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The Wall.

MegaPoke

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May 29, 2001
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First, I think Roger Waters or David Gilmore should pay for it.

Second, I predict that it's going to get built and become a massive energy magnet for protesters and publicity starved celebrities etc.

Not sure if it's part of the wall's purpose, but it will become a big salt lick in the middle of the desert - a symbol of division. where concerts and marches will be held and energies will be spent.

Sure, it'll also help slow down illegal immigration (probably), but is the wall in fact going to be the ultimate Trump troll?
 
If a primary policy position is really just (or even primarily) Giant trollbait....is that a good or a bad sign?

Can serve as both.

And if "good" results appear downstream, then protesters look like idiots.

If anything, I think it forces people to drill down to what they really value. Too many operate from the luxury of not having to take (or defend) a hard position. "I am for the wall bc...." "I am against the wall bc....."
 
Can serve as both.

And if "good" results appear downstream, then protesters look like idiots.

If anything, I think it forces people to drill down to what they really value. Too many operate from the luxury of not having to take (or defend) a hard position. "I am for the wall bc...." "I am against the wall bc....."

Sure it "could" serve as both equally, but that wasn't the hypothetical I proposed.

Mega raised the possibility that the primary success of the wall would be as the ultimate troll. If that is true is that a good thing or a bad?
 
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Sure it "could" serve as both equally, but that wasn't the hypothetical I proposed.

Mega raised the possibility that the primary success of the wall would be as the ultimate troll. If that is true is that a good thing or a bad?

In my humble and yet most accurate opinion, trolling is always good.
 
During college I worked summers and Christmases on a cotton farm near Columbus, New Mexico, 6 miles north of the border.

Obreros crossed pretty much back and forth daily at will. BP tracked them by air. They chopped cotton, living in abandoned barns, adobes, irrigation ditches or anywhere they could spread a tarp and build a fire.. When BP came around they'd flee like ants, hiding in cotton rows or under mesquites..One day a BP agent came out of the little adobe shack and told me and my brother, "Tell your Mexicans we turned down their beans."

Would a wall stop that traffic? Probably so.

How many American jobs would be created? I imagine a LOT. If it puts Americans to work building it and people on border in Tx,NM,Az,CA are for it--I got no problem with it.

I'm all for infrastructure projects. I love Trump talking about rebuilding bridges, highways, railroads, airports, hospitals, a wall (I guess) etc. We got to pay for it though. (Will Mexico REALLLY pay for that wall? POTUS promised they will). Congress under Obama was against that kind of funding...Going to get real interesting methinks...

BTW in Columbus my brother and I we're given nicknames by our dad and the patron: he was Mex 2, I was Mex 1...
 
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If the wall if "valued" as a troll alone, then that presumes it does not have tangible positive affect.

What if the Iraq war was a giant troll.

Or Obamacare.

Frankly, the parameters of your "ask" are insufficient in how ambiguous all elements are in the structure and wording of your query, including the values placed in competing "ends" and the underlying assumptions.
 
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During college I worked summers and Christmases on a cotton farm near Columbus, New Mexico, 6 miles north of the border.

Obreros crossed pretty much back and forth daily at will. BP tracked them by air. They chopped cotton, living in abandoned barns, adobes, irrigation ditches or anywhere they could spread a tarp and build a fire.. One day a BP agent came out of the little adobe shack and told me and my brother, "Tell your Mexicans we turned down their beans."

Would a wall stop that traffic? Probably so.

How many American jobs would be created? I imagine a LOT. If it puts Americans to work building it and people on border in Tx,NM,Az,CA are for it--I got no problem with it.

I'm all for infrastructure projects. I love Trump talking about rebuilding bridges, highways, railroads, airports, hospitals, a wall (I guess) etc. We got to pay for it though. (Will Mexico REALLLY pay for that wall? POTUS promised they will). Congress under Obama was against that kind of funding...Going to get real interesting methinks...
CUP, is that you?
 
During college I worked summers and Christmases on a cotton farm near Columbus, New Mexico, 6 miles north of the border.

Obreros crossed pretty much back and forth daily at will. BP tracked them by air. They chopped cotton, living in abandoned barns, adobes, irrigation ditches or anywhere they could spread a tarp and build a fire.. One day a BP agent came out of the little adobe shack and told me and my brother, "Tell your Mexicans we turned down their beans."

