Teddy Roosevelt on multiculturalism.
- Thread starter MegaPoke
- Start date
Theodore Roosevelt on subjugating the Phillipines and making them a U.S. colony instead of an independent nation after the Spanish American War.
"I have scant patience with those who fear to undertake the task of governing the Philippines, and who openly avow that they do fear to undertake it, or that they shrink from it because of the expense and trouble; but I have even scanter patience with those who make a pretense of humanitarianism to hide and cover their timidity, and who cant about “liberty” and the “consent of the governed,” in order to excuse themselves for their unwillingness to play the part of men." from "The True Flag: Theodore Roosevelt, Mark Twain, and the Birth of American Empire" by Stephen Kinzer (emphasis added by me)
"I have scant patience with those who fear to undertake the task of governing the Philippines, and who openly avow that they do fear to undertake it, or that they shrink from it because of the expense and trouble; but I have even scanter patience with those who make a pretense of humanitarianism to hide and cover their timidity, and who cant about “liberty” and the “consent of the governed,” in order to excuse themselves for their unwillingness to play the part of men." from "The True Flag: Theodore Roosevelt, Mark Twain, and the Birth of American Empire" by Stephen Kinzer (emphasis added by me)
Did someone claim that everything Teddy Roosevelt said was like the Gospel writ large? Was that post deleted?
Is there a crisis of lack of assimilation going on that I'm missing? Or is it just about how the immigrants used to not assimilate enough? I'm not being sarcastic, i'm trying to figure whether and how it impacts a current event. To me, that's one little example of how our historical alarmism about immigrants is wrong. Every immigrant demographic from 1907 has assimilated, produced, fought for Uncle Sam, etc.
Mega quoted the man.....and there was much rejoicing and huzzahs.
I merely quoted the same man to see whether there was a similar response.
No need to get your panties in a wad.
It's not exactly an apples to apples comparison to just put a blanket statement out like that imo. Comparing the Irish/Italians to Arabs/Muslims is more like apples and potatos. The rate of assimilation is affected by the culture of those immigrating. In the case of the Irish and Italians they both came from western culture and had many of the same shared values, not the case with middle easterners. Many of their values are at odds with our own. Look at their treatment of gays and women.
Muslims have highest claimed disability rates in the UK (24% of men, 21% of women)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tudents-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html
2011: 16% of UK prisoners in 2010 are Muslim (Muslims comprise about 3% of the total population)
http://www.google.com/hostednews/uk...m1TF2wT-EK28RTRDQ?docId=N0256451319500798601A
Pakistani Muslims in the UK are three times more likely to be unemployed than Hindus. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed as Indian Hindus.
http://frontpagemag.com/2012/daniel-greenfield/islams-universal-economic-failure/2/
Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVEY/Site Download.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian’s consent
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: Up to 52% of British Muslims believe a Muslim man is entitled to up to four wives
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
Policy Exchange: 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf
NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a “consistently pro-freedom of speech line”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY
ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian Muslims Poll Nov 04/Guardian Muslims Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say ‘Muslim’ rather than ‘Briton’)
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf
Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/libimages/246.pdf
Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...igranten-hoffen-auf-muslimische-Mehrheit.html
Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/religion.still.matters.global.survey.finds/28257.htm
Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/section-5-political-opinions-and-social-values/
Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60
Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08...rowth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are “Muslim first” (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08...rowth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/
Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/section-6-terrorism-concerns-about-extremism-foreign-policy/
ICM Poll: 11% of British Muslims find violence for political ends acceptable
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian Muslims Poll Nov 04/Guardian Muslims Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist
Wenzel Strategies (2012): 58% of Muslim-Americans believe criticism of Islam or Muhammad is not protected free speech under the First Amendment.
45% believe mockers of Islam should face criminal charges (38% said they should not).
12% of Muslim-Americans believe blaspheming Islam should be punishable by death.
43% of Muslim-Americans believe people of other faiths have no right to evangelize Muslims.
32% of Muslims in America believe that Sharia should be the supreme law of the land.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/20...t-of-us-muslims-reject-freedom-of-expression/
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2012/10/poll-nearly-half-of-us-muslims-believe.html
Pew Research (2013): “At least half’ of Muslims surveyed believed polygamy is morally acceptable.
“Muslims in most countries surveyed say that a wife should always obey her husband.” (including 93% in Indonesia and 65% in Turkey).
Only 32% of Muslims in Indonesia say a woman should have the right to divorce her husband (22% in Egypt, 26% in Pakistan and 60% in Russia).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFil...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Clearly there is. It's not as bad here as it is in other western European nations, but yeah... lack of assimilation of massive refugee and migrant populations is a crisis in Europe.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...er-of-sexual-assaults-in-europe-a6800901.html
"This footage, taken with a hidden camera by an anonymous Frenchman in the Avenue de Flandres, 19th Arrondissement, near the Stalingrad Metro Station in Paris as well as areas in close proximity, shows the devastating effects of uncontrolled illegal mass immigration of young African males into Europe."
