Coaching this team (long)

[KCCowboy1]

Two of my three wishes for Mike he’s now doing: use TO’s to limit opponents runs, and cut down those allowed to launch 3’s and as important change when they launch them. Yesterday only 2 of our attempts did I shake my head in disgust at being horrible takes, which is down dramatically the last few weeks.

My last one is to spin Keylan down in the lane somewhere. Doesn’t matter what happened in HS, he has zero confidence outside. We’re seeing Kalib’s low post game take off with his newly found confidence. Keylan should be that free throw line area big to drive/shoot and crash the boards, not a post player. Out by the 3 pt line for him is a waste. Confidence for him I think would be the same results we see from Kalib and a difference maker for this team in the long run.

 

[dnhall]

He has to improve his team in these three areas in my opinion:

1. Value every possession! Make certain a good to great shot is worked for and taken.

2. Get players to focus on rebounding and within sets understand where shots are likely to come from and position for put backs offensively, and defensively, focus on blocking out in your zone area or your man every time a shot goes up. We are almost totally reactionary in our defense after shots instead of intentional in finding someone to block out.

3. Defense travels and should be dominant at home because it is based on effort and focus of fundamental body position, weight balance, and pride!

If we are honest, this team struggles with focus, consistent effort, and ball security. Clean up these areas and we may have a team that can be tough to deal with.

 

[Been Jammin]

He has to improve his team in these three areas in my opinion:

1. Value every possession! Make certain a good to great shot is worked for and taken.

2. Get players to focus on rebounding and within sets understand where shots are likely to come from and position for put backs offensively, and defensively, focus on blocking out in your zone area or your man every time a shot goes up. We are almost totally reactionary in our defense after shots instead of intentional in finding someone to block out.

3. Defense travels and should be dominant at home because it is based on effort and focus of fundamental body position, weight balance, and pride!

If we are honest, this team struggles with focus, consistent effort, and ball security. Clean up these areas and we may have a team that can be tough to deal with.

Agree with 2 and 3. Not sure 1 makes sense. With almost no 3 point shooting on the roster, settling into a half court offense is going to result in a lot of empty possessions. Defense can just pack it in to prevent the drive and be ready to get the defensive rebound. We are better off pushing the ball and trying to score, or draw the foul, before the defense is able to get set. It often gets us in trouble, and results in a dumb turnover, which is frustrating.
However, think back to last season. The ball would just stop in Lindy or Ice’s hands on the three point line. With 5 seconds left, some would take a desperation low percentage shot. It was maddening. I will take this over that.
Hopefully, with Kalib playing better in the post, the rushing will reduce, and we will set into the half court and try to get the ball to him under the basket.

 

[southernpoke]

1. He has a major problem identifying character and with player retention

2. Most of the time his strategy is “if we shoot well we win” which is why he is so inconsistent

I think number 1 will be his undoing and in normal situations probably would/should have already got him canned

Such genius. If we shoot well we can win. We shot 35% and won yesterday bro

 

[Poke_Dawg]

I think he’s improved this year - quite a bit. If nothing else, he seems to have recognized issues and corrected them - better use of TO’s - called one with 8:45 left in 1st half to stop a run. Called one with 19 seconds left in 1 OT and drew up a nice play. Shortened rotation. Bottom line - we hired a good coach (IMO) that was very inexperienced in game management and program building. Patience is required in that situation. Does zero good to get to this point and start over. Thats just folks being selfish and pretentious, IMO.

 

[OrangeRoberto]

I think he’s improved this year - quite a bit. If nothing else, he seems to have recognized issues and corrected them - better use of TO’s - called one with 8:45 left in 1st half to stop a run. Called one with 19 seconds left in 1 OT and drew up a nice play. Shortened rotation. Bottom line - we hired a good coach (IMO) that was very inexperienced in game management and program building. Patience is required in that situation. Does zero good to get to this point and start over. Thats just folks being selfish and pretentious, IMO.

