Conservatism is dwindling
- Thread starter AC2020
- Start date
The majority of the country does not support unlimited abortion, just as it does not support making abortion totally illegal. Now what?
I would argue that the rise of Trump has indeed caused a decline in conservative consensus. Trump is not a conservative. He's a populist/mercantilist/nationalist that disagrees with liberalism only in which big government direction he would take the nation. Small decentralized national government is not in his wheelhouse. The only reason anyone thinks he's a conservative is because the left hates him with a passion. And the left hates him with a passion because his big government would not be the same as their big governemt.
Trump's spending for one. I had a huge issue with it. Loved his tax cuts, loved his removal of numerous BS regulations, liked his SCOTUS Appointments but hated his spending during COVID.
I spent four years providing examples. Did you miss them? His one-man trade war against the rest of the world, including our supposed allies is a textbook example of his mercantilism. Trade sanctions and domestic subsidies are opposite of small government conservatism. His "us againgst the world" demeanor is part and parcel of his nationalism, a very low-grade form of economic fascism, and that includes his horrendous rhetoric against foreign countries and foreingers in general. Conservatism is antagonistic against one man/strong man politics. Trumps entire appeal is that he's the only person that can save the country from the leftists, a populist approach.
I have no quarrel with people who understand how Trump is a danger to leftist politics, I agree with you. But please don't blashpheme the good reputation of conservatism by calling Trump a conservative. His brand of politics is not conservative. If you endorse Trump at least be honest with yourself (and the rest of us) that you're just endorsing a different brand of big government politics than what the left calls for. You know how the Marxist/leftists hijacked the good name of liberalism away from its original intent of free markets and free people? So now liberalism means the exact opposite of its original nature. Well, Trump enthusiasts are doing the same thing, hijacking the true nature of conservatism and presenting a different meaning of the word.
I think you are a little off base on trade. If our trading partners are not trading fair, it's only fair to use the same methods they are. Your labeled (Us against the world) is nothing more than everything we do should be from the standpoint of what is good for the US, as it should be. Are there other countries putting the US ahead of themselves?
No one here believes Trump is the only one to save the country, he's the first one that stood up against Democrats and had the balls to fight just as dirty as they do.
Let me say again that I have no quarrel with those who support Donald Trump. All I ask is that you quit calling him a conservative. Almost nothing he did as president (trade-wise/free market-wise) was "conservative."
Trump is modern conservatism. No use denying it -- he's leading the republican primary by a mile.
The Heritage Foundation disagrees with you.
"President Trump entered the Oval Office as a populist question mark. But after a year, the conservative Heritage Foundation now trumpets that Trump has a more conservative track record than Ronald Reagan at least according to their standards.
"Trump adopted two-thirds, or about 64 percent, of the Heritage agenda, meaning that the administration copied and pasted 334 of the think tank’s unique policy proposals. By comparison, the New York Times reports, Reagan adopted just 49 percent of the Heritage agenda making 2017 a banner year for Heritage.
"That was always the plan. When other conservatives kept their distance, Heritage welcomed Trump with open arms. He needed a detailed agenda and they had a stockpile of policy proposals ready to roll. And so, in the absence of his own ideas, the ideological wildcard of an executive adopted the ideas of the biggest conservative think tank in Washington."
Heritage: Donald Trump has achieved more than Ronald Reagan in first year - Washington Examiner
President Trump entered the Oval Office as a populist question mark. But after a year, the conservative Heritage Foundation now trumpets that Trump has a more conservative track record than Ronald Reagan at least according to their standards. Trump adopted two-thirds, or about 64 percent, of the...
www.washingtonexaminer.com
Yes, the Heritage Foundation and I disagree sharply about this.The Heritage Foundation disagrees with you.
"President Trump entered the Oval Office as a populist question mark. But after a year, the conservative Heritage Foundation now trumpets that Trump has a more conservative track record than Ronald Reagan at least according to their standards.
"Trump adopted two-thirds, or about 64 percent, of the Heritage agenda, meaning that the administration copied and pasted 334 of the think tank’s unique policy proposals. By comparison, the New York Times reports, Reagan adopted just 49 percent of the Heritage agenda making 2017 a banner year for Heritage.
"That was always the plan. When other conservatives kept their distance, Heritage welcomed Trump with open arms. He needed a detailed agenda and they had a stockpile of policy proposals ready to roll. And so, in the absence of his own ideas, the ideological wildcard of an executive adopted the ideas of the biggest conservative think tank in Washington."
Heritage: Donald Trump has achieved more than Ronald Reagan in first year - Washington Examiner
President Trump entered the Oval Office as a populist question mark. But after a year, the conservative Heritage Foundation now trumpets that Trump has a more conservative track record than Ronald Reagan at least according to their standards. Trump adopted two-thirds, or about 64 percent, of the...
I agree Trump is far from being a conservative but I think you are off on the trade issue. If other countries place tariffs on American products, it's only fair to place tariffs on theirs.
Fair to whom? Not the consumer who ultimately pays the higher price for an item that has been slapped with a tariff.
All the cheap crap made in China that breaks not long after you buy it and ends up in a Landfill. One would think the left would Reeeeeeeee about that but no
Thirty-forty years ago that was the argument against buying Japanese products. It wasn't necessarily true about things like Sony or Honda. And it's not necessarily true about products made by/for American companies in China (Apple).