Would a wall stop that traffic? Probably so.

How many American jobs would be created? I imagine a LOT. If it puts Americans to work building it and people on border in Tx,NM,Az,CA are for it--I got no problem with it.

I'm all for infrastructure projects. I love Trump talking about rebuilding bridges, highways, railroads, airports, hospitals, a wall (I guess) etc. We got to pay for it though. (Will Mexico REALLLY pay for that wall? POTUS promised they will). Congress under Obama was against that kind of funding...Going to get real interesting methinks...

No applying proposed outcomes other than only serving as a troll. /blue

Thoughtful response, @CowboyUp
 
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If a primary policy position is really just (or even primarily) Giant trollbait....is that a good or a bad sign?

Good question but I didn't intend to suggest the wall itself has a primary physical purpose of trolling, I think it's for what he says it's for, but either by design or chance, it became a divisive topic that I think he's since purposely played up as a troll and in the end could become a massive energy suck for his opposition and I'm sure that's occurred to Bannon.
 
If the wall if "valued" as a troll alone, then that presumes it does not have tangible positive affect.

What if the Iraq war was a giant troll.

Or Obamacare.

Frankly, the parameters of your "ask" are insufficient in how ambiguous all elements are in the structure and wording of your query, including the values placed in competing "ends" and the underlying assumptions.

What if the position is PRIMARILY as a troll/trollbait?

ISN'T ambiguous and contains no underlying assumptions.

It's you that are trying to insert all the qualifiers and ambiguity.

It's cool if you don't have an answer or want to answer the actual question without qualification.

It wasn't a claim that it IS primarily a troll/troll bait or even an assumption that it is all just a giant troll. It was a question. If you want to read conclusions by me that I haven't made, that's on you.

I mean, I keep hearing how Trump is a master troll. Then I see a suggestion that on my first read seemed to be saying this might be the ultimate troll and that it's affect on illegal immigration was secondary.

I asked if that was a good thing or not?

Mega has since clarified with:

Good question but I didn't intend to suggest the wall itself has a primary physical purpose of trolling, I think it's for what he says it's for, but either by design or chance, it became a divisive topic that I think he's since purposely played up as a troll and in the end could become a massive energy suck for his opposition and I'm sure that's occurred to Bannon.

Stating that it wasn't his intent to suggest the wall itself has a primary purpose of trolling....which kind of makes my question to his statement moot.

In response to his clarification, I would say that it doesn't take a master troll to recognize that a border wall is going to be divisive. Furthermore, if anything he's played down his original position of what it will actually entail (might be a fence in some places). Finally, I don't think we'll see it become an energy magnet/salt lick with concerts at the wall and such. I think progressives will continue running around like chickens with their heads cut off following their own sectional individual pet outrages.

I don't thing Trump's primary political strength is trolling and leading progressives where he wants them to go. I think his primary political strength is his ability to have a fairly coherent messsge of "jobs, jobs, jobs" and fashion/portray all policy positions through that lens. Basically, Trump has a single solution response to any criticism.....JOBS....we're all gonna make lots of money....and that's a powerful carrot.

The more interesting potential opponents that I am watching to see how he handles is the still present block of new-cons, libertarian leaning, and establishment Republicans at the Capitol. Steam rolling progressive actions by changing executive orders and memoranda is easy.
 
What if the position is PRIMARILY as a troll/trollbait?

ISN'T ambiguous and contains no underlying assumptions.

It's you that are trying to insert all the qualifiers and ambiguity.

It's cool if you don't have an answer or want to answer the actual question without qualification.

It wasn't a claim that it IS primarily a troll/troll bait or even an assumption that it is all just a giant troll. It was a question. If you want to read conclusions by me that I haven't made, that's on you.

I mean, I keep hearing how Trump is a master troll. Then I see a suggestion that on my first read seemed to be saying this might be the ultimate troll and that it's affect on illegal immigration was secondary.

I asked if that was a good thing or not?

Mega has since clarified with:



Stating that it wasn't his intent to suggest the wall itself has a primary purpose of trolling....which kind of makes my question to his statement moot.