Hate to say it...but a good coach from a mid-major like Creighton's could come in, make adjustments and go to the tournament every year with half the talent. You've got to implement a system that way you don't have years where you put a product out there that looks like McNeese State.

 

[Poke_Dawg]

Hate to say it...but a good coach from a mid-major like Creighton's could come in, make adjustments and go to the tournament every year with half the talent. You've got to implement a system that way you don't have years where you put a product out there that looks like McNeese State.

And thats exactly my point. McDermott has been a head coach for 17 years and coached over 800 games as a head coach And makes $1.4 MM. We chose MB cuz he we’ll be a good coach - someday. With that path, patience is required. I feel comfident MB will have a system - can see signs of it developing - but it wasnt going to be finished in year 1. Thats just asinine.

 

[CentralPoke]

Texas was horrible from deep yesterday, absolutely awful. We were fortunate cause that allowed us to stay in the zone. They missed a bunch of wide open looks. We go back to man, we get in foul trouble, Boone and Cade likely foul out.

We missed a shit ton of easy shots too. We hit either of our bunnies at the end of regulation and it doesn’t even go into OT. There’s a reason it was like 65-65 in 2OT at one pint. Both defenses played well but both offense sucked in their own special way too

 

[BiloxiPoke]

Two of my three wishes for Mike he’s now doing: use TO’s to limit opponents runs, and cut down those allowed to launch 3’s and as important change when they launch them. Yesterday only 2 of our attempts did I shake my head in disgust at being horrible takes, which is down dramatically the last few weeks.

My last one is to spin Keylan down in the lane somewhere. Doesn’t matter what happened in HS, he has zero confidence outside. We’re seeing Kalib’s low post game take off with his newly found confidence. Keylan should be that free throw line area big to drive/shoot and crash the boards, not a post player. Out by the 3 pt line for him is a waste. Confidence for him I think would be the same results we see from Kalib and a difference maker for this team in the long run.

Totally agree about Keylan. We need to quit viewing him as a perimeter threat and and let him live in the paint crashing the boards. It’s not often you have another 6’7 guy you can just throw in there to handle rebounds alongside MA and Kalib.

 

[beeger43]

I think it’s clear Mike Boynton is a great leader.

I think we nitpick his substitutions and in-game coaching more than he deserves.

People have mentioned “discipline.” I don’t think it’s a matter of sitting someone when they make a mistake. We haven’t really even had that option in recent years...

Clearly, Mike has pushed the right buttons late in the season the past couple years, resulting in impressive turnarounds, so he’s able to get the players to respond. Last year’s team went from launching a three every trip down to actively avoiding them unless absolutely necessary. That’s a pretty amazing change to implement mid-season!

While others question his “discipline,” I primarily question is his teaching ability. It’s all about communication. I’m sure he thinks he’s clearly communicating what he expects from them in practice, but if it’s not translating to in-game action, he needs to present the message in a different way.

I often wonder if he emphasizes the fundamentals of the game enough in practice. As I mentioned in the game thread, I think the team makes a ton of little mistakes, and that’s more of an issue than Boynton’s in-game substitutions and strategy. It’s hard to properly execute astrategy if you haven’t yet mastered the fundamentals and you keep dribbling the ball off your own foot...

On the other hand, I do think we have several high-energy players who tend to be high-risk/high-reward type of guys. Now, they’re also relatively young and inexperienced, and would likely be having similar issues under most coaches. So I’m just not sure yet if this is a Boynton issue or a youth issue. If you remember, Byron Eaton was a turnover machine for his first couple of years, before he finally got it together as a junior and senior. I feel like we’ve just got a few Eatons on this team. And honestly, Anderson’s improved a lot since last season and MAY be ahead of Eaton’s pace.

Sorry, those are just my rambling thoughts!

