Is John Smith the worst coach in OSU history?

[OAMC99]

What do the numbers say? He has all of the worst NCAA finishes. Lowest percentage of conference and national titles?

We all love him, he's a great guy and Cowboy, but it's time to go.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Drama much? He's not coaching against 1925 competition.

 

[CowboyMedic]

What do the numbers say? He has all of the worst NCAA finishes. Lowest percentage of conference and national titles?

We all love him, he's a great guy and Cowboy, but it's time to go.

 

[OAMC99]

Drama much? He's not coaching against 1925 competition.

What does the math say? I think we'd be stunned. Average NCAA placing there's no doubt he's dead last.

 

[Pokewood]

Gonna be hard to keep listening to that pre-match ritual extolling our prowess as we introduce the team.

 

[osudog]

My high school son has never seen OSU win a team title he looks at OSU as a good program but not great one. It’s all he knows

 

[CowboyTanker]

What does the math say? I think we'd be stunned. Average NCAA placing there's no doubt he's dead last.

It's a pretty easy exercise from the media guide

Average NCAA finish (total cumulative finishes/years coached)

Ed Gallagher 1.13
Art Griffith 1.85
Myron Roderick 2.62
Tommy Chesbro 2.87
Joe Seay 2.71
John Smith 5.03

I only counted NCAA finishes....they didn't start until 1928.
I didn't count 2 years of John's....the penalty year (not John's doing) and the covid year (no NCAA)


NCAA team championships/years coached

Ed Gallagher 85%
Art Griffith 62%
Myron Roderick 54%
Tommy Chesbro 7%
Joe Seay 29%
John Smith 17%

 

[biocowboy]

I was just thinking that most of these current recruits don’t even remember OSU being dominate. Maybe Ohio State.

 

[OAMC99]

It's a pretty easy exercise from the media guide

Average NCAA finish (total cumulative finishes/years coached)

Ed Gallagher 1.13
Art Griffith 1.85
Myron Roderick 2.62
Tommy Chesbro 2.87
Joe Seay 2.71
John Smith 5.03

I only counted NCAA finishes....they didn't start until 1928.
I didn't count 2 years of John's....the penalty year (not John's doing) and the covid year (no NCAA)


NCAA team championships/years coached

Ed Gallagher 85%
Art Griffith 62%
Myron Roderick 54%
Tommy Chesbro 7%
Joe Seay 29%
John Smith 17%

THANK YOU. Proof.

 

[OAMC99]

It's a pretty easy exercise from the media guide

Average NCAA finish (total cumulative finishes/years coached)

Ed Gallagher 1.13
Art Griffith 1.85
Myron Roderick 2.62
Tommy Chesbro 2.87
Joe Seay 2.71
John Smith 5.03

I only counted NCAA finishes....they didn't start until 1928.
I didn't count 2 years of John's....the penalty year (not John's doing) and the covid year (no NCAA)


NCAA team championships/years coached

Ed Gallagher 85%
Art Griffith 62%
Myron Roderick 54%
Tommy Chesbro 7%
Joe Seay 29%
John Smith 17%

When you have time could you do conference championship percentage as well please?

 

[poke00]

Drama much? He's not coaching against 1925 competition.

Neither is PSU. We’re just not what we once was.

 

[NCPoke2]

Severe drop off with Chesbro but I have always heard that he and Roderick were at loggerheads for most of his career. Also coincided with the rise of Dan Gable and Iowa. Seay got us the death penalty in Wrestling and set the program back a few years. While I agree that Smith had some mind blowing bad years, hopefully he is adjusting to the new college landscape and can get us back to the top, or at least the top 3. Penn State is going to be a tough nut to crack but someone will eventually do it, might as well be us.

 

[lookleft goright]

By those stats he may be the worst coach at OSU, but he is a darn good coach. Things have changed and maybe it is time for him to go, but no one should ever say he is not a great coach!

 

[JAY45]

Times have changed dramatically...there are several things that don't make sense this day in age...and for whatever reason OSU has not adapted in wrestling.

That said, it doesn't seem like you can label a Coach with multiple National Championships as "the worst".

 

[CowboyTanker]

Times have changed dramatically...there are several things that don't make sense this day in age...and for whatever reason OSU has not adapted in wrestling.

That said, it doesn't seem like you can label a Coach with multiple National Championships as "the worst".

He’s the worst OSU wrestling coach…..there’s no debate. That does not mean he isn’t a good coach….hes just not a good coach for OSU. To be responsible for the greatest sports program of all time you better be able to move the program forward and you certainly can’t wait until the program declines to near irrelevance to take action. Until John Smith retires and gets out of the way, little progress can be made. This program is not about winning duals, it’s about competing for and winning national championships.

