Written by a drag queen (aka a groomer)

2012Bearcat

MegaPoke is insane
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Since you apparently don't want to give a yes or no answer for whatever reason, I will just assume based upon your posts so far that you do believe a person can be made gay.

I believe this is one of the vital presuppositions in this whole debate that causes such a division of opinion between people. Especially if a person who believes one can be made gay also believes being gay (or bi, or transgender) is disgusting, perverted, and evil.

I've answered your question twice giving you an affirmative both time. Are you so dense you can't accept anything but yes or no?
What people do in their bedrooms is completely up to them but when you make your sexual preferences public those preferences are free to be criticized and ridiculed. Don't want to be criticized or ridiculed, keep your perversions in your bedroom and out of the public.
 
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my_2cents

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Its interesting that you didn't commit to a side, but at least you responded.
I absolutely did commit to a side . . .
What I tend to "believe" based solely on my own experiences and discussions with my homosexual/bisexual friends (and books/studies I've read that discuss this topic) is that someone cannot be made gay, or bi.
I posted what I believe. Just as you posted what you believe.

In addition, something like bi-sexuality would imply that in some people, being straight or being gay is more about a learned behavior of being sexually gratified by a partner or partners, rather than by a particular sex, again providing indicators that sexual attraction is learned.
Why would being bi-sexual imply what you claim? Couldn't someone who is bi just be naturally attracted to both sexes?

That said, transgenderism, of which cross-dressing more closely applies, is a different topic vs. hetero- and homo-sexual relations.
Not if someone claims cross-dressing can be a means of teaching children to live queerly and introduce queer pedagogy.

Is it also your belief that people can both be made transgender and born transgender?
 

my_2cents

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I've answered your question twice giving you an affirmative both time.
No you didn't. You never said yes or no or maybe. I literally told you I didn't want to misrepresent your position and you continue playing your game. Whatever, I don't care.

What people do in their bedrooms is completely up to them but when you make your sexual preferences public those preferences are free to be criticized and ridiculed.
Why should a homosexual couple be open to ridicule simply because they don't hide in the closet and dare to make their sexual preference public just as you do as a straight man?

Don't want to be criticized or ridiculed, keep your perversions in your bedroom and out of the public.
There is that word from you. "Perversions."

Again, this goes back to what I posted above . . .
I believe this is one of the vital presuppositions in this whole debate that causes such a division of opinion between people. Especially if a person who believes one can be made gay also believes being gay (or bi, or transgender) is disgusting, perverted, and evil.
 

Alpha Woke

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I absolutely did commit to a side . . .

I posted what I believe. Just as you posted what you believe.


Why would being bi-sexual imply what you claim? Couldn't someone who is bi just be naturally attracted to both sexes?


Not if someone claims cross-dressing can be a means of teaching children to live queerly and introduce queer pedagogy.

Is it also your belief that people can both be made transgender and born transgender?

The current push for gay conversion therapy by the left has been very effective.

 

my_2cents

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The current push for gay conversion therapy by the left has been very effective.
Or perhaps a shifting of societal belief and acceptance is causing this? Young people no longer feel that they have to hide who they are. And this is probably really what bothers you, am I right?

btw, since interracial attraction began to be more accepted in our society and lost it's stigma, we have seen a rise in interracial relationships. Was that too the result of an evil conspiracy by the left?
 
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aix_xpert

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I absolutely did commit to a side . . .
"Honestly, I don't know and I don't believe any of us know for a fact."

That doesn't sound like committing to a side, but ok.

Why would being bi-sexual imply what you claim? Couldn't someone who is bi just be naturally attracted to both sexes?
Possibly, but again, its more common in certain environments which would imply that there is environmental influences at play. Otherwise, that mentality would be much more evenky dispersed across all populations, and it clearly isn't. I note that your reply failed to touch this portion of my argument, which is the key tenet of why I believe that environmental factors play a significant role in one's sexuality.
Not if someone claims cross-dressing can be a means of teaching children to live queerly and introduce queer pedagogy.

