Someone Who Knows What He’s Talking About

[Ponca Dan]

Explains that when it comes to trade, specifically international trade, Donald Trump is an idiot.

Trump's Ignorance of Trade is Everestian - Cafe Hayek

TweetHere’s a letter to the Wall Street Journal: Editor: Lamely attempting to defend himself from your sound criticisms of his destructive protectionist trade policies, Donald Trump inadvertently makes a fool of himself by only further exposing his out-and-out ignorance of economics (Letters...

cafehayek.com

 

[2012Bearcat]

Yes let's listen to the expert that supports US trade deficits to the tune of a little less than 70 billion a month. That seems smart. SMFH.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Yes let's listen to the expert that supports US trade deficits to the tune of a little less than 70 billion a month. That seems smart. SMFH.

You continually berate the trade deficit without once explaining why.

 

[2012Bearcat]

You continually berate the trade deficit without once explaining why.

Answers should be obvious with the fall of manufacturing in the US. I'm a big proponent of the middleclass and in my view the offshoring of manufacturing has been to the detriment of the middleclass. Not to mention the massive transfers of wealth to other nations, many of whom are adversaries of this country. Take China as an example, without the transfer of US manufacturing to China it would not be the wealthy world power it is.
I'm not against trade what I'm against unfair trade. Other countries place tariffs on US goods to protect their jobs markets and economy but the US is expected to import goods without the same. That's not fair trade.
Also puts out country at the mercy of other countries. Take pharmaceuticals as one example. There is currently a shortage of Antibiotics and even ADHD in the country due to what they say is a supply chain problem. I'm calling BS on that. Numerous other reasons but you should get the drift so to speak.

Now you being a supporter of the massive trade deficits we run provide your reasons why that's a good thing.

I think you will find like most everything else there is a middle ground that benefits the country and the people. Our trade deficit is out of balance and needs to be scaled back, which is all I'm saying.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Answers should be obvious with the fall of manufacturing in the US. I'm a big proponent of the middleclass and in my view the offshoring of manufacturing has been to the detriment of the middleclass. Not to mention the massive transfers of wealth to other nations, many of whom are adversaries of this country. Take China as an example, without the transfer of US manufacturing to China it would not be the wealthy world power it is.
I'm not against trade what I'm against unfair trade. Other countries place tariffs on US goods to protect their jobs markets and economy but the US is expected to import goods without the same. That's not fair trade.
Also puts out country at the mercy of other countries. Take pharmaceuticals as one example. There is currently a shortage of Antibiotics and even ADHD in the country due to what they say is a supply chain problem. I'm calling BS on that. Numerous other reasons but you should get the drift so to speak.

Now you being a supporter of the massive trade deficits we run provide your reasons why that's a good thing.

I think you will find like most everything else there is a middle ground that benefits the country and the people. Our trade deficit is out of balance and needs to be scaled back, which is all I'm saying.

If I understand you correctly it's not the *deficit* per se that upsets you, it's the loss of manufacturing jobs, and you think the deficit is the cause of the loss. Am I reading you correctly?

Let me get back to the deficit for a minute. Let me propose a trade that takes place and you show me where is the deficit and who is harmed by it. Lets's say 15,000 baskeball fans buy 15,000 tickets to a Thunder game and the average price of a ticket is $100. So 15,000 people pay a total of $1.5 million for the tickets. The Thunder gets $1.5 million in trade for 15,000 baskeball tickets to 15,000 people. Where's the deficit? Who is harmed? What sanctions should the government place? Who should be sanctioned? Why? What would be the result of the sanctions? Would the sanctions cause the ticket prices to rise? (This is the error Boudreaux points out that Trump makes. Trump says his sanctions did not cause a rise in prices to American consumers. Over the years Boudreaux has produced many papers with data showing that prices did indeed rise, and he has shown via economic theory and economic reality that on this issue Trump is flat wrong.)

 

[2012Bearcat]

If I understand you correctly it's not the *deficit* per se that upsets you, it's the loss of manufacturing jobs, and you think the deficit is the cause of the loss. Am I reading you correctly?

Let me get back to the deficit for a minute. Let me propose a trade that takes place and you show me where is the deficit and who is harmed by it. Lets's say 15,000 baskeball fans buy 15,000 tickets to a Thunder game and the average price of a ticket is $100. So 15,000 people pay a total of $1.5 million for the tickets. The Thunder gets $1.5 million in trade for 15,000 baskeball tickets to 15,000 people. Where's the deficit? Who is harmed? What sanctions should the government place? Who should be sanctioned? Why? What would be the result of the sanctions? Would the sanctions cause the ticket prices to rise? (This is the error Boudreaux points out that Trump makes. Trump says his sanctions did not cause a rise in prices to American consumers. Over the years Boudreaux has produced many papers with data showing that prices did indeed rise, and he has shown via economic theory and economic reality that on this issue Trump is flat wrong.)

It's really simple, 70 billion of wealth transfer a month is not sustainable.

 

[Ponca Dan]

It's really simple, 70 billion of wealth transfer a month is not sustainable.

