Question about Conference wrestling…

[TulsaPokie]

I don’t follow wrestling a ton, but I have seen numerous interviews with Coach Smith where he claims OU and Mizzou in the Big XII for wrestling is a good thing. Why exactly is that the case? Why keep them in a conference they didn’t want to be in? I’m not a big fan of even playing in the schools that left in non conference matchups but understand it has to happen some. Seems like OSU and Iowa State threw those two a lifeline when I highly doubt the same would have been reciprocated if it was us leaving for the SEC.

 

[ionel]

I don’t follow wrestling a ton, but I have seen numerous interviews with Coach Smith where he claims OU and Mizzou in the Big XII for wrestling is a good thing. Why exactly is that the case? Why keep them in a conference they didn’t want to be in? I’m not a big fan of even playing in the schools that left in non conference matchups but understand it has to happen some. Seems like OSU and Iowa State threw those two a lifeline when I highly doubt the same would have been reciprocated if it was us leaving for the SEC.

It makes the B12 tournament and conf dual schedule tougher. Look at how much more competitive the tournament is vs half dozen years ago.

 

[TulsaPokie]

It makes the B12 tournament and conf dual schedule tougher. Look at how much more competitive the tournament is vs half dozen years ago.

Has that helped us improve at all?

 

[ionel]

It makes the B12 tournament and conf dual schedule tougher. Look at how much more competitive the tournament is vs half dozen years ago.

Hard to tell for sure yet. I'd say look at how close V was already to Mauller, Plott, Young until the injury etc. Thats going to help going into NCAA versus wrestling a cake walk schedule.

 

[JAY45]

I don’t follow wrestling a ton, but I have seen numerous interviews with Coach Smith where he claims OU and Mizzou in the Big XII for wrestling is a good thing. Why exactly is that the case? Why keep them in a conference they didn’t want to be in? I’m not a big fan of even playing in the schools that left in non conference matchups but understand it has to happen some. Seems like OSU and Iowa State threw those two a lifeline when I highly doubt the same would have been reciprocated if it was us leaving for the SEC.

OSU and the Big 12 are in an arms race with the B1G.

Fresno State (Big 12 affiliate) folded their Program, and was replaced by…Cal Baptist (a D2 School).

People barely show up for duals these days…one dual they do show up for is Bedlam (5,000 - 6,000…Penn State & Iowa draw 16,000 - 18,000).

OSU isn’t so good at this point that they can afford a weak conference.

The Big 12 IS improving. They aren’t named schools that you are used to hearing…they are becoming common names in the wrestling world.

OU & Missouri are both good and necessary for OSU and the Big 12.

 

[skylinepoke]

It makes the B12 tournament and conf dual schedule tougher. Look at how much more competitive the tournament is vs half dozen years ago.

I was watching the semis last night and thought the same thing. The first few years after adding the new programs, they were pathetic. Now, most of those teams have one or more high quality wrestlers. There will be some good bouts tonight with wrestlers that will be at the top in a couple of weeks.

 

[Dobsie]

Has that helped us improve at all?

The Big 10 has 14 schools that wrestle. Every school wrestled until UCLA, and USC were added.

The conference tournament sets those schools up to do better at Nationals.

You have to have 6 schools for NCAA Conference wrestling to be recognized. Before we added the affiliate members we were close to losing that status.

The only actual Big XII schools with wrestling are

Iowa State
Oklahoma State
West Virginia (this one just isn’t very good at the moment)

We need more teams, and need better teams for the competition to get ready for Nationals.

 

[Okie_Pat]

Well there are 4 new schools coming in. Perhaps 2/4 will add wrestling

 

[alex1fly]

I don’t follow wrestling a ton, but I have seen numerous interviews with Coach Smith where he claims OU and Mizzou in the Big XII for wrestling is a good thing. Why exactly is that the case? Why keep them in a conference they didn’t want to be in? I’m not a big fan of even playing in the schools that left in non conference matchups but understand it has to happen some. Seems like OSU and Iowa State threw those two a lifeline when I highly doubt the same would have been reciprocated if it was us leaving for the SEC.

Leaving the Big 12 was a decision made by ADs based on football money. No good reason not to have them in the Big 12 for wrestling other than sour grapes.

