You have 3 options to DETER School violence

[tlwwake]

pick 3 of the following and why

The following are based on various things heard on both sides of the aisle. Will be interested to see which you all choose.

Raising age to buy certain types of guns
Expanding background checks
Banning assault weapons
One entry point into schools
Metal detectors
Allowing willing teachers to carry
Certain # of guards per school based on size
Making it law to lock up personal weapons
Clear backpacks
Other (insert your own choice)

 

[long-duc-dong]

You can’t fix school violence. It’s who we are now. Our society is a cesspool of fvcked up spoiled little shitheads who don’t care about human life. As long as that mindset is prevalent we’re in it for the long haul.

 

[DrunkenViking]

You can’t fix school violence. It’s who we are now. Our society is a cesspool of fvcked up spoiled little shitheads who don’t care about human life. As long as that mindset is prevalent we’re in it for the long haul.

It’s going to continue to get worse

 

[wyomingosualum]

pick 3 of the following and why

The following are based on various things heard on both sides of the aisle. Will be interested to see which you all choose.

Raising age to buy certain types of guns
Expanding background checks
Banning assault weapons
One entry point into schools
Metal detectors
Allowing willing teachers to carry
Certain # of guards per school based on size
Making it law to lock up personal weapons
Clear backpacks
Other (insert your own choice)

It’s how you get your picture all over the internet and on the news. It’s en vogue. That genie’s not going back into the bottle.

 

[inspoke]

It’s how you get your picture all over the internet and on the news. It’s en vogue. That genie’s not going back into the bottle.

This. The media talks about these events for days afterward. We won't show a drunk streaker running across an NFL football field so as not to encourage others but we give these school shooters endless days of coverage.

 

[DrunkenViking]

It’s how you get your picture all over the internet and on the news. It’s en vogue. That genie’s not going back into the bottle.

This. The media talks about these events for days afterward. We won't show a drunk streaker running across an NFL football field so as not to encourage others but we give these school shooters endless days of coverage.

I think this is overly simplistic.

IMO it comes down to valuing human life.

Something that continues to deteriorate.

 

[PokeMBA]

One on one counseling meetings with each student
Fund activities that don't limit participation to the top 10% of students in certain skills/interests
Listening groups where concerns of well being of students can be heard

Most teachers or students can tell you who are those most likely to have ill will against their fellow students

 

[Ponca Dan]

Option 4:

A). Abolish all public schools, make every school a private school.
B). Each private school determines for itself the level of academic, athletic, musical, intellectual prowess etc. it finds most important to achieve.
C). Each private school determines for itself the level of security it intends to have.
D). Parents choose the school that most fits their desires for their children.

 

[windriverrange]

Believe every school should have uniforms. Automatically demonstrates who should and shouldn’t be there.

Has to be one primary point of ingress. Need more than one for egress for fires etc.

Teachers that want to carry should be allowed to do so with proper training and follow up refresher courses.

Given the general trajectory of society, there should be a battery of tests given to these kids to access their general mental health, on a yearly basis.

Probably the most fundamental and most difficult step is monitoring social media. So many of these people (not just school shooters, but also kids that are depressed and or suicidel) telegraph their intentions, not all but many.

 

[wyomingosualum]

I think this is overly simplistic.

IMO it comes down to valuing human life.

Something that continues to deteriorate.

I'm not saying that's the only factor. Just one I thought I'd throw out there.

I wonder what kind of male role model these little assholes have had. They want attention, and by God they're going to get it.

What else makes them angry enough to do this sort of thing? There's got to be more.

 

[DrunkenViking]

I'm not saying that's the only factor. Just one I thought I'd throw out there.

I wonder what kind of male role model these little assholes have had. They want attention, and by God they're going to get it.

What else makes them angry enough to do this sort of thing? There's got to be more.

Well, I don’t know about Petrie but before him only one grew up in a household with a father

 

[SMemmett]

Option 4:

A). Abolish all public schools, make every school a private school.
B). Each private school determines for itself the level of academic, athletic, musical, intellectual prowess etc. it finds most important to achieve.
C). Each private school determines for itself the level of security it intends to have.
D). Parents choose the school that most fits their desires for their children.

Would there be private schools for kids who don't have parents or are severely impoverished or whatever situation and can't afford it? Will there be large scale charity organizations to help these children out to give them tuition money? Who runs those?

 

[SMemmett]

My 3, at this point, would be:

Better mental health services.
State mandate and funded increased security. One officer per x number of kids.

As far as a non-school fix:

Parents should be held culpable in some fashion if it's discovered guns were left unsecured.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Would there be private schools for kids who don't have parents or are severely impoverished or whatever situation and can't afford it? Will there be large scale charity organizations to help these children out to give them tuition money? Who runs those?

