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NS State attack’s Higher Ed (again)

That's small, contextually.

In June Oklahoma State reported that its "tuition and mandatory fees are among the lowest in the BIGXII" and are "well below the national average" for land-grant institutions.

Half of OSU graduates have student loan debt, and of those that do, the average debt is $24,095.


So....why exactly is any of this an "embarrassment?"

Use quantitative words.

As a baseline (to the information above), the OSU budget is 1.3 Billion a year. It received 183.7 million this past year in state appropriated funds.

If you assume OSUs cut represents 50%, that's 8.5 million. If you assume you're working with 30,000 students system-wide (OSUs website puts it at 35k), then spread evenly, that's an increase of $283. That's before taking into account that Hargis said they are awarding more scholarship funds in the face of an increase in student costs.
 
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How exactly are these funds used at both state schools?
Hard For me to say, but I think primarily salary. When I graduated in 1980 the state paid in excess of 80% of the cost of an in state BS. With expected cuts next year it will be about 10% I believe, maybe slightly less than that.
 
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Hard For me to say, but I think primarily salary. When I graduated in 1980 the state paid in excess of 80% of the cost of an in state BS. With expected cuts next year it will be about 10% I believe, maybe slightly less than that.

I've edited my initial post to include more info.
 
I remember when my tuition and books for 1 semester was less than $2,000. I think it was around $1,700. I think it was $32 an hour or something like that....I'm sure there are others who remember.
 
Who was the jackass senator that nixed the deal to let Indian tribes to use dice and marbles for the craps and roulette games?

They have those games but have to use cards which makes this moron's objection on moral grounds pathetic. It would of raised 25 million a year for teacher salary increases. We treat our teachers like dogs and our national rank in secondary education is a complete embarrassment.

I will contribute to his opponent in the primary and if that doesn't work I'll donate to his democrat opponent.
 
An additional $17,000,000.00 cut to budget in this FY. Will almost entirely come from OSU and OU budgets.

Hope everyone on this board that can vote in Oklahoma is paying close attention. If you are good with all this then congrats to you.
The Oklahoma Legislature is the only body that can make the Texas legislature seem like the pinnacle of good government.
 
Some kids pay for their own school.
And own debt into their 30's that a previous generation would have thought impossible.

My question is how did the state legislature re-direct all these funds over the past 20-30 years? Surely revenues per capita are higher than in the 80's.
 
I would like to see an audit of all state agencies, starting with education.
That’s a smokescreen idea put forth by the right wing as a diversionary tactic to pull peoples’ attention away from the fact that our state legislature has, for years, given endless tax giveaways to the oil and gas industry in the state while cutting, cutting, and cutting again public schools and higher education and roads and bridges and mental health programs and....

Fine, you want an audit, you can pay for it, but I’ll bet you money the amount of waste uncovered by those audits of every state agency would be very small and may not even be enough to pay for the audits themselves.

That idea is a delaying tactic and a smokescreen to divert attention from the real problem—dumb-as-s*** legislators who signed idiotic pledges to Grover Norquist never to raise taxes and who think a tax cut is the solution to every problem. Taken as a group, we have the dumbest effing legislature with the most pathetic leadership (I’m looking at you, House of Representatives) in the country—and that’s saying something given how bad several other state’s legislatures are.
 
That’s a smokescreen idea put forth by the right wing as a diversionary tactic to pull peoples’ attention away from the fact that our state legislature has, for years, given endless tax giveaways to the oil and gas industry in the state while cutting, cutting, and cutting again public schools and higher education and roads and bridges and mental health programs and....

Fine, you want an audit, you can pay for it, but I’ll bet you money the amount of waste uncovered by those audits of every state agency would be very small and may not even be enough to pay for the audits themselves.

