This is the thread where @ponca Dan acknowledges tariffs as a negotiating tactic
- Thread starter CBradSmith
- Start date
Look out, Dan. He’s feeling pretty cocky....
I’m not sure what you’re looking for. You want me to acknowledge that Donald Trump views tariffs as a negotiating tactic? Yes, I acknowledge he wants us all to think they’re a negotiating tactic. I acknowledge he probably thinks they are.
Not sure about it as a go to move in every case but, Mexico blinked.
The mere threat of tariffs worked.
Major victory for Trump.
Major, humiliating defeat for his haters.
I like it.
The mere threat of tariffs worked.
Major victory for Trump.
Major, humiliating defeat for his haters.
I like it.
C'mon man ..
You may not be an economist, but you certainly don't shy from playing one.
What kind of mumbo jumbo is this response? And are you not a mind reader now in addition to not being an economist?
I’m sure you know more about it than me. To be honest I don’t pay that much attention. But I posted a link the other day that explained the things the Mexican government has been doing to try and stem the tide. I posted the link because it was the first time I’d seen where they did anything to stem the tide. Conservative pundits and places like Fox News had given me the impression they had not taken a single action. So I was surprised to see I had been misled. Anyway, as I said then I’m sure most Americans would think it was not enough.
I bring this up to make two points. First, Mexico has attempted in the past to stop immigrants at their southern border. For all we know this was an attempt that had been in the planning stages before Trump’s threat. Second, I thought I read the caravan consisted of about 1200 people, and Mexico had “captured” about 400 of them while the remaining 800 have gone unaccounted for. I have no idea if this is accurate. Perhaps you are following closely and can provide clarity?
It is a common governmental tactic (and a tactic which DJT uses in excess IMO) to make a demand and then declare its demand has been met, even if it hasn’t in reality, DJT made such a declaration on his insistence to renegotiate the “terrible” NAFTA deal. From what I’ve read the new deal is really no more than window dressing on the old one, but it gives the Trump administration the opportunity to tell its base what tough negotiators they are. It is possible the new “crackdown” by the Mexican government is the same kind of manipulation.
I’m curious what you think,
No, Brad, I’m neither a mind reader nor an economist, just a simple minded business man in flyover Oklahoma. I cannot read your mind and I do not know what you are talking about. But I’ll be happy to discuss it with you if you would be so kind as to explain.
I sincerely doubt that I know more than anyone here. Thanks just the same.
Lacking for any help from a resistance Congress, and many from DJTs own party, if you don't overthink this, it's something that could help to stop the bleeding, or slow it down.
100,000 a month, every month are coming across. That isn't sustainable.
Hungry for, looking for any viable reason to think this stupidity can be stopped.
So, I'll take it and hope for more little triumphs to come.
That's how I roll.
The point is probably that Donald Trump is smarter than you. Also, brad called you out because you post numerous negative articles about trump. You are wrong and can’t even admit it. Pretty sad actually
Please be so kind as to point out my errors. Brad seems to be unwilling or unable to do so, beyond telling me I’m wrong. I can’t seem to get him to make his case. Perhaps you would do it for him? I will attempt to defend my argument as reasonably and non-insultingly as possible. But I can’t defend if I’m blind of the charge.
For crying out loud, Brad, I have been making my case and attempting to defend it against all comers for a long time. I am more than willing to hear your case and have a reasonable conversation. Isn’t that the main purpose for this board? You seem so sure I am completely wrong about almost everything I have said, and I have tried to respond in all civility. Now it’s time for you to take your stand and defend it as I have done. Seems only fair. Besides, I am frequently arguing one against three or four. I’m sure your compatriots will be willing to stand with you and strengthen any point you make. I’m calling it a night. I’ll check back in tomorrow and we can continue if you want.
Looks like the threat of tariffs not only work, they work fast.
Donald Trump Announces Migration Deal with Mexico
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/07/donald-trump-announces-migration-deal-with-mexico/
Donald Trump Announces Migration Deal with Mexico
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/06/07/donald-trump-announces-migration-deal-with-mexico/
Can someone point me to the land of free trade and consumers get the best price on everything world Dan talks about?
I want to live there, it sounds so wonderful but I'm having a hard time finding it on a map. So if someone would just point me in the right direction I'll be there in a heartbeat.
I want to live there, it sounds so wonderful but I'm having a hard time finding it on a map. So if someone would just point me in the right direction I'll be there in a heartbeat.
