ADVERTISEMENT

A Harshly Critical Examination Of The Trump Administration’s Foreign Policy

Enough of the foreign policy talk, we need more literal interpretation of PoncaDan's comment about geometric progression.
I have a degree in Math from OSU. Hence my prodding. I hate it when people misuse those terms. Especially when they put an exclamation point to emphasize their misuse. He obviously didn't know what he was typing. And it was funny to me to point it out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GunsOfFrankEaton
I beg to disagree.

Trump as vacillated between threatening to rain hell fury on the "Little Rocket Man" to seeking a diplomatic rapprochement (for which I praised him). He has threatened military action several times against North Korea, both in words and deeds.

The Trump team hand selected Guido (sp?) to become America's puppet in Venezuela. And has attempted a coup which failed. Trump's Sec. of State, Pompeo, has repeatedly said the military option is on the table.

We not only have threatened war in Syria, we've dropped hundreds (if not thousands) of bombs on Syria. We have armed two opposing factions in Syria.

You already admit we threaten Iran (on an almost daily basis), and the latest reasons for our threats have been scoffed at by our allies.

Regarding the author’s comparison between tariffs and war, I regret I am too computer ignorant to know how to ,post a link within a post, but I would direct your attention to the link provided in the OP when he makes such a claim, a claim that has been leveled at Trump by our allies.

On the whole Donald Trump has been a middling president, not great and not horrible. He most certainly is superior to what Hillary would have been. (She's so beholden to the Neocons she would have had us in a war within 6 months.) I applaud him on much of his domestic agenda. But his foreign policy is a giant cluster. He obviously doesn't know what he's doing, and he's leaving decisions up to the same palookas that Obama relied upon.

It is not without reason that many people, Americans and allies alike, are clutching their pearls. His (the Neocons') version of brinksmanship is incredibly dangerous. People such as this author, people pointing out the stupidity of our foreign policy under Neocon control, are not necessarily anti-Trump or anti-American. They are serious people that are very concerned over what our policy may lead to. They are not unpatriotic. Just the opposite, in fact.
Trump isn't getting us in a war with anyone. Period.

The only way we would go to war is if we were directly attacked. Anything else is just hand wringing. The more you harp on this the more you make a fool of yourself.
 
I have a degree in Math from OSU. Hence my prodding. I hate it when people misuse those terms. Especially when they put an exclamation point to emphasize their misuse. He obviously didn't know what he was typing. And it was funny to me to point it out.
You don't think Ponca Dan knows what a geometric progression is? It didn't tip you off that he was using figurative language when he used a math term when referring to something that can't actually be quantified?
 
You don't think Ponca Dan knows what a geometric progression is? It didn't tip you off that he was using figurative language when he used a math term when referring to something that can't actually be quantified?
Yes, I don't think he knows the difference between an algebraic, geometric, logarithmic, harmonic, or exponential progression. I don't think he was using it figuratively at all.
 
I don't see many NeoCons on this board.
You don't?


During January 2009 at the end of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs and prominent critic of Neoconservatism, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism": "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms", a "low tolerance for diplomacy", a "readiness to use military force", an "emphasis on US unilateral action", a "disdain for multilateral organizations" and a "focus on the Middle East".
 
You don't?


During January 2009 at the end of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs and prominent critic of Neoconservatism, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism": "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms", a "low tolerance for diplomacy", a "readiness to use military force", an "emphasis on US unilateral action", a "disdain for multilateral organizations" and a "focus on the Middle East".
I don't think that's an accurate description but even so I don't see many on this board like that. Many more libertarian tendencies.
 
I would say this is the attitude of many if not most Americans. And it certainly represents the attitude of our government, an attitude that has been amplified by the Trump administration. It is very short-sighted. Many Americans think we don't need them (our allies), they need us. They're either with us or against us. It's a truly nationalist attitude, one that has led to virtually every war humans have ever fought. It's an attitude that has created resentment among our allies, resentment that is reaching a boiling point for many of them. That's why they are bouncing around looking for alternatives to American hegemony.

