B10 / SEC end goal?

[thetruth]

With the P2 wanting to change the seeding format, the number of teams in the tournament, and the automatic qualifiers, what is their end goal?
And how does the general public or rest of the fb playing country respond?
Will the rest of the country watch the P2 programs play all their Purdue vs Rutgers and Vandy vs Kentucky type games full well knowing they have no bearing on the outcome of the league’s participants in the playoffs?
That seems to be what the P2 are willing to bet on?

 

[sbaPoke]

The main thing they want is more money. And the biggest brands (the blue bloods largely) do indeed drive a hugely disproportionate share of the value and revenue coming in to CFB. The question becomes how far will they push towards their market value at the expense of the rest of the sport.

I can’t help with the rest.

 

[thetruth]

The main thing they want is more money. And the biggest brands (the blue bloods largely) do indeed drive a hugely disproportionate share of the value and revenue coming in to CFB. The question becomes how far will they push towards their market value at the expense of the rest of the sport.

I can’t help with the rest.

Certainly money is driving this train.

But how long will the viewing public buy into that model? I can see a huge portion of the public saying who cares? What’s in it for me? I just think the NFL and CFB are different animals.

 

[OSUGD]

Certainly money is driving this train.

But how long will the viewing public buy into that model? I can see a huge portion of the public saying who cares? What’s in it for me? I just think the NFL and CFB are different animals.

I'd like to think that, but not sure. I go back and forth. Sometimes I think there are enough fans of all the "others" to put a dent in ratings if their schools got the shaft. Other times I read threads on here gushing over what a great matchup some P2 game was and see people posting SEC shorts and get discouraged that any initial outrage would stick

 

[thetruth]

I'd like to think that, but not sure. I go back and forth. Sometimes I think there are enough fans of all the "others" to put a dent in ratings if their schools got the shaft. Other times I read threads on here gushing over what a great matchup some P2 game was and see people posting SEC shorts and get discouraged that any initial outrage would stick

But are there enough great matches to drive people to watch every week?
And while they could watch the great matchups, will they watch any other games? Maybe? 🤷‍♂️
What will networks pay for a matchup of Baylor vs ISU or TT vs OSU when the conference is considered mid-major? Without a bellcow in the conference to drive viewers?
What is 750k viewers worth to a broadcaster? Without the payoff of blueblood matchup at some point. I don’t know, I don’t think anyone knows at this time.

 

[The Duke]

 

[xplor58]

Well how good are the schools in question at marketing their programs???

 

[thetruth]

Well how good are the schools in question at marketing their programs???

Good question. Can marketing overcome perception? Maybe it’s an overblown concern? Handwringing for nothing.

 

[IPreferTheNFL]

Could there ever be any consideration to the other conferences saying fine, go be your P2 on your own. Then everyone else forming a new “league” with its own championship playoff? I have no idea the TV interest that would have, but I know I would be totally fine never watching an SEC/B10 game. I’m just finding myself having less and less interest in watching CFB, outside of OSU, with the way things are heading. It just feels rigged.

 

[pokemifyougotem]

Could there ever be any consideration to the other conferences saying fine, go be your P2 on your own. Then everyone else forming a new “league” with its own championship playoff? I have no idea the TV interest that would have, but I know I would be totally fine never watching an SEC/B10 game. I’m just finding myself having less and less interest in watching CFB, outside of OSU, with the way things are heading. It just feels rigged.

you mean the USFL?

 

[OSUGD]

Could there ever be any consideration to the other conferences saying fine, go be your P2 on your own. Then everyone else forming a new “league” with its own championship playoff? I have no idea the TV interest that would have, but I know I would be totally fine never watching an SEC/B10 game. I’m just finding myself having less and less interest in watching CFB, outside of OSU, with the way things are heading. It just feels rigged.

It would be seen as a lesser than championship. Cheap

 

[DCPokeFan]

Could there ever be any consideration to the other conferences saying fine, go be your P2 on your own. Then everyone else forming a new “league” with its own championship playoff? I have no idea the TV interest that would have, but I know I would be totally fine never watching an SEC/B10 game. I’m just finding myself having less and less interest in watching CFB, outside of OSU, with the way things are heading. It just feels rigged.

You've expressed my feelings more or less exactly!

 

[OKSTATE1]

If the BIG/SEC split away for their own Championship, it simply will not be seen as a true National Championship. That is a disaster IMO for any sport. Now, the winner of that game may very well be the best team in the country, but that is not a true national championship format. Perception is reality. It is simply a money grab, and players will go to the BIG/SEC because it pays the best. The BIG/SEC might be trying to create a quasi-monopoly. If they do create a monopoly, and I am no lawyer, would it hold up in court?

