I Read This And Thought How Shockingly Similar

[Ponca Dan]

This sounds like what the Nazis did when deciding which Jew would go straight to the gas chamber and which would be used as slave labor first.

‘Come out, you animals’: how the massacre at al-Shifa Hospital happened

During the massacre at al-Shifa Hospital, the Israeli army shot patients in their beds and doctors who refused to abandon the sick, separated people into groups with differently-colored bracelets, and executed hundreds of civil government employees.

mondoweiss.net

 

[Ponca Dan]

This sounds like what the Nazis did when deciding which Jew would go straight to the gas chamber and which would be used as slave labor first.

‘Come out, you animals’: how the massacre at al-Shifa Hospital happened

During the massacre at al-Shifa Hospital, the Israeli army shot patients in their beds and doctors who refused to abandon the sick, separated people into groups with differently-colored bracelets, and executed hundreds of civil government employees.

mondoweiss.net

I would have started a new thread but I know that would drive some of you nuts, so I'll post this here. There is no question there are many similarities between the Nazi treatment of Jews in the ghettos and the Zionist treatment of Palestinians. But there is one glaring difference between the two when it comes to genocide. I think on some level the Nazis knew what they were doing was morally reprehensible and so they tried to hide what they were doing as best they could. They loaded Jews into boxcars and shipped them away from the cities to camps surrounded by flowers, gassed them mercilessly and dumped their bodies in land fills and quickly covered it up to quell the stench of decaying human flesh. Zionist Israel, OTOH, celebrates its genocide, commits it right out in the open then looks us in the eye and denies what it is doing, insists they are only defending themselves and they are the true victims. I wonder if Sam Harris would think the Zionists are worse than the Nazis.

 

[aix_xpert]

Dan,

Simple question that a real journalist would have thought to ask:

"How does a peaceful hospital with no terrorists present get sieged for 2 weeks? If there are no combatants, that siege would have lasted 10 minutes." Am I the only one who sees this gaping hole in the story above?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Dan,

Simple question that a real journalist would have thought to ask:

"How does a peaceful hospital with no terrorists present get sieged for 2 weeks? If there are no combatants, that siege would have lasted 10 minutes." Am I the only one who sees this gaping hole in the story above?

No, I am sure you are not the only Israeli apologist that sees a gaping hole. The slaughter started right away, it took two weeks to "clear" the entire campus. Perhaps you can answer the question the reporter asked: how did all those Hamas fighters get into the hospital after the first Israeli wave of destruction and the Israeli occupation of the area ever since?

 

[Alpha Woke]

Dan is officially in a cult.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Dan is officially in a cult.

Yeah, that's what it is.

 

[Alpha Woke]

Yeah, that's what it is.

So, just not much of a thinker?

 

[Ponca Dan]

So, just not much of a thinker?

I think about a lot of things a lot of the time. You should try it sometimes, it might blow out some of the cobwebs that have built up in your brain.

 

[Alpha Woke]

I think about a lot of things a lot of the time. You should try it sometimes, it might blow out some of the cobwebs that have built up in your brain.

When is the last time you’d say you thought?

All we see is you repeating some Arabs thoughts.

Or, far left talking points.

 

[Ponca Dan]

When is the last time you’d say you thought?

All we see is you repeating some Arabs thoughts.

Or, far left talking points.

Okay, I've reached my limit of dealing with your frivolousness for one day.

 

[Alpha Woke]

Okay, I've reached my limit of dealing with your frivolousness for one day.

Sure sure.

Did you read the NPR article I linked?

 

[pokestate1861]

I hear they think Iran will attack Israel in the next few says. I assume you will be backing Iran, Dan?

 

[Ponca Dan]

I hear they think Iran will attack Israel in the next few says. I assume you will be backing Iran, Dan?

Why would you assume that? I have never deviated from my anti-war attitude. What would lead you to think I would deviate now?

 

[pokestate1861]

You know, the whole hate Israel thing.

 

[Ponca Dan]

You know, the whole hate Israel thing.

Point to a single time I have expressed hatred toward Israel.

 

[aix_xpert]

I know I'm a glutton but here we go Dan. Here's things that make me go "hmmm" when I read this story:

1) “When we heard the vehicles, I told my colleague we had to leave immediately, thinking they might be headed toward the hospital itself,” Z said, explaining that anyone employed by the Hamas government is regarded as wanted by Israel. His colleague didn’t listen, believing that the army might be invading a nearby area instead. “He told me they were probably headed to the industrial zone.”

If the Hospital was already cleared and supposedly safe, why would the doctor's first thought be that "of course the military is coming here". Certainly has a feel that "Z" already knows that Hamas is present there. (Of course he knew, because he's a member of Hamas as shown in point 2).

