To my friend Ponca Dan

[Syskatine]

@Ponca Dan aren't you happy with Biden for doing this? Good to get out of this war, isn't it?

President Joe Biden announced Thursday the United States was ending support for a grinding five-year Saudi-led military offensive in Yemen that has deepened suffering in the Arabian peninsula’s poorest country, calling the move part of restoring a U.S. emphasis on diplomacy, democracy and human rights. “The war has created a humanitarian and strategic catastrophe,” Biden told diplomats in his first visit to the State Department as president. ”This war has to end.” The Yemen reversal is one of a series of changes Biden laid out Thursday that he said would be part of a course correction for U.S. foreign policy. That’s after President Donald Trump — and some Republican and Democratic administrations before his — often aided authoritarian leaders abroad in the name of stability. The announcement on Yemen fulfills a campaign pledge. But it also shows Biden putting the spotlight on a major humanitarian crisis that the United States has helped aggravate. The reversing of policy also comes as a rebuke to Saudi Arabia, a global oil giant and U.S. strategic partner.


(See? Facts!)

 

[Ponca Dan]

@Ponca Dan aren't you happy with Biden for doing this? Good to get out of this war, isn't it?

President Joe Biden announced Thursday the United States was ending support for a grinding five-year Saudi-led military offensive in Yemen that has deepened suffering in the Arabian peninsula’s poorest country, calling the move part of restoring a U.S. emphasis on diplomacy, democracy and human rights. “The war has created a humanitarian and strategic catastrophe,” Biden told diplomats in his first visit to the State Department as president. ”This war has to end.” The Yemen reversal is one of a series of changes Biden laid out Thursday that he said would be part of a course correction for U.S. foreign policy. That’s after President Donald Trump — and some Republican and Democratic administrations before his — often aided authoritarian leaders abroad in the name of stability. The announcement on Yemen fulfills a campaign pledge. But it also shows Biden putting the spotlight on a major humanitarian crisis that the United States has helped aggravate. The reversing of policy also comes as a rebuke to Saudi Arabia, a global oil giant and U.S. strategic partner.


(See? Facts!)

I stand in applause for the sentiment being expressed. Let me know when the US quits supplying the bombs and training for the Saudi’s to exterminate as many Yemeni civilians possible. And don’t lose sight of the. FACT that in his hearing to become the new Sec. of State Antony Blinken assured the Committee that if Biden gets too “dovish” he will gently steer the old codger back onto the “forever war reservation.” So really what you are presenting as fact is nothing more than a report from a journalist about something he was told Biden said.

Don’t get me wrong! I pray Biden will have the fortitude and experience to outwit the hawks that fill up his administration. God knows DJT didn’t. But let’s see how this plays out before we get too cheerful. But I agree it’s a great start!

 

[2012Bearcat]

Can't wait to see what happens with this. Biden hasn't been right on any of his foreign policy decisions over a now 48 year political career.

 

[Ponca Dan]

This is something I jeer and give catcalls, Sys, how about you? Biden gives. Then he takes away. Does it concern you even a little bit that we are militarily defending the richest European nation? The hawks seem to be determined to pick a fight with Russia. Disgusting! This article is FACTUAL.

Biden Administration Halts Plan to Pull 12,000 Troops Out of Germany - News From Antiwar.com

Pentagon is now reviewing the drawdown

news.antiwar.com

 

[Syskatine]

This is something I jeer and give catcalls, Sys, how about you? Biden gives. Then he takes away. Does it concern you even a little bit that we are militarily defending the richest European nation? The hawks seem to be determined to pick a fight with Russia. Disgusting! This article is FACTUAL.

Biden Administration Halts Plan to Pull 12,000 Troops Out of Germany - News From Antiwar.com

Pentagon is now reviewing the drawdown

news.antiwar.com

I just don't know. This from the article kind of muddies the water a bit.

"To sell the drawdown to Congress, Trump administration officials framed it as a repositioning of resources to better confront Russia. As part of Trump’s plan, about half of the troops leaving Germany were set to move west towards Russia’s border."