 

[NCPoke2]

Actually, from my point of view there is quite a bit of debate. You could make a case about our first 3 coaches winning titles over 50% of the time to Chesbro winning them less than 10% of the time or Seay getting us the death penalty. At the end of the day we all want the team to improve. Is John the man to take us forward? Don’t have the answer to that but this year showed signs of improvement and if that continues I see no reason to jump the ship. The next 2 - 3 years will be critical and it starts with the portal now.

 

[Mrgrapple]

Comparing apples to oranges

 

[CowboyUp61]

some of you are dumber than a box of rocks.

 

[Forpetessake]

I think has a lot to do with high school football wrestling as well. In the 80s , Oklahoma was one of the dominate states.

 

[Sebastian]

We need to keep John around after any transition in some glorified role. Assistant AD of wrestling for $150k. No real authority but to give advice, shake hands and help raise money. I think we really get a lot of our "cred" these days from his past glory and reputation as the greatest American wrestler.

On a side note...we should write into the entire athletics department's contracts you can't buy acreage/own any animals other than cats and dogs. This pretend farming/ranching is a cancer on multiple fronts in our AD!!!

 

[OAMC99]

Clarification: John Smith is an all-time great wrestling coach. He's just the worst one this unparalleled program has had. What he's allowed to happen the past five years is unacceptable.

Think about this - we have a lot of people on here celebrating our TENTH place finish because it's so much better than the last couple of years. All of the program "worsts" have come in the last 10+ years.

The biggest thing for me is no one seems to get better. At the national tournament we're almost always a net loss on seeds to placement and we lose way more matches we're favored in vs upsets we gain. Why?

 

[Okie_Pat]

I’m not sure it would have made a difference but in 2020 the year nationals was canceled we had a few seniors in the lineup that would have scored some points and AA. Unfortunately how they chose to handle it made those guys careers done. If they could have had an extra year we may of been pretty close because I believe Iowa won it the following year. Hard to remember for me exactly but I know we had Joe smith, Pic and I believe, Chandler Rogers and someone else.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

It's also a historical fact that the parity in wrestling across all of D1 in the last 30 years is at a MUCH higher level compared to before that. Which only lends more credit to that damn blue team out east unfortunately. So many teams have risen to be consistently good that you just didn't see when John took over and before. Most of the top 5 placings were from the same handful of teams. Many more states/clubs are producing high quality HS kids than ever seen before so there's many more great recruits to go around. Not to mention the overall quality coaching at the D1 level is unbelievable all over the country now.

 

[OKSTATE1]

No reason to diminish anything about John’s coaching career.

Personally I feel he should have moved on at least 5 years ago and have a hard time seeing how others disagree.

Thank him for his time and make a change. Don’t diminish him, respect his time here, he has committed a good part of his life to OSU.

I follow wrestling and not as closely as some, but I follow the team during the year.

To be honest, it seems to me fandom in terms of OSU wrestling has become very cultish and snottish. It does not feel like a welcoming fanbase or a program that wants to admit things should be much better, or how some just don’t understand the excuses.

It is really strange. Some coaches it is ok to question, make personal attacks, and even post direct lies about.

But don’t express an opinion about OSU wrestling during the NCAA wrestling championships if you have not been posting all year long.

I bet we might be surprised how many lurk on this board and don’t post.

I see no reason to support a program that puts one individual above the entire program, and combine that with the fact it seems some wrestling fans have this weird cult like attitude you can’t be a fan unless you live, breathe, and die wrestling each day. Nor does your opinion matter.

If you are not welcoming in to your sport to those that have an interest in the sport and expanding your audience, you are slowing dying.

OSU softball and softball in general now has more people following softball on TV than wrestling. The sport is welcoming, they don’t seem cultish, and their “lifer” fans don’t make fun of those that started following the sport in college or later.

General interest in OSU wrestling I believe is in serious decline because no longer can the non-lifer fan care to watch OSU wrestling because of the crazy excellence it once stood for.

The problem is many people no longer care if the team finishes worse than 10th. That IS the problem.

The program has fallen for so long many casual fans have moved on and may not be back.

The lifers might feel JS is a wrestling god that is untouchable. But the non-lifers get pulled in because of the school and the excellence the program was achieving.

So, which comes first, John or the program? Sure, yell at the non lifer fans and tell them to STFU and kick their ass out the door for suggesting time for JS to go.