 

[Pokewood]

Leaving the Big 12 was a decision made by ADs based on football money. No good reason not to have them in the Big 12 for wrestling other than sour grapes.

I am good with sour grapes. They did their best to **** us over and did it in a deceitful and duplicitous manner. If we bailout their wrestling program we are stupid, cowardly pussies. The future of wrestling and our place in it does not depend on UTN wrestling and if it does we are truly ****ed.

 

[Dobsie]

I am good with sour grapes. They did their best to **** us over and did it in a deceitful and duplicitous manner. If we bailout their wrestling program we are stupid, cowardly pussies. The future of wrestling and our place in it does not depend on UTN wrestling and if it does we are truly ****ed.

We have 3 Big XII teams that actually have Wrestling.

It’s not hard to understand.

You need 6 D1 teams to have an actual conference.

We have to have a bunch of affiliates to stay an actual conference.

Losing Nebraska, and Missouri almost cost us from having Conference wrestling.

Otherwise you better hope Kansas, and Kansas State bring back their programs.

 

[alex1fly]

We have 3 Big XII teams that actually have Wrestling.

It’s not hard to understand.

You need 6 D1 teams to have an actual conference.

We have to have a bunch of affiliates to stay an actual conference.

Losing Nebraska, and Missouri almost cost us from having Conference wrestling.

Otherwise you better hope Kansas, and Kansas State bring back their programs.

You get it. Who cares if they want to have football in one conference and wrestling in another.

If we lost conference wrestling we’d be having to schedule every dual individually.

 

[TulsaPokie]

We have 3 Big XII teams that actually have Wrestling.

It’s not hard to understand.

You need 6 D1 teams to have an actual conference.

We have to have a bunch of affiliates to stay an actual conference.

Losing Nebraska, and Missouri almost cost us from having Conference wrestling.

Otherwise you better hope Kansas, and Kansas State bring back their programs.

So let them go and bring in another couple of affiliates…

 

[Dobsie]

So let them go and bring in another couple of affiliates…

Who is as good as Missouri, and Oklahoma that is available to join?

 

[Pokewood]

So let them go and bring in another couple of affiliates…

Just like we been doing. To hell with them. If this situation was reversed they would let us burn. They proved that with their stealth moves to screw the conference. They didn’t give a shit if their efforts left us in the. Mountain West!

 

[Pokewood]

Who is as good as Missouri, and Oklahoma that is available to join?

Apparently alot of the big 12 schools still wrestling tonight.

 

[TulsaPokie]

Who is as good as Missouri, and Oklahoma that is available to join?

As good as Mizzou..probably not many. As good as OU…just about 75 percent of the teams out there. You wann wrestler them? Schedule them as non conference duals. Bring in a couple UALR and some other crap teams to replace them.

 

[Dobsie]

As good as Mizzou..probably not many. As good as OU…just about 75 percent of the teams out there. You wann wrestler them? Schedule them as non conference duals. Bring in a couple UALR and some other crap teams to replace them.

The Big XII current members outside of OSU have turned down UALR in the past based of they don’t want anymore members with OSU ties when it comes to Coaches.

It’s why UALR went to the PAC.

 

[JAY45]

So let them go and bring in another couple of affiliates…

This argument feels like emotion overriding intellect.

Do you see yourself attending an OSU vs. Cal Baptist Dual? UALR?

Again, Bedlam is one of OSU’s 2 biggest duals attendance wise. Not to mention, OSU almost always wins and it’s a great source of embarrassment for OU.

What’s the case for OSU facing lesser and lesser competition being good for OSU?

If the 4 corner schools join the Big 12, you add another marquee program, which is great. Only 1 of those schools has a program.

Anyone who is more than a casual observer can see the B1G is boat racing the Big 12 right now. They have massive advantages in recruiting because prospects know they will be showcased. Weakening the conference, while it might feel good in the short term, is bad for OSU. And furthermore, OU fans would hardly notice.

 

[NCcowboy]

This argument feels like emotion overriding intellect.

Do you see yourself attending an OSU vs. Cal Baptist Dual? UALR?

Again, Bedlam is one of OSU’s 2 biggest duals attendance wise. Not to mention, OSU almost always wins and it’s a great source of embarrassment for OU.

