GOT 5-31
- Thread starter Cowpoke
- Start date
Agree, they are in position to finish the season strong. Part of my interest I'm sure is this is the first time since season two for me that the show has been ahead of the books. Since GRRM doesn't seem that interesting in finishing up the books I would just as soon wait until the show wraps up for the final two books.
They did a much better job of interweaving the stories tonight. Focused on beyond the wall but still advancing the other plots.
Loved the Dani and Tyrion scene. Have been waiting five years for that moment. Tremendous potential in that pairing.
Theon finally told Sansa her brothers are alive. Plus dumbass Ramsey wants to go out and play in the snow. I had always assumed next week would be the traditional episode nine big battle this time at Winterfell. Now it looks like it may be smaller and maybe the demise of Ramsey. Still waiting for a payoff of Brienna hanging around all season.
Arya's finally going to start doing something.
Not much in Kings Landing except Kevin Lannister is back and Cersie is getting really pissed. Littlefinger is still lurking but unseen this weeks. Expect a payoff in week ten.
Nothing from Drone but do we really care at this point.
They did a much better job of interweaving the stories tonight. Focused on beyond the wall but still advancing the other plots.
Loved the Dani and Tyrion scene. Have been waiting five years for that moment. Tremendous potential in that pairing.
Theon finally told Sansa her brothers are alive. Plus dumbass Ramsey wants to go out and play in the snow. I had always assumed next week would be the traditional episode nine big battle this time at Winterfell. Now it looks like it may be smaller and maybe the demise of Ramsey. Still waiting for a payoff of Brienna hanging around all season.
Arya's finally going to start doing something.
Not much in Kings Landing except Kevin Lannister is back and Cersie is getting really pissed. Littlefinger is still lurking but unseen this weeks. Expect a payoff in week ten.
Nothing from Drone but do we really care at this point.
What an awesome episode. I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us how that couldn't have stacked up to the books yadda yadda yadda, but that kind of episode is exactly what the show has over the books: the crazy spectacle.
As someone said, the scene between Tyrion and Daenerys was great even before the final battle. That's something we've been waiting on for years.
That battle was so well done, though. In a pretty short period of time, they introduced some specific threats, gave us a little intrigue and hope with the sword (I assume that means Valyrian steel can kill a WW, along with dragonglass; we'll have to start reminding ourselves where all those remaining swords are), and finished it off with some quiet horror. Really impressive.
As someone said, the scene between Tyrion and Daenerys was great even before the final battle. That's something we've been waiting on for years.
That battle was so well done, though. In a pretty short period of time, they introduced some specific threats, gave us a little intrigue and hope with the sword (I assume that means Valyrian steel can kill a WW, along with dragonglass; we'll have to start reminding ourselves where all those remaining swords are), and finished it off with some quiet horror. Really impressive.
Makes sense that Valyrian steel would, like Dragon glass it's created by intense heat within the earth. I'm guessing the dragons can also kill them.
According to the wiki, there are only about 10 Valyrian steel weapons that we know the location of. I'm pretty sure we've only seen 4 on the show: swords carried by Jon, Brienne, Tommen (the latter 2 made from the melted down sword of Eddard Stark) and the assassin's dagger that started the whole thing off, currently possessed by Baelish. Sam's dad also supposedly has one.
In the books, Sam was researching the WW, in the library of Castle Black. He found a reference to "Dragon Steel" being able to kill a WW. Sam and Jon theorized that Dragon Steel might be Valyrian Steel, but GRRM has not confirmed/disproven that information to this point (just hasn't gotten that far in the books yet). I always assumed that it was the case that Valyrian steel was able to kill the WW, because it just makes sense. It has always been clear that Valyrian steel is very special and very rare. That would mean a lot more to the story if VS was more than just a sharper/stronger version of what everyone else is armed with.
In any case, it was great to get some form of confirmation with last night's episode. The entire episode was really really enjoyable. I thought the giant was awesome, and I am pretty excited that he is going to end up south of the wall (like in DWD). I figured that part of the story would be cut by HBO.
Any thoughts on Sam's conversation with Ollie? I figured they were trying to lay the groundwork for Ollie to feel like he was justified in turning against Jon. But, I didn't really see how Ollie could come away with that feeling based on the conversation.
