What is your opinion on privatizing the education system in the US?

[BvillePoker]

Every year I lean more and more towards moving education away from the government and in to the hands on a free market as being a good idea. I think there is a middle option where parents can have a choice as to what private school they send their kids to. The private schools can meet certain requirements about core cirriculum, student transportation, and disabled learning that qualifies them for a government reimbursement of a certain dollar amount for each student. I think the free market system has creativity, ingenuity, and incentives for producing a quality product at lower costs. Private institutions can tailor education to fit the needs of students and parents can choose schools that are better suited for their children and their life goals. Not all the schools have to charge the same, but they all get the same per student enrolled at their school and parents can supplement that if they want. This might create a bit more of a gap between "rich" and "poor," but think that the government has done an exceptional job of proving that it cannot produce a good product. I am interested in hearing what you think are the pro's and con's of this.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Every year I lean more and more towards moving education away from the government and in to the hands on a free market as being a good idea. I think there is a middle option where parents can have a choice as to what private school they send their kids to. The private schools can meet certain requirements about core cirriculum, student transportation, and disabled learning that qualifies them for a government reimbursement of a certain dollar amount for each student. I think the free market system has creativity, ingenuity, and incentives for producing a quality product at lower costs. Private institutions can tailor education to fit the needs of students and parents can choose schools that are better suited for their children and their life goals. Not all the schools have to charge the same, but they all get the same per student enrolled at their school and parents can supplement that if they want. This might create a bit more of a gap between "rich" and "poor," but think that the government has done an exceptional job of proving that it cannot produce a good product. I am interested in hearing what you think are the pro's and con's of this.

CON: The right wing nut jobs have succeeded in dismantling public education for their privatization phantasy. Our schools are so underfunded it's insane, and nobody should ever succeed at such a destructive effort.

PROS: Actually funding education would do wonders, but if the parents and citizenry prefers low taxes to good education..... c'est la vie. Private schools in Okla are doing a better job, but there's lots of potential reasons. I'm for some type of voucher system at this point. Dumb kids, smart kids, mechanical kids, nerdy kids, artsy kids.... all should be able to find a school that accommodates their particular needs and talents if they want. I suspect the reality is the schools won't specialize and be all that better, in part because that would require boarding schools to some extent. A parent in Stonewall that wants their kid at the best high school for math and pre-med won't find lots of schools within a practical driving distance. In any event, I've come full circle on this issue. Also, the "cheap" schools may be more regressive than what we have now. Getting away from some of the rural school boards and their uneducated board members isn't an entirely bad thing.

If privatization/vouchers are proven to work in similar scenarios to Oklahoma, then they should be implemented. The analysis is a little different for elementary ed, but I haven't really formed a strong opinion on that.

 

[TPOKE]

There's plenty of money to fund education and make it strong. Two things hold it back: 1) The gov't is too busy wasting money on other things and 2) A lot of parents don't want to do squat at home to help their kids.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

I've been thinking about this lately as well. I haven't really decided but I'm leaning toward a hybrid of sorts. I think everyone complaining that not enough money is being thrown at it haven't taken the time to look at studies that basically show no correlation between money spent per pupil to quality of education. At least the ones I've read didn't.

 

[imprimis]

All education should be locally controlled. This country did very well for almost 200 years when local school districts determined the criterion. Then the Dept of Education came around in 1979 and the results plummeted. Get the federal government out of all education.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

All education should be locally controlled. This country did very well for almost 200 years when local school districts determined the criterion. Then the Dept of Education came around in 1979 and the results plummeted. Get the federal government out of all education.

What criteria is the federal government imposing now that you think is wrong?

 

[Colorado_Poke]

There's plenty of money to fund education and make it strong. Two things hold it back: 1) The gov't is too busy wasting money on other things and 2) A lot of parents don't want to do squat at home to help their kids.

I've always felt that item #2 in your post was the biggest predictor of success or failure for a given student. Of course there are other factors - genetics, early childhood learning development, quality of teachers, resources available at school, etc - but it seems to me that active involvement from parents is most important.

When I was growing up, my parents always expressed an interest in what I was learning in school, what homework I had for the evening, what projects/papers I had coming up, and whether there was anything they could do to help me (my mom helped me study for spelling tests every night). I went to nothing but public schools growing up, but I'm on a career path that's better than 99% of the kids from my hometown, including those that went to private schools, and I attribute a large part of my success to my parents' involvement as I was growing up.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Schools being based on the local tax base is a flawed system. A kid born in north Tulsa versus a kid born in south Tulsa get a world of difference when it comes to opportunities and resources.

 

[squeak]

I've always felt that item #2 in your post was the biggest predictor of success or failure for a given student. Of course there are other factors - genetics, early childhood learning development, quality of teachers, resources available at school, etc - but it seems to me that active involvement from parents is most important.

When I was growing up, my parents always expressed an interest in what I was learning in school, what homework I had for the evening, what projects/papers I had coming up, and whether there was anything they could do to help me (my mom helped me study for spelling tests every night). I went to nothing but public schools growing up, but I'm on a career path that's better than 99% of the kids from my hometown, including those that went to private schools, and I attribute a large part of my success to my parents' involvement as I was growing up.

