NS State attack’s Higher Ed (again)

[brtinla]

This is ALL the Republicans fault. They have cut taxes and even doubled down by cutting taxes in the teeth of a recession. Our States two biggest assets are OU and OSU. Especially since fossil fuels are on a slow exit world wide.

Those assets are being downgraded to the point OSU is now eating into it's endowment for day to day operations. For this state to have a future, it MUST have a robust University system that does great research and attracts and retains high quality companies and students. We have to replace Oil and Gas which is on a slow fade.

Of course, no state that pays it's teachers on the primary and secondary level at 50th in the country is going to attract new business. Forget Amazon bailing us out. Jeff Bazos does not want to explain to people living in a great state with first class services to go to the shitiest state in the country.

Reagan raised taxes in California while Governor during a downturn to save education. He could not win an election in Oklahoma today.

I would like everyone complaining about the situation to pledge to vote for a democrat in the house and senate on the state level. See what changes.

 

[TPOKE]

You’re flat out wrong. Certainly there have been dumb Democrats but, without any question—none—it’s been since the Republican takeover of the OK legislature about 10 years ago and their mindless, idiotic obsession with tax cuts and tax giveaways to the oil industry (primarily although not exclusively) that have put us in this mess, compounded by the SQ years ago that (intentionally) made it virtually impossible ever to raise taxes.

I agree on the point of the oil industry. I posted several months ago how North Dakota had an 11% production tax and Oklahoma had a 1%. That being said, no one can say with certainty that tuition still wouldn't be raised.
I for one am for tax cuts. Those SOBs have enough money and need to learn how to use it. Too many social programs. People need to get to work and pay taxes.

 

[PervisEllison]

They? Who is that? If you mean the people of OK brought a petition forward and obtained the necessary signatures to get it on the ballot then yes it is "they". State Question 640 is a wonderful example of the law of unintended consequences. The minority can hold up almost any tax bill and have since the passage of 640.

Yes, it was an entirely organic movement that sprang forth from the citizens who were strangely compelled to demand its place on the ballot from out of nowhere.

 

[Emmo496]

How exactly are these funds used at both state schools?

Can’t speak for OU but at OSU the funds are used for numerous studies on the efficacy of super heated chocolate and its effects on alumni.

 

[brtinla]

I for one am for tax cuts. Those SOBs have enough money and need to learn how to use it. Too many social programs. People need to get to work and pay taxes.

Enough money? The budget needs to increase every year to keep up with inflation and population growth. Who are these SOB's you speak of? I guess that would be me. The cuts have hit education and mental health hard. The heartbreaking things that are taking place in the field of mental health are horrific.

Tax cuts on the state level do not grow the economy, they retard it due to the average propensity to save among high/middle income tax payers. Tax increases grow the economy and also fund basic services. You know basic services don't you? Your parent's valued it but their grandkids won't get it?

 

[OSU86]

Yes, it was an entirely organic movement that sprang forth from the citizens who were strangely compelled to demand its place on the ballot from out of nowhere.

If that makes you feel better fine but it was passed by a vote of the people not a vote of the legislature.

 

[dvpoke25]

You’re flat out wrong. Certainly there have been dumb Democrats but, without any question—none—it’s been since the Republican takeover of the OK legislature about 10 years ago and their mindless, idiotic obsession with tax cuts and tax giveaways to the oil industry (primarily although not exclusively) that have put us in this mess, compounded by the SQ years ago that (intentionally) made it virtually impossible ever to raise taxes.

I agree on the point of the oil industry. I posted several months ago how North Dakota had an 11% production tax and Oklahoma had a 1%. That being said, no one can say with certainty that tuition still wouldn't be raised.
I for one am for tax cuts. Those SOBs have enough money and need to learn how to use it. Too many social programs. People need to get to work and pay taxes.