Of course there would be. There are lots of people like you and me who would donate to kids who needed help. Are you worried that people are so evil and callous they would let those children down? Fear not! People are kind and giving and generous with their time and resources.

 

[SMemmett]

Of course there would be. There are lots of people like you and me who would donate to kids who needed help. Are you worried that people are so evil and callous they would let those children down? Fear not! People are kind and giving and generous with their time and resources.

I don't think people are evil, I think they are indifferent especially if they don't have kids and have a vested interest within that district/school. With your proposed idea, I think we would have a very good percentage (50-60% maybe?) of tremendous world-class schools. But, I think many outside of that would be in really rough shape.

 

[osu_orangestreak]

Allow a kid to punch a bully in the face without the police bring called.

 

[imprimis]

Allow a kid to punch a bully in the face without the police bring called.

Allow teachers to fight back when threatened by students and not fear being fired for defending themselves. Our public education system has gone way too far in siding with these delinquent malcontents and their parents. It's time for the authorities to replace the inmates in controlling the asylum.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I don't think people are evil, I think they are indifferent especially if they don't have kids and have a vested interest within that district/school. With your proposed idea, I think we would have a very good percentage (50-60% maybe?) of tremendous world-class schools. But, I think many outside of that would be in really rough shape.

Kind of like it is now, eh?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Kind of like it is now, eh?

I apologize. That was a flippant remark that did not advance the conversation one iota.

I am not saying Option 4 would create educational heaven on earth. I do believe it would significantly improve conditions. Would some kids fall through the cracks? Probably, but schools would have to face the consequences of bad reputations, which is always a good thing. A marketplace of private education would be far more dynamic, experimental, creative.

I believe you are in error if you think 50% of kids would face squalid educational conditions. There are too many people like us that would not let that happen. The reason so many people are indifferent today is because they assume the government is taking care of things. Seeing the teacher walkouts across the country is evidence the government is handling things horribly. Add to that the school shootings that are happening and one can only assume the government is incapable of solving the problems. Hell, the government caused most of the problems!

 

[osuengineer]

Remove the presumption of innocence for the crime of “criminal negligence” if your gun is used in a crime and you aren’t the one pulling the trigger. The burden of proof would be on the gun owner to show how he wasn’t negligent if his weapon is used to commit a crime. Additional aspect would be this is waived if the gun is reported stolen, etc.

As a responsible gun owner, I preliminarily endorse this Sunday evening thought experiment.

 

[Alpha Poke]

I don't think people are evil, I think they are indifferent especially if they don't have kids and have a vested interest within that district/school. With your proposed idea, I think we would have a very good percentage (50-60% maybe?) of tremendous world-class schools. But, I think many outside of that would be in really rough shape.

Trade schools need to enter the equation earlier.

Adopt the Euro system that shunts the less inclined to actual career training in high school.

 

[JimmyBob]

shunts

OMG! Don't tell us he's back!

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

I’m afraid it’s just going to get worse but...

1. Protect students with armed officers/teachers
2. Limit ingress in to schools. Egress for emergencies can remain the same
3. Attempt to teach the value of human life

 

[Ponca Dan]

I don't think people are evil, I think they are indifferent especially if they don't have kids and have a vested interest within that district/school. With your proposed idea, I think we would have a very good percentage (50-60% maybe?) of tremendous world-class schools. But, I think many outside of that would be in really rough shape.

Have you read this book? I’m curious what you think of his thesis.

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/11225.html

 

[osuengineer]

Real question, not just stoking the fires:
What does a private school contribute to the solution?
Is it a different social dynamic?
Is it more freedom for the administration to put security measures in place?
Is it something intrinsic to the students feeling valued by the administration?

What is it about a private school that makes it safer than a public school?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Real question, not just stoking the fires:
What does a private school contribute to the solution?
Is it a different social dynamic?
Is it more freedom for the administration to put security measures in place?
Is it something intrinsic to the students feeling valued by the administration?

What is it about a private school that makes it safer than a public school?

Absolutely nothing about a private school guarantees it will be safer than a public school.

But what it does bring to the table is a multitude of options from which to choose.

If you as a parent want every person who steps foot on the school ground to be strip searched at the front gate, and there are enough other parents that want the same thing, then almost certainly such a school will materialize.

Parents with other priorities will locate or create schools that meet their demands.

Rather than a one-size-fits-all educational mandate handed down by some unidentified bureaucrat in a far off capitol a marketplace of private schools would exist to meet whatever demand is out there.

 

[Ostatedchi]

What is it about a private school that makes it safer than a public school?