 

[CentralPoke]

I'm going to make a comparison to the Cowgirls. I think Mike has done (and maybe felt like he had to) what Kurt Budke did in the early years of his tenure with the Cowgirls. Now, I'm not comparing Andrea Riley to a knucklehead like Weathers, but she got a LOT more rope than she probably should have because the Cowgirls NEEDED her athleticism to have a shot in the Big XII. I think early in a coach's tenure--especially in a suboptimal situation like what Budke inherited and what Mike inherited--there is an inclination to take more risks on marginal kids. You're gonna get burned on some of those. Sometimes, you might get burned on a lot of those. But after a few years and getting more settled, the recruiting gets more stable, the kids less risky.

I think we're on the precipice of that with Mike. How many guys have you watched this year and said "Imagine what this guy looks like with a year in the weight room?" I think this freshman class has LOADS of potential--even, maybe even especially, in a post-Cade world. Kalib Boone has found himself after a terrible start to the season and has been, arguably, our best player the last handful of games. And they all seem like good kids, high character kids, good in the classroom kids. Maybe we lose one or two of them (Cade notwithstanding), but if we don't, I think the ceiling for these underclassmen is ridiculously high.

I agree that some of Mike's decisions haven't been ideal. I wish he'd use his timeouts more to stop runs rather than waiting for the media timeouts. I don't always understand his substitution decisions. But given some of the weirdness of this year, I think he's done--overall--his best coaching job yet which is what you want--it means he's growing. He's getting better. At some point, that's all you can ask for.

On that first paragraph I agree. Another comparison is Scott Drew. As much as I dislike Baylor, they had a ton of trouble, past sanctions and losing for a long time. He took chances on guys like Aaron Bruce and Lace Dunn among others. He actually gradually found a system and his niche and recruited really well to it.

People used to question Drew’s recruiting tactics and coaching ability. I doubt anyone says either of those anymore

 

[Poke_Dawg]

Totally agree about Keylan. We need to quit viewing him as a perimeter threat and and let him live in the paint crashing the boards. It’s not often you have another 6’7 guy you can just throw in there to handle rebounds alongside MA and Kalib.

Dont disagree, but Keylan needs to buy into that too. He may see himself as a perimeter guy. No idea, but sometimes we forget the player is a part of the equation..,

 

[dnhall]

Agree with 2 and 3. Not sure 1 makes sense. With almost no 3 point shooting on the roster, settling into a half court offense is going to result in a lot of empty possessions. Defense can just pack it in to prevent the drive and be ready to get the defensive rebound. We are better off pushing the ball and trying to score, or draw the foul, before the defense is able to get set. It often gets us in trouble, and results in a dumb turnover, which is frustrating.
However, think back to last season. The ball would just stop in Lindy or Ice’s hands on the three point line. With 5 seconds left, some would take a desperation low percentage shot. It was maddening. I will take this over that.
Hopefully, with Kalib playing better in the post, the rushing will reduce, and we will set into the half court and try to get the ball to him under the basket.

Inside out with a lead wouldn’t be bad even if we can’t always count on perimeter scoring. Kaleb may give us that provided we don’t get caught watching him work without moving to an open spot in case he kicks it back to us! I just hate all the empty possessions, many with no shot getting off at the basket. Rumor has it you can’t score without shooting the basketball! We should understand that as many empty possessions as we produce.

 

[BiloxiPoke]

Dont disagree, but Keylan needs to buy into that too. He may see himself as a perimeter guy. No idea, but sometimes we forget the player is a part of the equation..,

Definitely

 

[CBradSmith]

I am of the opinion that the old school coaching techniques, although they may work, really are not socially acceptable to athletes and their parents today. If you want to recruit well, you better not have a reputation for Coaching from a perspective of fear, intimidation, and punishment. Look at Wichita State, it works, but it gets you fired. Society has changed.

This is a spot-on take and should be talked about more. It's one I've forced myself to think on a lot in the last few months.