North Dakota has roughly 1/3 the number of rigs running as oklahoma does right now too. I’m not saying the tax rate on oklahoma oil and gas should stay the same but you are competing with other states to have your wells drilled. The economic activity that is generated from those rigs being in Oklahoma is massive and is part of the reason the tax structure needs to help keep oklahoma oil and gas competitive. I’m not certain if this is true or maybe I misunderstood the stat but I’m pretty sure I had read somewhere that the Oklahoma taxes on oil and gas were in line with the average of the states surrounding us.

I’d like to see them use a higher state income tax. If SALT is going to remain as a deduction from federal tax then I don’t mind paying a higher state income tax.

 

[brtinla]

Saying we need to keep the tax structure the same to help oil and gas is like saying we need to keep the Horse and buggy industry strong at the turn of the century.

We need to adapt to a carbon free energy world. Regardless of your opinion on global warming, the list of cities that will ban the sale of internal combustion engines in the 2020's is growing. Oklahoma will become a "ghost state" unless it adapts and looks to the future. That starts with massive investments, not cuts, in education at all levels. That can be fueled with taxing the dying oil industry at levels every other state does.

 

[brtinla]

"you are competing with other states to have your wells drilled"


dvpoke25 you are a ****ing liar. That is absolute bullshit and you know it.

 

[dnhall]

They’re making money in the Dakotas at 11% or they wouldn’t be there. They’ve bought our legislature and governor to ensure their profit is greater here at the expense of school children that can’t buy politicians!

Raise it to the average which I believe was 7% and they’ll make 4% more than in the Dakotas and we can fund education and services for our tax payers. Limit their greed and legislative cowardice and take care of the education of our children!

 

[dvpoke25]

"you are competing with other states to have your wells drilled"


dvpoke25 you are a ****ing liar. That is absolute bullshit and you know it.

Wow. Not sure what prompted this but pretty childish. Not sure how it is a lie either. Investment is driven by rate of return, and moving rigs to where you can generate the best return is simple. The fact that after the collapse of the oil price, Oklahoma rigs are only outnumbered by Texas proves that theory out.

I’m not even arguing that oil and gas should be exempt from the debate on how we can better fund our schools. I think they should play a part. I just think that the entire tax structure as a whole should be examined instead of continuously going back to the one industry which is creating economic opportunity in our state. It’s more complicated than just saying, tax them like North Dakota.

 

[Pancreek1]

I have personally asked the CEO of 8 different companies active in E&P in Oklahoma the following question:

"Have you ever or would you ever make a capex drilling decision based on the gross production tax rate?"

Every one said no, that would never come into a drilling decision.

There is only one vocal opponent to raising the gross production tax and that is the major shareholder of Continental.

Let's think about that for a second. Aside from George Kaiser (who owns and controls 100% of his budget and is a HUGE proponent of RAISING the gross production tax) and Continental, the balance of any tax increase (Devon for example) would be paid for by Wall Street, not by Oklahomans.

So its paid for by out of State investors, drilling will go on unabated regardless of the tax rate and the only reason the Legislature won't do anything about it is a few mindless individuals signed "a pledge" not to raise taxes. Meanwhile basic services and primary education suffers

THAT is why people are pissed off. Anyone supporting the legislature in this (regardless of politics) is crazy. I'm Republican and I am disgusted.

 

[dvpoke25]

I have personally asked the CEO of 8 different companies active in E&P in Oklahoma the following question:

"Have you ever or would you ever make a capex drilling decision based on the gross production tax rate?"

Every one said no, that would never come into a drilling decision.

There is only one vocal opponent to raising the gross production tax and that is the major shareholder of Continental.

Let's think about that for a second. Aside from George Kaiser (who owns and controls 100% of his budget and is a HUGE proponent of RAISING the gross production tax) and Continental, the balance of any tax increase (Devon for example) would be paid for by Wall Street, not by Oklahomans.

