The true issue in this Kav/Ford situation is....

[CBradSmith]

When does the moderate Left start denouncing (AND distancing themselves from) the environment created by the Progressive Left?

The environment that believes lying, in any and every situation, is fine and dandy, as long as the Ends are met?

That misrepresentation of reality supersedes growing as a person (lying to oneself - manifesting itself in the segment of grown adults STILL behaving as sniveling babies simply bc they were shocked at an electoral result)?

That fake news is okay?

That egregious demonization is a tool?

That politics is appropriate to bring in to every avenue of life?

This lying can be found in every fiber of the Progressive and far Left culture.

It's time to force them to either articulate their positions without throwing tantrums, or it's time they be relegated back to the fringe.

Personally, Iean right. But I very much would like to help @Medic007 , David Rubin, the #walkaway guy, etc, etc reclaim their party.

 

[JimmyBob]

reclaim their party.

Uh, don't hold your breath.

 

[Rdcldad]

this is darwin at work

you look at who voted for otard in 8
what he did in 8 years
and where moderates are now

 

[windriverrange]

When do they start demanding Keith Ellison be held accountable on far more solid evidence then this bimbo has?

 

[imprimis]

When do they start demanding Keith Ellison be held accountable on far more solid evidence then this bimbo has?

Never. He's democrat, black, and Muslim. The trifecta of untouchability.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Never. He's democrat, black, and Muslim. The trifecta of untouchability.

Penis hurts him in total points.

 

[CowboyUp]

When does the moderate Right start denouncing (AND distancing themselves from) the environment created by the Communist-loving Trump Right?

The environment that believes lying, in any and every situation, is fine and dandy, as long as the Ends are met?

That misrepresentation of reality supersedes growing as a person (lying to oneself - manifesting itself in the segment of grown adults STILL behaving as sniveling babies)?

That fake news is okay?

That egregious demonization is a tool?

That politics is appropriate to bring in to every avenue of life?

This lying can be found in every fiber of the Commie Trump and Far Right culture.

Good points!!!

 

[CowboyUp]

Brad, landfills all over America full of what you’re peddling: GARBAGE

 

[AC_Exotic]

Good points!!!

You miss the point. Lots of conservatives have expressed their distaste re: Trump's dishonesty.

 

[CBradSmith]

Good points!!!

CUP, what's your hot take on Keith Ellison?
What about Mendez?

What about all the fruity nuts looking to start fights?

And, why on God's (Christian God) green earth, did you try to misrepresent our original bet when we were discussing it in the early stages?

In fact, just skip to that last part. That's the systemic falsehood peddling I'm referring to that has crept into your groupthink.

....say anything, mean nothing, as long as you get what you want.

 

[Medic007]

Personally, Iean right. But I very much would like to help @Medic007 , David Rubin, the #walkaway guy, etc, etc reclaim their party.

There is no reclaiming of the party from a national perspective. It's too late for that. People like me will be voting for our values, not a political party. I've come to accept that I will likely have to vote for a candidate that is mostly aligned with my values while having some points of disagreement.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Good points!!!

How many get changed when the FISA, texts and emails come out?

 

[aix_xpert]

How many of these 'false' statements are simply hyperbole that the media has run with as if its Billy Graham's gospel.

 

[CBradSmith]

How many of these 'false' statements are simply hyperbole that the media has run with as if its Billy Graham's gospel.

What's that quote, because what you cite certainly plays a part.

Here it is from billionaire entrepreneur Thiel:

"I think one thing that should be distinguished here is that the media is always taking Trump literally. It never takes him seriously, but it always takes him literally. ... I think a lot of voters who vote for Trump take Trump seriously but not literally, so when they hear things like the Muslim comment or the wall comment, their question is not, 'Are you going to build a wall like the Great Wall of China?' or, you know, 'How exactly are you going to enforce these tests?' What they hear is we're going to have a saner, more sensible immigration policy."


Now juxtapose that with "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it."

 

[CBradSmith]

There is no reclaiming of the party from a national perspective. It's too late for that. People like me will be voting for our values, not a political party. I've come to accept that I will likely have to vote for a candidate that is mostly aligned with my values while having some points of disagreement.

Back to the topic of left leaning moderates without a party, have you read or heard anything about the emergence of a more center-left political party?

 

[Medic007]

Back to the topic of left leaning moderates without a party, have you read or heard anything about the emergence of a more center-left political party?

No. Anything other than the Ds and Rs isn't likely to get much traction because of the almighty $$$. We've seen the struggles of the Libertarian Party.

Too many people are comfortable with a black or white choice and too many people are willing to go all in on it.

 

[CBradSmith]

No. Anything other than the Ds and Rs isn't likely to get much traction because of the almighty $$$. We've seen the struggles of the Libertarian Party.

Too many people are comfortable with a black or white choice and too many people are willing to go all in on it.

It would be interesting/useful if there was a way to identify/contact/engage moderate liberals. "Organize" them.

Do you think if the Dems dont retake the House that the moderate side of the party will regain control from the fringe?

 

[Medic007]

It would be interesting/useful if there was a way to identify/contact/engage moderate liberals. "Organize" them.

Do you think if the Dems dont retake the House that the moderate side of the party will regain control from the fringe?

I think the reality is that much like moderate conservatives, many moderate liberals aren't all that engaged in politics.

I think the results of the 2010 and 2014 midterms were moderates expressing their displeasure of the direction of the country.

I think Trump is the result of a bunch of middle of the road people finally putting their foot down and voting against the more staunch side of both parties. Trump had to beat a bunch of "bonafide" conservatives to win the primary and he pulled in a bunch of people just like me to win the general.

Trump organized moderates by speaking to issues we care about. Everyone I know that considers themselves in the middle had a few reasons they voted for Trump, such as illegal immigration, 2nd Amendment, tax reform, etc, but actually had more reasons they didn't vote for the other options.

As to the second question, I have no idea what will cause the reasonable Democrats to speak up. The "progressive" part of the party is so loud and obnoxious that they drown everyone else out. There's a few moderate Dems out there that are speaking up, but they will have to be much louder to get any traction against the psychotic left.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

It would be interesting/useful if there was a way to identify/contact/engage moderate liberals. "Organize" them.

Do you think if the Dems dont retake the House that the moderate side of the party will regain control from the fringe?

We’re called...independents. In terms of registration, the major parties have lost ground to increased independent registration in Oklahoma.

https://newsok.com/article/5596530/major-parties-lose-some-ground-as-new-oklahoma-voters-register

 

[AC_Exotic]

There is no reclaiming of the party from a national perspective. It's too late for that. People like me will be voting for our values, not a political party. I've come to accept that I will likely have to vote for a candidate that is mostly aligned with my values while having some points of disagreement.

Plus one.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Interesting how trump’s “values” have aligned with the “religious” right.

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

 

[Medic007]

Interesting how trump’s “values” have aligned with the “religious” right.

Really? What values are those?