To All Our Friends On The Left

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
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Today is the day you have been praying for, you have control over the whole apparatus of power.

You have worried yourself sick that DJT was going to ruin this country and probably declare himself dictator. The country is still afloat and Trump is in the rear view mirror. It’s all yours!

What are you planning to do with it? What’s the agenda, the itinerary? Is there a well thought out plan of which order you intend to alter the country’s course? What do you expect the country to look like in two years? Or four years? Will we all be better off than we are today? Will we enjoy more or less liberty than the day you got power?

I know you must be delirious with joy at seeing your hated opponent shuttled into obscurity. But now it’s your time to shine. What polish do you intend to put on America to direct it toward your vision?

I’m sure you’ve put as much thought into what you’d do once you got rid of The Donald as you did in getting rid of him. What’s the plan? What do you expect to be the outcome of your plans?

And lastly, do you expect your Democrat/progressive/leftist leaders to listen to you and do what you want? Is there any possibility they will do what you worried Trump would do and ignore the people they govern and become as dictatorial as you feared Trump would become?

Are we headed toward a glorious leftist/socialist future of fantasy, or might it become something entirely different from what you anticipate? It’s all on you now! What are going to do with it?
 
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Soonersincefitty

Heisman Candidate
Oct 16, 2004
6,789
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Today is the day you have been praying for, you have control over the whole apparatus of power.

You have worried yourself sick that DJT was going to ruin this country and probably declare himself dictator. The country is still afloat and Trump is in the rear view mirror. It’s all yours!

What are you planning to do with it? What’s the agenda, the itinerary? Is there a well thought out plan of which order you intend to alter the country’s course? What do you expect the country to look like in two years? Or four years? Will we all be better off than we are today? Will we enjoy more or less liberty than the day you got power?

I know you must be delirious with joy at seeing your hated opponent shuttled into obscurity. But now it’s your time to shine. What polish do you intend to put on America to direct it toward your vision?

I’m sure you’ve put as much thought into what you’d do once you got rid of The Donald as you did in getting rid of him. What’s the plan? What do you expect to be the outcome of your plans?

And lastly, do you expect your Democrat/progressive/leftist leaders to listen to you and do what you want? Is there any possibility they will do what you worried Trump would do and ignore the people they govern and become as dictatorial as you feared Trump would become?

Are we headed toward a glorious leftist/socialist future of fantasy, or might it become something entirely different from what you anticipate? It’s all on you now! What are going to do with it?
If I may add, if you libs break it, you'll own it.
Retro blaming Orangemanbad won't cut any ice with us.
Best get your minds right about that thing.
 
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Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
It’s funny. I started a thread reminding the Trump faithful of their “misdeeds” in one aspect of their support for Trump and they pretty much came out of the woodwork to express their anger.

But I ask the leftist faithful what they expect over the next two years and I get no replies from them at all. @Syskatine, where are you with your cheery prognostication?
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
Oh, Syskatine! Oh, David! Come out, come out wherever you are! Please regale us with your political expectations for the next 2 to 4 years. It’s your team in charge now. You should know better than any of us how the glorious Democratic agenda is to be implemented. We’re all ears!
 

Syskatine

Heisman Candidate
Oct 14, 2018
10,265
4,415
113
It’s funny. I started a thread reminding the Trump faithful of their “misdeeds” in one aspect of their support for Trump and they pretty much came out of the woodwork to express their anger.

But I ask the leftist faithful what they expect over the next two years and I get no replies from them at all. @Syskatine, where are you with your cheery prognostication?

Dan, I approach this like your "regulations" analysis. I get into details and facts, not right wing bumper sticker narratives. I have no idea what to expect. I hope he can strengthen our union and make us more prosperous and increase our standing in the world.

If he'd get the vaccine rolled out it would help. That's his first real challenge, imo, and it pisses me off we're at this place. Australia has zero covid deaths this year and look at us. We've bungled this vaccine rollout so bad.
 

2012Bearcat

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Oct 30, 2010
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Dan, I approach this like your "regulations" analysis. I get into details and facts, not right wing bumper sticker narratives. I have no idea what to expect. I hope he can strengthen our union and make us more prosperous and increase our standing in the world.

