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What I read is Dean will be splitting his time between Oklahoma and Campbell.
I think this has a lot to do with Guerrero - for Dean at least. But it's a clear message we need to build the building and fund the rtc. I was wondering if we could build some apartments or even a dorm like facility in the new building? The biggest expense for a kid out of school is room and board. If you took the living quarters off the table, maybe it becomes a lot less expensive to fund guy's.
Just spit balling
Wrassler, you are right. Coach Smith has some fantastic strengths, but he has demonstrated some very important weaknesses. One would be what has happened to the cowboy wrestling club over the last 10 years and his not being more assertive with the administration to keep pace with the programs that are now winning NCAA championships over the last 10 years. I hope that we catch up but much of this will be up to Coach Smith, the administration and all cowboy wrestling fans ( we need more).I think you could be right about Eric Guerrero and Dean, but whatever happened seems to have developed pretty quickly. Derek Fix told Pistols Firing 3 weeks ago that Dean would be wrestling at the US Open. And as recently as a couple of days before the US Open began, the OSU twitter account tweeted that Dean would be wrestling at 65 kg.
And I like your spit balling idea, we need more of that - people thinking creatively. But we are way way behind many schools when it comes to developing a strategy and incentives. Just one example - I read that the PSU club not only pays their athletes a salary, they also pay for their medical insurance as well.
The blue sky optimists won't like reading this, but our staff and administration have been outsmarted and outmaneuvered for years when it comes to RTCs and recognizing their impact on the college team. Maybe finishing 13th at nationals and now this will serve as a wake up call.
I think you could be right about Eric Guerrero and Dean, but whatever happened seems to have developed pretty quickly. Derek Fix told Pistols Firing 3 weeks ago that Dean would be wrestling at the US Open. And as recently as a couple of days before the US Open began, the OSU twitter account tweeted that Dean would be wrestling at 65 kg.
And I like your spit balling idea, we need more of that - people thinking creatively. But we are way way behind many schools when it comes to developing a strategy and incentives. Just one example - I read that the PSU club not only pays their athletes a salary, they also pay for their medical insurance as well.
The blue sky optimists won't like reading this, but our staff and administration have been outsmarted and outmaneuvered for years when it comes to RTCs and recognizing their impact on the college team. Maybe finishing 13th at nationals and now this will serve as a wake up call.
They have been outmaneuvered by programs with larger followings and a much stronger donor base. For as good as we are and have been we have a small following and an even smaller significant donor base.
A healthy thriving RTC boils down to one thing... money. Sure the staff could be more visionary and fundraise to a specific plan/goal but it's going to be an uphill battle without a little luck from one of our power donors.
I was told RTC $$$$ is a a very real deal going against us right now by a somebody who would know first hand of this. It’s almost a bidding war for the elite elite recruits who will listen to the after you are done here and join our RTC program recruiting pitch
Well...yeah. of course.I blame Micco.
It's clear to me now that he is behind this.
Just a "coincidence" that three storied tOSU guys join the Ohio RTC immediately upon graduation. RTCs and college programs are like a glove and hand.Some great posts in this thread. It goes without saying that RTCs are now a "must have" for many top tier recruits along with modern facilities and great coaching. Having access to former elite collegiate wrestlers on a regular basis has been a huge advantage to programs with an associated RTC. For the post-college graduate, knowing that you can stay locally and be funded while you perform at the int'l level is important in the decision making process on where to attend college. You know other coaches are using it against you.
As Wrassler17 said, the problem is a failure to plan. So get together and plan. Fans should be asking for a meeting with the AD and coaches to understand their vision of how the RTC supports Cowboy wrestling, and then go fund it like the Hawkeyes are doing. Wouldn't it be nice for fans to endow one RTC wrestler a year? Or two? The positive outcome that fans can make toward your favorite team has its own rewards when you succeed.
I know my post comes across as being a cheerleader, but our community is small, and I support anything that strengthens it. I can't believe with a vision and plan that OSU cannot find a couple large donors for a worthy cause.
How is it illegal? They are just like any other college graduate, and can seek employment anywhere they choose. The NCAA cannot limit where you go to work after college. As long as there is no quid pro quo, then it isn't illegal, and I'm pretty sure there are no guarantees being given. A guarantee would be, "if you come here, we'll give you $60k a year at the RTC for a minimum of three years." That isn't happening in my estimation because it would be stupid for any coach to promise that. That's illegal. All you have to do is point out that the additional advantages of coming to xyz university include an opportunity to join a great and well funded RTC if you merit it. See former school wrestlers at the RTC for an understanding of that.I still don't see how this is legal within NCAA rules.
Let's take these two one at a time.Then you have Tom Brands say publically that top recruits cost money (scholarships) and that Iowa plays by the rules - meaning some schools don't.