It's the fact that they can kick disruptive students out.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Real question, not just stoking the fires:
What does a private school contribute to the solution?
Is it a different social dynamic?
Is it more freedom for the administration to put security measures in place?
Is it something intrinsic to the students feeling valued by the administration?

What is it about a private school that makes it safer than a public school?

I can only speak to my experience, but our private school requires admittance through a secure gate that’s closed until you state your business and building. On 2 occasions in the last couple of years, someone jumped the fence, both were confronted with an armed security guard in less than 30 seconds due to 100% coverage and monitoring of the perimeter 24/7. Within 30 minutes all parents were made aware of the situation and given status reports throughout the day. ALL buildings are locked from entry and one must look into a camera and speak with office before they allow entry.

Both of my boys attended that private school (Monte), but the oldest now attends one of the immersion/magnet schools. In contrast, they recently had a dude walk in off the streets (to use the bathroom). He was in the building for 15 minutes before they even found him, I believe taking a crap. We learned about it weeks later at a PTA meeting. They are trying though. They have revamped their ingress/egress standards recently, but it’s still not enough.

Fully transparency, I feel much better about my youngest at Monte, and by a very far margin. I know my post only deals with your 3rd bullet, just my personal observations.

 

[aix_xpert]

Can we start by locking the doors and having simply a secure, controlled entry point(s) to our schools? Seems to be a common practice used for securing just about anything.

 

[Been Jammin]

Can we start by locking the doors and having simply a secure, controlled entry point(s) to our schools? Seems to be a common practice used for securing just about anything.

I can't speak to the schools that have had shootings, but every school my kids have attended/currently attend, has had this in place (at least in theory). When visitors come to the school, there is one front door. You have to push a button and talk to a person in the main office to get buzzed in. Pretty sure they all have security cameras that allow the office to see who is standing out there prior to entry.

However, there are a lot of holes that can be exploited.

When kids are being dropped off in the morning, they have to walk by an armed officer on the way in, and most of them enter through the same entrance.

But, when kids are dropped off early (like for band/orchestra/drill team etc), there is no officer on duty yet, and some of them enter through different entrances that are unlocked. (i.e. the band room has its own entrance).

There are multiple exits, that are not alarmed. If someone bangs on one, teacher/students will open it to let them in, without asking questions.

At certain times of the day (i.e. lunch), a lot of kids will use those exits. If a shooter wanted to, he could just wait for one of those doors to open, and carry his weapon into the building, completely bypassing security.

My kids' HS has about 10 different buildings. I'm pretty sure that only the main building has a locked door that visitors have to be buzzed through. The other 9 buildings are unlocked, and kind of have to be since the students are going from building to building between classes and only have a few minutes to get to their next class.

Locking the front door seems like an obvious fix, but it is one that will be easily bypassed by a motivated shooter. In the case of the Santa Fe, Texas shooter, he wore a trench coat to school every day. Without metal detectors, he would have walked right in with the 2 guns under his trench coat, and no one would have given him a second look.

 

[BvillePoker]

You have to fix the fundamentally flawed education system that creates students that feel like there is nothing good for them out there in the world when they get out of school and they have no self worth if they are not going to college.

 

[Been Jammin]

pick 3 of the following and why

The following are based on various things heard on both sides of the aisle. Will be interested to see which you all choose.

Raising age to buy certain types of guns
Expanding background checks
Banning assault weapons
One entry point into schools
Metal detectors
Allowing willing teachers to carry
Certain # of guards per school based on size
Making it law to lock up personal weapons
Clear backpacks
Other (insert your own choice)

Raising age to buy certain types of guns
Allowing willing teachers to carry
Certain # of guards per school based on size

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I think a machine gun nest at the end of hallways affords a great line of fire. Some towers - maybe 4 or 5 around the typical school - are great for really covering the grounds. Of course, some claymores at least 15 or 20' outside of playground equipment really slows down assailants, too.

 

[Alpha Poke]

I think a machine gun nest at the end of hallways affords a great line of fire. Some towers - maybe 4 or 5 around the typical school - are great for really covering the grounds. Of course, some claymores at least 15 or 20' outside of playground equipment really slows down assailants, too.

That's about as close to rational as you get.

You're all the worst parts of a crazy broad.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

That's about as close to rational as you get.

You're all the worst parts of a crazy broad.

But you're the best, you little wildcat. Let's go shoot some guns. I'd love watching you jiggle from the recoil.

 

[Alpha Poke]

But you're the best, you little wildcat. Let's go shoot some guns. I'd love watching you jiggle from the recoil.

You flirt weird.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

You flirt weird.

That's nothing. You should see me harass.

 

[JimmyBob]

You flirt weird.

When he offers a video of self-polishing his Summer's Eve nozzle, you're in trouble.