On Mormont.... Looks like he is going to be present in the fighting pit when things suddenly take a crazy turn in Mereen (purposely trying not to spoil for non-readers). My guess is that after those events, Tyrion will take the role that Selmy took in the books (since HBO killed off Selmy). I do think that brings up an interesting point regarding the books. We all know that Tyrion is currently trying to make his way to Dani. Assuming he gets there, I would expect a lot of friction between him and Selmy. That is something that I had not thought about before.
BJ, I got the opposite impression from the conversation with Ollie and Sam. Sam said that a man sometimes has to make a decision and do what he knows is right despite what others may think. Sam was obviously talking about Jon, but Ollie could certainly take that lesson and apply it to himself. We haven't seen Melisandre since Stannis sent her away, right? Based on the conversation, I assumed the show was setting up Ollie to put Jon in the place where he is at the end of book 5. And if Melisandre left Stannis and started making her way back to the Wall (maybe to try her smoke baby mojo again with Jon?), all those relevant players could be in the right spot for the beginning of season 6.
@cornichon
I can see your point with Ollie. I figured that I wasn't interpreting the conversation correctly (based on what they seem to be setting Ollie up for). I thought Mel was still with Stannis. They had friction over Shireen, but did I miss that he sent her away?
What you say makes sense if I am mistaken about him sending her away. If not, it is going to be very interesting to see what happens with Jon/Ollie and how it compares to the end of DWD. I can see HBO ending the season with Jon in limbo (like he is at the end of Book 5), but if M is not around, HBO has fewer options as to where they go with Jon's story.
I can see your point with Ollie. I figured that I wasn't interpreting the conversation correctly (based on what they seem to be setting Ollie up for). I thought Mel was still with Stannis. They had friction over Shireen, but did I miss that he sent her away?
What you say makes sense if I am mistaken about him sending her away. If not, it is going to be very interesting to see what happens with Jon/Ollie and how it compares to the end of DWD. I can see HBO ending the season with Jon in limbo (like he is at the end of Book 5), but if M is not around, HBO has fewer options as to where they go with Jon's story.
Stannis sent Melisandre away from him, but I guess that could just mean "get out of my tent for the moment." I'm just making an educated guess given the events of book 5 and (what most people assume to be) the need for M to be at the Wall.
Also, to follow up on a conversation from a couple weeks ago, I'm assuming the conversation between Sam and Stannis, along with Sam getting the crap kicked out of him for stopping an attempted rape, will be what pushes Sam to the Citadel now.
Also, to follow up on a conversation from a couple weeks ago, I'm assuming the conversation between Sam and Stannis, along with Sam getting the crap kicked out of him for stopping an attempted rape, will be what pushes Sam to the Citadel now.
Kind of crazy to think this is a moment that has been building since the first book came out, the start of the real war. The Ice King basically made every other villain in the book look plain and non-threatening in one season.
Yeah, which has kinda been an underlying point, that all this squabbling and Westerose in fighting is completely irrelevant. I love that the show gave us a sneak peek at what kind of hell is coming.
I'm interested in seeing how the walking army plans on getting over the wall.
When the king came down and starred raising his arms,I thought he was going to freeze the sea for his army to chase the humans.
Yeah, we've always known the others were the biggest threat but this was the first time it was truly driven home for me. I've always liked the political stuff in GOT more than the fantasy stuff and what Dany is doing. In the back of my mind I've always known the others were the huge threat but after last night's episode I was like yeah this other stuff really is kind of pointless. Watching the NW give Jon a hard time after what we've seen is going to be hard as a viewer.
I'm a guy who think books do it better 99% of the time (not just in GOT) but last night was a moment I'm not sure you could have done as well in the books.
I'm a guy who think books do it better 99% of the time (not just in GOT) but last night was a moment I'm not sure you could have done as well in the books.
That will be interesting in both book and show. In the books, they have made more about the wall being more than just a physical barrier and there being some kind of magic that prevents evil (wites and WW) from crossing over to the south. They haven't made as much of a point of that in the show, but it would be easy to add in.
I would think that without Jon's leadership, the NW/Wildling/Queen's men mix is likely to dissolve into chaos and pretty much leave the wall defenseless. Maybe they start streaming in through the Castle Black tunnel. That would at least give the Westerosi people some chance to mount a defense. There would be no way to defend the entire length of the wall. Even with all the dragonglass, Valyrian steel blades and dragons available in the world.
I thought the same thing. I was just waiting on him to start making an ice bridge to attack Jon.
So who was the hooded guy in the boat that took Jon back to the ships? For some reason that guy stood out to me.
So bit of an interesting tidbit. The books are called Fire and Ice.