That’s how you fight back otherwise the US is at an unfair advantage. Kind of like someone punching you in the nose, are you just going to take it or would you punch back.
Please explain the unfair advantage, and who is the unfairly advantaged recipient.
Not exactly.
The left politicians hate him because he threatens to change the grifting in a way that hurts them instead of maintaining equanimity in the grifting ecosphere.
The left rank and file hate him because he not only doesn’t bow to their myriad idols, he ridicules them.
I don’t think Trump gives a rat’s ass about big vs small government. He just sees the machine and the power brokering that can be manipulated for political ends.
Dan, your problem is that since he wasn't 100% conservative, he can't wear the label. Outside of Rand Paul (maybe), name 1 conservative, by your standard, in DC today.
At best Trump is 50% conservative, and that's probably high. I don't quibble with people that want to support the man. He is preferable over Hillary or Biden (or just about any other Democrat I can think of). I just ask that you quit calling him a conservative. I also don't quibble with your take on conservatives within the Republican Party, there are none that I can think of. And that, in my opinion, is in great part because Donald Trump swooped in and fundamentally changed the party into his image, which is mercantilist/nationalist/populist and no longer has a vesitge of conservatism in its ranks.
I would argue that the electorate was moving this direction before Trump came along. Trump seized the opportunity and the party grudgingly followed
Sorry I raise the kids I in pregnant in women from my penis.
Shit most conservatives aren't conservatives IMO. Most Trump people live pay check to paycheck. The politicians broke you all. Don't worry I am out here working on breaking the political wheel myself.
That’s an excellent point. Conservatism within the Republican Party was on its last gasp. Trump rolled in an delivered the final blow.
Who nationally, in this century, would you call conservative? You're view of conservatism is so extreme, that NOONE meets the criteria. Seriously. Anyone short of being a Quaker or Puritan, need not apply.
I think you are subtly attempting to shift focus away from the point (Trump is not a conservative) and onto me (if I say Trump is not a conservative, then who do I think is). If you think Trump is a true conservative I’d ask you to make your argument. Several posts back, for example, @GunsOfFrankEaton provided a link from Heritage Foundation lauding that he instituted a great many of the programs and policies they had provided him with, and there aren’t many organizations as conservative as Heritage. It was a powerful presentation by Guns. But if you read his link it says Heritage was able to provide all those policies because he didn’t have any of his own. Trump himself has bragged that he’s a blank slate, governs by his gut, latches onto whatever appeals to him at the moment. And he governed that way, he was (and remains) a loose cannon without principles - conservative principles - to help guide him in his decision making. Look, all I’ve been saying in this thread is Trump is not a conservative and you should not call him one or think he is one. The main reason people think he is is because he courageously stood in front of the left-wing machine and slowed its progress, and people think only a conservative could do that. When there are other political ideologies that are not conservative out there, and Trump has hatched his own big government brand that has some conservative elements in it, but on the whole presents its own authoritarian face. Applaud the man for being a roadblock to left wing tyranny! I do as well. But be careful of what you think you’re endorsing. You may be surprised to discover it will put us in the same position you thought he would get us out of.
Last edited:
Dude, you're a riot. I don't care what Trump calls himself. He made conservatism happen in action in a way that no other president in U.S. history has ever made it happen. I don't care what books by conservative authors he's read or hasn't read. D.C. is chock full of a bunch of worthless, money-sucking do-nothings who have read Hayek, Friedman, Rand, Gilder and all the rest. None of those well-read, erudite leeches would ever have appointed judges to the Supreme Court who would overturn Roe and end "affirmative action." You love the man who can say he's read a laundry list of books. God forbid if they suddenly get up off their asses and make what they've read in those books happen. Men of Action are usually quite different in personality than intellectuals.
Last edited:
I understand what you are saying. I take it from your words that you will not have an issue with no longer calling him a conservative?
Trump gets conservatism done. Call him what you will. You're getting bogged down in the same donothingism that has plagued the country for too long.
He was a conservative. Not on every front, which is why he doesn't check your box, but that's a standard that noone can achieve, as proven by 2 responses without a single name of who you believe meets your bar. He lowered taxes (conservative), appointed fundamentalist judges (conservative), pushed conservative ideals within NATO and the UN (conservative), deregulated industries (conservative), expanded US drilling (conservative). The only non-conservative thing he did was not rein in the budget pre-Covid and caved to the DC mafia spending Covid spending binge. But he didn't bat 1.000, thus in your book, he's not a conservative.
Mostly the argument about buying Japanese back then was because of Pearl Harbor and the fight with them after. Those people from that generation were very anti Japan for that very reason, not because their products were crap.
Japan made quality products, China doesn't. Absolutely everything I have bought thats made in China breaks sometimes after just one use. I have things that were made in Japan 30 to 40 yrs ago that are still going.
I no longer buy Apple Products as I have not had good luck with their products either.
On top of that China is an oppressive Communist Regime. **** em.
Last edited:
Okay, it sounds to me like what you’re saying is he’s not a conservative, but he’s conservative enough for you. That’s a totally legitimate argument.
Is there anyone out there but our own selves that would be the perfect President? Is RFK Jr your perfect president?