Is it also your belief that people can both be made transgender and born transgender?

Transgenderism is a completely different topic to me. Its my biggest issue with the LGBT community. I am a full-throated supporter of the LGB community. Love who you want. Marry who you want. Your sex life is none of my business. Whether by nurture or nature, LGB is a behavior, and I'm a full believer that being free means that I have no right to interfere in your behavioral choices as long as they don't impede or intercede my own freedoms. But transgenderism is biological. Whether driven by gender dysphoria (born that way) or simply societal/social media acceptance (made that way), society is being asked to disregard biological science in order to promote an alternate reality. And again, from a behavioral standpoint, I don't care if a guy wants to wear a dress, or even chop his penis off to fit his desired mold. Again, that doesn't interfere with my personal freedoms. But when I'm asked to ignore the biological advantages of testosterone, so that a transgender can compete against biological females, or when I'm told that we should accept sterilization surgeries (which gender reassigment surgeries are) for children without parental consent because a teacher or counselor pushed their own ideology upon them, then I draw the line and refuse to support such lunacy.

And finally, you raise the point of queer pedogogy. Can you tell me what queer is? I know what LGBT is and who fits into those classifications. But I've asked more than once on this board, and I've yet to have a liberal tell me what queer actual represents that doesn't already fall into one of the LGBS (Straight) paradigms, or the Transgender paradigm. Since you chose to use the terminology in your response. Please provide your definition of queer pedagogy.
 

Alpha Woke

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Or perhaps a shifting of societal belief and acceptance is causing this? Young people no longer feel that they have to hide who they are. And this is probably really what bothers you, am I right?

btw, since interracial attraction began to be more accepted in our society and lost it's stigma, we have seen a rise in interracial relationships. Was that too the result of an evil conspiracy by the left?

That’s the perspective of someone willing to ignore logic.
 

my_2cents

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"Honestly, I don't know and I don't believe any of us know for a fact." That doesn't sound like committing to a side, but ok
Because I also believe that none of us know for a fact? Do you know the answer to that question for a fact or is it just your opinion?

I also gave you my opinion.

Possibly,
Yeah.

its more common in certain environments which would imply that there is environmental influences at play.
Your environmental argument is based on your presupposition that someone can be influenced into being gay. This goes back to my original question. If you believe someone can be made gay, then clearly you are going to believe they can be influenced to be gay.

It could simply be that the environments you speak of are more open to homosexuals than other environments, and therefore, homosexuals do not feel like they have to hide who they are in some manner. Also, there are those who enter into those environments after coming out. That environment didn't influence them.

But when I'm asked to ignore the biological advantages of testosterone, so that a transgender can compete against biological females, or when I'm told that we should accept sterilization surgeries (which gender reassigment surgeries are) for children without parental consent because a teacher or counselor pushed their own ideology upon them, then I draw the line and refuse to support such lunacy.
I agree with your position on both of these topics. I have no problem though with gender reassignment surgery with parent consent and a formal medical process leading up to the surgery.

However, I didn't ask about you position on these two topics. I simply asked if it was also your belief that people can both be made transgender and born transgender. So is it?

Please provide your definition of queer pedagogy.
Queer pedagogy is exploring "being queer" and how such identities interact in an educational context.

Queer is a broad term for those who are not hetrosexual or cisgender.
 

2012Bearcat

MegaPoke is insane
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No you didn't. You never said yes or no or maybe. I literally told you I didn't want to misrepresent your position and you continue playing your game. Whatever, I don't care.
I gave you credit for being able to understand the nuances of English, my mistake
Why should a homosexual couple be open to ridicule simply because they don't hide in the closet and dare to make their sexual preference public just as you do as a straight man?
Yuo don't see straight people making their sexual preferences public now do you? When introducing yourself to people do you tell the you are straight? No one gives a shit what type of sex you like provided it's legal. The LGBTQ community does this because they demand everyone to approve of their lifestyle choices. People do not have to approve of anything.
There is that word from you. "Perversions."