These are federally funded institutions as well, and does the creation of a monopoly impact Title IX negatively? Do schools that are tax exempt chasing a for profit monopoly model deserve for their exemption to be pulled if they no longer respect the Fed grant money they receive, Title IX, and their tax exemption when they no longer are acting in the best interest for all tax payers nationally in promoting their exempt purpose? As a taxpayer, I don't like tOSU as an example not paying taxes and while I do, they disadvantage Universities all across the country. That is not how I want my tax dollars spent, and they should give up that tax exemption if they want to do this.

Intentionally dividing your product after 100 years of brand development nationally, makes zero sense long-term, a BIG/SEC championship format is just a re-run of the regular season. BORING. It will be seen as a watered down version of the NFL with a rigged system. Only 2 conference fanbases around the Country will be happy. The Big/SEC needs to be reminded of the Bud Light boycott. I would predict a similar viewer revolt around the rest of their country. Even if viewership is "good", advertisers want their products marketed nationally, not just to a very regionalized market.

I would think rumors of them doing this is basically a negotiation tactic no different than you see what Trump does. The opening bid is so outrageous to those outside the BIG/SEC that they may cave to the BIG/SEC getting 4 auto bids. In the end, that is what the BIG/SEC currently wants. If it is to create a monopoly? I think you will see lawsuits from several angles. BIG/SEC may need to give up all Fed grant funding and their tax exemption if they want to run a for profit entity and basically be a Pro Sports league that competes with the NFL for Ad revenue. Will they perhaps split their AD departments from their University and privatize as a for profit entity and pay taxes and protect their schools from not receiving Fed grant money and violating Title IX?

The BIG/SEC is so drunk on power I am not sure they have thought this all way through.

Given the demand for live programming, maximizing ad revenues, not alienating a national college fanbase, etc. The logical answer is a super league. Politically this will be hard for the BIG/SEC because they have a few schools that do not deserve to belong to such a league. If the goal is the best product, with the best ratings, and the best revenues, the Super League is the way to go. And then you have to encase that league within a bubble of rules that creates a chance for every team to complete well and create the best product so Ad revenues are maximized.

 

[Pokes1988]

If driving revenue is truly the ultimate goal, there is no reason to keep certain school a part of the conferences....Why have Vanderbilt, Rutgers, and the like a part of the brand(s)....

It's not totally money driven, it's this moral superiority and they've managed to convince themselves any team in there conference can beat every team outside of the conferences.... Which normal fans know that's absolutely false in every way possible.

 

[TPOKE]

I have a favorite NFL team, one of 32 available. I have one favorite college football team out of over 100. I am not going to automatically love someone in the SEC or Big Ten because they’re in the elite conference.

 

[thetruth]

If driving revenue is truly the ultimate goal, there is no reason to keep certain school a part of the conferences....Why have Vanderbilt, Rutgers, and the like a part of the brand(s)....

It's not totally money driven, it's this moral superiority and they've managed to convince themselves any team in there conference can beat every team outside of the conferences.... Which normal fans know that's absolutely false in every way possible.

I disagree with part of your post. What the two P2 conferences are doing is positioning their conference to maximize their product. So far their moral superiority has proven to be correct. At least ESPN, Fox, etc seem to agree.

 

[thetruth]

I have a favorite NFL team, one of 32 available. I have one favorite college football team out of over 100. I am not going to automatically love someone in the SEC or Big Ten because they’re in the elite conference.

But you’ll watch their games, right? You don’t have to love them, or even like them to watch them play.

 

[OSUGD]

If the BIG/SEC split away for their own Championship, it simply will not be seen as a true National Championship.

I don't know that, that is true. Maybe for some of the fans of squeezed out schools, but for the majority of sports fans in this country they would see all the name brands in there and most all of the schools that have ever won a national championship in their lifetimes, and they'd view it as legitimate. The perception would be that schools were weeded out that didn't have a chance to win a championship anyway.

 

[OSUGD]

But you’ll watch their games, right? You don’t have to love them, or even like them to watch them play.

Unfortunately think you are right. People might be mad for a while, but a lot would come crawling back to watch the SEC/B10 and justify it because "its football on tv and its a good game", blah blah blah. Everyone will still pop on Michigan-Ohio State and Alabama-Auburn when they eating leftover Thanksgiving pie.

