of NARAL Pro-Choice America, tweeted:


ilyse hogue

✔@ilyseh


Trump Justices -- Kavanaugh and Gorsuch --dissented in this case that would have ended legal abortion in Louisiana. We were called hysterical for expressing concern they would rule against #RoeVWade and our fundamental freedom but here we have it. Everyone who fought, I see you.

Greg Stohr

✔@GregStohr

BREAKING: Supreme Court blocks Louisiana law that would require abortion doctors to have hospital admission privileges. 5-4 vote.


4,022

8:52 PM - Feb 7, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

1,527 people are talking about this



Hogue told me, “Susan Collins gaslighted millions of Americans claiming we were hysterical in believing that Justice Kavanaugh would vote to overturn precedent ... His decision in the Louisiana case proves us correct.” She added, “Senator Collins, you broke it, you bought it.” (In fact, the Republican senator from Maine voted for both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, creating a huge political problem for her should she run for reelection in 2020.)

NARAL put out an official statement, which read in part, “Today’s decision maintains a critical lifeline for women in Louisiana, who already face some of the bleakest outlooks for reproductive freedom. The Supreme Court rightfully refused to uphold a brazen and unconstitutional attempt to ignore identical cases that are intended to shutter abortion clinics in the state, making Roe v. Wade obsolete.”

The ruling is especially significant since abortion rights opponents swore up and down that eradicating Roe v. Wadewasn’t on the table. It certainly was, and their credibility has taken a hit.

Most important is what the decision tells us about the Supreme Court’s shifting alliances. Increasingly concerned about the Supreme Court’s credibility and the appearance of partisanship, Roberts joined up for the first time to protect abortion rights, something previously unimaginable. Should Roberts follow course on other issues, in essence stepping into the Justice Anthony Kennedy role as a persuadable justice, President Trump’s effort to refashion the court for a generation will be diminished.

As with the imminent defeat on the wall, Trump has less and less to offer the right wing with each passing day. Perhaps they will reconsider their reflexive defense of him.
That's a bunch of the usual alarmist political rhetoric. It's very easy to see right through it if you've read Louisiana's law and the dissenting opinion.
 
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By Jennifer Rubin
Opinion writer
February 8 at 9:45 AM

The Supreme Court on Thursday in a 5-4 decision blocked a Louisiana law that would have, in effect, barred most abortions. Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. sided with the four Democratic-appointed justices; the other Republican-appointed justices, including Neil Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh, voted to uphold the law.

The Post reports:

The justices may yet consider whether the 2014 law — requiring doctors at abortion clinics to have admitting privileges at nearby hospitals — unduly burdens women’s access to abortion. The Louisiana law has never been enforced, and the Supreme Court in 2016 found a nearly identical Texas law to be unconstitutional.


The decision was a triumph for abortion rights advocates in several respects. Ilyse Hogue, head of NARAL Pro-Choice America, tweeted:


ilyse hogue

✔@ilyseh


Trump Justices -- Kavanaugh and Gorsuch --dissented in this case that would have ended legal abortion in Louisiana. We were called hysterical for expressing concern they would rule against #RoeVWade and our fundamental freedom but here we have it. Everyone who fought, I see you.

Greg Stohr

✔@GregStohr

BREAKING: Supreme Court blocks Louisiana law that would require abortion doctors to have hospital admission privileges. 5-4 vote.


4,022

8:52 PM - Feb 7, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

1,527 people are talking about this



Hogue told me, “Susan Collins gaslighted millions of Americans claiming we were hysterical in believing that Justice Kavanaugh would vote to overturn precedent ... His decision in the Louisiana case proves us correct.” She added, “Senator Collins, you broke it, you bought it.” (In fact, the Republican senator from Maine voted for both Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, creating a huge political problem for her should she run for reelection in 2020.)

NARAL put out an official statement, which read in part, “Today’s decision maintains a critical lifeline for women in Louisiana, who already face some of the bleakest outlooks for reproductive freedom. The Supreme Court rightfully refused to uphold a brazen and unconstitutional attempt to ignore identical cases that are intended to shutter abortion clinics in the state, making Roe v. Wade obsolete.”

The ruling is especially significant since abortion rights opponents swore up and down that eradicating Roe v. Wadewasn’t on the table. It certainly was, and their credibility has taken a hit.

Most important is what the decision tells us about the Supreme Court’s shifting alliances. Increasingly concerned about the Supreme Court’s credibility and the appearance of partisanship, Roberts joined up for the first time to protect abortion rights, something previously unimaginable. Should Roberts follow course on other issues, in essence stepping into the Justice Anthony Kennedy role as a persuadable justice, President Trump’s effort to refashion the court for a generation will be diminished.

As with the imminent defeat on the wall, Trump has less and less to offer the right wing with each passing day. Perhaps they will reconsider their reflexive defense of him.
I would like to add that both sides of the abortion debate have lost their friggin minds and neither side is taking anything factual into consideration. That's unfortunate but not surprising given the huge political divide that we're in today.
 
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I would like to add that both sides of the abortion debate have lost their friggin minds and neither side is taking anything factual into consideration. That's unfortunate but not surprising given the huge political divide that we're in today.
Let’s hear how it is that Pro-life/anti-abortion constituents have “lost their friggin minds”.
 
Let’s hear how it is that Pro-life/anti-abortion constituents have “lost their friggin minds”.
Infantcide. Doctors are going to be murdering healthy babies during and after their birth. We have this whole thread dedicated to it.
 
Infantcide. Doctors are going to be murdering healthy babies during and after their birth. We have this whole thread dedicated to it.
And it’s your position that this isn’t occurring or hasn’t occurred?

To what do you attribute the sudden burst of bills decriminalizing late term abortions? What’s the purpose of removing any regulation or restrictions or possible punishment for misdeeds around abortion completely out of the criminal code in NY?

What do you make of the comments by the female legislator in VA?
 
And it’s your position that this isn’t occurring or hasn’t occurred?

To what do you attribute the sudden burst of bills decriminalizing late term abortions? What’s the purpose of removing any regulation or restrictions or possible punishment for misdeeds around abortion completely out of the criminal code in NY?

What do you make of the comments by the female legislator in VA?
Misdeeds around abortion are now classified as homicides in NY.
 
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