There's an Australian show on Netflix or Amazon (I forget which), Secret City. Australian relations with America are an insignificant story line of the show, but it portrays how many of our supposedly closest friends are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with their arrangement with the US. In the show the US expects Australia to do as its told, even when what they are told to do is counter to Australia's best interest, because the priority is what America wants, what's deemed to be in America's best interest. I don't want to overplay Australia's reaction. It is nothing that affects relations. And of course Australia does what it's told to do. But it shows the resentment Australia has as it has to swallow its pride and do what America tells it to do. Multiply that resentment by the number of allies we treat as minions for the last several decades and one should be able to recognize that America needs to change the way it treats the rest of the world. That's one of the points being made by the opinion piece in the OP. People will be pushed around to a point, and then they will push back. The American government should be sensitive to the way it treats other countries, especially those countries it calls allies, countries that the US may need some day.

PD with all due respect that is BS! I'm in Australia right now and am here every other month. The vast majority of Australians I talk to love Trump and they like that he is standing up to the "establishment." They bring it up, not me. I do not want to mix politics with business dealings, but if someone wants to talk about it then that's a different animal. My guess is that the "disgruntled Australians" on this show are picked ahead of time. By in large people here like Trump. Hell there is even politicians running on "Make Australia Great Again." That Australians are just puppets at the hand of their US Master is total and complete bullshit.

The discussion I do get into and most disagree with me is about the 2nd Amendment. Of course they NEVER hear about the good guys using a licensed weapon to stop a crime.......wonder why that is?

You continue to cry wolf, or Trump in this case, about things that haven't happened and or have a very low percentage of happening.
 
I don't think that's an accurate description but even so I don't see many on this board like that. Many more libertarian tendencies.
Everyone likes to label people. A neocon (whatever the F that is) has "a readiness to use military action". Anyone who has been in the military and has to fight the battles are probably the last ones to want to go to war. However, many are not afraid to go to war if that is what is needed. There is a difference.
 
PD with all due respect that is BS! I'm in Australia right now and am here every other month. The vast majority of Australians I talk to love Trump and they like that he is standing up to the "establishment." They bring it up, not me. I do not want to mix politics with business dealings, but if someone wants to talk about it then that's a different animal. My guess is that the "disgruntled Australians" on this show are picked ahead of time. By in large people here like Trump. Hell there is even politicians running on "Make Australia Great Again." That Australians are just puppets at the hand of their US Master is total and complete bullshit.

The discussion I do get into and most disagree with me is about the 2nd Amendment. Of course they NEVER hear about the good guys using a licensed weapon to stop a crime.......wonder why that is?

You continue to cry wolf, or Trump in this case, about things that haven't happened and or have a very low percentage of happening.


Yes, I am well aware that you have spent much of your time in Australia. How much I envy you! Australia has long been on my bucket list of places I want to visit, but at my age I imagine it is time to set that dream aside.

I hope I didn’t mislead you with my reference to the Australian tv show. It’s a fictitious story of the internal dealings within the Aussie government, not a reality show. And as I said the portion that includes dealing with America is so insignificant as to have almost no bearing on the storyline. At any rate it touches on how Australian government politicians and bureaucrats get frustrated when America demands they act against Australia’s interest. It’s mostly about secret stuff (thus the name, Secret City. It’s a terrific show, I highly recommend it!) and does not discuss what the general public thinks, mainly because the general public is left in the dark about what’s going on. I just used that show as an example, which I believe is relatively accurate.

And yes, I along with countless others continue to cry wolf when we see actions our government is taking in our name that we believe are dangerous. I, along with countless others see DJT as playing a hazardous game of chicken with the potential fate of humanity at stake. You can expect me to continue to wring my hands, as oststedchi likes to put it. So if it bothers you I would recommend you ignore my postings. I do appreciate that you argue against the message and not the messenger.
 
yes, I along with countless others continue to cry wolf when we see actions our government is taking in our name that we believe are dangerous. I, along with countless others see DJT as playing a hazardous game of chicken with the potential fate of humanity at stake. You can expect me to continue to wring my hands, as oststedchi likes to put it. So if it bothers you I would recommend you ignore my postings. I do appreciate that you argue against the message and not the messenger.

QiTDwODnnMwMg.gif
 
You don't?