In response to his clarification, I would say that it doesn't take a master troll to recognize that a border wall is going to be divisive. Furthermore, if anything he's played down his original position of what it will actually entail (might be a fence in some places). Finally, I don't think we'll see it become an energy magnet/salt lick with concerts at the wall and such. I think progressives will continue running around like chickens with their heads cut off following their own sectional individual pet outrages.

I don't thing Trump's primary political strength is trolling and leading progressives where he wants them to go. I think his primary political strength is his ability to have a fairly coherent messsge of "jobs, jobs, jobs" and fashion/portray all policy positions through that lens. Basically, Trump has a single solution response to any criticism.....JOBS....we're all gonna make lots of money....and that's a powerful carrot.

The more interesting potential opponents that I am watching to see how he handles is the still present block of new-cons, libertarian leaning, and establishment Republicans at the Capitol. Steam rolling progressive actions by changing executive orders and memoranda is easy.

Great post!

One I can't see any disagreement with.
 
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The wall won't work unless it was a 20 foot cement underground foundation.
 
What if the position is PRIMARILY as a troll/trollbait?

ISN'T ambiguous and contains no underlying assumptions.

It's you that are trying to insert all the qualifiers and ambiguity.

It's cool if you don't have an answer or want to answer the actual question without qualification.

It wasn't a claim that it IS primarily a troll/troll bait or even an assumption that it is all just a giant troll. It was a question. If you want to read conclusions by me that I haven't made, that's on you.

I mean, I keep hearing how Trump is a master troll. Then I see a suggestion that on my first read seemed to be saying this might be the ultimate troll and that it's affect on illegal immigration was secondary.

I asked if that was a good thing or not?

Mega has since clarified with:



Stating that it wasn't his intent to suggest the wall itself has a primary purpose of trolling....which kind of makes my question to his statement moot.

In response to his clarification, I would say that it doesn't take a master troll to recognize that a border wall is going to be divisive. Furthermore, if anything he's played down his original position of what it will actually entail (might be a fence in some places). Finally, I don't think we'll see it become an energy magnet/salt lick with concerts at the wall and such. I think progressives will continue running around like chickens with their heads cut off following their own sectional individual pet outrages.

I don't thing Trump's primary political strength is trolling and leading progressives where he wants them to go. I think his primary political strength is his ability to have a fairly coherent messsge of "jobs, jobs, jobs" and fashion/portray all policy positions through that lens. Basically, Trump has a single solution response to any criticism.....JOBS....we're all gonna make lots of money....and that's a powerful carrot.

The more interesting potential opponents that I am watching to see how he handles is the still present block of new-cons, libertarian leaning, and establishment Republicans at the Capitol. Steam rolling progressive actions by changing executive orders and memoranda is easy.

To answer, if it's primarily a troll, then I think that's bad.

To "win" the troll he'd have to have those clamoring against it absorb a cost greater than his own cost.

If he backs down from the wall, "they won."

If he builds it for little other reason than to troll, then that's a poor allocation of resources...and he still stands the chance of nothing positive emerging from a newly minted wall down the road. At that point, it just becomes a symbol of Republican divisiveness, racism, and poor decision making, akin to the perception of the Iraq war.

As a troll alone, I think the risks outweigh the payoff.
 
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Has been for a few months at least.
I agree with not a lot of what Trump campaigned on, but my side lost.
As they say, elections have consequences.
I hope the man is a good listener and uniter, and has a successful presidency, because that will mean Americans will be working together and the planet needs for America to be strong.
He's got a lot on his plate.
Godspeed Trump!
And be a little bit humble--a lot of good has been accomplished in your office since 1793.
Hail to the Chief!
 
I agree with not a lot of what Trump campaigned on, but my side lost.
As they say, elections have consequences.
I hope the man is a good listener and uniter, and has a successful presidency, because that will mean Americans will be working together and the planet needs for America to be strong.
He's got a lot on his plate.
Godspeed Trump!
And be a little bit humble--a lot of good has been accomplished in your office since 1793.
Hail to the Chief!

You are infuriating @HighStickHarry with posts like this.
 
I'm all for infrastructure projects. I love Trump talking about rebuilding bridges, highways, railroads, airports, hospitals, a wall (I guess) etc. We got to pay for it though. (Will Mexico REALLLY pay for that wall? POTUS promised they will). Congress under Obama was against that kind of funding...Going to get real interesting methinks...

Kind of like the building of the Autobahns
 
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