2) At first, Z’s colleague refused to leave, but as the sound of the tanks drew nearer, both decided to leave immediately. While they were both civilians with no military background, they were both members of the Hamas movement.

Hmm...so the first hand account of the story, is from a self-declared member of Hamas. Not just a 'peaceful Palestinian civilian', but a Hamas member. Clearly no potential for bias, misrepresentation, exaggeration or deceit there.

3) “On the night of the invasion, there were two street vendors who always sat at the entrance of al-Shifa,” the survivor told Mondoweiss. “One of them sold water, and the other sold canned foods. When the invasion happened, the two merchants revealed themselves to be soldiers. They took out handguns and entered the hospital with other soldiers, and they directed them where to go. They had been there for a long time and knew where everything was.”

So Israel had monitored the hospital first. They didn't just randomly choose and happen to find Hamas there. They used accurate intelligence and even the 'survivor' noted: "They knew where everything was". What's "everything" one has to wonder, if there's nothing actually there?

4) When everyone left the buildings, the army began to separate the crowds of people into groups, making each group wear differently-colored plastic bracelets. The soldiers told them that these bracelets were connected to a system that alerts snipers to their movements. They were divided into two colors: yellow, which was attached to hospital staff and whoever the army considered civilians, and red, which was given to people who could not move on their own, such as patients, the injured, amputees, or people with broken limbs.

Interesting. So they clearly worked to distinguish between civilians (who got yellow bands) and potential terrorists (who got red bands). And if you didn't have a band after the fact, then you were treated the same as if you had a red band, which makes sense. Sounds very much like what genocidal regimes do. /eyeroll

5) There were some in the hospital who resisted and attempted to open fire, including police officers carrying handguns. That number of people was minor, and their resistance did not save them

So the IDF did find armed resistance in the hospital complex? How dare the IDF troopers defend themselves.

6) The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said that the massacre at al-Shifa was one of the largest in Palestinian history,

Finally, the key NGO doing the story confirmation is Euro-Med which refers to Palestine as the Palestine Occupied Territories, which tells me all I need to know about their supposed non-bias in this engagement.

So now I've read ANOTHER one of your extremist articles and have shredded it point by point. It certainly looks to me like Israel is in a war zone and doing things as reasonably as possible.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I know I'm a glutton but here we go Dan. Here's things that make me go "hmmm" when I read this story:

1) “When we heard the vehicles, I told my colleague we had to leave immediately, thinking they might be headed toward the hospital itself,” Z said, explaining that anyone employed by the Hamas government is regarded as wanted by Israel. His colleague didn’t listen, believing that the army might be invading a nearby area instead. “He told me they were probably headed to the industrial zone.”

If the Hospital was already cleared and supposedly safe, why would the doctor's first thought be that "of course the military is coming here". Certainly has a feel that "Z" already knows that Hamas is present there. (Of course he knew, because he's a member of Hamas as shown in point 2).

2) At first, Z’s colleague refused to leave, but as the sound of the tanks drew nearer, both decided to leave immediately. While they were both civilians with no military background, they were both members of the Hamas movement.

Hmm...so the first hand account of the story, is from a self-declared member of Hamas. Not just a 'peaceful Palestinian civilian', but a Hamas member. Clearly no potential for bias, misrepresentation, exaggeration or deceit there.

3) “On the night of the invasion, there were two street vendors who always sat at the entrance of al-Shifa,” the survivor told Mondoweiss. “One of them sold water, and the other sold canned foods. When the invasion happened, the two merchants revealed themselves to be soldiers. They took out handguns and entered the hospital with other soldiers, and they directed them where to go. They had been there for a long time and knew where everything was.”

So Israel had monitored the hospital first. They didn't just randomly choose and happen to find Hamas there. They used accurate intelligence and even the 'survivor' noted: "They knew where everything was". What's "everything" one has to wonder, if there's nothing actually there?

4) When everyone left the buildings, the army began to separate the crowds of people into groups, making each group wear differently-colored plastic bracelets. The soldiers told them that these bracelets were connected to a system that alerts snipers to their movements. They were divided into two colors: yellow, which was attached to hospital staff and whoever the army considered civilians, and red, which was given to people who could not move on their own, such as patients, the injured, amputees, or people with broken limbs.

Interesting. So they clearly worked to distinguish between civilians (who got yellow bands) and potential terrorists (who got red bands). And if you didn't have a band after the fact, then you were treated the same as if you had a red band, which makes sense. Sounds very much like what genocidal regimes do. /eyeroll

5) There were some in the hospital who resisted and attempted to open fire, including police officers carrying handguns. That number of people was minor, and their resistance did not save them

So the IDF did find armed resistance in the hospital complex? How dare the IDF troopers defend themselves.