Having lived and breathed basketball during the Sutton era, this new philosophy and method flies in almost direct opposition to everything I've learned, valued, and bought in to.

Society has changed, and you're right, those "old school" coaching tactics aren't going to attract athletes who have several schools to choose from...at least not until you have a brand Program from which to recruit (like Duke or Alabama in football).

In future seasons, we'll be less likely to have to pull out our hair as MB undoubtedly smooths the retention issue, and he builds consistency. We'll have a team that's played together for a few seasons and will be less reliant on the newcomers and the youngsters. We'll see less stupid and rushed plays. Youngsters will be given fewer minutes and allowed time to develop and mature under the tutelage of both coaches and upperclassmen.

It's been a challenge to shake up my etch-a-sketch on basketball philosophy, but in doing so, after that Texas win and against the backdrop that 1) we've been within 1 possession in all but 1 of the losses 2) in the strongest bball conference 3) while relying on a bunch of freshmen and sophomores, I can see the tide moving positively (maybe *very* positively) for the program.

 

[southernpoke]

Hate to say it...but a good coach from a mid-major like Creighton's could come in, make adjustments and go to the tournament every year with half the talent. You've got to implement a system that way you don't have years where you put a product out there that looks like McNeese State.

You mean like Travis Ford?

 

[southernpoke]

Southern, I didn't say we shouldn't run the zone. It has been our best defense all year. I said we are starting to stand around in it and I thought we should change to a man in a few more possessions. I said that because it causes their offense to recognize and change, which takes time, and it makes our guys get down and concentrate more.
The comment on not blocking out and getting the defensive rebound can be a byproduct of standing around in the zone. It is harder to block out in a zone than man. That plus Texas is a very long, good team with aggressive rebounders, made things worse today.
I'll stick by my thoughts and repeat that our zone is best with Walker and Williams at the top. It isn't as effective with AA and certainly not with Flavors. AA is very fast, but he reacts more slowly in the zone than the other two.
Not at all sure I would attribute their shooting percentage to our defense. They were wide open all day and just missed. A standard or sagging man-to-man could have the same effect and give us better block out opportunities. Overplaying and tight man-to-man 30 ft from the goal are what leads to easy drives with nobody to rotate and help.
I certainly don't think I'm any kind of genius, and would say the same things if we had made the same decisions and plays and they somehow won.
My thoughts were based on what I saw yesterday. I think Coach is responsible, and have said before his end game decisions have to be called into question with all the tight losses. I said I could find no fault with his end game decisions today. The comment about the zone was just an observation from watching the zone the second half in particular.

Well said. Thanks. When we switched to man late Texas immediately got a layup. Next time they went one on one again with Bryce and he blocked the shot. While they had some open 3s many were rushed and late in the shot clock. We also let Cunningham and Brown take them because both are poor. They went 1-7. Coleman is barely over 30%. We made Ramey drive for the most part. Jones was 2-13, but did you know he is 31% on the year? He has hit a few big ones, but Texas is not that good from 3 point line anyway. People question Boynton, but we know our weakness and don’t shot a lot of 3s. They shot 35 instead of attacking Cade and Boone who each had 4 fouls.

 

[PokeMBA]

He is a good recruiter, average in-game coach, average game preparation coach, good motivator, and good face of the program.

The average in-game coaching and average game prep are glaring when we go up against well coached teams but I'm willing to live with the growing pains in hopes he "figures it all out" in due time.

If he can finish this regular season strong, he will have proven some of the outstanding questions on him as a false narrative and I would love to see it.

 

[SquinkY5786]

He is a good recruiter, average in-game coach, average game preparation coach, good motivator, and good face of the program.

The average in-game coaching and average game prep are glaring when we go up against well coached teams but I'm willing to live with the growing pains in hopes he "figures it all out" in due time.

If he can finish this regular season strong, he will have proven some of the outstanding questions on him as a false narrative and I would love to see it.