So what if the Night King is the one who brings Jon back to life? I wonder if Cold hands was brought back to life as a wight. Then the Three Eyed Crow or tree guy with the help of the Children of the Forrest are able cast a spell or something to make him stop doing as the Night Kings beckons. I wonder if something similar will happen with Jon and Bran then is the one who saves him from the Night King? Or Bran can't save Jon and Dani and Jon battle it out. Dragons vs Cold undead. I bet it is the red priestess but kind of an interesting theory that is out there.
I thought the same thing. I kept waiting for him to pull back the hood and reveal he was a whitewalker. The way they had position him so that all you saw was the back of the hooded head just setting very still in the front of the boot.
A GREAT moment(s) in an episode full of highlights!
I was thinking, "Well, they're, screwed now," and five seconds later Jon is standing there with an expression of "Hey man, that's enough already!"
This guy's articles are always worth a read, especially in light of this awesome last episode:
http://grantland.com/hollywood-pros...f-the-nights-king-the-wights-and-dragonglass/
http://grantland.com/hollywood-pros...f-the-nights-king-the-wights-and-dragonglass/
In your guys opinion do you think Bran could control all three dragons like the tree guy can control a flock of ravens? I just wonder if maybe the three headed dragon isn't Dani, Jon, and Tyrion but in a different way then dragon riders. Maybe they each have a part to play in saving the realm but Brann is the one who will bring the dragons under control so they can be used against the wights and WW. Maybe Jon and Dani marry and Tyrion advises them. I just wonder if Brann controlling all three dragons at the same time was even possible.
I'm not going to say that Bran will not be able to warg into dragons and control them, although I am dubious as to whether that will be the case.
However, one flaw in your hypothesis is getting the dragons from Essos to Westeros. It does not seem likely that they could be chained up and transported by boat. They are getting too big and the boat would end up on fire. It seems to me that the only way they get to Westeros will be if someone in Essos figures out a way to control them. From what we know, it is realistic that Dani will ride Drogon and have some amount of control over him. Things become more complicated with the other two. I suppose they could be freed from their chains and just follow Dani/Drogon, but I think it is more likely that someone will figure out a way to control them before they cross the Narrow Sea.
My point is that they are likely to be under some form of control before they even get close to Bran.
Lots of interesting discussion.
I don't have much to add except that this episode was outstanding in every respect.
The cinematography and production value of this is off the charts amazing and so far beyond any TV show I've ever seen.
In my opinion it's better than movies with higher cgi budgets because in GOT, they can't over-rely on computer effects and still have to use great sets, costuming, lighting and shooting. It gives it so much more of a "real" quality.
Obviously there is a ton of cgi still but it's used more judiciously than say in a stupid transformers movie or even in the Hobbit movies. Too much cgi becomes numbing. This show delivers.
I don't have much to add except that this episode was outstanding in every respect.
The cinematography and production value of this is off the charts amazing and so far beyond any TV show I've ever seen.
In my opinion it's better than movies with higher cgi budgets because in GOT, they can't over-rely on computer effects and still have to use great sets, costuming, lighting and shooting. It gives it so much more of a "real" quality.
Obviously there is a ton of cgi still but it's used more judiciously than say in a stupid transformers movie or even in the Hobbit movies. Too much cgi becomes numbing. This show delivers.
@Been Jammin
I see the point on bringing the dragons over even if Brann controlled them for the journey he would have to warg into them for the whole trip to keep them under control and I don't think that would work. I agree Dani will be able to ride Drogon it is the other two that makes me wonder how they will get to Westeros. Also how does Jon get to Esso. I guess there are two books still but Tyrion had a whole book to get to Dani and still hasn't (in the books) so it makes me wonder how Jon could get over there and to Dani so fast.
I am so ready for Sunday night already.
I see the point on bringing the dragons over even if Brann controlled them for the journey he would have to warg into them for the whole trip to keep them under control and I don't think that would work. I agree Dani will be able to ride Drogon it is the other two that makes me wonder how they will get to Westeros. Also how does Jon get to Esso. I guess there are two books still but Tyrion had a whole book to get to Dani and still hasn't (in the books) so it makes me wonder how Jon could get over there and to Dani so fast.
I am so ready for Sunday night already.
Someone thinks he's suddenly a dragon vet too and understands all matters of dragon transportation and logistics.
Terrible and magical shit happens! Dragons vaporize white walkers! Kneel before the Mother of Dragons.
Sit back shut up and let the flow happen!