 

[OKSTATE1]

I don't know that, that is true. Maybe for some of the fans of squeezed out schools, but for the majority of sports fans in this country they would see all the name brands in there and most all of the schools that have ever won a national championship in their lifetimes, and they'd view it as legitimate. The perception would be that schools were weeded out that didn't have a chance to win a championship anyway.

There is a reason NCAA basketball tournament is so popular and the biggest cash cow the NCAA has.

There is a reason the AFL and NFL merged.

The winner will be the winner, but to have a true National championship it simply can not be made up of 2 regional conferences. My opinion is the BIG/SEC fans would call it legit and the remainder of the country would call it a rigged system with a financial monopoly on players and a pre-determined outcome.

 

[thetruth]

There is a reason NCAA basketball tournament is so popular and the biggest cash cow the NCAA has.

There is a reason the AFL and NFL merged.

The winner will be the winner, but to have a true National championship it simply can not be made up of 2 regional conferences. My opinion is the BIG/SEC fans would call it legit and the remainder of the country would call it a rigged system with a financial monopoly on players and a pre-determined outcome.

What you say may be true. But if people still watch it. And broadcasters still pay lots of money for it, they won’t care.

 

[OSUGD]

There is a reason NCAA basketball tournament is so popular and the biggest cash cow the NCAA has.

There is a reason the AFL and NFL merged.

The winner will be the winner, but to have a true National championship it simply can not be made up of 2 regional conferences. My opinion is the BIG/SEC fans would call it legit and the remainder of the country would call it a rigged system with a financial monopoly on players and a pre-determined outcome.

The NCAA tournament is popular because of the dramatic one and done nature, the Cinderella stories, and the fact that everyone in your office fills out a bracket. Its a cultural phenomenon. I don't think the legitimacy of the national champion it produces is that big of a factor. If they decided to cut out the Big Sky, MEAC, and Horizon league nobody would notice.

I doubt that your typical sports fan in America would look at a national champion in football that ran thru a 20 team SEC or B10, then won a playoff beating Alabama, Notre Dame, Penn State and Oregon and think they weren't a legitimate national champion just because Iowa State and Wake Forest got squeezed out of the party. I don't like it, but thats just the way I think it would go.

 

[OKSTATE1]

What you say may be true. But if people still watch it. And broadcasters still pay lots of money for it, they won’t care.

Broadcasters will want max ad revenue. If mostly a regional audience watches, that is not national reach, and that is leaving money on the table.

If hope if ESPN does this it ends up putting them in bankruptcy, they should miss ad targets IMO if they turn the national championship in to the BIG/SEC regional challenge. IF that happens I will not watch the BIG/SEC again. Of course, I have not had a Bud Light since you know what. The public has proven it is capable of a significant boycott.

 

[OSUGD]

Broadcasters will want max ad revenue. If mostly a regional audience watches, that is not national reach, and that is leaving money on the table.

If hope if ESPN does this it ends up putting them in bankruptcy, they should miss ad targets IMO if they turn the national championship in to the BIG/SEC regional challenge. IF that happens I will not watch the BIG/SEC again. Of course, I have not had a Bud Light since you know what. The public has proven it is capable of a significant boycott.

Fans of anyone outside the P2 should already be doing that. But they don't.

 

[OKSTATE1]

The NCAA tournament is popular because of the dramatic one and done nature, the Cinderella stories, and the fact that everyone in your office fills out a bracket. Its a cultural phenomenon. I don't think the legitimacy of the national champion it produces is that big of a factor. If they decided to cut out the Big Sky, MEAC, and Horizon league nobody would notice.

I doubt that your typical sports fan in America would look at a national champion in football that ran thru a 20 team SEC or B10, then won a playoff beating Alabama, Notre Dame, Penn State and Oregon and think they weren't a legitimate national champion just because Iowa State and Wake Forest got squeezed out of the party. I don't like it, but thats just the way I think it would go.

You will have ZERO Cinderella stories with a BIG/SEC regional championship. Zero intrigue, zero hope of any type of a surprise. ZERO intrigue as who makes the final 16. Gee, of these 32 teams going in to the season, which 16 will make it? The regular season becomes meaningless.

 

[OKSTATE1]

Fans of anyone outside the P2 should already be doing that. But they don't.

Some are doing it, but it will be taken to whole different level if it is a BIG/SEC regional championship. I give 2 phucks how those teams do, I want to see how my teams, in my region stack up. Arizona State stacked up, if not for a bad call IMO, they take out Texas. I had a reason to follow ASU this year in the play-off and tune in.