Are they de-escalating with Russia?

Maybe the smart move is to suspend anything trump foreign policy and err on the side of repairing relationships with European allies for the time being. But yeah, I'm also fine de-occupying germany. But maybe we don't need more troops on the Russian border, either? Do I have to have an opinion on this one, Dan? Can I just defer to the competent grownups that handle it?

 

[Ponca Dan]

I just don't know. This from the article kind of muddies the water a bit.

"To sell the drawdown to Congress, Trump administration officials framed it as a repositioning of resources to better confront Russia. As part of Trump’s plan, about half of the troops leaving Germany were set to move west towards Russia’s border."

Are they de-escalating with Russia?

Maybe the smart move is to suspend anything trump foreign policy and err on the side of repairing relationships with European allies for the time being. But yeah, I'm also fine de-occupying germany. But maybe we don't need more troops on the Russian border, either? Do I have to have an opinion on this one, Dan? Can I just defer to the competent grownups that handle it?

Let me know who are those competent grownups. So far they embroiled us in 14 conflicts across the globe, have managed to insert our troops into something like 50 countries, have tried their hardest to reengage with Iran, overthrow the government of Venezuela, are plotting nuclear war with Russia and maybe a China, have “occupied” South Korea and Japan, two of our most coveted allies, for decades, drained trillions of dollars from our treasure, killed tens of thousands of our young men and women, and hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of foreigners, mostly civilians. So I’m having trouble seeing competence from any of them. Perhaps you could point out a few opposing voices that have ever had the slightest influence with our competent foreign policy hawks.

 

[Syskatine]

Perhaps you could point out a few opposing voices that have ever had the slightest influence with our competent foreign policy hawks.

I just posted an article about de-stirring up a yemen war.

 

[Medic007]

...

I just posted an article about de-stirring up a yemen war.

Are you referring to the conflict that Obama and King Draft Dodger Biden worked hard to help create before leaving office?

I'll bet Barry's Iranian mullah buddies are happy with the decision. Maybe Pedo Joe can finally get them to like us?

 

[Ponca Dan]

I just posted an article about de-stirring up a yemen war.

That's it? That's the best you can come up with? A demented old fool who is a puppet for his handlers stumbles into the DoJ and utters a few words about Yemen? Raytheon executives must be quaking in their boots!

Biden's foreign policy team is almost entirely made up of Obama holdovers, people like Blinken and Susan Rice. People who destabilized the Middle East even worse than Bush. People with enough juice to keep Trump's antiwar sentiment at bay. People who will tell Biden what to do and when to do it, and he will do as he's told, like he has done his entire political career.

Please don't insult our intelligence with such balderdash. If there are voices within the Biden foreign policy team who truly want to end the forever wars tell us who they are! And explain how they will accomplish the hurculean task of overpowering the firmly embedded war making establishment.

 

[Syskatine]

People who destabilized the Middle East even worse than Bush.

Dan. Come on now.

balderdash

THat's an underused word, imo. Old school.

If there are voices within the Biden foreign policy team who truly want to end the forever wars tell us who they are!

Well, announcing the Yemen deal is one, we have no business helping Saudi subdue their neighbor. Saudi causes a ton of problems and getting some distance between us and them is a good thing, imo. They chopped up that journalist, lied about it, and Biff just... kissed their butt some more. All parties have been guilty of cozying up to Saudi too much.

And explain how they will accomplish the hurculean task of overpowering the firmly embedded war making establishment.

I am claiming no such thing. Biden isn't gonna do a whole lot in that regard but I wish he would. I AM claiming that it's better to get along with other democracies and not cozy up to tyrants. I AM claiming it's generally better to stay out of Asian wars.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Dan. Come on now.



THat's an underused word, imo. Old school.



