Wittlake
- Thread starter TheJimReaper
- Start date
I watched the match and he was aggressive and head snapping his opponent but never got the takedown in the first period. He gave up 2 takedowns in the second period but then got a defensive takedown with a leg lace turn to take the lead 5 to 4 with 25 seconds left. He then froze and almost got taken down but stepped out of it and then gave the guy another shot not reacting and gave up the takedown for the loss. He does not seem like the same wrestler physically but his greatest regression seems mentally. I remember last year many saying his losing does not change his potential. He has wrestled this way a whole year now. I was excited about his commitment to us, from Penn. St. I am no longer seeing much of a future for Wittlake. I think our young guys will take him out of the lineup after a redshirt. This could all change if he figures something out but that is looking less and less likely. He tears up inferior competition and freezes against good guys. I hope he turns it around but.
Harley, I agree.
osudog, I thought his quickness was fine - didn't seem slow to me.
He faces the same guy for 3rd place, so he's got a chance to redeem himself.
He did beat 2 guys in the wrestlebacks including Shannon is going to Iowa State. He does have Conigliaro for 3rd and a chance as you say to redeem. Plott wrestled at 79 and lost to Allar of Minnesota. Plott made some nice moves but his feet were dead and I saw 3 takedowns where Allar shot a double and Plotts feet did not move an inch. He desperately tried chest wrap rolls to defend and it did not work good for Plott. He wrestled poorly. He wrestled Dow from Wisconsin and teched him but did not look good the first period. Plott's coached constantly had to remind him to move his feet. Plott has great offense but poor defense. In the Allar match he also got in the legs very well but did not finish a high percentage of the time. I believe ability wise Plott should be in the finals now but of course isn't.
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I thought he looked good in that 2nd consi match against Shannon - seemed more aggressive. On the positive side, he has a good gas tank and good counter offense. I agree with you that his problems appear to be more mental than physical right now, like he doesn't trust his stuff anymore. He had an excellent ankle pick in HS and he doesn't even use it anymore.
Not worried about Plott at all. Classic case of a HS kid not being able to finish on a strong college guy. He gets to everyone's legs with his sweep single, including that guy. In a year he finishes all those shots and probably techs him.
Senior Greco was today also. Chandler went 0-2 at 82 kg. I think he needs to go 77 kg. Bear Hughes went 2-2 and took 5th.
He has a lot of potential if he sticks with it. He was very good at Greco in HS, but he really hasn't devoted any time to it in college.
FYI, Oklahoman Dalton Duffield is in the finals at 55 kg.
I get the positive outlook on Wittlake, but IMO it's fair to acknowledge that he's underperformed relative to expectations thus far and to ask why as the OP did. Everyone on here wants him to succeed.
He's wrestling 74 kg this weekend and has not looked overpowered. He wrestled 74 kg last month also. And it should not be a big cut for him. He gave an interview as a HS senior and said he didn't cut weight in school. Said the most he ever weighed was a little over 180.
The commentator for his match was Cliff Fretwell, a very technical guy. He said Wittlake kept trying a throw by, but that his footwork was off so that's why he couldn't get the takedown. He was very surprised when he lost.
He's wrestling 74 kg this weekend and has not looked overpowered. He wrestled 74 kg last month also. And it should not be a big cut for him. He gave an interview as a HS senior and said he didn't cut weight in school. Said the most he ever weighed was a little over 180.
The commentator for his match was Cliff Fretwell, a very technical guy. He said Wittlake kept trying a throw by, but that his footwork was off so that's why he couldn't get the takedown. He was very surprised when he lost.
I think Wittlake will be fine also but I don't think our hope for him when he signed was to be fine. Fine will not get us national titles. Plott has wrestled excellent this year and even though I don't think he wrestled good this weekend I am excited about Plott. I do hope that Wittlake gets back on track this next year to be a National Champ some time in his career with the Cowboys.
He will be better than fine. He’s got all the physical talent. He’s also in a room with probably the best technical coaching staff in college wrestling.
Wittlake lost his rematch with Conigliaro 9-4 and finished 4th. I saw 4-5 legitimate leg attacks, so he was more aggressive this time. That's a positive.
Plott won by tech 18-8 and finished 3rd (Plott's offense is sooo good).
On the freestyle vs folkstyle point - Wittlake's #6 overall ranking coming out of HS was based almost entirely on his freestyle credentials. He didn't wrestle at the national folkstyle tournaments like Super32 or the Ironman. Instead he won Fargo multiple times and was a Cadet bronze medalist. That's not to say he's bad at folkstyle - he had a close loss to Mikey Labriola at WNO and then beat Trent Hidlay at the PWC. Just means he's known more for his freestyle accolades than his folkstyle accomplishments.