The US collectively transferred $70 billion dollars in exchange for $70 billion worth of merchandise which it uses to produce new products or consume. Where's the deficit? Who is harmed, the ones who receive the dollars or the ones who receive an equal dollar amount of merchandise?

 

[2012Bearcat]

The US collectively transferred $70 billion dollars in exchange for $70 billion worth of merchandise which it uses to produce new products or consume. Where's the deficit? Who is harmed, the ones who receive the dollars or the ones who receive an eqaual dollar amount of merchandise?

Where's the harm? Are you serious? Take one look at the rise of China and you should be able to see where the harm is.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Where's the harm? Are you serious? Take one look at the rise of China and you should be able to see where the harm is.

From a strictly economic point of view, which is what this thread is about, how has China's economic rise harmed the US? From a strictly economic point of view the trade between the countries has been even, dollars for an equal amount of merchandise. It's the same as when a basketball fan buys a ticket to a game, dollars for a ticket of equal value. Where's the deficit?

 

[Alpha Woke]

From a strictly economic point of view, which is what this thread is about, how has China's economic rise harmed the US? From a strictly economic point of view the trade between the countries has been even, dollars for an equal amount of merchandise. It's the same as when a basketball fan buys a ticket to a game, dollars for a ticket of equal value. Where's the deficit?

Spoken like a politician.

Let’s totally discount the real world implication because that makes my argument really silly.

 

[2012Bearcat]

From a strictly economic point of view, which is what this thread is about, how has China's economic rise harmed the US? From a strictly economic point of view the trade between the countries has been even, dollars for an equal amount of merchandise. It's the same as when a basketball fan buys a ticket to a game, dollars for a ticket of equal value. Where's the deficit?

I guess you will have to get out of your in the box thinking to see the economics of the situation. China controls what percentage of rare earth materials? Threatening war on Taiwan? Helping Russia in Ukraine? Working to replace the dollar as the worlds reserve currency? Destabilizing the world geopolitical norms? ETC, ETC, ETC. How much is that costing the US economy all because we have had a ridiculously large trade imbalance with them for how long now? Our corrupt politicians and the equally corrupt greedy wealthy have essentially paid China to become a world power and threaten our position in the world at the expense of the American people.
I'm not in any way against trade between countries, provided that trade is fair and somewhat balanced. When countries place tariffs on our goods we should place equal tariffs on their goods, hence my reference to the term fair trade. The trade imbalance you seem to support is kind of like MMT you are against. As long as you can print money at will the trade imbalance is not really a problem except for massive inflation but eventually there comes a time when you can no longer print money.
This is common sense to those of us that have it.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I guess you will have to get out of your in the box thinking to see the economics of the situation. China controls what percentage of rare earth materials? Threatening war on Taiwan? Helping Russia in Ukraine? Working to replace the dollar as the worlds reserve currency? Destabilizing the world geopolitical norms? ETC, ETC, ETC. How much is that costing the US economy all because we have had a ridiculously large trade imbalance with them for how long now? Our corrupt politicians and the equally corrupt greedy wealthy have essentially paid China to become a world power and threaten our position in the world at the expense of the American people.
I'm not in any way against trade between countries, provided that trade is fair and somewhat balanced. When countries place tariffs on our goods we should place equal tariffs on their goods, hence my reference to the term fair trade. The trade imbalance you seem to support is kind of like MMT you are against. As long as you can print money at will the trade imbalance is not really a problem except for massive inflation but eventually there comes a time when you can no longer print money.
This is common sense to those of us that have it.

What I don't understand is how the trade deficit is to blame for all of that. I'm hoping you can explain.

 

[2012Bearcat]

What I don't understand is how the trade deficit is to blame for all of that. I'm hoping you can explain.

Where is the wealth going? China.
What is China doing with the wealth? Working to the detriment of the US.
We are funding our our demise.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Where is the wealth going? China.
What is China doing with the wealth? Working to the detriment of the US.
We are funding our our demise.

What wealth is going to China that is not coming back to the US?
What is the US doing with its wealth? Encircling China with military might.
I do not understand your thought process that the trade deficit is funding our demise. It surely isn't funding our economic demise. How is the trade deficit funding our demise? What do you even mean by "our demise?"

 

[2012Bearcat]

What wealth is going to China that is not coming back to the US?
What is the US doing with its wealth? Encircling China with military might.
I do not understand your thought process that the trade deficit is funding our demise. It surely isn't funding our economic demise. How is the trade deficit funding our demise? What do you even mean by "our demise?"

Where was China before we started trading with them? Just another third world country.
Where are they now after 50 60 years of imbalanced trade? World power.
Compare the two. That is the answer to your questions.
Now consider where China and the US will be after another 50 to 60 years of imbalanced trade.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Headed out to our annual Dove hunt. Will try to check in when I can but don't expect much in the way of replies. I try not to post when I'm drinking.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Headed out to our annual Dove hunt. Will try to check in when I can but don't expect much in the way of replies. I try not to post when I'm drinking.

Be safe! I've always thought the best posts are drunk posts!