1. Why so obsessed with Europe contemporary parallels with muslims but not guns?
2. I don't disagree that islam is backasswards, more so than other modern religions (it hasn't evolved) and there's a mystifying liberal disconnect between muslim deprivation of human rights vs the outrage when baptists do it -- I think it comes from people personally knowing and liking muslims and not liking where singling out people on basis of religion takes us. The religion is what it is.
3. I can say pretty awful demographic stats about every other migrant group. Italians, germans, russians, all had reputations for criminality. Irish. Tremendous backlash and fear against them going waaay back. Harry wants to be Bloody/Butcher Bill from Gangs of New York.
4. Do any of the american studies break down the muslims by generation, or track arab immigration to us historically?
5. I have never seen a muslim "section" of a community. Have vietnamese (in OKC even), chinese, italians, russian, polish, and those enclaves outside of Oklahoma are old. Why do we think this gneeration of muslims will fail to assimilate wen others did? There are so many people you get to know and their family goes back to the middle east (lots of lebanese, syrians and iranians in my experience) but they don't self identify in any way as muslim. Steve Jobs. Anyone in the rug business. Shouldn't there be a ton of attacks already? What's new now? Why hasn't our population of muslims developed the resentment and insular identity that Europe has, or that those polls suggest? I'll tell you: 'Murica. We have opportunity and community they can't get in Brussels.
I think it's just as vital to our national interest to have a population of loyal immigrants. Them and their kids are likely needed in a time of war to navigate language, culture, source of information, etc. Maybe that stuff doesn't matter with modern warfare any more, I dunno... Diversity brings some strong advantages. The melting pot ethos has served us well in practice and it has not served Europe. We have economic opportunity and community outside of your own "kind" and Europe does not. We're socially and economically mobile. I learned that stereotype in elementary social studies, reinforced it when I lived in Europe and it's just a fact.
So these are bad now? If so, let's break down conservative vs. liberal opinions on these.
Look how those numbers change. This is what I'm saying. I want to see muslim immigrants public opinions, crime stats, etc. over time. Does the same person change? His kids? Do his grandkids even acknowledge themself as muslim or speak the old language?
What does "distinct" mean? What are christians' #'s? I was taught to be "apart from the world" growing up -- mainstream denominational thought that christians are to set themselves apart and be christians first.
2. I don't disagree that islam is backasswards, more so than other modern religions (it hasn't evolved) and there's a mystifying liberal disconnect between muslim deprivation of human rights vs the outrage when baptists do it -- I think it comes from people personally knowing and liking muslims and not liking where singling out people on basis of religion takes us. The religion is what it is.
3. I can say pretty awful demographic stats about every other migrant group. Italians, germans, russians, all had reputations for criminality. Irish. Tremendous backlash and fear against them going waaay back. Harry wants to be Bloody/Butcher Bill from Gangs of New York.
4. Do any of the american studies break down the muslims by generation, or track arab immigration to us historically?
5. I have never seen a muslim "section" of a community. Have vietnamese (in OKC even), chinese, italians, russian, polish, and those enclaves outside of Oklahoma are old. Why do we think this gneeration of muslims will fail to assimilate wen others did? There are so many people you get to know and their family goes back to the middle east (lots of lebanese, syrians and iranians in my experience) but they don't self identify in any way as muslim. Steve Jobs. Anyone in the rug business. Shouldn't there be a ton of attacks already? What's new now? Why hasn't our population of muslims developed the resentment and insular identity that Europe has, or that those polls suggest? I'll tell you: 'Murica. We have opportunity and community they can't get in Brussels.
I think it's just as vital to our national interest to have a population of loyal immigrants. Them and their kids are likely needed in a time of war to navigate language, culture, source of information, etc. Maybe that stuff doesn't matter with modern warfare any more, I dunno... Diversity brings some strong advantages. The melting pot ethos has served us well in practice and it has not served Europe. We have economic opportunity and community outside of your own "kind" and Europe does not. We're socially and economically mobile. I learned that stereotype in elementary social studies, reinforced it when I lived in Europe and it's just a fact.
So these are bad now? If so, let's break down conservative vs. liberal opinions on these.
Look how those numbers change. This is what I'm saying. I want to see muslim immigrants public opinions, crime stats, etc. over time. Does the same person change? His kids? Do his grandkids even acknowledge themself as muslim or speak the old language?
What does "distinct" mean? What are christians' #'s? I was taught to be "apart from the world" growing up -- mainstream denominational thought that christians are to set themselves apart and be christians first.
Guns are inanimate objects, and Muslims are human beings. You do realize this right? If guns suddenly came to life and began practicing an antithetical ideology that produced a disproportionate number of violent problems compared to other suddenly animated, previously inanimate objects, it would be a horrifying sci-fi dystopia and I would agree with anything required to get these sentient gun beasts under control. If that's not what you meant, it's just a terrible awful conflation of whole unrelated political topics.
Agree. But numbers don't lie, and Islamofascism is an ideology imbedded within many regular, ordinary harmless muslim communities. Feeling bad about solving the problem doesn't keep it from being a problem.