At a minimum parents need to stress the importance of doing well in school and making it a priority.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Schools being based on the local tax base is a flawed system. A kid born in north Tulsa versus a kid born in south Tulsa get a world of difference when it comes to opportunities and resources.

Wow. Objecting to inequality n' shit.... You're almost Al Sharpton.

 

[Headhunter]

Wow. Objecting to inequality n' shit.... You're almost Al Sharpton.

So you're saying HSH is a self promoting con artist who's only interested in social justice for how much he can extort out of it?

 

[ThorOdinson13]

At a minimum parents need to stress the importance of doing well in school and making it a priority.

The fact that education is compulsory immediately and unintentionally devalues it in the psyche of society.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Libs aren't interested in making kids smart. Keep em dumb and on the plantation eh sys? Keeps the voting block right where they want it. The US spends more on a per pupil basis than most countries and have shit to show for it. Money is not the answer. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid, but is starts at home like mentioned in previous posts.

 

[ctrawick]

CON: The right wing nut jobs have succeeded in dismantling public education for their privatization phantasy. Our schools are so underfunded it's insane, and nobody should ever succeed at such a destructive effort.

I tend to disagree with you here. Not sure where you live but there are some fancy new high schools in our area. Now I cant say for sure why they did it (I see nothing that would tell me it was an engineering issue), but Trinity Springs HS has a huge man made pond in front of it. One of my buddies said it must have cost $750K. Why does a HS need that crap? Schools = Gvt and lots of wasted spending.

 

[TPOKE]

Libs aren't interested in making kids smart. Keep em dumb and on the plantation eh sys? Keeps the voting block right where they want it. The US spends more on a per pupil basis than most countries and have shit to show for it. Money is not the answer. Sometimes you just can't fix stupid, but is starts at home like mentioned in previous posts.

Also, funny how a lot of things don't change when democrats are in full control. The voting intelligence of that party is what is wrong with America. Keep certain voting demographics down year after year, bait them with false promises, then blame the other side for it not happening.

 

[BvillePoker]

Wow, surprise surprise. Another thread started with a honest request for input and opposing views on a specific subject devolves in to a "libs are dumb" and "conservatives are dumb" pissing contest. It's like I am in ****ing 5th grade again. "You are stupid. Well so are you." You cannot rail against Sys and Cup for doing it if you are going to do it too. Maybe our new year's resolution needs to be not do do the EXACT SAME THING as the people you have put on ignore!?!

 

[long-duc-dong]

Wow, surprise surprise. Another thread started with a honest request for input and opposing views on a specific subject devolves in to a "libs are dumb" and "conservatives are dumb" pissing contest. It's like I am in ****ing 5th grade again. "You are stupid. Well so are you." You cannot rail against Sys and Cup for doing it if you are going to do it too. Maybe our new year's resolution needs to be not do do the EXACT SAME THING as the people you have put on ignore!?!

Never called anyone in this thread stupid. Quit making shit up.

 

[BvillePoker]

**** you long-duc! Never said you did, but since you seem to want to come at me here is a quote form your post "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid." You are either a troll of the worst kind or you really cannot see what an asshole you are.

 

[long-duc-dong]

**** you long-duc! Never said you did, but since you seem to want to come at me here is a quote form your post "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid." You are either a troll of the worst kind or you really cannot see what an asshole you are.

I'll use the obligatory, apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

 

[long-duc-dong]

**** you long-duc! Never said you did, but since you seem to want to come at me here is a quote form your post "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid." You are either a troll of the worst kind or you really cannot see what an asshole you are.

Who were you referring to with your calling people stupid comment?

 

[BvillePoker]

Anyone who did not actually address the topic posed in the original question and instead merely resorted to left wing vs. right wing bullshit.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Anyone who did not actually address the topic posed in the original question and instead merely resorted to left wing vs. right wing bullshit.

Ok. So you were referencing me with that comment? It's a politics board you're going to get left vs right on here.

 

[JonnyVito]

**** you long-duc! Never said you did, but since you seem to want to come at me here is a quote form your post "Sometimes you just can't fix stupid." You are either a troll of the worst kind or you really cannot see what an asshole you are.

I am missing this post ITT. Did it get deleted or something? Bville you seem to be the only one in here going nuts.

 

[BvillePoker]

Vito you are right. Did go a bit nuts there. Assholes trolls like long-duc gets under my skin. I know I should not let him. I am sure you have a couple that get under your skin. But more than anything I used profanity and an attacking tone just to try to lure the moderators in to maybe taking a second look at how this particular board run and finding out if they would take any action at all.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Vito you are right. Did go a bit nuts there. Assholes trolls like long-duc gets under my skin. I know I should not let him. I am sure you have a couple that get under your skin. But more than anything I used profanity and an attacking tone just to try to lure the moderators in to maybe taking a second look at how this particular board run and finding out if they would take any action at all.