6) The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor said that the massacre at al-Shifa was one of the largest in Palestinian history,

Finally, the key NGO doing the story confirmation is Euro-Med which refers to Palestine as the Palestine Occupied Territories, which tells me all I need to know about their supposed non-bias in this engagement.

So now I've read ANOTHER one of your extremist articles and have shredded it point by point. It certainly looks to me like Israel is in a war zone and doing things as reasonably as possible.

1) You may not know it but tanks and other armored vehicles make distinct sounds as they rumble through the rubble thay have created. So what is Z supposed to have thought when he heard that distinct sound?

2) An account from a Hamas employee of the civil affairs division of the Gazan government. The man was not a terrorist. I have talked about the separation of divisions within Hamas before, the "military/terrorist" division, and the civil affairs people who were mostly bureaucrats like we have in our governemtn but are not soldiers. Virtually every Hamas person at the hospital were from the civil affairs division.

3) Yes, Israel is famous for its intelligence services (except for Oct 7, isn't that odd?), and those two were part of the operation and providing information that "Hamas" was there. But it was "civil affairs" Hamas, not fighters. I think it is possible Israel knows the difference between "military" Hamas and "civil affairs" Hamas, but were desperate to show a big-time victory to its apologists in order that they keep the faith, people like you. This allowed them to claim they had killed and captured hundreds of Hamas, which is true, but not "military" Hamas. But it gave you glee at what you were told, so it was a successful mission.

4) Yes, that's far and away the most intersting thing (to me) in the whole article, the fact that Israel used almost the exact same tactic against the Palestinians they captured that the Nazis used against Jews when they separated them and sent some to be gassed and others to work as slave labor.

5) Yeah, they found a handful of hospital security that had handguns. How dare they try to defend the people in the building they were hired to defend!

6) All you have to do is prove them wrong in their assesment, but instead you avoid doing that and imply they are being untruthful. By the way, Palestine *is* occupied territory; I guess you didn't know that.

I don't think Israel is so much in a war zone as a killing zone, like shooting fish in a barrel. I suppose it's just a matter of semantics.

 

[aix_xpert]

1) You may not know it but tanks and other armored vehicles make distinct sounds as they rumble through the rubble thay have created. So what is Z supposed to have thought when he heard that distinct sound?

When you hear a police car do you normally think they are coming to your house? And per the story the colleague didn't jump to the conclusion that they were coming to the hospital. In other parlence, we'd associate this to a 'guilty conscience', but you seem unable to apply such common sense principles to this situation.

2) An account from a Hamas employee of the civil affairs division of the Gazan government. The man was not a terrorist. I have talked about the separation of divisions within Hamas before, the "military/terrorist" division, and the civil affairs people who were mostly bureaucrats like we have in our governemtn but are not soldiers. Virtually every Hamas person at the hospital were from the civil affairs division.

The war is Israel vs. Hamas. Not Isreal vs. the select Hamas individuals who happen to carry a gun. And you avoided the point that his statements are subject to question as he's clearly a member of the side that benefits from exaggerating Israel's actions.

3) Yes, Israel is famous for its intelligence services (except for Oct 7, isn't that odd?), and those two were part of the operation and providing information that "Hamas" was there. But it was "civil affairs" Hamas, not fighters. I think it is possible Israel knows the difference between "military" Hamas and "civil affairs" Hamas, but were desperate to show a big-time victory to its apologists in order that they keep the faith, people like you. This allowed them to claim they had killed and captured hundreds of Hamas, which is true, but not "military" Hamas. But it gave you glee at what you were told, so it was a successful mission.

Except it was fighters. We proved that when IDF faced gunfire in the building. So your statement is just wrong. But no surprise there. But I do find it that in the initial threads with you, you tried to segregate Hamas from Palestinians. Now you are segregating Hamas fighters from Hamas 'Civil service'. The paper-pushers for the Nazis were still Nazis.

And I see you avoided the fact that even your story acknowledges that the IDF 'found' something because they 'knew where it was'. You seem to imply there was nothing to find, but that's not what YOUR story says.

4) Yes, that's far and away the most intersting thing (to me) in the whole article, the fact that Israel used almost the exact same tactic against the Palestinians they captured that the Nazis used against Jews when they separated them and sent some to be gassed and others to work as slave labor.

This is just dumb, even for you. From 1000 feet, which is where the snipers are, how do they tell a potential terrorist from a civilian? Arm bands seem like a good solution. Vests would be too, except armbands can be expected to be worn for days, whereas the same isn't true for a neon vest.

5) Yeah, they found a handful of hospital security that had handguns. How dare they try to defend the people in the building they were hired to defend!

