It’s A Disaster. Trump Started It. Biden Is Doubling Down.

[Ponca Dan]

The soft fascism of government induced industrial policy. Fails every time yet politicians always think it won’t fail under their careful leadership. And we keep voting for these dopes because we believe their promises. Maybe we’re the dopes.

Biden's 'economic plan' is industrial policy that will be terrible for workers and consumers

The Democratic president is supercharging former President Donald Trump's failed approach to domestic manufacturing.

reason.com

 

[2012Bearcat]

The soft fascism of government induced industrial policy. Fails every time yet politicians always think it won’t fail under their careful leadership. And we keep voting for these dopes because we believe their promises. Maybe we’re the dopes.

Biden's 'economic plan' is industrial policy that will be terrible for workers and consumers

The Democratic president is supercharging former President Donald Trump's failed approach to domestic manufacturing.

reason.com

In all fairness some of us vote, you don't.

Manufacturing will never come back to this country. Democrats have purposely destroyed the US labor market with their employment mandates, regulations and upside down and insane social policies.

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

In all fairness some of us vote, you don't.

Manufacturing will never come back to this country. Democrats have purposely destroyed the US labor market with their employment mandates, regulations and upside down and insane social policies.

PolitiFact - Joe Biden and manufacturing jobs: A closer look

President Joe Biden frequently talks about a significant uptick in manufacturing jobs on his watch. It’s a m

www.politifact.com

carry on

 

[Syskatine]

Seems like the 90's all over again.

If Col. Bo Gritz comes on, it's pure Groundhog day.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Seems like the 90's all over again.

If Col. Bo Gritz comes on, it's pure Groundhog day.

Closer to 30’s Italy.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Politifact

😂😂😂

Carrion, pedoscott

 

[07pilt]

In all fairness some of us vote, you don't.

Manufacturing will never come back to this country. Democrats have purposely destroyed the US labor market with their employment mandates, regulations and upside down and insane social policies.

Manufacturing will never come back to this country because manufacturing productivity is growing far faster than the demand for manufactured goods, which means wages and profits are low. Go ask Bangladesh and Vietnam if they would like to trade their manufacturing sectors for our technology or service sector.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Manufacturing will never come back to this country because manufacturing productivity is growing far faster than the demand for manufactured goods, which means wages and profits are low. Go ask Bangladesh and Vietnam if they would like to trade their manufacturing sectors for our technology or service sector.

In a communist economic system? Surely you are kidding.
Manufacturing has moved overseas as a direct result of US labor cost being more than double in other countries. Add in taxes legal exposure, government regulations and the government lobbying cost and it's far less expensive to manufacture goods overseas. Look at Apple, where are their high tech manufacturing facilities? Damn sure isn't the us.

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

In a communist economic system? Surely you are kidding.
Manufacturing has moved overseas as a direct result of US labor cost being more than double in other countries. Add in taxes legal exposure, government regulations and the government lobbying cost and it's far less expensive to manufacture goods overseas. Look at Apple, where are their high tech manufacturing facilities? Damn sure isn't the us.

Republicans Defeat the ‘Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs’ Amendment | AFL-CIO

House Ways and Means Republicans defeated the “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment offered by Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas), which would have required that multinational corporations looking to invest offshore pay the same tax rate as small businesses or domestic companies investing here...

aflcio.org

When the House Ways and Means Committee debated the GOP tax bill yesterday, Republicans voted down the “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment offered by Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas).

The “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment would require that multinational corporations looking to invest offshore pay the same tax rate as small businesses or domestic companies investing here in America. The amendment was defeated on a party-line vote, with 16 Democrats voting in favor and 23 Republicans voting against.




“AmERiCa FiRsT”





carry on

 

[07pilt]

In a communist economic system? Surely you are kidding.
Manufacturing has moved overseas as a direct result of US labor cost being more than double in other countries. Add in taxes legal exposure, government regulations and the government lobbying cost and it's far less expensive to manufacture goods overseas. Look at Apple, where are their high tech manufacturing facilities? Damn sure isn't the us.

Labor cost? You mean wages? Yes Americans are too productive and make too much money for a manufacturing based economy. We have moved on to higher value added activities like services and technology.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Republicans Defeat the ‘Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs’ Amendment | AFL-CIO

House Ways and Means Republicans defeated the “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment offered by Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas), which would have required that multinational corporations looking to invest offshore pay the same tax rate as small businesses or domestic companies investing here...

aflcio.org

When the House Ways and Means Committee debated the GOP tax bill yesterday, Republicans voted down the “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment offered by Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas).

The “Stop Outsourcing of American Jobs” amendment would require that multinational corporations looking to invest offshore pay the same tax rate as small businesses or domestic companies investing here in America. The amendment was defeated on a party-line vote, with 16 Democrats voting in favor and 23 Republicans voting against.