Many will not let the door hit em in the ass. Not here to follow a wrestling “god”. I have been following the team since 1979 as a Frosh at OSU and I use to go to wrestling matches by myself because my circle of friends could care less about wrestling. Not a lifer, been a casual fan for a LONG time. Never wrestled in HS or prior. This program about to lose me for several reasons. And I don’t think anyone cares, which is fine. Message received.

 

[chasepollard]

No reason to diminish anything about John’s coaching career.

Personally I feel he should have moved on at least 5 years ago and have a hard time seeing how others disagree.

Thank him for his time and make a change. Don’t diminish him, respect his time here, he has committed a good part of his life to OSU.

I follow wrestling and not as closely as some, but I follow the team during the year.

To be honest, it seems to me fandom in terms of OSU wrestling has become very cultish and snottish. It does not feel like a welcoming fanbase or a program that wants to admit things should be much better, or how some just don’t understand the excuses.

It is really strange. Some coaches it is ok to question, make personal attacks, and even post direct lies about.

But don’t express an opinion about OSU wrestling during the NCAA wrestling championships if you have not been posting all year long.

I bet we might be surprised how many lurk on this board and don’t post.

I see no reason to support a program that puts one individual above the entire program, and combine that with the fact it seems some wrestling fans have this weird cult like attitude you can’t be a fan unless you live, breath, and die wrestling each day. Nor does your opinion matter.

If you are not welcoming in to your sport to those that have an interest in the sport and expanding your audience, you are slowing dying.

OSU softball and softball in general now has more people following softball on TV than wrestling. The sport is welcoming, they don’t seem cultish, and their “lifer” fans don’t make fun of those that started following the sport in college or later.

General interest in OSU wrestling I believe is in serious decline because no longer can the non-lifer fan care to watch OSU wrestling because of the crazy excellence it once stood for.

The problem is many people no longer care if the team finishes worse than 10th. That IS the problem.

The program has fallen for so long many casual fans have moved on and may not be back.

The lifers might feel JS is a wrestling god that is untouchable. But the non-lifers get pulled in because of the school and the excellence the program was achieving.

So, which comes first, John or the program? Sure, yell at the non lifer fans and tell them to STFU and kick their ass out the door for suggesting time for JS to go.

Many will not let the door hit em in the ass. Not here to follow a wrestling “god”. I have been following the team since 1979 as a Frosh at OSU and I use to go to wrestling matches by myself because my circle of friends could care less about wrestling. Not a lifer, been a casual fan for a LONG time. Never wrestled in HS or prior. This program about to lose me for several reasons. And I don’t think anyone cares, which is fine. Message received.

You do realize you just defined Gundy in many ways?

Also, you’ve obviously jumped in the deep end and made multiple assumptions.

There’s been lots and lots of discussions amongst fans and “lifers” that John needs to transition out.

But per usual, you type a 1000 word essay in a sanctimonious tone chastising the audience. If you want to be lost over “several reasons” than just quietly, get lost.

 

[OKSTATE1]

You do realize you just defined Gundy in many ways?

Also, you’ve obviously jumped in the deep end and made multiple assumptions.

There’s been lots and lots of discussions amongst fans and “lifers” that John needs to transition out.

But per usual, you type a 1000 word essay in a sanctimonious tone chastising the audience. If you want to be lost over “several reasons” than just quietly, get lost.

Gundy😂 Like he inherited the program John did. I will be very kind and leave that comparison at that.

We had a fan that made fun of the wrestling fans that came out to criticize only during the NCAA wrestling tournament. Some fans agreed with that post. In the Corral.

Is that everyone? No. But if you think that shoe possibly fits, please consider the sport needs all the friends it can get.

Some of us were already told basically to get lost and were shamed for having an opinion. I am not looking for reasons, hence my concern.

That was a very strange twist to me. Wrestling fans who are perceived as only NCAA wrestling fans one time a year which is a huge assumption to basically STFU or to humiliate them or both.

I am trying to bring more civil discussion and respect about a sport and program that needs as much support as possible.

I am not going to diminish John’s accomplishments. I think he needs to be gone and I said no reason to do that, so obviously I am aware not all fans defend John and have been critical.

The infighting hurts the program. And if you love the sport, a sport that IMO is slowly dying, if you think a fan is an uneducated dumbass about the sport and a one week a year fan of wrestling? Why not invite them to a wrestling match and educate them if you can? Maybe activate them to attending matches in the future?

We have a pretty good number of football fans and support. Fans can come and go and that churn mostly equals out. And even football fans don’t seem to weight how long, or how many games you have been to, or if you only watch the CFP, to determine if you deserve to be shamed for an opinion. Of course, assuming that is the type of fan you are. I did not realize a fan classification existed for some until this year.