Well, announcing the Yemen deal is one, we have no business helping Saudi subdue their neighbor. Saudi causes a ton of problems and getting some distance between us and them is a good thing, imo. They chopped up that journalist, lied about it, and Biff just... kissed their butt some more. All parties have been guilty of cozying up to Saudi too much.



I am claiming no such thing. Biden isn't gonna do a whole lot in that regard but I wish he would. I AM claiming that it's better to get along with other democracies and not cozy up to tyrants. I AM claiming it's generally better to stay out of Asian wars.

Good for you. On that we are in total agreement.

 

[Syskatine]

Good for you. On that we are in total agreement.

I saw this pleasant reminder on Letters From an American and it reminded me of Trump and MAGA's "no starting wars" propaganda while he was simultaneously expanding arms sales to authoritarian, undemocratic regimes to predate on their neighbor.


in his first trip overseas, the former president traveled to Saudi Arabia, where he announced the largest single arms deal in American history, worth $110 billion immediately and more than $350 billion over ten years. The White House noted that the deal was “a significant expansion of… [the] security relationship” between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

"That was a tremendous day. Tremendous investments in the United States," Trump told reporters. "Hundreds of billions of dollars of investments into the United States and jobs, jobs, jobs." Lockheed Martin, one of the world’s largest defense contractors, cheered the sale.

It was a public relations victory for Mohammed bin Salman, often referred to as MBS and the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia at the time, coming as it did just a year after Congress voted to allow the families of those killed in the 9/11 attacks to sue the country from which 15 of the 19 hijackers came. It also would increase the U.S. supply of arms to his country’s intervention in Yemen, the country to its south, where a pro-Saudi president had been ousted in 2015 by the Houthi movement, whose members accused him of corruption and ties to Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

I wanna see what Biden does. For now, it looks like there's a heluva authoritarian crackdown in Russia coming, and they always try to get a common enemy to distract the locals from corruption. Maybe keeping an eye towards all the commies right now isn't such a bad idea.

 

[Alpha Woke]

I saw this pleasant reminder on Letters From an American and it reminded me of Trump and MAGA's "no starting wars" propaganda while he was simultaneously expanding arms sales to authoritarian, undemocratic regimes to predate on their neighbor.


in his first trip overseas, the former president traveled to Saudi Arabia, where he announced the largest single arms deal in American history, worth $110 billion immediately and more than $350 billion over ten years. The White House noted that the deal was “a significant expansion of… [the] security relationship” between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

"That was a tremendous day. Tremendous investments in the United States," Trump told reporters. "Hundreds of billions of dollars of investments into the United States and jobs, jobs, jobs." Lockheed Martin, one of the world’s largest defense contractors, cheered the sale.

It was a public relations victory for Mohammed bin Salman, often referred to as MBS and the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia at the time, coming as it did just a year after Congress voted to allow the families of those killed in the 9/11 attacks to sue the country from which 15 of the 19 hijackers came. It also would increase the U.S. supply of arms to his country’s intervention in Yemen, the country to its south, where a pro-Saudi president had been ousted in 2015 by the Houthi movement, whose members accused him of corruption and ties to Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

I wanna see what Biden does. For now, it looks like there's a heluva authoritarian crackdown in Russia coming, and they always try to get a common enemy to distract the locals from corruption. Maybe keeping an eye towards all the commies right now isn't such a bad idea.

Read the second sentence of the last paragraph out loud until you achieve clarity.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I saw this pleasant reminder on Letters From an American and it reminded me of Trump and MAGA's "no starting wars" propaganda while he was simultaneously expanding arms sales to authoritarian, undemocratic regimes to predate on their neighbor.


in his first trip overseas, the former president traveled to Saudi Arabia, where he announced the largest single arms deal in American history, worth $110 billion immediately and more than $350 billion over ten years. The White House noted that the deal was “a significant expansion of… [the] security relationship” between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

"That was a tremendous day. Tremendous investments in the United States," Trump told reporters. "Hundreds of billions of dollars of investments into the United States and jobs, jobs, jobs." Lockheed Martin, one of the world’s largest defense contractors, cheered the sale.