Again, this goes back to what I posted above . . .
There are all kinds of perversions. You may like to be tied up, smothered in baby oil and have vegetables put in places they shouldn't be. I don't care but I also don't want to hear about it either. See how simple that is.
 

my_2cents

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should we accept tattoos
With parent consent, yes.

I don't agree with the drinking age being set at 21. Why can an American go fight a war but not have a drink? Makes no sense to me.

I have no problem with lowering the age for alcohol consumption, similar to many European countries.

smoking for young people?
I think the age of 18 to purchase cigarettes is fair.

btw, none of these examples you asked about have anything to do with who someone is.
 

aix_xpert

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I agree with your position on both of these topics. I have no problem though with gender reassignment surgery with parent consent and a formal medical process leading up to the surgery.
So you believe a parent has the right to sterilize their minor child if they think (or its their ideology) that the child is suffering from gender dysphoria? Because that's what you are saying above.

However, I didn't ask about you position on these two topics. I simply asked if it was also your belief that people can both be made transgender and born transgender. So is it?
Was I not clear when I stated: "Whether driven by gender dysphoria (born that way) or simply societal/social media acceptance (made that way),"? I believe that gender dysphoria is real and you are born that way. I also believe that there is a vast number of individuals who simply want to be transgender because its the 'hip' thing to do. Why else are some people 'gender fluid'? But again, I don't care as long as their adults and its their prerogative to behave that way. But promoting this idea that men can get pregnant, or that a male who transitioned to a female at age 20 doesn't have biological athletic advantages over biologic women is moronic.

Queer pedagogy is exploring "being queer" and how such identities interact in an educational context.

Queer is a broad term for those who are not hetrosexual or cisgender.
So a queer individual has no independent standing that didn't already fall under one of the other LGBT categories, correct? If not, can you give me an example of a non-LBGT, queer person. Otherwise, I have no need to provide a independent position on "queers" as they already fall under one of my prior statements.
 

LAY THE WOODY

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I believe parents should be allowed to elect gender reassignment surgery for their child if they and their child believe it is what is best for them. I also believe there should be a formal medical process that occurs before the surgery.

I do not believe such surgeries should occur without parent consent and without the formal process.


So you do have the same opinion about those who are transgender. Thanks for your answer.


Someone who says their sexuality and gender does not fit into the other identities. For example, a person would say, I'm not gay, I'm not bi, I'm not straight, I'm queer. But someone who is gay may also use the term queer. Hence it's broad nature.

btw, I never asked you to provide an independent position on queer individuals.
Yer a sick person.
 

my_2cents

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So you believe a parent has the right to sterilize their minor child if they think (or its their ideology) that the child is suffering from gender dysphoria?
I believe parents should be allowed to elect gender reassignment surgery for their child if they and their child believe it is what is best for them. I also believe there should be a formal medical process that occurs before the surgery.

I do not believe such surgeries should occur without parent consent and without the formal process.

I believe that gender dysphoria is real and you are born that way. I also believe that there is a vast number of individuals who simply want to be transgender because its the 'hip' thing to do.
So I guess this means yes, you have the same belief. What is confusing about your answer is that not all who are transgender experience gender dysphoria.

So a queer individual has no independent standing that didn't already fall under one of the other LGBT categories, correct? If not, can you give me an example of a non-LBGT, queer person.
Someone who says their sexuality and gender does not fit into the other identities. For example, a person would say, I'm not gay, I'm not bi, I'm not straight, I'm queer. But someone who is gay may also use the term queer. Hence it's broad nature.

btw, I never asked you to provide an independent position on queer individuals.
 

aix_xpert

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Someone who says their sexuality and gender does not fit into the other identities. For example, a person would say, I'm not gay, I'm not bi, I'm not straight, I'm queer. But someone who is gay may also use the term queer. Hence it's broad nature.
In other words, in a world where everyone strives to be unique, we created a 'special' term for those who fit into existing categories but don't want to be labeled by those categories.

