What?! Polar ice caps are not going bye bye?!
- Thread starter EvilPOKES
- Start date
This guy jinxed it. He wrote this article in May 2015 and the sea ice promptly dropped to 2 million square kilometers below trend and more or less stayed there for two years.
The idea that people being skeptical of government power grabs never ceases to amaze me. Oh, and that skepticism necessarily equals denier.
Lets keep it on topic guys. This thread is about evilPOKES posting out of date articles from Forbes that turned out to be comically wrong.
I didn't check the phuckin' date, get over it. The information is still factual and you hippy, liberal, pole-smokers are continuing to fail at your causes.
What was the Data before 1978? I mean there was only a couple million years lol. You are using 40 years out of millions to define the climate on this planet. IMO you are just as guilty as picking and choosing date to support your claim.
We didn't have satellites for measuring ice caps before 1978.
So what you're saying is that we can't definitely state if this is normal, an anomaly, or caused by man because have have such a limited snapshot?
What I am saying is that, contra Forbes, global sea ice isn't at or above it's recorded average, but instead significantly below it.
So what facts are you using to back up this is a man made phenomenon then? If you are taking 40 years out of 100's of millions of years to back up a claim then that is foolish IMO. I am not saying that some environmental conservation isn't needed because I am an out doors person and I like trying to keep the world clean. I think the use of plastic is far more important to the oceans then the sea ice data you are reporting.
Also you need to yell at China, India, and Russia if you think climate change is man made not the US of A.
Because it's dogma. Climate deniers are apostates.
Yes as you can see in graph I posted that September sea ice growth was decent (though the total extent is still more than 2 sigmas below average), but then it was followed by easily the worst October on record.
I am doing nothing but disputing the claim global sea levels are above the recorded mean. This is why we have climate threads every month, every time we get close to determining whether a small piece of the equation is an empirical fact, we spiral out into less empirical based questions like what the weather was 100 million years ago or if we can ignore all of this since China is also bad.
The bad thing is most this poison from air pollutants in China makes its way into the pacific ocean or makes it all the way to the mainland here in America. I would just like to see people worry about the ones doing the most harm then over regulate ourselves trying to make a .0001% difference here. I think what he have done to rivers and oceans as far as the trash we let or put in them is far more of a problem then the coal industry polluting the air here. I think the climate change ordeal is a way for politicians to make more money off honest Americans.
I think it's also a way to avoid any sort of discussion. Just scream autistically then move to discredit in order to avoid an actual conversation that could pursuade someone to also be skeptical.
The amazing thing to me is that most people are against any sort of major pollution and would also support common sense initiatives. The problem is the definition of common sense of course. Personally, I have to question how much common sense exists in any one person who thinks handing over so much power to a government isn't worthy of skepticism.
Thor, we are having an actual conversation. This is a weird thread to complain about autistic screaming.
All true but make no mistake - it's an article of faith as surely as might be found in any religion.
I've heard the carbon skeptics saying both on tv and to my face that God will not let anything happen to the earth.
I'm totally open to the science. I have yet to hear a skeptic's arguments and think they are truly interested in a search for the truth. They make rote talking points that track tobacco industry's arguments for years. Last yearish the Daily Mail published some really punchy articles that claimed carbon alarmists were flat wrong on what was occuring. Well... ok. I tracked the articles and studies down and the skeptics, not the advocates, were plainly spinning the science.
The skeptics also try to paint their opponents into a corner, ala Medic. They claim you can't listen to anyone with the government, because they're biased. Ditto for academia. Ditto for private enterprise. That leaves only unqualified amateurs. Clever, but smacks of intellectual dishonesty.
I don't get this line of thinking. It sounds like you are basically saying, "China is doing significantly more damage to the Earth than the U.S., so don't talk to me about changes within this country until they are brought under control".
That's like owning a restaurant and refusing to fix health code violations because the restaurant down the street has been dinged with more health code violations then yours.
https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4435
BTW, 2016 Arctic Sea Ice Minimum Levels were the 2nd lowest since we began taking satellite measurements. I honestly don't know how this guy could claim that there has been relatively little change from 1979, when the NASA charts show a huge deviation. That alone should disqualify him from claiming to have credibility on this topic.