Something to think about, or not. And obviously you see no big deal if fans are being told to get lost for whatever reason for a sport that needs all the fan interest it can get, and then to activate those fans in to revenue.

I am not going to tell you to get lost, I will leave it at that.

 

[Mr.OSU]

It's also a historical fact that the parity in wrestling across all of D1 in the last 30 years is at a MUCH higher level compared to before that. Which only lends more credit to that damn blue team out east unfortunately. So many teams have risen to be consistently good that you just didn't see when John took over and before. Most of the top 5 placings were from the same handful of teams. Many more states/clubs are producing high quality HS kids than ever seen before so there's many more great recruits to go around. Not to mention the overall quality coaching at the D1 level is unbelievable all over the country now.

Tell that to Penn State.

 

[Okie_Pat]

We had a fan that made fun of the wrestling fans that came out to criticize only during the NCAA wrestling tournament. Some fans agreed with that post. In the Corral.

Is that everyone? No. But if you think that shoe possibly fits, please consider the sport needs all the friends it can get.

Some of us were already told basically to get lost and were shamed for having an opinion. I am not looking for reasons, hence my concern.

That was a very strange twist to me. Wrestling fans who are perceived as only NCAA wrestling fans one time a year which is a huge assumption to basically STFU or to humiliate them or both.

I try to read all the messages on here and unless I missed something I haven’t seen anything that fits the description of what you’re saying. Everyone has an opinion on here, are they all respected or agreeded with? Certainly not, but I haven’t come across any belittlement of a poster who was a first time poster or casual fan. Is it possible you took some responses out of context?

 

[OKSTATE1]

I try to read all the messages on here and unless I missed something I haven’t seen anything that fits the description of what you’re saying. Everyone has an opinion on here, are they all respected or agreeded with? Certainly not, but I haven’t come across any belittlement of a poster who was a first time poster or casual fan. Is it possible you took some responses out of context?

It was over in the Corral during the NCAA championships, I guess posted on the wrong board as well.

Like I said if the shoes does not fit fine. Just offering my 2 cents, if I am wrong I am wrong.

 

[AtownPoke]

Tell that to Penn State.

Cael is just different. We’re deflecting when we say it’s just the kids and not him. The guy flat out kills it. He has won enough to give himself the luxury of having a bunch of freaks but he created an environment where they just turn it loose and love every minute of it. They go and get every single match and keep the pedal down for bonus. Very little stalling or going into a shell with a lead like John’s guys. The crazy thing is you can see our kids get worse about it as our season progresses. Idk if it’s the pressure to win that causes it or what but we damn sure don’t let it fly.

 

[Mr.OSU]

Cael is just different. We’re deflecting when we say it’s just the kids and not him. The guy flat out kills it. He has won enough to give himself the luxury of having a bunch of freaks but he created an environment where they just turn it loose and love every minute of it. They go and get every single match and keep the pedal down for bonus. Very little stalling or going into a shell with a lead like John’s guys. The crazy thing is you can see our kids get worse about it as our season progresses. Idk if it’s the pressure to win that causes it or what but we damn sure don’t let it fly.

Again why I love the idea of swinging for Daniel Cormier. Great guy and would be an insane recruiter. Plus he still wants revenge against Cael.

 

[Howie_Fartz]

Tell that to Penn State.

I literally referred to them when I said that damn blue team out east.

 

[skylinepoke]

Cael is just different. We’re deflecting when we say it’s just the kids and not him. The guy flat out kills it. He has won enough to give himself the luxury of having a bunch of freaks but he created an environment where they just turn it loose and love every minute of it. They go and get every single match and keep the pedal down for bonus. Very little stalling or going into a shell with a lead like John’s guys. The crazy thing is you can see our kids get worse about it as our season progresses. Idk if it’s the pressure to win that causes it or what but we damn sure don’t let it fly.

Agree with everything in this post. I would add my view of the difference between the two programs. When a psu wrestler gets taken down, he immediately does his best to get back to his feet and escape. When most of our guys give up a TD, we stick our head on the mat and consider the options. The difference is attitude, pride, and coaching and we need to change our attitude to be like psu.

 

[alex1fly]

I knew we'd get Grumpy Wrestling Fan Bingo eventually! This one has a clickbait title, false equivalencies, a wrestling fanbase hates me/you story, cherry-picked data, sweeping condemnations of athletes, PSU worship, and Athletic Director cosplay all on the first page. NOICE