“AmERiCa FiRsT”

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Labor cost? You mean wages? Yes Americans are too productive and make too much money to support a manufacturing based economy.

LMAO. Employee wages are just a part of labor cost but you already knew that, or you should have.

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

Thank you for proving my point.

carry on

 

[07pilt]

LMAO. Employee wages are just a part of labor cost but you already knew that, or you should have.

Let's compare America wages with Bangladeshi total labor cost. Where do you think the other costs go?

 

[2012Bearcat]

Let's compare America wages with Bangladeshi total labor cost. Where do you think the other costs go?

Need to be more specific with your question.

Keep in mind what employee cost are in the US. Health Insurance, workman's comp, unemployment tax, payroll taxes, retirement benefits, etc, oh and don't forget DEI initiatives, that is of utmost importance.

 

[07pilt]

Need to be more specific with your question.

Keep in mind what employee cost are in the US. Health Insurance, workman's comp, unemployment tax, payroll taxes, retirement benefits, etc, oh and don't forget DEI initiatives, that is of utmost importance.

Allow me to rephrase then:

Labor costs are too high? You mean wages, benefits, and old age standard of living are too high?

Maybe you can run for office on a platform of lower wages, lower benefits, and cuts to social security and Medicare.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Allow me to rephrase then:

Labor costs are too high? You mean wages, benefits, and old age standard of living are too high?

Maybe you can run for office on a platform of lower wages, lower benefits, and cuts to social security and Medicare.

Not a good platform to run on. There is a reason we have signs in Yellowstone that say don't feed the bears.

 

[07pilt]

Not a good platform to run on. There is a reason we have signs in Yellowstone that say don't feed the bears.

Thanks for proving my point

 

[2012Bearcat]

Thanks for proving my point

I doubt you were trying to point out that Democrat policies have created negative consequences they never considered. All of those feel good policies Democrats enacted created the uncompetitive environment we now find ourselves trapped in. We are what, 32 trillion in debt with another something like 200 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities and Democrats want to spend trillions more? That's nuts. We are closing in on the point where we are out of other people's money, then what happens? Well we have several examples from history that might give us a clue.

A quote by Alexander Fraser Tytler

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the p...

www.goodreads.com

Some of us out there know our history and have been warning what was coming.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I doubt you were trying to point out that Democrat policies have created negative consequences they never considered. All of those feel good policies Democrats enacted created the uncompetitive environment we now find ourselves trapped in. We are what, 32 trillion in debt with another something like 200 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities and Democrats want to spend trillions more? That's nuts. We are closing in on the point where we are out of other people's money, then what happens? Well we have several examples from history that might give us a clue.

A quote by Alexander Fraser Tytler

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the p...

www.goodreads.com

Some of us out there know our history and have been warning what was coming.

While I'm sure I'd have minor quibbles with Pilt's analysis, in this instance I think he is mostly over the target. I think it was the British economist David Ricardo that developed his Theory of Comparative Advantage. Speaking in purely economic terms it doesn't matter in a global marketplace what system of governance is involved between countries, one country will have a comparative advantage in one or more economic sectors. I think what Pilt is trying to tell you is the countries he has mentioned have a manufacturing comparative advantage over the US in large part because of reduced labor costs. For that reason it is very unlikely that a US industrial policy aimed at returning manufacturing to America is doomed to failure. I think of it like this: a growing manufacturing sector in a country is evidence it is a second-world country growing into a first-world country. A first world country has many, many, many comparative advantages over all others, but not in *every* case. A first world country hell bent on disabusing comparativre advantage, determined to return manufacturing into its fold will steadfastly turn itself back into second-world status. The appropriate thing to do (and this is where Pilt and I would probably part ways) is for governments to get out of the way and let the markets determine who has which advantage, which will result in prosperity for all concerned. But of course our politicians simply can't keep their noses out, they're certain they can regulate the economy with greater success. It's pathological with them, they can't help themselves. And that goes for Republicans like Donald Trump as well as Democrats like Joe Biden.

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

let the markets determine who has which advantage, which will result in prosperity for all concerned.

Anarchocapitalism is alive and well, Dan…at least as it ever has been in American history. Corporate tax rates are at record lows, large corporations sheltering money offshore, outsourcing of production and manufacturing with cheaper tax treatment.

Is that producing prosperity for all?



carry on

 

[Ponca Dan]

Anarchocapitalism is alive and well, Dan…at least as it ever has been in American history. Corporate tax rates are at record lows, large corporations sheltering money offshore, outsourcing of production and manufacturing with cheaper tax treatment.

Is that producing prosperity for all?



carry on

I would suggest you take an economics course before you say things like this. Not only is free market anarchocapitalism not alive and well, capitalism as it has been practiced in America is hanging by a thread.