Plott won by tech 18-8 and finished 3rd (Plott's offense is sooo good).
On the freestyle vs folkstyle point - Wittlake's #6 overall ranking coming out of HS was based almost entirely on his freestyle credentials. He didn't wrestle at the national folkstyle tournaments like Super32 or the Ironman. Instead he won Fargo multiple times and was a Cadet bronze medalist. That's not to say he's bad at folkstyle - he had a close loss to Mikey Labriola at WNO and then beat Trent Hidlay at the PWC. Just means he's known more for his freestyle accolades than his folkstyle accomplishments.
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For whatever reason a year in our room has not helped Wittlake a bit as a wrestler. Likely mostly Wittlake' responsibility. Last year at the Pennsylvania all star class he beat Hidlay with some ease and it was never in doubt. He has regressed after a year in the room. Hidlay will make the junior team at 86 and Wittlake is not even close to making the junior worlds at 74. I don't know this but I suspect Cael saw things that concerned him in the wrestling room with Wittlake and indicated to him we are okay if you go elsewhere ( could be the same with Marsteller). Again this is just a thought I have had since it seemed so weird with him changing his commitment over a year ago. Sanderson has outmaneuvered everyone for years in college wrestling. Also we are starting to catch up but have a long way to go to catch Penn. St. A recent example is Sanderson grey shirting mist of his number 1 recruiting class in the country this year which is unheard of.
I promise you Cael didn’t kick him to the curb. Wittlake is essentially a country kid. He felt he committed too quickly and wanted to confirm his desire for penn state. He got here and it just felt more like home.
I’m fully prepared to eat my words, but let’s see what he does after he’s in the lineup and getting consistent matches.
The kid has yet to wrestle a single dual for OSU yet. Not one.
Oh, his last 14 months of wrestling doesn't count much? I would say that is the time period which gives us the best indication of where he stands as a wrestler right now. The last 14 months indicate he is not a great prospect anymore like he was 18 months ago. I do agree in the next year he could jump levels and be a star for the Cowboys. I hope that he becomes the greatest wrestler in Cowboy history but I have not seen anything in the last 14 months to indicate that will happen.
No I don’t think the last 14 months of freestyle matter much when we are talking about a freshman who has yet to wrestle for us. Maybe the kid is an all-time bust. I have no clue. I’m just saying let’s at least let him wrestle a single dual for us before burying him and implying PSU kicked him to the curb.
I don’t think it is ever smart to be down on a kid before he competes as a freshman.
And if your expectation was he we going to be the greatest wrestler in Cowboy in history you are going to be disappointed.
Absolutely and he was just fine during his RS year. He went 16-2 losing two very close matches to two D1 starters.
You are twisting my post to your advantage I did not expect him to be the best Cowboy wrestler obviously. My point was I hope that he becomes the best possible wrestler that he can be. I did expect he would show future National Champ like performance at Oklahoma State. I did not expect he would lose twice to Phil Conigliaro at junior trials after a year in our room. Conigliaro is a good wrestler and so is Wittlake. However Conigliaro was in Wittlake's class and was rated the 76th rated recruit in the 2018 class and went to Harvard. Wittlake was rated 6th. It is freestyle wrestling but I watched both matches and Wittlake got beat in both matches because he got taken down.
This thread is still going? Kudos to Reaper for starting it and then deftly getting out before the fray ensued. 
I wanted to raise a related point and see if anyone has any thoughts on it. Disclaimer here -- I'm not piling on Wittlake, he seems like a really good kid, I'm just asking the question.
During the 2nd Conigliaro match, the camera panned out at the break and I noticed he was being cornered by both Zack & his father. I went back and looked at the Junior Open matches from last month and it was the same then. I know he's very close with his dad, but I'm not sure that's the best idea. Seems like you need to trust your coaches when you hit college.
Thoughts? Admittedly I don't look at the corners most of the time. Do fathers corner their sons in non redshirt situations? Should they?
I wanted to raise a related point and see if anyone has any thoughts on it. Disclaimer here -- I'm not piling on Wittlake, he seems like a really good kid, I'm just asking the question.
During the 2nd Conigliaro match, the camera panned out at the break and I noticed he was being cornered by both Zack & his father. I went back and looked at the Junior Open matches from last month and it was the same then. I know he's very close with his dad, but I'm not sure that's the best idea. Seems like you need to trust your coaches when you hit college.
Thoughts? Admittedly I don't look at the corners most of the time. Do fathers corner their sons in non redshirt situations? Should they?