If he'd get the vaccine rolled out it would help. That's his first real challenge, imo, and it pisses me off we're at this place. Australia has zero covid deaths this year and look at us. We've bungled this vaccine rollout so bad.

Why would you lie about something as easily proven a lie? There have been 909 deaths in Australia as of January 16th.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) at a glance – 18 January 2021 | Australian Government Department of Health

If Democrats had been in charge of government over the last year we wouldn't have a vaccine. Remember it would take a miracle to have a vaccine before the first of the year.
 

Syskatine

Heisman Candidate
Oct 14, 2018
10,265
4,415
113
Why would you lie about something as easily proven a lie? There have been 909 deaths in Australia as of January 16th.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) at a glance – 18 January 2021 | Australian Government Department of Health

If Democrats had been in charge of government over the last year we wouldn't have a vaccine. Remember it would take a miracle to have a vaccine before the first of the year.

This is what makes it so hard for normal people to have a dialogue. You're both so eager to nitpick, and so gd dumb, there's no way to discuss an issue.

Look at what I posted, look at what you posted, and see if you can think your way through your self-own.
 

2012Bearcat

Heisman Winner
Gold Member
Oct 30, 2010
16,265
13,628
113
This is what makes it so hard for normal people to have a dialogue. You're both so eager to nitpick, and so gd dumb, there's no way to discuss an issue.

Look at what I posted, look at what you posted, and see if you can think your way through your self-own.

You lied, I pointed it out. Solution, you need to quit lying.
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
Dan, I approach this like your "regulations" analysis. I get into details and facts, not right wing bumper sticker narratives. I have no idea what to expect. I hope he can strengthen our union and make us more prosperous and increase our standing in the world.

If he'd get the vaccine rolled out it would help. That's his first real challenge, imo, and it pisses me off we're at this place. Australia has zero covid deaths this year and look at us. We've bungled this vaccine rollout so bad.
I’ll get to the meat of your reply later when I have time. But for now I would like to address your nitpicking of the Covid issue. I assume from your comment that you blame Donald Trump for all the deaths that have been attributed to Covid in 2020. How many deaths were there, 250-300K? I saw a headline recently that there were in excess of 800K deaths in America from cardiovascular disease in 2020, 2 1/2-3 times more than from Covid. Do you blame Trump for those deaths as well? If so, please explain your rationale. If not, why not? Why would he be responsible for all the Covid deaths, but not the heart related deaths?
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
What is the date that we can start blaming President Biden for COVID deaths?
That had yet to be determined. The anonymous behind the curtain Democratic power brokers that run the show probably want to get him out ASAP before he does something incredibly stupid and hinders their plans, much preferring an equally malleable Kamala Harris to be the face of their agenda. Stay tuned.
 

Syskatine

Heisman Candidate
Oct 14, 2018
10,265
4,415
113
I assume from your comment that you blame Donald Trump for all the deaths that have been attributed to Covid in 2020.

That would be wrong.

Do you blame Trump for those deaths as well?

No. Why would I? Personal responsibility plays a big role. If I was going to engage in apportioning guilt for a covid death, I would start with the person's personal responsibility and whether they attempted to avoid it. Then, move on to who infected them, perhaps their lifestyle choices.... lots of causes outside of Trump. But he definitely, at a minimum, contributed to the pandemic with his ineffectual leadership.
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
That would be wrong.



No. Why would I? Personal responsibility plays a big role. If I was going to engage in apportioning guilt for a covid death, I would start with the person's personal responsibility and whether they attempted to avoid it. Then, move on to who infected them, perhaps their lifestyle choices.... lots of causes outside of Trump. But he definitely, at a minimum, contributed to the pandemic with his ineffectual leadership.