It was a public relations victory for Mohammed bin Salman, often referred to as MBS and the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia at the time, coming as it did just a year after Congress voted to allow the families of those killed in the 9/11 attacks to sue the country from which 15 of the 19 hijackers came. It also would increase the U.S. supply of arms to his country’s intervention in Yemen, the country to its south, where a pro-Saudi president had been ousted in 2015 by the Houthi movement, whose members accused him of corruption and ties to Saudi Arabia and the U.S.

I wanna see what Biden does. For now, it looks like there's a heluva authoritarian crackdown in Russia coming, and they always try to get a common enemy to distract the locals from corruption. Maybe keeping an eye towards all the commies right now isn't such a bad idea.

I have maintained from Day One of Trump’s presidency that his impulse was to end our stupid wars. It is one of the primary reasons (I believe it is the primary reason) the establishment elites from both parties have been so vengeful toward him. They cannot tolerate allowing the general public to question that aspect of their authority and wealth. They figured out very quickly how to steer him away from his peaceful intentions: his narcissism is so great all they had to do was attack any portion of his character and he would drop all other actions to give back as good as he got. He was that easily manipulated. So as regards getting America out of war he was a miserable failure.

But he is no longer president. It’s time to concentrate on the man who can push the button today, and that’s Joe Biden (well, to be accurate it’s the former Obama team that control him). If you are as adamant about peace as you say you will stop with the antiTrump rhetoric and focus on what’s in front of you. Trump is behind you. It’s time to set your Trump hatred aside. It is of no value whatsoever. I must point out that your laser-like focus on DJT, even after he is no longer a threat to what you want our country to be, seems almost autistic.

 

[Syskatine]

in his first trip overseas, the former president traveled to Saudi Arabia, where he announced the largest single arms deal in American history, worth $110 billion immediately and more than $350 billion over ten years. The White House noted that the deal was “a significant expansion of… [the] security relationship” between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

I have maintained from Day One of Trump’s presidency that his impulse was to end our stupid wars.

Reconcile those two quotes.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Reconcile those two quotes.

There is no reconciliation. Trump was played like a drum by the bipartisan elite establishment, as I said earlier.

And here’s where we are today. Doug Bandow analyzes the good and bad from what we can glean from Biden’s speech at the DOJ, coupled with the people he has surrounded himself with. I know, I know, it’s opinion, and you only bother yourself with facts. But like most intelligent opinion it is based on facts. It is very long, however. It might require an attention span you fail to have. But you might like the first part where he talks about the good.

President Joe Biden Speaks on Foreign Policy: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - Antiwar.com

President Joe Biden dropped by the State Department yesterday to praise the State Department and promote his views. The president offered a little bit of - Doug Bandow for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

 

[Syskatine]

There is no reconciliation. Trump was played like a drum by the bipartisan elite establishment, as I said earlier.

And here’s where we are today. Doug Bandow analyzes the good and bad from what we can glean from Biden’s speech at the DOJ, coupled with the people he has surrounded himself with. I know, I know, it’s opinion, and you only bother yourself with facts. But like most intelligent opinion it is based on facts. It is very long, however. It might require an attention span you fail to have. But you might like the first part where he talks about the good.

President Joe Biden Speaks on Foreign Policy: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - Antiwar.com

President Joe Biden dropped by the State Department yesterday to praise the State Department and promote his views. The president offered a little bit of - Doug Bandow for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

Ok, it's mostly opinion. So he starts the criticism with this:

"While criticizing the coup Washington should acknowledge its limited options. The Tatmadaw, Burma’s military, ruled directly and brutally for 49 years, for all that time isolated and much of it sanctioned. China will cheerfully help fill the economic gap that results. Rather than demanding to lead, the US should back the efforts other democratic states as they seek to find a path that better promotes Burma’s citizens without expanding Beijing’s influence."

Why exactly should he begin by acknowleding weakness and further enabling the junta? What??