What’s the case for OSU facing lesser and lesser competition being good for OSU?

If the 4 corner schools join the Big 12, you add another marquee program, which is great. Only 1 of those schools has a program.

Anyone who is more than a casual observer can see the B1G is boat racing the Big 12 right now. They have massive advantages in recruiting because prospects know they will be showcased. Weakening the conference, while it might feel good in the short term, is bad for OSU. And furthermore, OU fans would hardly notice.

I think we could be better by forming a combined wrestling conference with ACC. They only have 6 teams- NC State, Pitt, and VA tech are solid teams. NC and UVA have some good wrestlers and Duke is down this year, but usually has some good individuals.

Three of those programs obviously have OSU ties, but it would be better for both conferences given that not all teams in either wrestle.

 

[chasepollard]

I think we could be better by forming a combined wrestling conference with ACC. They only have 6 teams- NC State, Pitt, and VA tech are solid teams. NC and UVA have some good wrestlers and Duke is down this year, but usually has some good individuals.

Three of those programs obviously have OSU ties, but it would be better for both conferences given that not all teams in either wrestle.

@JAY45 i was typing something similar to this.

I’m not sure what can be done, but the Big tin has to be thwarted.

 

[JAY45]

I think we could be better by forming a combined wrestling conference with ACC. They only have 6 teams- NC State, Pitt, and VA tech are solid teams. NC and UVA have some good wrestlers and Duke is down this year, but usually has some good individuals.

Three of those programs obviously have OSU ties, but it would be better for both conferences given that not all teams in either wrestle.

It’s a great idea. How feasible do you think?

 

[JAY45]

One potential challenge with the ACC idea…OSU already struggles to get any of them to come to Stillwater for duals, how would that affect their willingness to wrestle OSU every year. It seems like their view would be, the path to the tournament and seeding would be much more difficult. Not to mention, consolidation of a healthy conference doesn’t seem like it would be a net positive.

 

[Wrassler17]

I've posted before that OU offers us basically nothing in terms wrestling. If they dropped the program it wouldn't affect OK HS wrestling or the conference strength. In fact it would probably only help because we'd get guys like Ware & Picklo.

That was before NIL. Now there's chatter they have transfers on 100% NIL $, including Buchanan. If that's true then they are a threat. If we don't wake up and change the way we operate then we'll find that out.

 

[NCcowboy]

One potential challenge with the ACC idea…OSU already struggles to get any of them to come to Stillwater for duals, how would that affect their willingness to wrestle OSU every year. It seems like their view would be, the path to the tournament and seeding would be much more difficult. Not to mention, consolidation of a healthy conference doesn’t seem like it would be a net positive.

I think ACC is in a similar position as the BigXII before wrestling expanded. I would have to check again, but most weights had 3 or 4 bids with 125 having 2. So combining conferences puts us closer to B1G. They have two former champs in Mekai Lewis (VA Tech) and Austin O’Connor (UNC) and Hidley (NC State) who I think was a finalist last year.

I have no idea if there would be interest from coaches or AD, but would be competitive and prepare both better for nationals in my opinion.

 

[chasepollard]

I say do away with conferences for Wrestling in total.

Have two or three tourneys throughout the year that build a resume for Wrestlers to receive a bid to March Matness.

Make some scheduling requirements on duals (maybe even National Duals) and quality of schedule being a deciding variable.

I don't know? It would be cool to take the teeth out of the BIG by just doing away with them all together.

 

[NCcowboy]

I say do away with conferences for Wrestling in total.

Have two or three tourneys throughout the year that build a resume for Wrestlers to receive a bid to March Matness.

Make some scheduling requirements on duals (maybe even National Duals) and quality of schedule being a deciding variable.

I don't know? It would be cool to take the teeth out of the BIG by just doing away with them all together.

I can see a reason for this, but also think there is some merit for college wrestlers being able the say they are a conference champion, placer,... Combining conferences obviously makes this harder, but still gives some who will never be AA something to remember from their days competing. With time, I suppose all the athletes could adjust if that is the sport, but would be a transition period.

 

[alex1fly]

Seems silly to complain about OSU having weak competition and then complain again when solid teams join the conference as affiliates. Missouri and OU make a lot of sense given the geography. OU looked better this year than it has in quite a while. We could take some cues from their use of the transfer portal, too.