Unfortunately there does not exist such a place. The closest humanity has ever come to a land of free trade was 19th century America which saw an explosion of prosperity never before seen in human history. As one might expect the statists among us could not resist stepping in and growing government, especially their desire to interfere in the economy because they were certain they could do better. It’s been a slow train of increasing turmoil since.
No advocate of free markets claims free markets guarantee they will “get consumers the best price on everything.” Free markets are free-wheeling, anarchic, and often appear as unregulated chaos. That’s part of the reason statists so desire to have control, they cannot stand to see anything that’s appears messy.
What advocates of free markets do say is free markets are the economic application of liberty, that liberty should be the singular political focus of a society, and that free markets give humanity the best chance at progress and prosperity. No amount of ridicule by you or anyone else (quite the perfect Alinsky tactic, by the way) can alter that fact.
Big fan of the free market concept. However, it doesn’t change the fact...
Threats of tariffs as a negotiating tool clearly worked. What’s so hard about tipping the cap to that in hindsight Dan?
I'd be happy as a dog with two peters if a Trump detractor would admit Trump ACCIDENTALLY had a victory of his own making.
fantastic thread explaining the tariffs
key point here
key point here
I am man enough to admit when I am wrong. I don’t retract a single word I have said about the harmful effects America would feel from Trump’s tariffs. However many of you assured me it was only a bargaining tool Trump was using to get Mexico to roll over, and it worked! Mexico has completely capitulated! Trump very publicly - VERY publicly - said he would not remove the tariffs until Mexico completely - COMPLETELY!!! - stopped the inflow of illegal immigrants to our border. Well, he announced he will not implement the tariffs. That can mean only one thing: the stream is now dammed up! No more illegals gumming up our border! Those of you that have been complaining ad nauseam about this horrific scandal have scored a spectacular victory now get to poke those of us who questioned Trump’s tactics in the chest with a big “told you so.” I’m personally very happy to see this situation resolved so quickly, and I can’t help but wonder at the scales that have covered my eyes. They’re gone now, and I can see what you have been saying all this time! In Trump we have full confidence! Who in their right mind could have ever thought he could entirely eliminate the scourge of illegal immigration with one magic wave of his tariff-wielding wand? I have to hand it to him, and bow down before the superior knowledge of those who never question a thing he says or does. You were right and I was wrong! I wonder: will it bother you that now there will never be another illegal entrant from our southern border that you can’t ever complain about it again? Now that Mexico will stop ALL illegal entrants before they get here can we forget about the wall?
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You don't do sarcasm well. at. all.
Your smug false dichotomy argument in absolutes is trite and well, frankly dumb. Either it is totally 100% effective or it wasn't worth doing. Just simplistic for such an enlightened individual as yourself.
Your smug false dichotomy argument in absolutes is trite and well, frankly dumb. Either it is totally 100% effective or it wasn't worth doing. Just simplistic for such an enlightened individual as yourself.
I’m not following you. What false dichotomy? What are you talking about? Trump said the tariffs would stay in effect until the surge was completely eliminated. Then his team announced a deal has been struck and therefore the tariffs are not needed. What other conclusion is one to make other than the deal assures the surge is now completely eliminated?
Are you suggesting the public is being played for fools? Being manipulated by the master manipulator, and he dropped the tariffs even though the surge might continue? But that’s not what he said, is it? You mean this is another “Mexico will pay for the wall” moment? Would Trump lie to us twice? Please clarify! I don’t want to retract my humiliating mea culpa. I have admitted you were right all along. Please don’t make me change my mind back to its original opinion!
Again, you aren't good at this. Correcting you isn't enjoyable for me since you'll just continue to play dumb. However at this point I'm unsure it is playing. Being your family must be exhausting. I can't imagine having to deal with this much continual smug self-righteousness all the while being on the wrong side of the facts.
Dude I know it hurts but have an ounce of humility.
It's ridiculous to think illegal immigration will stop. Emphasis on "ILLEGAL" against the law, get it? You want open boarders work to change the LAW!
But by any measure Trump has at least got Mexico to agree to take measures to stop the flow through their country. Mexico is notoriously unreliable so we'll see if they follow through but this is win for Trump and poo poo it all you want but at least the man is doing something which is more than anyone else has come close to doing.
I'd still like more clarity on why you believe unlimited access to America from uneducated, unskilled, poor Central and South Americans is good for this country.