 

[OSUGD]

You will have ZERO Cinderella stories with a BIG/SEC regional championship. Zero intrigue, zero hope of any type of a surprise. ZERO intrigue as who makes the final 16. Gee, of these 32 teams going in to the season, which 16 will make it? The regular season becomes meaningless.

I don't think the perception of the legitimacy of a football national champion will be contingent on if there were any Cinderella stories along the way. The masses really get off on blueblood matchups in college football. Boise being included in the playoff was met with general scorn and derision, not excitement at the potential for a Cinderella moment.

 

[OSUGD]

Some are doing it, but it will be taken to whole different level if it is a BIG/SEC regional championship. I give 2 phucks how those teams do, I want to see how my teams, in my region stack up. Arizona State stacked up, if not for a bad call IMO, they take out Texas. I had a reason to follow ASU this year in the play-off and tune in.

I go back and forth on this. I hope you are right and there would be a big unplugging from the NFL lite by fans and alumni of schools that got pushed out. But I think after time the anger could wear off and people would be back to popping on the "big matchups", because its "good football", watching the playoffs on NYs etc. Again hope thats wrong. The philosophy that seems to be wrapped into all these decisions and changes is "you are still going to watch"

 

[OKSTATE1]

I don't think the perception of the legitimacy of a football national champion will be contingent on if there were any Cinderella stories along the way. The masses really get off on blueblood matchups in college football. Boise being included in the playoff was met with general scorn and derision, not excitement at the potential for a Cinderella moment.

I was using your argument for popularity that you made. I will tell you I work for an International Association that has world wide, continental, regional, and affiliate Championship formats and I have a decent feel for how things are perceived and the format really matters for most people. How you determine a champion matters a lot to people no matter how you slice it.

Obviously, you have an opinion and I have one and it is not worth arguing over.

 

[OSUGD]

I was using your argument for popularity that you made. I will tell you I work for an International Association that has world wide, continental, regional, and affiliate Championship formats and I have a decent feel for how things are perceived and the format really matters for most people. How you determine a champion matters a lot to people no matter how you slice it.

Obviously, you have an opinion and I have one and it is not worth arguing over.

It sounds good to think people will be mad about low to mid tier programs being left out, and I hope you are right, but just listening to the narratives around college football, the casual fan wants to see the big name matchups and just observing the playoff the general perception was that having teams like Boise and SMU get in, cheapened the playoff, not strengthened it.

 

[AlphPistolPete]

Right now it is a Saturday habit in the fall for me and millions of Americans. That habit will fade for the next generation as their schools are not invited or have zero chance of winning. Eventually the NFL will move to capture these fans and start playing on Saturday. It will take a few years but it will happen.

 

[OKSTATE1]

It sounds good to think people will be mad about low to mid tier programs being left out, and I hope you are right, but just listening to the narratives around college football, the casual fan wants to see the big name matchups and just observing the playoff the general perception was that having teams like Boise and SMU get in, cheapened the playoff, not strengthened it.

College football fans tend to be really passionate about their team. Casual fans IMO watch the NFL more than the college game.

This has nothing to do with being mad for most people, the boycott happens organically because there is no reason to watch.

First is the fundamental fact that any Championship format that is very exclusive/regionalized and is not fair, out of the starting gate for a huge part of the population will tell you that is not a true championship format.

The only reason for me to watch college football is to follow my team and my region, I want to win my Conference. The only reason for me to watch teams outside of my conference and region is related as to how it will impact my team and teams from my conference or region. Can my team, teams from my conference or region make the play-off? Who will it be? That is the intrigue. Is the championship format fair?

I have ZERO need to watch "casually" any college football game that will never impact my team or conference/region. I have zero reason to watch. Not as if this is the 60's or 70's with only 2 football games on Saturday on the TV and you either get your football fix or you don't. Hell, I loved listening to the Cowboys on the radio.

I can still watch my team and teams from my region and get my "casual" experience.

I have some rooting interests in the NFL, but not like I do for my Cowboys. And if I want to "casually" watch paid professional football? That for me is the NFL. Better competition, fair competition, higher level of play.

I don't know if it is an age deal, but my time too is precious on weekends with family, grandkids, other entertainment opportunities and hobbies, and weekend projects to make Alabama/Oklahoma, or tOSU/Oregon must watch TV that I tell the family I have something better to do for a football game that does not impact my team or my conference/region. Better ways to spend my time and right now I place family and other weekend matters over those types of games anyway if it comes down to it.