 

[07pilt]

I doubt you were trying to point out that Democrat policies have created negative consequences they never considered. All of those feel good policies Democrats enacted created the uncompetitive environment we now find ourselves trapped in. We are what, 32 trillion in debt with another something like 200 trillion dollars in unfunded liabilities and Democrats want to spend trillions more? That's nuts. We are closing in on the point where we are out of other people's money, then what happens? Well we have several examples from history that might give us a clue.

A quote by Alexander Fraser Tytler

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the p...

www.goodreads.com

Some of us out there know our history and have been warning what was coming.

Yes please blame democrats for high wages, benefits, and social security and Medicare. They will gladly take responsibility.

Please tell me several examples of monetary sovereigns running out of money.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Yes please blame democrats for high wages, benefits, and social security and Medicare. They will gladly take responsibility.

Please tell me several examples of monetary sovereigns running out of money.

LMAO, have you seen the cost of living and how the middleclass wealth has declined due to that cost of living. My mothers first house in 1966 was 16k. 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage, brick home in a nice neighborhood. Now that house was just recently appraised for well over 300K. Unfortunately wages have not kept up with inflation. Yea wages have gone up but not near what the cost of living has. Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm old enough to have lived through the times and seen what took place.

Numerous examples of failed Democracies throughout history. Maybe you should read up on it.

 

[07pilt]

LMAO, have you seen the cost of living and how the middleclass wealth has declined due to that cost of living. My mothers first house in 1966 was 16k. 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage, brick home in a nice neighborhood. Now that house was just recently appraised for well over 300K. Unfortunately wages have not kept up with inflation. Yea wages have gone up but not near what the cost of living has. Sorry to burst your bubble but I'm old enough to have lived through the times and seen what took place.

Numerous examples of failed Democracies throughout history. Maybe you should read up on it.

Have you compared your salary to your mother's?

If wages haven't kept up with cost of living where does all the money you are paying going? Profits? Executive pay? I am open to suggestions on addressing that, but I doubt you are actually interested in addressing the reason workers are left behind.

Please name one monetary sovereign let alone a democratic monetary sovereign that has ever run out of money. It has never happened.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Have you compared your salary to your mother's?

If wages haven't kept up with cost of living where does all the money you are paying going? Profits? Executive pay? I am open to suggestions on addressing that, but I doubt you are actually interested in addressing the reason workers are left behind.

Please name one monetary sovereign let alone a democratic monetary sovereign that has ever run out of money. It has never happened.

Forgive me for intruding, but I’m not understanding what you’re saying. Weimar Germany was sovereign and it didn’t run out of money, it went the opposite direction, it made lots of money! What am I missing?

 

[07pilt]

Forgive me for intruding, but I’m not understanding what you’re saying. Weimar Germany was sovereign and it didn’t run out of money, it went the opposite direction, it made lots of money! What am I missing?

Good point, Weimar didn't run out of money. The lesson from Weimar is if you are a monetary sovereign, make sure that your debt is almost all in your sovereign money. (And don't get in a war that destroys your country's productive capacity)

 

[Ponca Dan]

Good point, Weimar didn't run out of money. The lesson from Weimar is if you are a monetary sovereign, make sure that your debt is almost all in your sovereign money. (And don't get in a war that destroys your country's productive capacity)

By “productive capacity” are you referring to manufacturing capacity? And even if *all* your debt is in your own money, how do you prevent Weimar inflation if your debt exceeds your assets? Who will trade with you if everyone suspects you’ll just pay them with ultimately worthless fiat money?

 

[07pilt]

By “productive capacity” are you referring to manufacturing capacity?

The whole shebang not just mfg

And even if *all* your debt is in your own money, how do you prevent Weimar inflation if your debt exceeds your assets? Who will trade with you if everyone suspects you’ll just pay them with ultimately worthless fiat money?

How can you fiat Deutsch Mark debt exceed your fiat Deutsch Mark assets if you can create as many Deutsch Marks as you wish?

Let's say Weimar's economy could produce 500tons of gold per year and the allies assessed a 600 ton per year war reparation. Germany taxes as much as they can and turns around and tries to buy up the 600 tons, they obviously can't. Easy to see for us that it is hopeless since we have specified all the facts, not so easy for the Germans who don't know what the exact capacity of their economy is. They try borrowing and monetizing the debt to hopefully be able to buy enough gold, yet they never can since their fiat can never be worth more than their economy. They keep trying and eventually get hyper inflation.

Now imagine at current levels Weimar can produce 500 Deutsch Marks worth of goods and services per year and the allies assess a 600 Deutsch mark per year war reparation. If the Germans do a one time 2 to 1 devaluation of the currency, now 60% of their production goes to reparations. If they do a 12 to 1 devaluation now 10% of their production goes to reparations. Its a one time devaluation and not an escalating hyperinflation and the economy isn't wholly dedicated to paying reparations.