There are only 4 options: Abstinent, sex with those with the same biological parts (gay), sex with those with the opposite biological parts (straight), or sex with both (bi). Unless of course you want to start adding in things like bestiality, pedophilia, or necrophilia into the classifications and call those queers.
 

my_2cents

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In other words, in a world where everyone strives to be unique, we created a 'special' term for those who fit into existing categories but don't want to be labeled by those categories.
No, those who are queer created that term. I didn't create the term and I doubt you did too.

btw, you might have missed it because I had to edit my post after further reflection. I am going to assume your answer was yes, you believe individuals are both made and born transgender. What was confusing about your answer is that not all who are transgender experience gender dysphoria.
 

aix_xpert

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No, those who are queer created that term. I didn't create the term and I doubt you did too.
I didn't claim to create the term nor claim that you did. Just called it what it was. A made up word to give a creative label to want to bucketed under the current labels.

btw, you might have missed it because I had to edit my post after further reflection. I am going to assume your answer was yes, you believe individuals are both made and born transgender. What was confusing about your answer is that not all who are transgender experience gender dysphoria.

I agree. Being born with the thought that your biological body doesn't match your mental image of gender is the definition of "gender dysphoria". The fact you agree that not all transgenders suffer from gender dysphoria demonstrates that for some it is 'learned' and thus influenceable.
 

my_2cents

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Being born with the thought that your biological body doesn't match your mental image of gender is the definition of "gender dysphoria".
Your definition of gender dysphoria is incorrect. It is not simply being born with the thought that one is transgender. The key element of gender dysphoria is clinically significant distress.

Gender dysphoria "refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity."

"Some people who are transgender will experience gender dysphoria."

What is Gender Dysphoria?

"Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind."

Gender Dysphoria
 

aix_xpert

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Your definition of gender dysphoria is incorrect. It is not simply being born with the thought that one is transgender. The key element of gender dysphoria is clinically significant distress.

Gender dysphoria "refers to psychological distress that results from an incongruence between one’s sex assigned at birth and one’s gender identity."

"Some people who are transgender will experience gender dysphoria."

What is Gender Dysphoria?
No offense, but the only difference between your definition and mine is that its really describing the mental trauma vs. just the belief. Otherwise, "incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity" and "that your biological body doesn't match your mental image of gender" is the same thing. Sorry I didn't use a college word like Congruence.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria
"Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind."

Gender Dysphoria

I agreed. But those transgenders who don't have gender dysphoria were influenced or taught the desire to become transgender and were not "born that way".
 

LAY THE WOODY

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No offense, but the only difference between your definition and mine is that its really describing the mental trauma vs. just the belief. Otherwise, "incongruence between one's sex assigned at birth and one's gender identity" and "that your biological body doesn't match your mental image of gender" is the same thing. Sorry I didn't use a college word like Congruence.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria


I agreed. But those transgenders who don't have gender dysphoria were influenced or taught the desire to become transgender and were not "born that way".
Mental dysphoria. Has it yet been identified?
 

my_2cents

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No offense, but the only difference between your definition and mine is that its really describing the mental trauma vs. just the belief.
Well that is a significant difference.

But those transgenders who don't have gender dysphoria were influenced or taught the desire to become transgender and were not "born that way".
Again, this is not correct.

Those who don't have gender dysphoria just don't experience clinical significant distress related to being transgender.
 

aix_xpert

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Well that is a significant difference.


Again, this is not correct.

Those who don't have gender dysphoria just don't experience clinical significant distress related to being transgender.
If you're willing to risk surgery to disfigure and sterilize your body in order to change your physical gender, then you are clearly distressed. And if you were born with that way, then it is gender dysphoria.
 