Who said they were just handguns? Oh yea, the Hamas 'civil servant'. The fact is, he clearly stated that they were armed. IDF treated them accordingly. Its not like they were carrying slingshots.

6) All you have to do is prove them wrong in their assesment, but instead you avoid doing that and imply they are being untruthful. By the way, Palestine *is* occupied territory; I guess you didn't know that.

I wasn't there so I can't prove them wrong. But there is plenty of contradiction and questionable statements in their statements for me to reasonably question their truthfulness.

I don't think Israel is so much in a war zone as a killing zone, like shooting fish in a barrel. I suppose it's just a matter of semantics.

Fish don't shoot back which even your story said Hamas did.

 

[Ponca Dan]

When you hear a police car do you normally think they are coming to your house? And per the story the colleague didn't jump to the conclusion that they were coming to the hospital. In other parlence, we'd associate this to a 'guilty conscience', but you seem unable to apply such common sense principles to this situation.



The war is Israel vs. Hamas. Not Isreal vs. the select Hamas individuals who happen to carry a gun. And you avoided the point that his statements are subject to question as he's clearly a member of the side that benefits from exaggerating Israel's actions.


Except it was fighters. We proved that when IDF faced gunfire in the building. So your statement is just wrong. But no surprise there. But I do find it that in the initial threads with you, you tried to segregate Hamas from Palestinians. Now you are segregating Hamas fighters from Hamas 'Civil service'. The paper-pushers for the Nazis were still Nazis.

And I see you avoided the fact that even your story acknowledges that the IDF 'found' something because they 'knew where it was'. You seem to imply there was nothing to find, but that's not what YOUR story says.


This is just dumb, even for you. From 1000 feet, which is where the snipers are, how do they tell a potential terrorist from a civilian? Arm bands seem like a good solution. Vests would be too, except armbands can be expected to be worn for days, whereas the same isn't true for a neon vest.


Who said they were just handguns? Oh yea, the Hamas 'civil servant'. The fact is, he clearly stated that they were armed. IDF treated them accordingly. Its not like they were carrying slingshots.


I wasn't there so I can't prove them wrong. But there is plenty of contradiction and questionable statements in their statements for me to reasonably question their truthfulness.


Fish don't shoot back which even your story said Hamas did.

Okay, we'll just disagree on this. I do admit I find it shocking that you so very much think Item 4 was a good thing. If you don't see the comparison to Nazis lining up Jews and telling one of them to go "here" and another one to go "there" there isn't much else I can say. Plus, I doubt the patients who were shot as they lay in the beds or the doctors and nurses who refused to leave their side were shot from 1000 yards away.

 

[aix_xpert]

Okay, we'll just disagree on this. I do admit I find it shocking that you so very much think Item 4 was a good thing. If you don't see the comparison to Nazis lining up Jews and telling one of them to go "here" and another one to go "there" there isn't much else I can say. Plus, I doubt the patients who were shot as they lay in the beds or the doctors and nurses who refused to leave their side were shot from 1000 yards away.

Except they didn't ship them out. This was a way of labeling the civilians so they could get better treatment, and could move around and not have their head shot off in a war zone. But I can see why you wouldn't see it that way, given you think Israel is on a genocidal rampage and that all Gazans are to be murdered on sight.

 

[aix_xpert]

BTW, what else could we associate to how the Nazi's did it? Congrats, they used armbands to separate groups. Should I have been offended when I get a wristband showing I was allowed on the floor during a concert? They used railcars to move people to the prison camps. Should we disband Amtrak?

You're focused on the use of the arm bands which is pedantic. Meanwhile, I appluad the IDF for telling them exactly why they're getting the band their getting. Your story even stated that the IDF soldiers said why they got a Yellow or Red armband. Seems like they treated the 'Yellow-band Gazans' aka the civilians politely. I'm pretty sure the Nazis didn't tell their Jewish captors, here: this band is for the death camps and this band is for the labor camps.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Except they didn't ship them out. This was a way of labeling the civilians so they could get better treatment, and could move around and not have their head shot off in a war zone. But I can see why you wouldn't see it that way, given you think Israel is on a genocidal rampage and that all Gazans are to be murdered on sight.

I’m glad you can see why I wouldn’t see it that way, because I don’t! Why don’t you think Gazans are being murdered on sight? You say yourself snipers are 1000 yards away and can’t determine who is who when they kill someone on sight.

 

[aix_xpert]

I’m glad you can see why I wouldn’t see it that way, because I don’t! Why don’t you think Gazans are being murdered on sight? You say yourself snipers are 1000 yards away and can’t determine who is who when they kill someone on sight.

Maybe they should start wearing yellow armbands.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Maybe they should start wearing yellow armbands.

Or even a star, that would be better.