If his in game and prep coaching is so glaring. How have we swept Self and beat great teams like Huggie WV team in Morgan town and so on. I know it wasn’t out talenting them. Now I would say he has room to grow but the guy isn’t chopped liver. Or he would have won with guys like DZ and Waters and so on

 

[Been Jammin]

He is a good recruiter, average in-game coach, average game preparation coach, good motivator, and good face of the program.

The average in-game coaching and average game prep are glaring when we go up against well coached teams but I'm willing to live with the growing pains in hopes he "figures it all out" in due time.

If he can finish this regular season strong, he will have proven some of the outstanding questions on him as a false narrative and I would love to see it.

Serious question.

If he was a good game prep and in-game coach, would we be 16-1 and 9-1 right now? That sounds pretty crazy considering the holes in this roster, the youth of the roster, and the conference we are in.

 

[Poke_Dawg]

Many times, coaches do their best job just getting teams in the position to win at the end - and many fans dont recognize that.

 

[PokeMBA]

If his in game and prep coaching is so glaring. How have we swept Self and beat great teams like Huggie WV team in Morgan town and so on. I know it wasn’t out talenting them. Now I would say he has room to grow but the guy isn’t chopped liver. Or he would have won with guys like DZ and Waters and so on

I hate to break it to you but we have the #1 nba prospect and a team full of 4* recruits.

we aren’t at the talent deficiency you seem to think we are.

 

[SquinkY5786]

I hate to break it to you but we have the #1 nba prospect and a team full of 4* recruits.

we aren’t at the talent deficiency you seem to think we are.

I hate to break it to you but when I reference DZ and Water the first thing that pops in your head shouldn’t be this year. Guy has beaten so HOF coaches with talented teams with less talent. Not sure how he pulled that off with such terrible coaching

 

[PokeMBA]

I hate to break it to you but when I reference DZ and Water the first thing that pops in your head shouldn’t be this year. Guy has beaten so HOF coaches with talented teams with less talent. Not sure how he pulled that off with such terrible coaching

Yes, let’s look at outlier games and not the losing conference record over his first 3 years.

 

[SquinkY5786]

Yes, let’s look at outlier games and not the losing conference record over his first 3 years.

I’m just asking how does he do it. While having less talent and apparent terrible coaching. How does one beat a Texas tech team with basically 6 scholly players. Or sweep Kansas. Or beat OU, Texas, WV. Maybe their coaches are equally inept?

 

[CBradSmith]

I hate to break it to you but we have the #1 nba prospect and a team full of 4* recruits.

we aren’t at the talent deficiency you seem to think we are.

Is what makes him the #1 NBA prospect something we are able to take full advantage of with our current roster?

What was our combined returning starts returning this year? What is it for most of Top 10? Top 25?

There's more granularity than the recruiting metrics to which you're alluding.

 

[ClarkGeo]

Such genius. If we shoot well we can win. We shot 35% and won yesterday bro

stalkerpoke must be on the sauce again. Thinking one game makes a trend

 

[Been Jammin]

Serious question.

If he was a good game prep and in-game coach, would we be 16-1 and 9-1 right now? That sounds pretty crazy considering the holes in this roster, the youth of the roster, and the conference we are in.

@PokeMBA. You didn’t answer my question

 

[OrangeRoberto]

You mean like Travis Ford?

Ford never took UMass to multiple Tournaments like McDermitt does every year. Bad hire!

 

[osufanatic4life]

Someone else hit the nail on the head referring to us making fun of Drew earlier in his career as an X’s and O’s coach. It took time, but he’s certainly come a long way and found a formula for success.

Is HCMB the best coach in Big 12? No. Is he the best coach in the state? No. The difference is all those other coaches have cut their teeth and are either at the peaks of their careers or on the way down. HCMB has a high ceiling and has shown signs of improvement, and always has his teams playing their best ball at the end of season.

Rome wasn’t built in a day. Stop calling for his head after ever loss and let’s see how this plays out.