Just imagine UTN beating Bama and they go to OSU fans to brag and OSU fans don't give 2 shits or may not know who won or how? That will feel real good for UTN fans huh? Half the state no longer cares WTH you are even doing. Go clown on some Texas or Bama fans on the internet I guess.

 

[OSUGD]

College football fans tend to be really passionate about their team. Casual fans IMO watch the NFL more than the college game.

This has nothing to do with being mad for most people, the boycott happens organically because there is no reason to watch.

First is the fundamental fact that any Championship format that is very exclusive/regionalized and is not fair, out of the starting gate for a huge part of the population will tell you that is not a true championship format.

The only reason for me to watch college football is to follow my team and my region, I want to win my Conference. The only reason for me to watch teams outside of my conference and region is related as to how it will impact my team and teams from my conference or region. Can my team, teams from my conference or region make the play-off? Who will it be? That is the intrigue. Is the championship format fair?

I have ZERO need to watch "casually" any college football game that will never impact my team or conference/region. I have zero reason to watch. Not as if this is the 60's or 70's with only 2 football games on Saturday on the TV and you either get your football fix or you don't. Hell, I loved listening to the Cowboys on the radio.

I can still watch my team and teams from my region and get my "casual" experience.

I have some rooting interests in the NFL, but not like I do for my Cowboys. And if I want to "casually" watch paid professional football? That for me is the NFL. Better competition, fair competition, higher level of play.

I don't know if it is an age deal, but my time too is precious on weekends with family, grandkids, other entertainment opportunities and hobbies, and weekend projects to make Alabama/Oklahoma, or tOSU/Oregon must watch TV that I tell the family I have something better to do for a football game that does not impact my team or my conference/region. Better ways to spend my time and right now I place family and other weekend matters over those types of games anyway if it comes down to it.

Just imagine UTN beating Bama and they go to OSU fans to brag and OSU fans don't give 2 shits or may not know who won or how? That will feel real good for UTN fans huh? Half the state no longer cares WTH you are even doing. Go clown on some Texas or Bama fans on the internet I guess.

I understand your reasoning, and could agree with it. I go back and forth. What you are saying is logical, I quit watching the B10/SEC when the last round of realignment kicked off, but then I see how even though the end game is clear people even on here still watching the "big games", playoff, hate watching OU, giggling at SEC shorts and I think there is a strong possibility enough would come crawling back in time. That is certainly what the networks would be betting on.

 

[OKSTATE1]

I understand your reasoning, and could agree with it. I go back and forth. What you are saying is logical, I quit watching the B10/SEC when the last round of realignment kicked off, but then I see how even though the end game is clear people even on here still watching the "big games", playoff, hate watching OU, giggling at SEC shorts and I think there is a strong possibility enough would come crawling back in time. That is certainly what the networks would be betting on.

What might happen in the future is so much more unfair than what is happening now. The networks are idiots if they allow the BIG/SEC to strong arm them. Usually when you lose a customer, you don't get them back. Retaining a customer is much easier than recruiting one. Estimated that the cost to retain is 5 times cheaper than recruiting one. Hope is not a strategy.

 

[EvilPOKES]

Not that it is worth anything, but Clemson and FSU boards are going apeshit about wanting FSU/Clemson/VaTech/Miami to come to Big12 and dissolve ACC for good. I wouldn't necessarily be against it if it meant a Big3 with an even split of AQ across the table with the same amount being given to non-Big3 (I'd say even more for G7 or whatever the hell it would be).

Plus, force no more indy schools, period.

 

[TPOKE]

But you’ll watch their games, right? You don’t have to love them, or even like them to watch them play.

I’ll watch a tier 2 Texas Tech against KState game before an Alabama vs Tennessee. I watch very little football outside the Big 12. If they relied on people like me they’d die.

 

[O-State1974]

 

[tcpoke]

The thing to know/remember is that Oklahoma State, along with a bunch of other schools, is laser focused on getting into either the SEC or B1G in the next (and likely last) round of realignment. The belief is that after the next round of realignment there will be a new division of college football that will be set up similar to the NFL with two conferences and multiple divisions within each conference.

 

[ksupoke]

The belief is that after the next round of realignment there will be a new division of college football that will be set up similar to the NFL with two conferences and multiple divisions within each conference.

I wonder how big that new division will be.

 

[tcpoke]

I wonder how big that new division will be.

Everyone is wondering the same thing.