And there was no demand to lead. Not one tangible American resource was committed, to read the article! I don't understand what the criticism is of a potus criticizing a military junta. The nitpicking is nuts.

The author then complains that

"America is overcommitted and defending a gaggle of dubious partners capable of caring for themselves.

However, the result is more likely to be bad, an increase rather than decrease of America’s military responsibilities."

Did i miss biden starting some new conflict?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Sys, I assume you know that Aaron Mate is firmly on your side of the political spectrum, probably even further left than you. So this is his take on Biden’s speech. Granted: it’s OPINION. But it’s opinion from a far leftist, and his concerns probably ought to be listened to.

Biden Reduces US Role in Saudi War on Yemen, but Leaves Room To Continue Crisis - Antiwar.com Blog

From Pushback with Aaron Maté at The Grayzone: President Biden has taken important steps to reduce the US role in the war on Yemen, while still leaving wiggle room to continue supporting the Saudi-led campaign and imposing its terms on the Yemeni people. Isa Blumi, associate professor at...

www.antiwar.com

 

[Syskatine]

Sys, I assume you know that Aaron Mate is firmly on your side of the political spectrum, probably even further left than you. So this is his take on Biden’s speech. Granted: it’s OPINION. But it’s opinion from a far leftist, and his concerns probably ought to be listened to.

Biden Reduces US Role in Saudi War on Yemen, but Leaves Room To Continue Crisis - Antiwar.com Blog

From Pushback with Aaron Maté at The Grayzone: President Biden has taken important steps to reduce the US role in the war on Yemen, while still leaving wiggle room to continue supporting the Saudi-led campaign and imposing its terms on the Yemeni people. Isa Blumi, associate professor at...

www.antiwar.com

Why don't you respond to my last reply? I finally read your article and engage and you just post another one?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Why don't you respond to my last reply? I finally read your article and engage and you just post another one?

Oh, sorry. I thought you should have the last word. But I’ll check out what you wrote and respond later.

 

[Syskatine]

Oh, sorry. I thought you should have the last word. But I’ll check out what you wrote and respond later.

No Dan, this isn't a competition. This is a dialogue. We're supposed to make each other think. I'm not MAGA here.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Ok, it's mostly opinion. So he starts the criticism with this:

"While criticizing the coup Washington should acknowledge its limited options. The Tatmadaw, Burma’s military, ruled directly and brutally for 49 years, for all that time isolated and much of it sanctioned. China will cheerfully help fill the economic gap that results. Rather than demanding to lead, the US should back the efforts other democratic states as they seek to find a path that better promotes Burma’s citizens without expanding Beijing’s influence."

Why exactly should he begin by acknowleding weakness and further enabling the junta? What??

And there was no demand to lead. Not one tangible American resource was committed, to read the article! I don't understand what the criticism is of a potus criticizing a military junta. The nitpicking is nuts.

The author then complains that

"America is overcommitted and defending a gaggle of dubious partners capable of caring for themselves.

However, the result is more likely to be bad, an increase rather than decrease of America’s military responsibilities."

Did i miss biden starting some new conflict?

I fear you are getting as hypersensitive to criticism of Biden as the Trump faithful are about their man.

I believe Bandow was suggesting Biden should keep a conciliatory tone when talking about issues like Myanmar. He was speaking to bureaucrats who are charged with developing plans on how to handle the situation. Bandow is saying Biden should be using “humble” language so they won’t go off half cocked thinking the old man wants to flatten the country.

To be honest I’m a little taken aback by the second part of your reply. There is no doubt the US IS overcommitted to protecting countries that are capable of taking charge of their own defense. But what Bandow is concerned about is how the Biden foreign policy team (which, as the main part of the Obama foreign policy team, was utterly incompetent) will redeploy the troops at its disposal. Biden’s team has made no secret of their desire to take on Russia. And it will be interesting to see how the troops are moved around on the military chessboard. The fear is the redeployment may be designed in part to goad Putin into conflict.