Now neither of these situations is desirable but one is way better than the other. If you devalue your currency it will be tough to get foreigners to lend you in your currency for a long time, but your internal markets should be fine.

 

[Ponca Dan]

The whole shebang not just mfg

How can you fiat Deutsch Mark debt exceed your fiat Deutsch Mark assets if you can create as many Deutsch Marks as you wish?

Let's say Weimar's economy could produce 500tons of gold per year and the allies assessed a 600 ton per year war reparation. Germany taxes as much as they can and turns around and tries to buy up the 600 tons, they obviously can't. Easy to see for us that it is hopeless since we have specified all the facts, not so easy for the Germans who don't know what the exact capacity of their economy is. They try borrowing and monetizing the debt to hopefully be able to buy enough gold, yet they never can since their fiat can never be worth more than their economy. They keep trying and eventually get hyper inflation.

Now imagine at current levels Weimar can produce 500 Deutsch Marks worth of goods and services per year and the allies assess a 600 Deutsch mark per year war reparation. If the Germans do a one time 2 to 1 devaluation of the currency, now 60% of their production goes to reparations. If they do a 12 to 1 devaluation now 10% of their production goes to reparations. Its a one time devaluation and not an escalating hyperinflation and the economy isn't wholly dedicated to paying reparations.

Now neither of these situations is desirable but one is way better than the other. If you devalue your currency it will be tough to get foreigners to lend you in your currency for a long time, but your internal markets should be fine.

Neither situation is “desirable?” What an understatement! One horrible devastating result is better than a worse horrible devastating result hardly makes it a policy worth following. Internal markets should be fine? Who are you kidding? We live in a global economy, there really is no such thing as an internal market any more. Products are filled with components that come from all over the world. That’s what made Trump’s trade war with the rest of the world so utterly stupid.

 

[07pilt]

Neither situation is “desirable?” What an understatement! One horrible devastating result is better than a worse horrible devastating result hardly makes it a policy worth following. Internal markets should be fine? Who are you kidding? We live in a global economy, there really is no such thing as an internal market any more. Products are filled with components that come from all over the world. That’s what made Trump’s trade war with the rest of the world so utterly stupid.

You can certainly still trade but it will need to be export led, rather than import led as we are used to.

Try not to get involved any anything that might be referred to as "the great war"

 

[SquatchinPoke]

@Ponca Dan crushing another thread on here. Do you just have no one in life to argue with?

 

[Ponca Dan]

@Ponca Dan crushing another thread on here. Do you just have no one in life to argue with?

I'm not going to reply to all your recent potshots other than to thank you for bringing up my old posts for people to have a second look at them.

 

[SquatchinPoke]

I'm not going to reply to all your recent potshots other than to thank you for bringing up my old posts for people to have a second look at them.

Oh I knew your narcist ass would love it.

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

Oh I knew your narcist ass would love it.

***picks fights with any and everyone passive-aggressively with no substance to said threats of physical harm, posts immediately after someone replies - often, too flustered and triggered to spellcheck buzzwords…such as narcissist***





carry on

 

[2012Bearcat]

***picks fights with any and everyone passive-aggressively with no substance to said threats of physical harm, posts immediately after someone replies - often, too flustered and triggered to spellcheck buzzwords…such as narcissist***

Loading…

preview.redd.it

 

[SquatchinPoke]

***picks fights with any and everyone passive-aggressively with no substance to said threats of physical harm, posts immediately after someone replies - often, too flustered and triggered to spellcheck buzzwords…such as narcissist***





carry on

Aw you mad I outed Dan as the more looney of the toons?

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

Aw you mad I outed Dan as the more looney of the toons?

More of your best stuff lol

How can I be angry at someone who can’t spell narcissist, let alone find the autocorrect function on their phone to instantaneously learn new things? I pity you sir haha






carry on

 

[SquatchinPoke]

More of your best stuff lol

How can I be angry at someone who can’t spell narcissist, let alone find the autocorrect function on their phone to instantaneously learn new things? I pity you sir haha






carry on

Sorry I work to much to give a shit about what you think of grammar or spelling on a message board peaches. I throw shit out hit post move on. Sorry Champ do I need to hire a publisher for my postings and musings here?

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

Sorry I work to much to give a shit about what you think of grammar or spelling on a message board peaches. I throw shit out hit post move on. Sorry Champ do I need to hire a publisher for my postings and musings here?

My biggest headache is word order. I'm trying my best to learn 3 languages. In English I ask, "would you like to eat with me tomorrow night?' In German, "would like you tomorrow night with me eat?"


In German, "the stores are open." To express a condition, when the stores open are. Because the stores open are.

I'm sure grammer enforcement can pick me to pieces.