I’ve got a good feeling about the rest of the season.

 

[southernpoke]

I hate to break it to you but we have the #1 nba prospect and a team full of 4* recruits.

we aren’t at the talent deficiency you seem to think we are.

Hate to break it to you, but you wouldn't have a clue about preparation or in game coaching and having a high draft pick is great, but he is a freshman and so are two others in the top 7. Then there are 3 sophomores. Hate to break it to you, but that is a young team. His lousy preparation beat Self, Beard and Smart.

 

[PokeMBA]

@PokeMBA. You didn’t answer my question

I think we would win a higher % of the close ones. Probably beat TCU both times atleast.

 

[PokeMBA]

I hate to break it to you but when I reference DZ and Water the first thing that pops in your head shouldn’t be this year. Guy has beaten so HOF coaches with talented teams with less talent. Not sure how he pulled that off with such terrible coaching

Are you Boynton, his wife, or mom?

go read my post again. I stated he was an average in game and pre game prep coach. AVERAGE. Not terrible.

he has a 39 win % in conference. I’m sorry but that is below average and I’m giving him credit by saying average recognizing what he inherited, a few games he has won as underdog, and what appears to be an upward trend but we are only sitting at .500 over halfway through conference.

 

[PokeMBA]

Hate to break it to you, but you wouldn't have a clue about preparation or in game coaching and having a high draft pick is great, but he is a freshman and so are two others in the top 7. Then there are 3 sophomores. Hate to break it to you, but that is a young team. His lousy preparation beat Self, Beard and Smart.

Yes, people pose question to receive opinions and now I can’t hold an opinion because according to you “I don’t have a clue”.

I would think 2 years of collegiate juco ball and all state in hs gives me a little credibility to speak on basketball. Nevermind any fan can hold an opinion. But I appreciate you informing me that I’m not allowed to hold an opinion.

also once again,READ MY POST. I said Average. Not terrible and not lousy

 

[SquinkY5786]

Are you Boynton, his wife, or mom?

go read my post again. I stated he was an average in game and pre game prep coach. AVERAGE. Not terrible.

he has a 39 win % in conference. I’m sorry but that is below average and I’m giving him credit by saying average recognizing what he inherited, a few games he has won as underdog, and what appears to be an upward trend but we are only sitting at .500 over halfway through conference.

You said it glaring vs some of the better coaches. I haven’t seen glaring coaching mismatches during our games. I don’t like everything he does especially our stupid zone but we have been in every game besides Baylor. I think where he needed to grow was building an experienced roster and keep attrition down. Hopefully those days are behind us.

 

[killmnl]

No doubt his heart and soul is in the program and his players. IMO that is the reason Boynton recruits well, his players buy in and worthy of retention.

Frustrating part for fans is his learning curve still feels steep after 3+ years and that is worrisome.

 

[prich1087]

To those calling out his coaching, what percentage of big 12 games has he had at least an equal level of talent?

 

[southernpoke]

To those calling out his coaching, what percentage of big 12 games has he had at least an equal level of talent?

We have probably one NBA player on the roster. A few others with potential. But what some people can’t get in their head is that we play 3 freshman and 3 sophomores. KU has a Hall of Fame coach and 2-3 NBA players. This is a league with 6 coaches who have been to the Final 4 and 8 who have been to the Final 8. And they are veteran coaches......with that said.....with a young team he has not been overwhelmed in the best league in the country.

 

[Been Jammin]

Interesting stat...

At this moment, Boynton has played Self, Huggins and Kruger 7 times each and is 3-4 against all 3 of them.

 

[ClarkGeo]

Hate to break it to you, but you wouldn't have a clue about preparation or in game coaching and having a high draft pick is great, but he is a freshman and so are two others in the top 7. Then there are 3 sophomores. Hate to break it to you, but that is a young team. His lousy preparation beat Self, Beard and Smart.

Why do we always have a young team? That’s on Boynton.