 

[Syskatine]

I fear you are getting as hypersensitive to criticism of Biden as the Trump faithful are about their man.

I believe Bandow was suggesting Biden should keep a conciliatory tone when talking about issues like Myanmar. He was speaking to bureaucrats who are charged with developing plans on how to handle the situation. Bandow is saying Biden should be using “humble” language so they won’t go off half cocked thinking the old man wants to flatten the country.

To be honest I’m a little taken aback by the second part of your reply. There is no doubt the US IS overcommitted to protecting countries that are capable of taking charge of their own defense. But what Bandow is concerned about is how the Biden foreign policy team (which, as the main part of the Obama foreign policy team, was utterly incompetent) will redeploy the troops at its disposal. Biden’s team has made no secret of their desire to take on Russia. And it will be interesting to see how the troops are moved around on the military chessboard. The fear is the redeployment may be designed in part to goad Putin into conflict.

I'm not hypersensitive about Biden's criticism. I just don't prefer nitpicking criticism, because you get the "Wolf!" vibe that has destroyed any dialogue with MAGA. The guy was really nitpicking.

That's not what Bandow said, though. He was critical of Biden for not affirmatively confessing weakness in international diplomacy. I agree that we should use humble language, fwiw. Like... language a professional diplomat uses.

I'm just not as binary and black and white with foreign policy as you are. It's easier and cheaper in the long haul to handle some fights preemptively overseas instead of here. That, and there's also the value of stepping in and every now and then helping the little guy out.

Putin's about to crack down, it'll be interesting to see what Biden does.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I'm not hypersensitive about Biden's criticism. I just don't prefer nitpicking criticism, because you get the "Wolf!" vibe that has destroyed any dialogue with MAGA. The guy was really nitpicking.

That's not what Bandow said, though. He was critical of Biden for not affirmatively confessing weakness in international diplomacy. I agree that we should use humble language, fwiw. Like... language a professional diplomat uses.

I'm just not as binary and black and white with foreign policy as you are. It's easier and cheaper in the long haul to handle some fights preemptively overseas instead of here. That, and there's also the value of stepping in and every now and then helping the little guy out.

Putin's about to crack down, it'll be interesting to see what Biden does.

I guess we’ll just have to disagree about your Biden hypersensitivity! It’s a little late for you to assume the anti-nitpicking pose after you nitpicked poor DJT a hundred times a day for four plus years.

Further, you are nitpicking Bandow and his calling for “confessing weakness.” He meant it in the way I described. In your zeal to find something to latch onto that you could criticize you pick one of the most marshmallow things he said. Sorry, Brother, that’s a pure example of hypersensitivity!

 

[Ponca Dan]

I'm not hypersensitive about Biden's criticism. I just don't prefer nitpicking criticism, because you get the "Wolf!" vibe that has destroyed any dialogue with MAGA. The guy was really nitpicking.

That's not what Bandow said, though. He was critical of Biden for not affirmatively confessing weakness in international diplomacy. I agree that we should use humble language, fwiw. Like... language a professional diplomat uses.

I'm just not as binary and black and white with foreign policy as you are. It's easier and cheaper in the long haul to handle some fights preemptively overseas instead of here. That, and there's also the value of stepping in and every now and then helping the little guy out.

Putin's about to crack down, it'll be interesting to see what Biden does.

Here’s more opinion. But I think you will find it acceptable to read. I’ve been thinking about your objection to “nitpicking.” I think the die was cast that politicians’ words need to be carefully analyzed as soon as Bill Clinton said “It depends in what the meaning of ‘is’ is.”
Anyway, I think this guy makes sense.

Biden's Bolt From Yemen?: Symbolic Step, Systemic Limits, and Linguistic Gymnastics - Antiwar.com

The Intercept labeled it a "dramatic policy shift." And here’s hoping it’s that. Still, President Joe Biden’s announcement – during his - Maj. Danny Sjursen, USA (ret.) for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com