During January 2009 at the end of President George W. Bush's second term in office, Jonathan Clarke, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs and prominent critic of Neoconservatism, proposed the following as the "main characteristics of neoconservatism": "a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms", a "low tolerance for diplomacy", a "readiness to use military force", an "emphasis on US unilateral action", a "disdain for multilateral organizations" and a "focus on the Middle East".
joNAthAN clARk
 
I beg to disagree.

Trump as vacillated between threatening to rain hell fury on the "Little Rocket Man" to seeking a diplomatic rapprochement (for which I praised him). He has threatened military action several times against North Korea, both in words and deeds.

The Trump team hand selected Guido (sp?) to become America's puppet in Venezuela. And has attempted a coup which failed. Trump's Sec. of State, Pompeo, has repeatedly said the military option is on the table.

We not only have threatened war in Syria, we've dropped hundreds (if not thousands) of bombs on Syria. We have armed two opposing factions in Syria.

You already admit we threaten Iran (on an almost daily basis), and the latest reasons for our threats have been scoffed at by our allies.

Regarding the author’s comparison between tariffs and war, I regret I am too computer ignorant to know how to ,post a link within a post, but I would direct your attention to the link provided in the OP when he makes such a claim, a claim that has been leveled at Trump by our allies.

On the whole Donald Trump has been a middling president, not great and not horrible. He most certainly is superior to what Hillary would have been. (She's so beholden to the Neocons she would have had us in a war within 6 months.) I applaud him on much of his domestic agenda. But his foreign policy is a giant cluster. He obviously doesn't know what he's doing, and he's leaving decisions up to the same palookas that Obama relied upon.

It is not without reason that many people, Americans and allies alike, are clutching their pearls. His (the Neocons') version of brinksmanship is incredibly dangerous. People such as this author, people pointing out the stupidity of our foreign policy under Neocon control, are not necessarily anti-Trump or anti-American. They are serious people that are very concerned over what our policy may lead to. They are not unpatriotic. Just the opposite, in fact.

I never thought you were so millinialish to assume that every tweet is 100% literal and would be enacted immediately. Actions mean more to me than a 128 characters. And his actions have been to suspend the wargames with SK and actually meet and negotiate with the leader of NK. That's a long ass ways from threaten war.

Did we hand select Guido? Not sure. But I agree we supported him and even his coupe attempt. Something needs to be done and that's a whole lot different than sending American troops to overthrow the government. Proof is in the pudding. When Guido didn't get his peoples and military's support and his coupe attempt fell apart, we let it. We didn't suddenly send in troops to ensure our guy's win. Its worth noting that 10% of the country's population has become refugees in Columbia (over 3 million people). Can't fault the president for trying something to help while showing restraint in regards to our own troops.

Syria. That's a laugh. Yes, we launched rockets. Following our allies all agreeing that the country Chemically Gassed its own people. I actually didn't like the attack. I don't think Assad did it, but that's what the media reported that the UN (our allies) were reporting. So a single, restrained, targeted attack in response to a serious war crime, again fails to support this war-monger attitude that is attributed to Trump.

Iran is the lone outlier, but I don't see us getting into a war there either.

As for the author's comparisons of tariffs and war, its irrelevant who makes the comparison. #FACTS, if tariffs equal war, then we have been at war since George Washington was president. Generally with our greatest allies. Its a stupid analogy no matter who says it. As for sanctions, the ones we are talking about (NK) are our allies sanctions. These were passed by UN Security resolutions. Articles stating that our allies don't support these actions seem pretty obtuse about the fact that its the allies who passed the sanctions in the first place. Trump just happens to be the first president who has actually and forcibly enforced them.

I don't like Brinksmanship, but I also recognize that for some it works. I find it odd that the media has reported for years that Kim Jun Un (?) is a childlike imbecile who has no real understanding of diplomacy. Past presidents from both sides have failed to reason with him (or his prior family) and reach any kind of accord. Trump dumbed everything down, treated him like he was 12 and amazingly got through to him, and outside of one short-range missile test (more on this in a minute), has basically been on good behavior since Trump explained in 12 year old terms, that the consequence of not cooperating isn't more talk (like the past 10 presidents) but is more significant. And lets be honest. Trump only told the truth. If NK attacked Japan or SK, the crater the US would create would make South Korea an island.