 

[alex1fly]

I say do away with conferences for Wrestling in total.

Have two or three tourneys throughout the year that build a resume for Wrestlers to receive a bid to March Matness.

Make some scheduling requirements on duals (maybe even National Duals) and quality of schedule being a deciding variable.

I don't know? It would be cool to take the teeth out of the BIG by just doing away with them all together.

BTW "March Matness" is a genius name for the post-season! What a missed opportunity!

 

[Okie_Pat]

13 teams in the big 12 right now, with 6 of those teams being quality programs IMO. Those teams are OSU, MIZZ, ISU, UNI, OU, SDSU. Northern CO and NDSU seem to be improving so you can put them on the fringe. WY, Utah Valley and WV are hit and miss, but don't appear to have a the same trajectory as N. CO and NDSU. Air Force and Cal Bap aren't good.

My hope has always been that at some point Kansas brings back a DI program and Texas gets a DI team. That would be adding two more teams. If any of the 4 new schools moving to the big12 added a program, say 2 of the 4 schools the big12 could move Cal Bap and Utah Valley to the Pac12 and the big12 conference would have 15 teams. We would be removing 2 programs from the conference that aren't good in Cal Bap and Utah Valley for possibly programs like BYU or Cinnci. Just being creative here, but combing conferences isn't the way to go because of scheduling and travel.

 

[NCcowboy]

13 teams in the big 12 right now, with 6 of those teams being quality programs IMO. Those teams are OSU, MIZZ, ISU, UNI, OU, SDSU. Northern CO and NDSU seem to be improving so you can put them on the fringe. WY, Utah Valley and WV are hit and miss, but don't appear to have a the same trajectory as N. CO and NDSU. Air Force and Cal Bap aren't good.

My hope has always been that at some point Kansas brings back a DI program and Texas gets a DI team. That would be adding two more teams. If any of the 4 new schools moving to the big12 added a program, say 2 of the 4 schools the big12 could move Cal Bap and Utah Valley to the Pac12 and the big12 conference would have 15 teams. We would be removing 2 programs from the conference that aren't good in Cal Bap and Utah Valley for possibly programs like BYU or Cinnci. Just being creative here, but combing conferences isn't the way to go because of scheduling and travel.

BYU had a program and dropped it- this was a long time ago, but doesn’t seem like they would add back.

And why would you believe a school just starting a program (any of the 4 new Big XII teams) would be better than Cal Baptist or Utah Valley?

I don’t know the distances, but traveling to Utah would not be better than NC? One trip and you get WVU, Pitt, UVA, and Va Tech and the NC schools are easy to combine from a travel stand point.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

BYU had a program and dropped it- this was a long time ago, but doesn’t seem like they would add back.

And why would you believe a school just starting a program (any of the 4 new Big XII teams) would be better than Cal Baptist or Utah Valley?

I don’t know the distances, but traveling to Utah would not be better than NC? One trip and you get WVU, Pitt, UVA, and Va Tech and the NC schools are easy to combine from a travel stand point.

Given it's location and money infusion from the Big 12, the right hire at Cincinnati could have them competitive in short order.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

I want OU to stay in the conference and be better than they have been same as us. Seems rather notable that they were top 5 when we were winning titles. I want OSU to be the best and OU, WVU and ISU to be top 15 at least. More fun duals, more fun conference tournament, iron sharpens iron.

 

[chasepollard]

I can see a reason for this, but also think there is some merit for college wrestlers being able the say they are a conference champion, placer,... Combining conferences obviously makes this harder, but still gives some who will never be AA something to remember from their days competing. With time, I suppose all the athletes could adjust if that is the sport, but would be a transition period.

They can simply replace conference placer with reno, scuffle, etc. placer. There could be lots of pride saying "Im a two-time Reno TOC placer."

NCAA invites will run off of a well-calculated point system with auto-bids for placing at certain tourneys.

With every big change, there is transition.

 

[chasepollard]

BTW "March Matness" is a genius name for the post-season! What a missed opportunity!

I've been calling it that for over a decade. I am sure I heard it from somebody else, but that's what I call it.

 

[OSUMatFan]

When the tournament was in St. Louis, they used the term "Arch Matness". I thought that was cute.