The Flo guys said a few months back that no one wants to talk on record right now because it could hurt wrestling. But they seemed to think the story would break at some point.
Talent wise with what they have in the room and with AD they aren’t really behind many RTC’s besides PSU and tOSU and that’s just because of the guys on the teams or that are about to graduate at those schools. And most of the OSU guys heading to other RTC's right now wouldn't change that much.
ThanksGreat post, but a minor correction. David Taylor is with both NLWC and Titan Mercury, and I believe a couple other ones from the NLWC are as well.
Numbers they do for sure, but who's the best guy at Iowa? Probably Spencer Lee or Thomas Gilman? Daton may be better than both of them and they don't have any big guys even comparable to AD.From a numbers perspective (and talent could easily be argued) we are well behind PSU, OHSt and Iowa. We are soon to also be behind in numbers and support to places like AzSt, Mich, Corn, NCSt, UNC and possibly OU.
We need a well defined plan and goal to catch up or the gap will continue to widen.
Here’s a story from March with him listed as both. Don’t know why no one is listed. Strange.Thanks
I didn't see him or any other PSU guys on the site, so I thought maybe it was a thing where they they didn’t have NLWC guys.
http://tmwc1.com/teams/
Numbers they do for sure, but who's the best guy at Iowa? Probably Spencer Lee or Thomas Gilman? Daton may be better than both of them and they don't have any big guys even comparable to AD.
PSU and tOSU are all carried by their college guys and in tOSU's case their recent grads.
Also I personally don't believe numbers is necessarily a positive thing considering physically how small our room is and the fact it takes attention away from the college kids. I understand it makes for better workout partners, but it also takes the coaches time and puts it on the older guys instead of developing the college kids. Just my opinion.
I agree they do need a clearer plan for people to get behind though
I don’t disagreeNumbers do two things. It gives high level HS recruits more diverse and senior level guys to work with as often as they want to which is massive in the recrutiment of those types of recruits.
It also shows those recruits those programs/RTC's have the finances and ability to support several senior level guys.
I believe there are mat time restrictions 'in season', but your overall point stands. What top prospect wouldn't want to spend 5 hours a week with DT or AD or Zain or Logan.Numbers do two things. It gives high level HS recruits more diverse and senior level guys to work with as often as they want to which is massive in the recrutiment of those types of recruits.
It also shows those recruits those programs/RTC's have the finances and ability to support several senior level guys.
I don’t disagree
With that OSU still landed the top 174 in this class, the #2/3 184, have the best HWT in next years class committed, and are stacked to the deck at the lower weights. I’ll also add that the best 197 in 2020 is a borderline lock and I like our odds with the best 165.
Hasn't PSU been winning with that model?Fix, G, Wittlake, and DK are fantastic recruits but what is crazy is that isn't enough in a 3 year period to win NC's in today's environment.
Our 2018 recruiting class is ranked 18th. We aren't winning enough of the top end recruiting battles and a major reason is our lack of a well funded and thriving RTC. The hire of Fix was a good first step and he has began to make improvements but there is a ways to go and we are behind the front runners and it's hurting our chances to compete and win NC's.
Hasn't PSU been winning with that model?
Retherford was a senior this year. Nickal and Nolf juniors, Hall and Joseph a RS sophomore and sophomore.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still with you that the image of the RTC needs an overhaul, they need money, etc... and I know PSU has had a little more depth in their classes with Rasheed, Nevills, etc..., but really go back and look at it. They've had some classes where they've been outside the top 20. They've just been picking a few can't miss type recruits every year and winning with them.
Also John's always done a pretty good job of developing unheralded recruits into AA's, which can hopefully supplement for the lack of depth in these classes.
This is what Flo shows their 2017 class and 5 year cycle as. That's where I had looked at itPSU has done it with loading up on top tier talent. Maybe early on was a tad different but they have been a runaway train the last few years landing elite HS talent. Their class rankings are below.
It isn't some secret we need to recruit better. The discussion is how to achieve that and what is separating PSU, OHSt and to a degree Iowa when trying to consistently recruit the best of the best? There are a few different factors but the major one is our RTC in comparison with theirs and all that goes with them.
2013: 3
2014: 1
2015: 18 (small class. Did land VJ)
2016: 2
2017: 2
2018: 1
2019: Will again likely be #1
Before about two years ago, I take Flo's recruiting rankings with a grain of salt. IMO, prior to that time, they placed too much focus on quantity of recruits in the top 100 instead of quality. As we've seen, quality is a major component to the success that PSU and tOSU have had in recent years at nationals. So while ASU and NCST may have had 7-8 guys in the top 100, only 1-2 of those were in the top 20. Teams like PSU were getting four top 100 recruits but three of those in the top 15.This is what Flo shows their 2017 class and 5 year cycle as. That's where I had looked at it
#3 - Penn State
5 year cycle: #2, #18, #1, #6, #18