Thank you you very much. It was all part of the plan.This thread is still going? Kudos to Reaper for starting it and then deftly getting out before the fray ensued.
All I’m saying is the kid has years and year a head of him to improve. Getting too high or low on any kid before he even takes the mat for us is pointless.
.This situation happens in every sport. A prospect is hyped to the max and then has a slip up or two and suddenly we should have never even looked at him. These kids can never live up to the hype and should not try. They just need to train hard, listen to the coaches and use their obvious skills in the best manner possible. Some kids listen too much to what is being said about them good or bad and either get down on themselves or think they do not need the coaching or hard work. Wrestling is a sport where the mental outlook is every bit as important as the physical.
IMO there are 2 different questions on this topic. Actually 3 questions - the first one being is it OK to be critical of someone's wrestling & results on this forum?
I ask that because there is often a quick response defending someone (nothing is wrong, he had a bad weight cut, etc). And I also realize that potential recruits and their parents might read this forum, so it's important to also be supportive. For me it's a fine line.
The other questions are (1) has Wittlake underachieved relative to expectations so far? And (2) does that change expectations about him going forward? Everyone will have their own opinion. For me the answer to the first question is clearly yes. Remember, at the time of his commitment he was not only top 3 in his class, he was also in the PFP rankings across all classes. After his junior year he beat the following guys in order to make his 2nd Cadet World Team - Julian Ramirez, Patrick Kennedy, and Aaron Brooks. Impressive. When Wittlake got injured and Brooks went on to win Cadet gold 3 months later, it seemed even more impressive. Wittlake appeared to be the best 76 kg 17 year old in the world.
The answer to the 2nd question I'm not sure about. I agree with Harley & Obe that it's a confidence thing right now - that's the reason I pointed out about his father being in the corner. It's not hard to imagine him (or anyone) taking their lumps against Chandler, Joe & Jacobe in the room. Then he took losses at Reno to a D1 wrestler that didn't qualify for Nationals and also to a non D1 wrestler. That's rough.
But...an encouraging note. Alex Dieringer gave an interview shortly after his senior season ended. One of the things he said was that he really struggled during his true freshman year. He added that suddenly it was like a switch got flipped and he started beating everyone in the room. Hopefully we see the same thing again.
I ask that because there is often a quick response defending someone (nothing is wrong, he had a bad weight cut, etc). And I also realize that potential recruits and their parents might read this forum, so it's important to also be supportive. For me it's a fine line.
The other questions are (1) has Wittlake underachieved relative to expectations so far? And (2) does that change expectations about him going forward? Everyone will have their own opinion. For me the answer to the first question is clearly yes. Remember, at the time of his commitment he was not only top 3 in his class, he was also in the PFP rankings across all classes. After his junior year he beat the following guys in order to make his 2nd Cadet World Team - Julian Ramirez, Patrick Kennedy, and Aaron Brooks. Impressive. When Wittlake got injured and Brooks went on to win Cadet gold 3 months later, it seemed even more impressive. Wittlake appeared to be the best 76 kg 17 year old in the world.
The answer to the 2nd question I'm not sure about. I agree with Harley & Obe that it's a confidence thing right now - that's the reason I pointed out about his father being in the corner. It's not hard to imagine him (or anyone) taking their lumps against Chandler, Joe & Jacobe in the room. Then he took losses at Reno to a D1 wrestler that didn't qualify for Nationals and also to a non D1 wrestler. That's rough.
But...an encouraging note. Alex Dieringer gave an interview shortly after his senior season ended. One of the things he said was that he really struggled during his true freshman year. He added that suddenly it was like a switch got flipped and he started beating everyone in the room. Hopefully we see the same thing again.
Great post. And just to be clear I think it is perfectly okay to not be thrilled with Wittlake's freestyle results of late. That haven't been what you would expect. I just think it is important to remember every kid develops at a different rate and some have a hard time adjusting to college. I think it is kind of crazy to get to down on the kid before we even see him wrestle officially for us. He still has a boatload of potential.
Wrassler, I have no problem with critiquing a wrestler. I have a problem pronouncing someone a bust, before they ever wrestle a match. I also think it’s unfair to equate freestyle results with folk style success. Take Picc as an example.
That's fair. I'm not sure about the bust part though. I won't try to speak for others, but I read the thread as though some have just reset their expectations. Initially they viewed Wittlake as a likely NC, and now they see him as a good wrestler that will need to jump levels in order to win a title. But either way, I agree with your points.
Conigliaro just beat Artalona this morning, so maybe that loss isn't as bad as you thought.