Any good representative contemporary examples that don't require a history degree?
Totally agree - but come on man. Nobody is against legal immigration. I take him at his word for now that this ban is temporary and has the purpose of improving our vetting process. If that becomes something worse - I'll agree, but until then, the guy married an immigrant.
Also as an aside, we aren't a nation of immigrants. Nearly 90% of American citizens are natural born. We are a nation of families with immigrant pasts and cultural assimilation. Melting Pot, and whatnot.
Yes, but ultimately the issue is what human beings do with the inanimate objects. Glib isn't the same as compelling.
Iranians. Syrians. Lebanese. Yemenis. i guess all 7 countries on the list. Where are the terrorist attacks? That's what we're concerned with preventing, terrorist attacks?
Best example I can give for Biff's side is 911. 19 Saudis and 2 Egyptians, all here legal. But I believe Biff has properties there so... we don't look back in America, only forward. 911 doesn't count.
1. It was Obama's list. You'll have to ask him for sure. However...
2. My understanding of the list is that they are the likeliest 7 countries to which the ISIS cockroaches will flee when the 1st Armored division rolls into Alepo and blows their huts up.
3. Nobody has said they are the countries that previous terrorists have come from or that this was a criteria for their inclusion on the list. This argument is a lot like the popular vote argument - pointless, irrelevant to the likely actual strategy behind the list.
I would view this list as evidence that bad things are on the horizon for ISIS and immediate groundwork to keep the cockroaches from doing what they said they will do - infiltrate the refugee flow once the carnage begins.
Reeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaccchhhhhhhhhhhh.
Guys use their dicks and hands to rape women. Should we preemptively chop off the hands of and castrate men and boys to prevent rape? Or maybe limit them to one hand and half a dick?
Poor thing. Getting abused on GUNS yet again. Have you led the charge by disarming yourself?
If this is a real thought you're either being purposely obtuse or you're one of the least observant people on the planet.
They're all real thoughts. Any one in particular that's more stupid than the rest?
Hey @syskatine, I'll respond it's just that there is way to much to respond to by phone. I just need time to sit down on a computer and reply. Traveling today, so maybe on the plane.
That's like asking me to pick my favorite cast member from Miss Saigon
Not really. They all show an affinity for skimming the surface and ignoring actual events.
It also has a lot to do with what country they emigrate to. Britain, France, and Germany are all nation-states (nation having an ethnic component). The US is truly more of a state and any nationality associated with that state is more geographic and ideological than it is ethnic. It is much easier to become an American that it is to become British, French, or German.
Well I still tried. I wrote War and Peace in this thread to Thor. Sorry I don't have the time to write essays to every post.
Don't move the goalposts on me. The OP was T Rex talking about immigration assimilation, presumably in the US. I ask if there's an issue with assimilation and you shift to Europe.
Where are we failing to assimilate the immigrants here?
Ok. Yes.
I can either give you a smart ass answer now or do a simple google search later for specifics.
I'll post it and you'll use circular logic to avoid having to admit that multiculturalism and melting pot are opposing ideas.
I'll look forward to it. Also look forward to seeing all these domestic assimilation problems that are out of line with our historic experience.
Do you have the ability to think past your next breath? It's not readily apparent.
Can you forecast based on what's happening across Europe based on the new millennial jackass Muslim immigrants unwillingness to assimilate?
Why would a sane person invite that into their house?
Thus far, we haven't brought in a large number which is why we haven't gotten to see what Europe has. I doubt we have magical methods to assimilate people that elude our European counterparts.
We've had our share of Rotherhams involving white Christians....just saying.
We've let in thousands of immigrants from those countries. I'm obviously not as worldly and smart as you guys but I haven't seen a ton of immigrants doing the stuff they've done in Europe. They've shot up train stations, night clubs, more train stations, drove trucks through crowds, marauding gangs fingering women, we haven't had the same pattern here and we've been allowing in millenial jackass muslim immigrants since... well, the millenium? You think if there wasn't some pattern with the current millenial muslims that get here we wouldn't hear it screamed from the rooftops? By Biff?
They had to go back and fix the EO twice because they f*#^ed it up... while they defended it. That's about the same time Biff approved a go ahead on a disastrous military mission. He's incompetent, he doesn't know what he's doing, he lies constantly and for some reason it never counts with conservatives. And he's not draining shit. You have to be blind not to see these things. It's unreal the voodoo this guy has put you people.
We're different than Europe. We can debate that all day but we haven't had the same experience. I don't have a problem with vetting -- that's not what Biff did. Obama stepped it up with Iraq immigrants, he just didn't call a presser and scowl and wave a flag like Biff. Biff went for optics. He also fired a smart lawyer that told him it wasn't constitutional so here we are. He f&$#ed that up, too. If he would've acted competently he'd have followed advice and had a smooth implementation, like Obama did when he thought it was the smart move. I'm amazed you guys can't see him for what he is.
Hire him to take your picture and no-show.
