War turns decent men into murderers.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-the-last-nuremberg-prosecutor-alive-wants-the-world-to-know/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-the-last-nuremberg-prosecutor-alive-wants-the-world-to-know/
We Should All Listen To What This Man Has To Say
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
Respect the guy and his views...but can assure you my dad, who served in combat in Korea, was not a murderer and was infinitely better than a "decent man," Likewise for the vast majority of WWII veterans as well as Korean, Vietnam and service members from the infernal regions ME.
Conversely would never have considered many of the REMF's as decent people especially the Nazis. Most were opportunist, criminals and sociopaths before they entered military service. Any "decent man" would have had the moral compass to know herding men, women and children into a ditch to be murdered was not a function of a true military endeavor.
Japanese deserved the A-bombs and it likely saved the US and Allies in excess of one million more causalities from invading Japan. Very good chance that some of us in this board would not be here had that invasion and subsequent losses played out.
Conversely would never have considered many of the REMF's as decent people especially the Nazis. Most were opportunist, criminals and sociopaths before they entered military service. Any "decent man" would have had the moral compass to know herding men, women and children into a ditch to be murdered was not a function of a true military endeavor.
Japanese deserved the A-bombs and it likely saved the US and Allies in excess of one million more causalities from invading Japan. Very good chance that some of us in this board would not be here had that invasion and subsequent losses played out.
Damn! You, I, and a lot of other sensible folks get this, but the Pollyanna la-la-landers will never grasp reality.
I appreciate what you had to say. Your dad is a lucky man to have a son that so highly respects him.
But I think you are misreading the point. The point is that politicians use people like pawns in a chess match. They have no more regard for us than they have for bugs. They are masters at deceiving us into thinking of people from different cultures are enemies. Not the deplorable Systems under which they live. Not the politicians if other countries. The people themselves. Anything to divert our attention away from their own foibles. They convince some of us into thinking comiting atrocities is a good thing as long as it's done in the name of our country. The men who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, for example, became mass murderers of tens of thousands of people, the overwhelming majority of whom were completely innocent victims. But those men had been convinced they were doing their patriotic duty. Decent men became murderers in the name of the state. Fire bombing Dresden was patriotic. Gunning down Jews was patriotic. My Lai was patriotic. Drone strikes on villages is state sponsored. Beheading journalists has the Imam's approval. That's what his point is. War turns decent young men into murderers. All because they have been duped into thinking it's OK, because our governments have said so.
One difference I'd say Ponca is that there is a difference between murder and killing. It makes them killers for sure. Murderers, not so much.
But if I kill someone while defending myself (or by extension my family, country, or civilization), I'd object to being called a murderer.
But if I kill someone while defending myself (or by extension my family, country, or civilization), I'd object to being called a murderer.
I found this argument regarding the argument that bombing Hiroshima saved lives. I thought it was interesting, and I thought you might think so too.
http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/did-bombing-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-save-lives/
That's a valid point. But please explain to me how the non-combatant civilians in Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc. would be believed to be threatening you or your family? If they felt you and your family threatened them would it be acceptable for them to incinerate you and your family?
And another question. The people tried and convicted at Nuremberg denied they were murderers right up to the time they were hanged. What do you call them? Killers? Or murderers? They were convinced what they were doing was perfectly acceptable. Their government told them to do it, so they performed their patriotic duty. Do you suppose the people they slaughtered were concerned about the difference between killer and murderer? If they had a voice in the distinction what word do you suppose they would use?
Standing ovation sir. And nothing but respect to your father for his sacrifice for our freedoms today.
Ponca, sorry I dropped off this last night, I'll shoot you another response later. Thanks for the post and discussion. This is a good thread.
Here's an article that discusses Randolph Bourne's claim that "war is the health of the state." His essay is almost 100 years old and has proven to be prescient.
https://mises.org/library/bourne-war