Oh and about that short range missile launch. It was such an amazing coincidence that it happened the week that China reneged on its trade agreements. The one political position where both parties agreed with Trump and his trade administration that China had negotiated in bad faith and was responsible for the breakdown. You don't think China wanted some distraction on the world stage? Trump is right here. There is nothing to worry about in regards to the short-range missile tests by NK. China wanted a distraction, and the anti-Trump media was more than happy to play this global game of 3-card Monty.

In the end, frankly, I agree with most of Trump's actions on the world stage. I think he looked stupid with his comments on Biden while in Japan (today). That's the unpresidential side that I don't like about him. But as for actual policy, my issues are pretty minor. Too many countries have been scared to do anything that China won't like because they want access to the Billion people and growing economy that China offers. Trump is the first politician in years (and not just in this country) that has actually had the balls to stand up to China and demand fair play rather than turn a blind eye on the atrocities of trade, IP theft, and human rights violations that China has engaged in for years. I applaud him. He understands that China needs us as much as we need them and is willing to use that leverage for the betterment of society.

Beyond this, what else foreign policy wise has Trump done? He pulled out of the Paris accord. I agree with him here. He brought visibility to the failings of basically every other NATO member in regards to holding their end of the NATO accord in regards to defense spending and NATO budgeting. He's called out the absurdities of the UN Human Rights council being chaired by IRAN of all countries as well as our outsized share of the org's funding. Agree with him on both points. He moved our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. I thought it was a waste of money, but signaled our strong support of Israel. This is probably the one area where you could criticize Trump the most. He is very pro-Israel, and its shows starkly compared to Obama's very anti-Israel positions. There's probably middle ground between the two that is more ideal for the US.

Finally, I've not called anyone Unamerican. Everyone is allowed an opinion. I don't agree with the NEOCONS. I don't want boots on the ground anywhere but our borders. But you can't blame Trump for any of the current messes. But I agree with him on both points. Where we are, we are there to win. And thus we MOABed areas, and the ISIS caliphate is no longer. And when the mission is done, we should be getting our troops home, yet as he's tried this, the real globalists who write these same Anti-Trump articles, are the ones interviewing the generals they know will disagree with any reduction in force, so they can get their story that Trump is going against his general's recommendations and we should continue keeping our troops in the ME.

Sorry for the dissertation. Got enthused writing this. I've stated my positions, and why they are what they are, and I think I covered all the positions from the prior posts and the article. Feel free to discuss or counter as you see fit.
 
Yes, I am well aware that you have spent much of your time in Australia. How much I envy you! Australia has long been on my bucket list of places I want to visit, but at my age I imagine it is time to set that dream aside.

I hope I didn’t mislead you with my reference to the Australian tv show. It’s a fictitious story of the internal dealings within the Aussie government, not a reality show. And as I said the portion that includes dealing with America is so insignificant as to have almost no bearing on the storyline. At any rate it touches on how Australian government politicians and bureaucrats get frustrated when America demands they act against Australia’s interest. It’s mostly about secret stuff (thus the name, Secret City. It’s a terrific show, I highly recommend it!) and does not discuss what the general public thinks, mainly because the general public is left in the dark about what’s going on. I just used that show as an example, which I believe is relatively accurate.

And yes, I along with countless others continue to cry wolf when we see actions our government is taking in our name that we believe are dangerous. I, along with countless others see DJT as playing a hazardous game of chicken with the potential fate of humanity at stake. You can expect me to continue to wring my hands, as oststedchi likes to put it. So if it bothers you I would recommend you ignore my postings. I do appreciate that you argue against the message and not the messenger.

I understand that the foreign policy bit is an insignificant angle, the problem is that people who are to stupid or indifferent to pay attention in history or politics class eat this crap up as real. Just like all the pinko actors that hate Trump, the gop, government, law enforcement and so on but have no qualms playing those roles in full gore or disrespect. If your convictions are such that you hate something enough to state thus, why profit from the portrayal of it?

Australia quit “playing along” since Vietnam and they have a fairly strong streak of independence and a conservative lean (love Rita Panahi and her columns) which pretty much negates the need to do what the US tells them to do. After the Queen dies they will break from the commonwealth.