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You have a nasty habit of insisting you’re correcting peoples’ “facts” by saying they’re wrong, following that up with insults and thinking to yourself that is all you need to say. As if you think your opinion is the only one that matters, and if anyone disagrees with you it is only necessary for you to insult them, but not necessary to show any errors you detect. I think you have said you are in your middle to late forties, but the sad fact is you show the emotional growth of a prepubescent teenage boy.
But, now that I’ve given you a small taste of your own medicine, let me say: lighten up! We disagree over political issues, big deal. Neither one of us has the slightest control or influence over one single issue. Getting all emotional with each other is fruitless. We can disagree amicably just as easily as combatively. I suggest we disagree amicably!
Is that a compliment? You mean astonishing because I am man enough to admit you were right and I was wrong? If that’s what you mean, thank you!
This is going to be my last post to you.
You claim to want a dialog on the subjects. Yet, every time someone contradicts you with actual real world facts you just ignore them and move on with your ideology. Then claim it is based in facts. Then when further corrected you try to be snarky and sarcastic - generally failing miserably.
Maybe when everyone on this board don't want to have a real conversation with you - maybe, just maybe it is you and not the rest of the board. I know I'm being an asshole to you. You, on the other hand, don't have that same introspection.
I'm unfamiliar with admitting I'm wrong and your right by giving a diatribe of sarcasm.
I have to reevaluate how I've done it in the past. I'm going to try this with my spouse I think she'll really appreciate it.
Thinking back on it I’m not sure I’ve ever agreed with a single thing opined by syskatine, Pokeabear, pilt, CSCOTT, my_2cents or any other leftist that has graced this board. But syskatine, at least, has hammered home a consistent message: too many right-wingers on this board are too much in lock step with each other, so much so that one can’t help but wonder who is feeding them their opinions. It is completely dismissed by those he so describes, but the truth is he has a point.
Right-wingers on this board are quick to identify the ideological intolerance exhibited by the left, and rightly so. But when the mirror is held up to them the reaction is identical to their leftist opponents: ridicule, insult, belittle, besmirch and seek to destroy.
Syskatine, for all his flaws has made a feeble attempt to persuade them to do a little soul searching. In my own quixotic (smug, arrogant, unhumble) way I have occasionally sought to do the same thing.
I do not fault DJT for trying to resolve an issue. But when I perceive his resolution to be in error I’m going to say so. When I perceive obvious manipulation of the truth I’m going to point it out, especially to those who appear to be so easily manipulated, which, regrettably appears to be a sizable chunk of those posting on this board. Of course it will make me unpopular, and of course those who have retained a teenage emotional mentality will respond with ad hominem and insults. I’m a big boy, I wear big boy pants, I can survive. What I hold out hope is there may be someone listening who thinks maybe I have a point, and will give it some objective thought.
This is just a silly message board on which political opinions are expressed. The conversation doesn’t always have to be angry and confrontational. That seems to elude some people on this board.
Sarcasm at its best! I could learn a thing or two from you! Two thumbs way up!
The problem I have encountered with you is you almost never provide the real world facts of which you speak. You say things I have said are wrong, you’ve said my words (and by extension my person) are insane, you have called me a liar. You have posted your opinions as fact, but almost never have you supported your opinion with actual facts. You make it very difficult to carry on an actual conversation. You react almost immediately with emotional outpourings, and when I don’t reciprocate with an equal amount of emotional outrage you insist it is impossible to talk to me because I don’t agree with you! We disagree with each other! For some reason you think I am supposed to fall on my sword and beg you to forgive me for being so wrong. But you rarely show my error. You just launch into an emotional gun fight. That’s not my style. It seems to bother you far more than it should. And it bothers you far far more than it does me. You can interpret this as smug or arrogant or however you want. But I’m just telling you that’s the view from my side of the table.
Okay, you lured me in.
So when I say that China stole 1.5 Billion in intellectual property for the creation of new batteries from the company I work for or that Venezuela nationalized Billions of our assets, those aren't facts? Bull Crap. They just aren't facts you agree with that suit your narrative. There is no real world way to recover those losses.
When you see China making new, better batteries on the cheap, remember this post. If America puts a tariff or even moratorium on those products and you decry it as wrong - you can piss off because you are basically endorsing the sale of stolen goods. What does that make you other than a thief?
You are intellectually dishonest. Now I'm done.