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JimmyBob

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I don't know or understand the timeline on when things changed from an attitude of letting kids be kids for as long as possible (you're only a kid once in your life) to being determined to grow the kids up as soon as possible. Why on earth would anyone want a kid under 18 years old or so,to be anything but a kid? What's the rush?

Uh, we grew up in the last century when kids were kids. Has to be this century, and you're right, there's no rush.
 

my_2cents

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If you're willing to risk surgery to disfigure and sterilize your body in order to change your physical gender, then you are clearly distressed.
Again, this is not true. Someone is not diagnosed as having gender dysphoria simply because they want to have gender reassignment surgery.

Now, you may "believe" those transgender (not gender dysphoria) individuals who choose such surgery are "distressed," but that is simply your opinion. And it reveals your presuppositions about transgenderism.

And if you were born with that way, then it is gender dysphoria.
I've already given you the definition of gender dysphoria. When I asked about being made transgender, I was asking about those who are transgender, not those suffering from gender dysphoria. Two completely different terms with different definitions.
 

LAY THE WOODY

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Again, this is not true. Someone is not diagnosed as having gender dysphoria simply because they want to have gender reassignment surgery.

Now, you may "believe" those transgender (not gender dysphoria) individuals who choose such surgery are "distressed," but that is simply your opinion. And it reveals your presuppositions about transgenderism.


I've already given you the definition of gender dysphoria. When I asked about being made transgender, I was asking about those who are transgender, not those suffering from gender dysphoria. Two completely different terms with different definitions.
You are one fvcked up idiot. 🤣 God dam Almighty.
 
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aix_xpert

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Again, this is not true. Someone is not diagnosed as having gender dysphoria simply because they want to have gender reassignment surgery.

Now, you may "believe" those transgender (not gender dysphoria) individuals who choose such surgery are "distressed," but that is simply your opinion. And it reveals your presuppositions about transgenderism.


I've already given you the definition of gender dysphoria. When I asked about being made transgender, I was asking about those who are transgender, not those suffering from gender dysphoria. Two completely different terms with different definitions.
If you aren't traumatized from having the wrong body for your perceived gender, why in the world are you having surgery to change it? You don't go have surgery because its fun. You don't change your body if your happy and satisfied with it. Its a sacrifice and risk you only take if there is a perceived issue.
 

LAY THE WOODY

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If you aren't traumatized from having the wrong body for your perceived gender, why in the world are you having surgery to change it? You don't go have surgery because its fun. You don't change your body if your happy and satisfied with it. Its a sacrifice and risk you only take if there is a perceived issue.
Obviously not an issue with that idiot.
 
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my_2cents

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If you aren't traumatized from having the wrong body for your perceived gender, why in the world are you having surgery to change it? You don't go have surgery because its fun. You don't change your body if your happy and satisfied with it. Its a sacrifice and risk you only take if there is a perceived issue.
And this is the issue some transgender activists have with gender dysphoria, how it is defined and used. The conclusions that some draw from it. They argue that it pathologizes and stigmatizes transgender individuals, who simply have a variation, not a pathological problem. Essentially, it has its foundation in the binary model of gender, and this in of itself is problematic.

Suffice to say, can we both agree that one's presupposition of whether someone else can be made gay, bi, transgender (or even queer, while acknowledging your objection to this term) is a vital presupposition in these debates that causes such a division between people?
 

LAY THE WOODY

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And this is the issue some transgender activists have with gender dysphoria, how it is defined and used. The conclusions that some draw from it. They argue that it pathologizes and stigmatizes transgender individuals, who simply have a variation, not a pathological problem. Essentially, it has its foundation in the binary model of gender, and this in of itself is problematic.

Suffice to say, can we both agree that one's presupposition of whether someone else can be made gay, bi, transgender (or even queer, while acknowledging your objection to this term) is a vital presupposition in these debates that causes such a division between people?
The show got cancelled?