Our allies owe us a lot more than we owe them and if they want to keep playing footsies with people who hate them and their way of life, so be it. But historically speaking appeasement and indifference haven’t been a good strategy and when Iran has nuclear rockets that can reach Europe than it will be to late, what spine they have will evaporate and allies they will no longer be. They’ll just be cowering shells of their previous glory.

They may already be past the point of no return anyway. The biggest problem Europe has is they have to import nearly all their energy, so standing up to tyrants who supply you oil, natural gas and also provide a market for your goods is extremely problematic, especially when you’re already weak internally.

The US and surrounding area (+/- 4 time zones either side of CST) has all the resources we need. What we need to be focused on is ensuring stability in that zone, screw the rest of the world unless they want to fully pay, plus a fee, for our umbrella of protection.

Trump is not going to pull a Gulf of Tonkin deal to get us in a shooting war and all the hand wringing is simply a tactic to give him as little credit as possible for the positive changes he has made. The author of this article and those like him have to continually throw red meat to their single called crowd to keep them enslaved in hate.
 
Oh and about that short range missile launch. It was such an amazing coincidence that it happened the week that China reneged on its trade agreements. The one political position where both parties agreed with Trump and his trade administration that China had negotiated in bad faith and was responsible for the breakdown. You don't think China wanted some distraction on the world stage? Trump is right here. There is nothing to worry about in regards to the short-range missile tests by NK. China wanted a distraction, and the anti-Trump media was more than happy to play this global game of 3-card Monty.
Let us not forget that Bill Clinton allowed Loral Corporation, a big Clinton supporter, to sell its missile technology to China. China, at the time, was seeing every missile it blasted off go haywire almost immediately after launch. That was due to failure of their gyroscopes. Loral sold them the technology to fix this problem. Since then, Chinese missiles have flown without fail and has allowed them to be on the forefront of space and military might. It's reasonable to believe China also gave that technology to NK.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ostatedchi
Let us not forget that Bill Clinton allowed Loral Corporation, a big Clinton supporter, to sell its missile technology to China. China, at the time, was seeing every missile it blasted off go haywire almost immediately after launch. That was due to failure of their gyroscopes. Loral sold them the technology to fix this problem. Since then, Chinese missiles have flown without fail and has allowed them to be on the forefront of space and military might. It's reasonable to believe China also gave that technology to NK.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...clinton-china-controversy-from-1998?_amp=true


Can you imagine if trump did something like this? The media would be banging on the door of the White House with pitch forks.

But now, trump is hurting China to protect American business interests and he is the enemy.
 
Let us not forget that Bill Clinton allowed Loral Corporation, a big Clinton supporter, to sell its missile technology to China. China, at the time, was seeing every missile it blasted off go haywire almost immediately after launch. That was due to failure of their gyroscopes. Loral sold them the technology to fix this problem. Since then, Chinese missiles have flown without fail and has allowed them to be on the forefront of space and military might. It's reasonable to believe China also gave that technology to NK.

This goes back to what I said in my long post above. Clinton was just one of many past presidents who were happy to accept whatever agreements necessary to open up any access to the China population and economy. We turn a blind eye to their adventurism in the China Sea. We turn a blind eye to their human rights violations. We turn a blind eye to their IP theft and counterfeiting. All so we can make (or save) an extra buck on the backs of China's cheap labor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: imprimis
This goes back to what I said in my long post above. Clinton was just one of many past presidents who were happy to accept whatever agreements necessary to open up any access to the China population and economy. We turn a blind eye to their adventurism in the China Sea. We turn a blind eye to their human rights violations. We turn a blind eye to their IP theft and counterfeiting. All so we can make (or save) an extra buck on the backs of China's cheap labor.

Same argument for Dems and neocons about illegals. Total exploitation for their farming and building buddies to enjoy but we get the lecture about the morality of a wall.
 
If the author of the article and most of the so called American journalist that are writing critical articles about Trump had written articles that were half as critical of Obama I might could take them seriously but they didn't. Every article about Obama was written from the standpoint of a madly in love porn fluffer.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT