Shooter did not use an AR 15

[MegaPoke]

...by the way. Similar rifle but not an AR.

The AR is basically the iPhone of modern rifles, which is why it turns up all the time, but this was a Sig Sauer MCX carbine.

Not that it'll matter to the firearm illiterates.

 

[twiza]

I don't think gun control activist care what it is called. To them it has a similar shape, a large magazine and higher caliber. That would be like me hating on sharia law but not understanding all the laws. All I know is that there are enough turds in that pool I don't want to jump in. I just thought the article was trying to make a point, by being technical but it doesn't really help that side of the debate.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

First off let me state that I served 21 years in the USAF, I am a gun owner and believe in my right to own guns.
But...... Everyone is getting furious, and rightfully so , about these terrorist related deaths in the US. In the last 10 years including Orlando, there have been 74 "Muslim" related terrorist deaths in the US. But over that same period there have been over 280,000 gun deaths. I don't know what, but something has to be done.

 

[squeak]

First off let me state that I served 21 years in the USAF, I am a gun owner and believe in my right to own guns.
But...... Everyone is getting furious, and rightfully so , about these terrorist related deaths in the US. In the last 10 years including Orlando, there have been 74 "Muslim" related terrorist deaths in the US. But over that same period there have been over 280,000 gun deaths. I don't know what, but something has to be done.

Welcome UK.

280,000 said fast enough is a big number, but that's only about 28k per year. That's less than die in car wrecks but I'm not ready to stop driving.

Can you break those down by type (suicide, gang related, etc) and weapon (AR, pistol, etc)?

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Welcome UK.

280,000 said fast enough is a big number, but that's only about 28k per year. That's less than die in car wrecks but I'm not ready to stop driving.

Can you break those down by type (suicide, gang related, etc) and weapon (AR, pistol, etc)?

No offense , but 28,000 a year no matter the reason is appalling.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Sounds like we need to ban automobiles also. Too dangerous.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Sounds like we need to ban automobiles also. Too dangerous.

No offense, but thinking like that is why we have this problem and anytime someone tries to curb it , they get no where.

 

[MegaPoke]

No offense , but 28,000 a year no matter the reason is appalling.

Take out suicides, illegally owned guns and gang violence and then tell me what % of that remaining number is "rifle violence" - and it'll become a bit less appalling.

Unless you are prepared to ban all handguns, no bans will ever make w statistical dent, and even then not much if any of one. Least of all, rifle bans.

What can we do?

Tighten enforcement of existing laws and make gun related crimes very heavily punished. Very.

Fix the screening process that allowed this guy to get one at a store - which is not to say he wouldn't then get one on the black market. He would. It would be about as easy as buying pot if we crate that black market via gun bans.

It'll be the failed war on drugs all over again except with guns, gun cartels and unarmed Americans.

 

[MegaPoke]

Not that this is my reason for owning an AR, but...

If being shot in a mass shooting is the existential threat (it's not) the gun grabbers claim it to be, how then can they say it's paranoid fantasy to think you might need a gun like this to defend yourself against more than a bugler or home intruder?

Can't be both. Can it? If so, give it a try and explain.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

As I said, I don't know what the solution is, but anytime anyone does try to do something the NRA steps in and stops it. The US is to far gone as far as lack of gun control to do what other countries have done so I have no idea. When I first moved to England in 1986, the British government had just implemented a total ban on hand guns. Americans had two choices if they had hand guns, either turn them over to the British governnent or send them back to the US. I was furious, until I lived there for a while and relished how nice it was living where you didn't have to worry about some idiot with a gun.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

The shooter last weekend was licensed as a security guard for the largest security firm in the world, who had conducted two separate background checks on him. He was scrutinized by the FBI either twice or thrice. Beyond his security guard licensing he held two other gun licenses.

What REAL WORLD solution would've stopped this from happening?

 

[squeak]

As I said, I don't know what the solution is, but anytime anyone does try to do something the NRA steps in and stops it. The US is to far gone as far as lack of gun control to do what other countries have done so I have no idea. When I first moved to England in 1986, the British government had just implemented a total ban on hand guns. Americans had two choices if they had hand guns, either turn them over to the British governnent or send them back to the US. I was furious, until I lived there for a while and relished how nice it was living where you didn't have to worry about some idiot with a gun.

There is a solution for you.

 

[squeak]

As I said, I don't know what the solution is, but anytime anyone does try to do something the NRA steps in and stops it. The US is to far gone as far as lack of gun control to do what other countries have done so I have no idea. When I first moved to England in 1986, the British government had just implemented a total ban on hand guns. Americans had two choices if they had hand guns, either turn them over to the British governnent or send them back to the US. I was furious, until I lived there for a while and relished how nice it was living where you didn't have to worry about some idiot with a gun.

And where are you going where you have to worry about someone pulling out a gun on you? You live in ****ing Stillwater. Maybe you spend time on the south side of Chicago. I can't say I have ever, even one time in my life, been worried about someone pulling out a gun on me.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

The shooter last weekend was licensed as a security guard for the largest security firm in the world, who had conducted two separate background checks on him. He was scrutinized by the FBI either twice or thrice. Beyond his security guard licensing he held two other gun licenses.

What REAL WORLD solution would've stopped this from happening?

That's what I am saying, I have no idea what the solution is, but obviously what we do now does not work

 

[TPOKE]

I see 2 problems with any sort of new controls. 1 - People who want to kill with a gun (murder or suicide) will still get one. 2 - It infringes on my Constitutional right to own one, and if we give the libs a small crack in the door they will open it further and use it for an attempt on banning any firearm ownership and changing any part of the Constitution they don't like.

 

[squeak]

I see 2 problems with any sort of new controls. 1 - People who want to kill with a gun (murder or suicide) will still get one. 2 - It infringes on my Constitutional right to own one, and if we give the libs a small crack in the door they will open it further and use it for an attempt on banning any firearm ownership and changing any part of the Constitution they don't like.

On 2, if you have "common sense" solutions, explain them (not that you could trust Obama if he said "if you like your guns, you can keep em"), because banning mean looking AR 15s isn't going to stop anything, IMO. And those mean rifles won't put a dent in that 280,000 number the Brit posted above.

 

[MegaPoke]

On 2, if you have "common sense" solutions, explain them (not that you could trust Obama if he said "if you like your guns, you can keep em"), because banning mean looking AR 15s isn't going to stop anything, IMO. And those mean rifles won't put a dent in that 280,000 number the Brit posted above.

No gun bans will ever work and there will always be new 'common sense' laws pressured.

By the way...

In the 1920's you could order a Thompson .45 submachinegun and 50 round magazines through the Sears catalogue.

 

[twiza]

The only thing that could have stopped this guy from committing the crime he did was if his wife would have called authorities. I feel bad for her b/c who would want to rat on their spouse. However, according to reports she took him to scope out the place, went to get ammunition with him and knew what he wanted to do. If this stuff is true she will most likely be convicted.

However, in the majority of cases I think people should be required to have a license to own a gun. I know that this won't fix all the issues, but I live in KS and any jackass can get a gone and carry it now. Everyone likes to do the Car comparison and that is fine, but if we look at that comparison people need a license, they need insurance, that have a title for the car. You have to renew your driver's license. If you are unfit to drive your license can be taken away. I said this in another thread....this is all about how much you want to give up to feel safe. If it doesn't take place in the gun area then where? Is it your freedom of speech to sympathize with ISIS. Stop and Frisk was supposedly helping in some cities, but that turned out not to be harassment or something.

 

[squeak]

On the license thing, again, it's just another hoop a law-abiding citizen will have to jump through. I don't think it will put a dent in the 28k number above.

 

[MegaPoke]

On the license thing, again, it's just another hoop a law-abiding citizen will have to jump through. I don't think it will put a dent in the 28k number above.

This. If that's where gun laws would end I would be fine with it, but it won't work. And then more laws and it gets easier to quantify law abiding people and their stock of guns for future reference.

The problem is always what's next.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

On the license thing, again, it's just another hoop a law-abiding citizen will have to jump through. I don't think it will put a dent in the 28k number above.

Personally as a legal and responsible gun owner myself, I Want it to be as difficult as could possibly be for someone to buy a gun. It's the idiots that make the responsible ones look bad. We all get lumped into the same group unfortunently. 21 years in the USAF, Top Secret security clearance, every minute of my life has already, and continues to get monitored, one more check wouldn't mean a thing to me.

 

[twiza]

I just don't think anyone who wants a gun should have one....that is the idea behind a license. I have been around guns my whole life. I was trained some of these people I know going out and getting guns aren't people you want carrying a gun. Hell you probably don't even want them driving. If people have to go to the trouble to get a license we will find that a lot of people won't go to the trouble which to me means less people having guns that aren't really committed to gun ownership. Removing all obstacles is like not having a plan.....we didn't have a plan on how to deal with ISIS and that hasn't worked out for us.

When the constitution was written there were about 2 types of guns and a militia could actually take on a military. Now there are all sorts of weapons and police look more and more like the military b/c that is the only edge they have over the citizens.

I'm not exactly sure why I'm in this thread. I don't really care that much on the gun debate. I just want ISIS dead, so everyone can focus on those pesky social issues.