What precisely did you find ineffectual? What did he do you think he should not have done? What did he not do you think he should have done? And at what point did you think it? Be honest! Is your criticism based on hindsight? Dr. Fauci has been presented to the American public as the leading expert on what to do, hailed from one end of the country to the other as the person to whom we should all listen. He’s been cited by Republicans and Democrats. What advice did he give DJT that DJT ignored? What actions did DJT take that conflicted with Fauci? These are all questions that anyone who complains about DJT’s ineffectual leadership should answer honestly. That’s what I ask you to do
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
Dan, I approach this like your "regulations" analysis. I get into details and facts, not right wing bumper sticker narratives. I have no idea what to expect. I hope he can strengthen our union and make us more prosperous and increase our standing in the world.

If he'd get the vaccine rolled out it would help. That's his first real challenge, imo, and it pisses me off we're at this place. Australia has zero covid deaths this year and look at us. We've bungled this vaccine rollout so bad.


What a disappointingly vacuous response! For upwards of 4 years you have decried virtually every effort Republicans have made to enact their agenda, and not a word came out of DJT’s mouth that you didn’t criticize. Your entire demeanor has said Democrats would set this country on the right path if only they had control.

Well, now they have control. And your reaction is you don’t know what to expect from them, and are reluctant to speculate? Sheesh!

Let’s review some of the promises made by your candidate of choice. That way we can delve into some of the details you say you prefer to approach.

1). Biden signed on to the Green New Deal. Do you expect him to work hard toward its passage into law? If not all of it, will he champion parts of it? Which parts? Do you have aspects of the GND you want to see implemented, and will be mad if he fails your expectation? Do you foresee America improving from the GND? If so, what improvement do you foresee?

2). Biden told Beto he’d put him in charge of a gun confiscation program. Do you expect he will do that? If not Beto do you think he’ll tap someone else for the job of confiscation? Are you on board with him if he goes after the 2nd Amendment?

3). Since the election it appears Democrats have become emboldened to go after the 1st Amendment, some of them calling for the creation of a commission to fact check journalists/publications and shutting them down if they report non-endorsed ideas. Others have suggested MAGA supporters need reprogramming. If that becomes reality will you be good with that? Frankly it astonishes me to hear such talk coming from those on the left, as they have been among the most vociferous in condemning China for its treatment of the Moslems in their midst. But it appears exactly such a fate is desired for MAGA adherents if some of your Democratic brethren get their way. You good with that?

There I have proffered 3 specifics - details, if you will - that I would be interested in knowing if you think Biden and the party he leads will pursue. And if they do pursue it are you in agreement with them? And if they are successful in any (or all) of those three things do you see that as an improvement in the country?

Mainly I am curious if you think at the end of the Biden/Harris reign individuals in America will have more liberty or less than we have now.
 

Syskatine

Heisman Candidate
Oct 14, 2018
10,265
4,415
113
What precisely did you find ineffectual? What did he do you think he should not have done? What did he not do you think he should have done? And at what point did you think it? Be honest! Is your criticism based on hindsight? Dr. Fauci has been presented to the American public as the leading expert on what to do, hailed from one end of the country to the other as the person to whom we should all listen. He’s been cited by Republicans and Democrats. What advice did he give DJT that DJT ignored? What actions did DJT take that conflicted with Fauci? These are all questions that anyone who complains about DJT’s ineffectual leadership should answer honestly. That’s what I ask you to do

Do I have to answer all 7 questions?

Dan, I'm not an expert, but I recall him lying and gaslighting and criticizing states instead of mounting a strong response like other countries did. Australia has zero deaths this year. NZ hasn't had near the problems. Multiple asian and european countries have had a drop of what we've had.

Here's a list if you're really interested. Most of this stuff was widely reported on at the time, though.

EsR8tI3XMAE99Oi
 

22LR

All-American
Dec 1, 2015
4,786
14,595
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Do I have to answer all 7 questions?

Dan, I'm not an expert, but I recall him lying and gaslighting and criticizing states instead of mounting a strong response like other countries did. Australia has zero deaths this year. NZ hasn't had near the problems. Multiple asian and european countries have had a drop of what we've had.

Here's a list if you're really interested. Most of this stuff was widely reported on at the time, though.

EsR8tI3XMAE99Oi

TIMELINE 2019:

Late November - coronavirus appears and starts spreading in China undetected

Early December - coronavirus continues to spread silently.