As to China, I have some knowledge in that area, given that my wife was part of the Mongolian Govt's delegation to one of the Chinese energy development institutes for a 3 month seminar on this topic 2 yrs ago. China is pouring an amazing amount of $ (or whatever the symbol for yuan is) into renewable energy projects all across the country. They recognize the amount of damage being done by coal and are fast tracking wind, solar and hydro-electric to replace their coal plants as fast as they can produce and install the equipment. In fact, they've got so much installed already the hold-up is hooking all of their generation facilities to their "grid." Their announced goal is to close all their coal plants within a 15 - 20 year span.
Many of the Chinese companies making solar panels are already making some of the most efficient panels at relatively low cost and as they ramp up the economy of scale will continue to drop their production costs just that much more. Her family is already set to put solar atop their slaughterhouse, which is being updated, due to how low the installed cost is. By comparison, by buying directly from one of the solar panel companies in China, their cost is somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 lower than comparable panels would cost a buyer in the US.
BTW, the Chinese were hosting delegations from all over the world with an emphasis on Asia, sharing their knowledge and information. Don't be surprised that if in a decade the Chinese are banking mint selling their own equipment and technology to the developing world.
BTW, 2016 Arctic Sea Ice Minimum Levels were the 2nd lowest since we began taking satellite measurements. I honestly don't know how this guy could claim that there has been relatively little change from 1979, when the NASA charts show a huge deviation. That alone should disqualify him from claiming to have credibility on this topic.
As to China, I have some knowledge in that area, given that my wife was part of the Mongolian Govt's delegation to one of the Chinese energy development institutes for a 3 month seminar on this topic 2 yrs ago. China is pouring an amazing amount of $ (or whatever the symbol for yuan is) into renewable energy projects all across the country. They recognize the amount of damage being done by coal and are fast tracking wind, solar and hydro-electric to replace their coal plants as fast as they can produce and install the equipment. In fact, they've got so much installed already the hold-up is hooking all of their generation facilities to their "grid." Their announced goal is to close all their coal plants within a 15 - 20 year span.
Many of the Chinese companies making solar panels are already making some of the most efficient panels at relatively low cost and as they ramp up the economy of scale will continue to drop their production costs just that much more. Her family is already set to put solar atop their slaughterhouse, which is being updated, due to how low the installed cost is. By comparison, by buying directly from one of the solar panel companies in China, their cost is somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 lower than comparable panels would cost a buyer in the US.
BTW, the Chinese were hosting delegations from all over the world with an emphasis on Asia, sharing their knowledge and information. Don't be surprised that if in a decade the Chinese are banking mint selling their own equipment and technology to the developing world.
That isn't what I said at all Been. You are twisting my words to fit your narrative. I said how can we fix air pollution when the three biggest offenders don't give a damn. The USA and England and France are not the ones polluting the hell out of the air. What I said is you won't solve anything until you can bring China, India, and Russia to heel. That is what the hell I am saying.
That's not what I took from this sentence.
Not worth arguing about. I'm sure that we both agree that it is important for changes to be made to fix pollution problems from the countries with the highest per capita populations.
So do you think then America is the one doing all the harm? From the sentence you posted I think I made myself pretty clear. Right now there isn't technology that improve the carbon out put with out doing more harm then good. So instead of trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole why not look to the ones doing all the harm. Do some research because I am not going to talk to someone that is uneducated on the subject and you are just talking talking points from news outlets. Look at what China is doing to the environment.
A better analogy then having health violations and doing nothing would be that I have a restaurant. There a skin dust in the air. I have installed the best systems in my restaurant but there is still a slight % of skin dust getting on the food from the air. The guy next door doesn't give to shits and has 80% skin dust in the air. I get a little skin dust pollution in my restaurant from him being such a poor owner and not caring. I have to go broke buying a system that will remove the .0001% skin dust that is polluting my air in my restaurant. Thus having to just shut down my business and then all my customers just go next door.
Educate yourself it is liberating thinking for yourself instead of what the media, or the politicians tell you to think.
Some of you act like something is going to be done about it. With the elitists demanding other people change, while they continue stamping the world with their giant carbon foot print, it's never going to gain any credible momentum.. When everyone is as environmentally friendly as me, I'll start to give a darn....maybe.
What if, and I'm just spitballing here, we taxed the specific behaviors that you consider "stamping the world with their giant carbon foot print?"
So you can ruin the environment only if you are rich. Man the rich just keep not giving a crap. I drive a total of 15 miles a day in a eco car. Will I have to pay a tax on that then so the rich can fly every where in private jets and yachts? I think maybe some people just need to start practicing what they preach.