That idea is a delaying tactic and a smokescreen to divert attention from the real problem—dumb-as-s*** legislators who signed idiotic pledges to Grover Norquist never to raise taxes and who think a tax cut is the solution to every problem. Taken as a group, we have the dumbest effing legislature with the most pathetic leadership (I’m looking at you, House of Representatives) in the country—and that’s saying something given how bad several other state’s legislatures are.
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE FOLKS IN THE BACK
 
I would like to see an audit of all state agencies, starting with education.

I can save you the time and money - as has often been the case when the Legislature gets offended by accusations that it is underfunding a certain area of state government, an audit would simply confirm, in stark terms, that we are underfunding education, as would be the case with almost every area of state government.

This is exactly what happened when these guys got butthurt because the Department of Corrections had to keep coming back for supplemental funding every year because the only thing we do well is lock people up in cages at a third world rate. The audit they requested simply confirmed we don't adequately fund the system.
 
My question is how did the state legislature re-direct all these funds over the past 20-30 years? Surely revenues per capita are higher than in the 80's.

The Legislature voluntarily reduced the state's two largest revenue sources - income tax and gross production tax.

They further eroded their ability to direct remaining funding to areas of need by creating huge off the top earmarks for a variety of purposes. I will say that the transportation one has been effective in making our roads and bridges less of a national embarrassment.

They also made it nearly impossible to take corrective action in the event of a revenue disaster by passing a ballot proposal that requires 75 percent approval of the Legislature to raise taxes.

Around 2009 it should have been clear that this was leading us to calamity, but to delay accountability, we at this time began to rely on various sources of one time funding to fill the revenue hole - federal stimulus dollars, the rainy day fund, and an ongoing shell game using agency revolving funds.

Over this period, state agencies saw their budgets reduced, reduced and reduced until some had lost upwards of a third of their employees, in order to allow the Legislature to approve balanced budgets.

Now we have arrived at the point where there are simply no gimmicks left, and faced with hard decisions, the Legislature has simply proven that it has failed to govern, failed to competently manage the state's finances, and lacks the ability to fix the problem. What you are seeing at the Capitol right now is total system failure.

*edit - I completely forgot to note the hundreds of millions in tax credits we adopted over this period, most without adequate oversight to prove that the Legislature was actually getting a return on its investment.
 
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They also made it nearly impossible to take corrective action in the event of a revenue disaster by passing a ballot proposal that requires 75 percent approval of the Legislature to raise taxes.

That is turning out to be one of the dumber things this state has ever done. You couldn't get 75 percent of our legislature to agree the sky is blue.
 
The Oklahoma legislature is a total embarrassment. It's even worse for public schools. Surprised they are operating at all.
It's not conservative, it's insane. Wyoming is a very conservative state yet they provide a decent wage to teachers.
 
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How many of you complaining voted for Republicans in the state level?
 
I was complaining about the State Legislature last week to a very old, VERY well respected citizen who said something to me so serious, yet so funny in a self deprecating way, that I cracked up. He said

"Some day you will wake up and realize that our State Legislature does a GREAT job of representing their constituency"

Visions of trailer park Gooners immediately filled my head. Ha Ha
 
We treat our teachers like dogs and our national rank in secondary education is a complete embarrassment.

I will contribute to his opponent in the primary and if that doesn't work I'll donate to his democrat opponent.

Who are you and what have you done with Head?

BRING HIM BACK.

NOW.
 
Try $12 per credit hour and another $300 for books. Wow. I am getting old
 
@CBradSmith I understand it may not seem material in the big picture, but SURELY you aren't defending our State Legislature?

I'm commenting on the affordability of the product against the value it represents to the individual.

And I'm placing that against the alternatives that are out there.

To come to a place where I honestly don't understand where the ugly attitudes are coming from if one has an appreciation for the bigger picture.

I'm challenging you and others to quantify why you are describing modest budget cuts are the downfall of civilization.
 
@CBradSmith I understand it may not seem material in the big picture, but SURELY you aren't defending our State Legislature?

Now that I've read the thread, I see that this thread is not necessarily about the modest cutting of OSUs budget against the backdrop of the overall affordability and value of the product in as much it's a chance to bitch about the legislature.