4 December According to an official document on the website of United States House of Representatives, the House was fully briefed on the "largest pandemic exercise" ever to take place in the U.S. The exercise found that additional funding would likely be required. And that U.S. lacks sufficient domestic manufacturing capacity and/or raw materials for "needles, syringes, masks and personal protective equipment." The report notes that "In a pandemic global manufacturing capacity will likely not be sufficient to meet demand resulting in an inability to import adequate quantities." The report is fully ignored and impeachment is pushed instead.


5 December, Speaker Pelosi authorizes the Judiciary Committee to begin drafting articles of impeachment.

12 December "A new viral outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan, China."

13 December The Judiciary Committee votes along party lines to pass articles of impeachment

18 December The formal impeachment vote by the full House of Representatives passes by Democrat votes to approve articles of impeachment

26 December, coronavirus becomes detected then identified in a lab in China. Determined to be "most closely related to a bat SARS-like coronavirus". This is not widely publicized by China at the time

30 December Hero doctor Li Wenliang warns colleagues of the appearance of a new disease resembling SARS, a previous devastating outbreak. Chinese police promptly arrest him for "rumor mongering", he later contracted COVID-19 and died aged 33.

2020

2 January First large cluster of cases are laboratory confirmed in China 66% of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market where the virus first appeared.

5 January 59 cases under treatment with 7 in critical condition

7 January The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issues a travel notice Monday for travelers to Wuhan, Hubei province, China due to the cluster of cases of pneumonia

8 January Coronavirus discovery is officially announced by scientists in China. South Korea announces first possible case and immediately isolates a traveler from Wuhan.

9 January WHO confirms existence of novel coronavirus.

11 January First known death from coronavirus

15 January the articles are formally delivered to the Senate. Pelosi uses special commemorative pens to sign for delivery.

16 January articles are presented formally to the Senate. Senate is forced to set aside all other matters under the constitution. Senate is fully disabled for the duration and can deal with no other matters, as they are considered less important than impeachment.

23 January. China places 60 million people under quarantine and locks Wuhan off completely. The largest such measure in human history up to that point. Every politician and media figure is meanwhile fixated on opening arguments of the impeachment managers

23-30 January. Impeachment arguments continue with often live coverage for several hours per day. It's taking up close to 100% of all time and attention for politicians and media. Meanwhile China expands travel restrictions and other measures to hundreds of millions of citizens.

Cars are banned in Wuhan for private use and anyone with a fever is taken to forced isolation.

31 January: Senate holds vote on allowing further witnesses. Mitt Romney and all Democrats vote for witnesses without limitations. The impeachment trial could still be going on if this vote went through, disabling the Senate and any ability of the U.S. to react with legislation for months on end

31 January President Trump imposes a full travel ban to and from China. This not only includes citizens of China but of other countries as well who traveled there. This is one of the strongest and earliest measures taken. The media and Democrats immediately condemn the ban, many calling it racist. Joe Biden calls the ban "hysterical xenophobia" the same day it was announced.

5 February The Senate acquits President Trump finally ending the impeachment hoax which dominated U.S. attention at the most critical time, when the outbreak was still in its early stages.

5 February Mitt Romney votes for one of the articles ensuring that media attention is on his vote and his speech outlining reasons for it. This means the media is focused on impeachment for at least another week instead of the coronavirus .

Impeachment discussions continues to dominate less but still very significant amounts of media attention in February sucking away oxygen from other topics such as the coronavirus.

Sources for the dates:

Timeline of coronavirus pandemic 1 - January https://archive.vn/wSx3E

Timeline of coronavirus pandemic 2 - February https://archive.is/StIdR

Timeline of coronavirus pandemic 3 - March https://archive.vn/uCYLx

Impeachment dates

Sources on impeachment dates 1 https://archive.is/ovuu0

Sources on impeachment dates 2 https://archive.is/N8OUm
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
Do I have to answer all 7 questions?