 

[squeak]

How bout a license for people to have children? That would probably solve more than just the gun violence problem.

 

[twiza]

How bout a license for people to have children? That would probably solve more than just the gun violence problem.

YES PLEASE!!!!!!!!!! This would solve so many issues. We should find some birth control that can be reversed after you are approved for the license.

 

[MegaPoke]

A license to vote, while we are at it. Easy to get but you have to pass basic Waters World kind of questions.

4th grade social studies kind of understanding. Too much to ask?

Would progressives be willing to accept that? Nope.

 

[JonnyVito]

Only group I hate more then the group trying to take my rights away are the middle of the road people who say some thing has to be done but what I don't know. Evil will exist no matter how many rights you all take away from law abiding Americans.

 

[BIGOSUFAN]

Personally as a legal and responsible gun owner myself, I Want it to be as difficult as could possibly be for someone to buy a gun. It's the idiots that make the responsible ones look bad. We all get lumped into the same group unfortunently. 21 years in the USAF, Top Secret security clearance, every minute of my life has already, and continues to get monitored, one more check wouldn't mean a thing to me.

Do UFOs exist?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

A license to vote, while we are at it. Easy to get but you have to pass basic Waters World kind of questions.

4th grade social studies kind of understanding. Too much to ask?

Would progressives be willing to accept that? Nope.

RACIST!

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Do UFOs exist?

There are a lot of Unidentified Flying Objects, but that does not mean they are alien

 

[Ostatedchi]

It'll be the failed war on drugs all over again except with guns, gun cartels and unarmed Americans.

And it will make criminals out of otherwise honest, upstanding, contributing citizens. I know I'd be a 'criminal' since I'd break that law.

Maybe Oklahoma could delcare itself a gun control 'sanctuary state' like San Fran does as a 'sanctuary city' to ignore federal immigration laws. They get away with it. Maybe we could too.

 

[TPOKE]

There are a lot of Unidentified Flying Objects, but that does not mean they are alien

But, it could mean they're alien?

 

[BvillePoker]

Sounds like we need to ban automobiles also. Too dangerous.

Man I hate this car analogy. Cars are dangerous. They can kill people. That is why we regulate who can drive them, what types of cars can be driven on public roads, and how fast they can go legally. But don't try to even think about telling anyone that they cannot have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons with 30 round clips and 10,000 rounds of ammunition.

 

[squeak]

Man I hate this car analogy. Cars are dangerous. They can kill people. That is why we regulate who can drive them, what types of cars can be driven on public roads, and how fast they can go legally. But don't try to even think about telling anyone that they cannot have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons with 30 round clips and 10,000 rounds of ammunition.

Why can't I have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons and 10k rounds of ammo?

 

[N. Pappagiorgio]

Why can't I have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons and 10k rounds of ammo?

Because.....scary.

 

[MegaPoke]

Man I hate this car analogy. Cars are dangerous. They can kill people. That is why we regulate who can drive them, what types of cars can be driven on public roads, and how fast they can go legally. But don't try to even think about telling anyone that they cannot have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons with 30 round clips and 10,000 rounds of ammunition.

Another difference, there's no Constitutional Amendment specifying freedom to own a car, horse, buggy, etc.

Honest question, but who the hell are you to tell any other free man what they need to have in their basement?

 

[MegaPoke]

Why can't I have a basement full of semi-automatic weapons and 10k rounds of ammo?

Because it must mean you are up to something. You could have any other hobby and spend too much money on that, but if it's guns, you are clearly dangerous.

 

[squeak]

Ten friends, a dozen AR 15s or the like, 2500 rounds of ammo, and 100 lbs of tannerite is what I call a camping trip.

 

[BvillePoker]

I agree you have the right to bear arms and that is a constitutionally protected right that I DO NOT want to take that from you. But there is a big leap from that to whatever how many ever arms I want to own in my opinion. Does your perceived constitutionally protected right to own 3,000 semi-automatic rifles trump everyone else's constitutionally protected right to domestic tranquility, general welfare, and liberty? The SCOTUS has over and over held that my life is a constitutionally protected right even to the point of abridging other rights to protect the liberty of life above all others. I.e. your freedom of speech does not protect you if you yell fire in a movie theater because you are endangering others lives by doing so. Again, DO NOT WANT to take away 2nd amendment rights. Just would like some common sense regulations around guns. I do not, in my opinion, think regulation takes away any constitutional right.

 

[MegaPoke]

in my opinion

noted.

My opinion differs.

 

[BvillePoker]

Will you at least agree that there is a conversation that needs to be had and all sides need to have a seat at the table and see if we cannot come up with some ideas that protect EVERY right of EVERY citizen?