Thanks for steering me in the right direction.

This website comes standard equipped with a lively 24/7 board for lengthy vent sessions.
 
not sure of your definition but OSU and the OSU A&M System are audited once a year by external auditors.

Financial audits aren't directed toward fraud or waste. I graduated with a B.S degree in 1979 and a Masters in 1980. My total cost including tuition, fees, books, room & board and other expenses was less then $10,000 for five years. I was able to fund that through summer jobs, savings etc. and graduated with no debt as did the majority of my friends. The cost of the same five year plan is now estimated at between $100,000 & $125,000.

Where is all that money going? Have we seen a visible increase in the quality of the education? The Business School in general and Accounting Department specifically were ranked way higher nationally when I attended then they are now. To simply say that "tuition and mandatory fees are among the lowest in the BIGXII" and are "well below the national average" for land-grant institutions doesn't address the bigger issues of the staggering increase in the cost of higher education and student loan debt nationally.
 
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The Legislature voluntarily reduced the state's two largest revenue sources - income tax and gross production tax.

They also made it nearly impossible to take corrective action in the event of a revenue disaster by passing a ballot proposal that requires 75 percent approval of the Legislature to raise taxes.

They? Who is that? If you mean the people of OK brought a petition forward and obtained the necessary signatures to get it on the ballot then yes it is "they". State Question 640 is a wonderful example of the law of unintended consequences. The minority can hold up almost any tax bill and have since the passage of 640.
 
I'm commenting on the affordability of the product against the value it represents to the individual.

And I'm placing that against the alternatives that are out there.

To come to a place where I honestly don't understand where the ugly attitudes are coming from if one has an appreciation for the bigger picture.

I'm challenging you and others to quantify why you are describing modest budget cuts are the downfall of civilization.

I think there is confusion in this thread. Nobody is raising an uproar over higher education budget cuts. It is the overall state budget and the legislatures literal inability to do the right thing in terms of tax increases to properly fund our most basic services and get our primary education out of the cellar. OU and OSU have done a GREAT job (no thanks to the legislature) of wiening themselves off of the State Teat (inverting the % paid by government over the last 25 years). Now it is the Legislature's RESPONSIBILITY to bring us at least into the 1980's in Primary education.
 
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How many of you complaining voted for Republicans in the state level?
Wouldn't make a difference. You're crazy to think this is isolated to Republican controlled states. Some day you'll learn not to trust either side.
 
I'm commenting on the affordability of the product against the value it represents to the individual.

And I'm placing that against the alternatives that are out there.

To come to a place where I honestly don't understand where the ugly attitudes are coming from if one has an appreciation for the bigger picture.

I'm challenging you and others to quantify why you are describing modest budget cuts are the downfall of civilization.

It’s the largest cuts to education in all 50 states since the recession EIGHT YEARS AGO and continued for the entirety of that time since the Republicans gained control of state government!

It should be embarrassing to fail Oklahoma’s children to this degree monetarily and pit for-profit business and corporate welfare against students and their education!
 
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Wouldn't make a difference. You're crazy to think this is isolated to Republican controlled states. Some day you'll learn not to trust either side.
You’re flat out wrong. Certainly there have been dumb Democrats but, without any question—none—it’s been since the Republican takeover of the OK legislature about 10 years ago and their mindless, idiotic obsession with tax cuts and tax giveaways to the oil industry (primarily although not exclusively) that have put us in this mess, compounded by the SQ years ago that (intentionally) made it virtually impossible ever to raise taxes.
 
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It’s the largest cuts to education in all 50 states since the recession EIGHT YEARS AGO and continued for the entirety of that time since the Republicans gained control of state government!

It should be embarrassing to fail Oklahoma’s children to this degree monetarily and pit for-profit business and corporate welfare against students and their education!

@Pancreek1 It's this magnificence that brings on my confusion.
 
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