Dan, I'm not an expert, but I recall him lying and gaslighting and criticizing states instead of mounting a strong response like other countries did. Australia has zero deaths this year. NZ hasn't had near the problems. Multiple asian and european countries have had a drop of what we've had.

Here's a list if you're really interested. Most of this stuff was widely reported on at the time, though.

EsR8tI3XMAE99Oi
Okay, so you’re not an expert, but you feel you have enough expertise to say Trump’s leadership was ineffectual. Fauci was the universally acknowledged expert and Trump followed his advice pretty much down the line. So should we not say it was Fauci that was ineffectual?

The governments in the countries you cited took a pretty harsh authoritarian approach, certainly not an approach consistent with a society of free people. Is it the authoritarian/coercive attack on liberty that you recommended Trump endorse? And is that what you recommended at the time, or is yours a newfound policy based on hindsight?

The link you provided is not in the least objective, but rather something scrabbled together by a person or organization with an antiTrump bias.

No, Sys, you don’t have to answer any of the questions. I never expected you to do so in the first place. You have a habit of skirting around questions you find uncomfortable, questions that make you justify trivialities you spout like “Trump was ineffective.”

But that’s okay. You are what you are, and I have always enjoyed our conversations.

I do wish you’d answer one question. It should be an easy one to answer. I’ll ask it again: at the end of the Biden/Harris time in office do you think Americans will have as much individual liberty as we have today?
 

osuintx

All-American
Gold Member
Jan 31, 2004
4,842
2,507
113
Dan, I approach this like your "regulations" analysis. I get into details and facts, not right wing bumper sticker narratives. I have no idea what to expect. I hope he can strengthen our union and make us more prosperous and increase our standing in the world.

If he'd get the vaccine rolled out it would help. That's his first real challenge, imo, and it pisses me off we're at this place. Australia has zero covid deaths this year and look at us. We've bungled this vaccine rollout so bad.
We have zero COVID deaths also- their media is just not as big of Liars as ours
 

Soonersincefitty

Heisman Candidate
Oct 16, 2004
6,789
17,609
113
This is what makes it so hard for normal people to have a dialogue. You're both so eager to nitpick, and so gd dumb, there's no way to discuss an issue.

Look at what I posted, look at what you posted, and see if you can think your way through your self-own.
Well, with you it's equally as difficult to follow the Robert's rules of order.

Hypocritical much?
The temerity to call someone dumb?

Wow, just wow.
 

Ponca Dan

Heisman Candidate
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
10,113
7,793
113
Okay, so you’re not an expert, but you feel you have enough expertise to say Trump’s leadership was ineffectual. Fauci was the universally acknowledged expert and Trump followed his advice pretty much down the line. So should we not say it was Fauci that was ineffectual?

The governments in the countries you cited took a pretty harsh authoritarian approach, certainly not an approach consistent with a society of free people. Is it the authoritarian/coercive attack on liberty that you recommended Trump endorse? And is that what you recommended at the time, or is yours a newfound policy based on hindsight?

The link you provided is not in the least objective, but rather something scrabbled together by a person or organization with an antiTrump bias.

No, Sys, you don’t have to answer any of the questions. I never expected you to do so in the first place. You have a habit of skirting around questions you find uncomfortable, questions that make you justify trivialities you spout like “Trump was ineffective.”

But that’s okay. You are what you are, and I have always enjoyed our conversations.

I do wish you’d answer one question. It should be an easy one to answer. I’ll ask it again: at the end of the Biden/Harris time in office do you think Americans will have as much individual liberty as we have today?


Well, I posted this question about 3 and a half hours ago and I see you are avoiding answering. I suppose it’s because you know fully as well as I do the answer is no, the American people will not enjoy today’s level of liberty in two or four years. And you know fully as well as I do that the authoritarianism that will be brought down upon us will be brought by your team, the Democrats.

I wonder at what point you will ‘fess up and publicly say your team poses a clear danger to the survival of the American way of life. When you do make that confession I will know that maybe - it’s a long shot - but maybe we can wrestle back our liberty, because if you, one of the truest of believers, finally see the truth then maybe that will be a sign that the other believers like yourself have finally - finally! - come to your collective senses.
 

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