Obviously, I am just guessing on all of this, but I am not convinced that Jon will make his way to Essos. As you mentioned, a lot would happen to him before he gets there, and Martin would seemingly need to go to 8 books if he is going to get Jon over there and then bring him back to Westeros for the endgame.
What we have to remember, is that GRRM has introduced other possible ways to control the dragons into his story.
-supposedly, there is a book with secret info about dragons hidden in a vault beneath the Citadel in Oldtown. We know that one of the Maesters-in-training stole a key to a vault and gave it to a faceless man, who killed him and is now impersonating him. Tyrion thinks about that book in one of his DWD chapters and wonders if there might be a copy somewhere in Essos. He thinks the only copy in Westeros is the one at the Citadel.
-One of Theon's uncles (I get them confused) has a horn that supposedly controls dragons. When someone blew it, he died, but what if someone figures out a way to use it without perishing? Will it really control the dragons?
-I have seen speculation that Tyrion actually has Targaryean blood, and speculation that one of the 2 chained dragons will die in the next book. Maybe only 2 of them cross the narrow sea.
-Arya is in Bravos. Maybe she could warg into one of them.
-There could be any number of other things that we have read about that could control them. Maybe the priest of Rhllor (Moquaro?) who is on his way to Dani, will have some power over them. Maybe the ArchMaester, who left the Citadel to find Dani, knows something. Maybe there is something I am forgetting.
Oh I didn't know there might be speculation that one of the chained dragons dies. That would really bring things together IMO. Also great point on Arya man if she becomes a dragon rider then she will be my favorite character in the series for sure (well other then Ned of course). I totally forgot about the horn one of the uncles has and the other uncle is headed to Dani so maybe that will factor in. Also with the possibility of them casting one of his uncles maybe that is the key to getting the dragons to Westeros.
I just forget so much with waiting a couple years between books. One of the reasons I love this discussion group we have on here.
I just forget so much with waiting a couple years between books. One of the reasons I love this discussion group we have on here.
Supposedly Mance found the Horn of Jaramun (Jaramun was supposedly the king of the wildlings when the wall was constructed), and opted not to use it to destroy the wall. The horn was burned by Melisandre in the same fire that burned Rattleshirt (who she had substituted for Mance).
Obviously GRRM has some master plan to bring all these stories together. Quite honestly to date the Bran storyline has been the most boring and pointless to me but with the emergence of the whitewalkers and the role of fire I can see where his whole warg storyline does begin to take on meaning. Also Brandon might not need to control all three dragons. One at the right time might be the key. As for getting the Dragons across the narrow sea we have two books to do that and more and more I think all this is leading not to a battle for the iron throne but a battle for survival of mankind at the wall. Everyone ends up there. Whomever save mankind also gains the iron throne or something along that line. Remember the books are called "Fire and Ice"
Worth noting too is that Ayra has also shown warg ability as to the dire wolfs. She has not necessary been physically near the dire wolfs at the time . Add in her training with the many face gods and you could she how she could assume any identity so her potential role is wide open.
Worth noting too is that Ayra has also shown warg ability as to the dire wolfs. She has not necessary been physically near the dire wolfs at the time . Add in her training with the many face gods and you could she how she could assume any identity so her potential role is wide open.
I like the idea of Bran controlling the dragons or warging into one. Didn't a character somewhere, sometime predict he wouldn't walk again, but he would fly...
Good point it was the tree guy (I know he has a name but I didn't pay that much attention) when they arrived at the cave at the end of last season.
That was the 3 eyed Crow who said it (the guy that is teaching Bran how to use his warging abilities). Bran has already warged into ravens, and ravens are closely tied to the Children of the Forest and the Weirwood trees, so that may be what the 3 eyed crow was referring to. Of course, we know that there was a wildling skin-changer who controlled an eagle. But dragons are not birds, so we don't know if it is likely to happen or not.
Well sounds like GRRM is finally ready to buckle down and get Winds of Winter down before season 6 of GOT. I like how he is talking in this interview compared to the ones in the past. I fully get he wanted to relish in the fame he earned from the books a bit. I like though how he is cutting back interviews and apperances. Also him not writing an episode for GOT in season 6 is good news IMO. I just hope he gets this series done in 7 books. You guys think the last book will take as long as the ones before? I just would think he would know how he wants it to end and not putting in so much fluff while advancing other character plot lines wouldn't take as long to write.
Here is the article I read today. GRRM on Winds of Winter.
Here is the article I read today. GRRM on Winds of Winter.