You can't be serious. I posted an answer to your question that didn't fit your prerequisite of what an answer should be and you throw a hissy fit and want me banned. Is that what you're saying? Come on man your better than that. Your op asked for "opinions". That's what you got.

 

[TPOKE]

Anyone who did not actually address the topic posed in the original question and instead merely resorted to left wing vs. right wing bullshit.

I did both, so what's that make me? I did it in response, not directly, to the liberal lapdog sys.

 

[TPOKE]

Vito you are right. Did go a bit nuts there. Assholes trolls like long-duc gets under my skin. I know I should not let him. I am sure you have a couple that get under your skin. But more than anything I used profanity and an attacking tone just to try to lure the moderators in to maybe taking a second look at how this particular board run and finding out if they would take any action at all.

you must have sys on ignore.

 

[TPOKE]

Vito you are right. Did go a bit nuts there. Assholes trolls like long-duc gets under my skin. I know I should not let him. I am sure you have a couple that get under your skin. But more than anything I used profanity and an attacking tone just to try to lure the moderators in to maybe taking a second look at how this particular board run and finding out if they would take any action at all.

Seriously?

 

[BvillePoker]

You can't be serious. I posted an answer to your question that didn't fit your prerequisite of what an answer should be and you throw a hissy fit and want me banned. Is that what you're saying? Come on man your better than that. Your op asked for "opinions". That's what you got.

Never said nor intended to have you banned. You're a bit of a narcissist if you think I was trying to get you banned because I specifically said that "I" did those things to see if the mod's would take any actions.

Well you started with "Libs aren't interested in making kids smart." That seems to be a shot a libs not and answer to the question.I guess I missed the part of your post where you said that privatization was good because, or privatization was bad because? You did say that US spends a lot on education and gets little to show for it and money was not the answer, and it starts at home. Seemed to be more about the current education system than whether privatization of the education system was a good idea. What did I miss?

 

[BvillePoker]

I did both, so what's that make me? I did it in response, not directly, to the liberal lapdog sys.

I guess you have to answer what that makes you. Yes I agree with you that you responded to sys by doing basically what sys did, but sys did actually say that he felt that schools were underfunded and if those little funds would do more in private hands and people would like to see their taxes go down he was ok with that and that private schools in Oklahoma seem to be doing a better job of educating (summation in my words not his). So he at least has one leg to stand on where you really have none since you made absolutely no attempt to address the actual topic that was posed in the thread and just chose to do a drive by on the democrats. Sorry. I call them like I see them.

 

[BvillePoker]

you must have sys on ignore.

I don't have a single person on the rivals boards on my ignore list. If I did, Sys would not be #1 on my list.

 

[BvillePoker]

Seriously?

Yup. I am an idiot that just keeps thinking things can be better.

 

[long-duc-dong]

Never said nor intended to have you banned. You're a bit of a narcissist if you think I was trying to get you banned because I specifically said that "I" did those things to see if the mod's would take any actions.

Well you started with "Libs aren't interested in making kids smart." That seems to be a shot a libs not and answer to the question.I guess I missed the part of your post where you said that privatization was good because, or privatization was bad because? You did say that US spends a lot on education and gets little to show for it and money was not the answer, and it starts at home. Seemed to be more about the current education system than whether privatization of the education system was a good idea. What did I miss?

And what actions were "you" looking for the mods to take? You're hellbent on calling me every name in the book today so feel free it won't hurt my feelings. Again, you asked for opinions. I gave you my opinion. I'll double down on what I said previously and add this.......privatization won't work until things at home change. Libs (is it ok to use that term?) despise capitalism. So if you privatize schools they will find something to bitch and moan about and insist government step in to fix the slightest of problems. Right back where we started. I simply reject your premise that privatizing our schools will work. You said in your op that it might create a bigger gap between the rich and the poor. You don't think left leaning (is it ok to use that term?) people will find a big problem with that? Right back where we started. I took a "shot" at libs because they deserve the shot. They're part of the problem, and you can't address the problem without first recognizing what the problem is.

 

[TPOKE]

I guess you have to answer what that makes you. Yes I agree with you that you responded to sys by doing basically what sys did, but sys did actually say that he felt that schools were underfunded and if those little funds would do more in private hands and people would like to see their taxes go down he was ok with that and that private schools in Oklahoma seem to be doing a better job of educating (summation in my words not his). So he at least has one leg to stand on where you really have none since you made absolutely no attempt to address the actual topic that was posed in the thread and just chose to do a drive by on the democrats. Sorry. I call them like I see them.

So you went right by my first response. And no I wasn't referring to a single party when I said "gov't". And yes, sys did blame the Conservatives.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

I'm just gonna go on ahead and unwatch this thread now. Have a Happy New Year you all.

 

[long-duc-dong]

I'm just gonna go on ahead and unwatch this thread now. Have a Happy New Year you all.

Oh come on. Happy New Year to you.

 

[shortbus]

Teachers unions have certainly not helped the quality of education either.