So its paid for by out of State investors, drilling will go on unabated regardless of the tax rate and the only reason the Legislature won't do anything about it is a few mindless individuals signed "a pledge" not to raise taxes. Meanwhile basic services and primary education suffers

THAT is why people are pissed off. Anyone supporting the legislature in this (regardless of politics) is crazy. I'm Republican and I am disgusted.

Just curious, which companies? In general, the companies who are proponents of that are not the companies keeping oklahoma unemployment low. They generally are smaller oil and gas companies operating traditional wells and are already taxed at the full rate. I can say with certainty that the major companies investing billions in capex don’t share that sentiment.

Before someone tries to say I’m saying something I’m not, im not saying investment would dry up just because they raise gpt. I’m saying there would be fewer wells drilled here and there is potential for a greater amount of a companies capex to be concentrated in other plays where they may be able to easily fund future drilling programs.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Don’t the casinos have a sweet gig too?

No discussion on secondary education funding should take place without a discussion on consolidation. If you have to outsource basic math to the votech, and graduate 12-18, you’re part of the problem too. We have the most inefficient delivery system for education in the country. Fix that and we end up with more teachers, not less, and they’re all paid better, because you’ve massively cut budget killing overhead.

But, but, we love our school...

 

[Headhunter]

You have an education system that is based on a model that is 120 years old. It was developed before people had a car or a phone or a radio.

Until this state decides to do a complete restructure and bring everything into the 21st century then the education and potential economic growth of this state are going lag behind. Given the geographic location of Oklahoma and natural resources of this state it should be an economic powerhouse.

 

[dnhall]

It can all be solved by electing adults to the legislature that understand a couple of fundamental truths!

1. You must pay for what you want and as costs increase you have to meet that added cost or lose services to that inflation.

2. Tax dollars are supposed to be used to pay for state services and infrastructure for ALL CITIZENS not to enrich the bottom line of businesses with the wherewithal and lobbyists to buy politicians and their votes!

 

[JonnyVito]

"you are competing with other states to have your wells drilled"


dvpoke25 you are a ****ing liar. That is absolute bullshit and you know it.

@Jeff J.

Jeff can this thread be moved to the politics board I am so over politics being spewed into my sports habit... Plus here is Brtinla bashing and name calling again. I am so over all this BS political non sense.

 

[Pancreek1]

Just curious, which companies? In general, the companies who are proponents of that are not the companies keeping oklahoma unemployment low. They generally are smaller oil and gas companies operating traditional wells and are already taxed at the full rate. I can say with certainty that the major companies investing billions in capex don’t share that sentiment.

Before someone tries to say I’m saying something I’m not, im not saying investment would dry up just because they raise gpt. I’m saying there would be fewer wells drilled here and there is potential for a greater amount of a companies capex to be concentrated in other plays where they may be able to easily fund future drilling programs.

Not buying it dvpoke25. PM me and I will tell you specifically who I've talked to. Capex decisions can only be impacted by GPT on the most marginal of all wells that nobody would want to drill anyway.

 

[OSU86]

@Jeff J.

Jeff can this thread be moved to the politics board I am so over politics being spewed into my sports habit... Plus here is Brtinla bashing and name calling again. I am so over all this BS political non sense.

If you place him on ignore you have no idea he even posts. Until you posted this I had forgotten all about him.

 

[Jeff J.]

@Jeff J.

Jeff can this thread be moved to the politics board I am so over politics being spewed into my sports habit... Plus here is Brtinla bashing and name calling again. I am so over all this BS political non sense.

Yessir, sorry it took as long as it did.

 

[knoblock]

Not buying it dvpoke25. PM me and I will tell you specifically who I've talked to. Capex decisions can only be impacted by GPT on the most marginal of all wells that nobody would want to drill anyway.

Agree Pancreek1. Linking a good article about this written by Mickey Thompson, former OIPA leader. Totally agree with Mickey.
https://okobserver.org/putting-states-future-ahead-of-self-interest/