Serious Question For The Law And Order Immigration Folks
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
There is no right answer Dan. This planet has never been in a supply shortage of shitty places to live. Why would Cubans get to come to the land of milk and honey when there are pakastanis suffering? Afghans? Iraqis? Guatemalans? Helping 1000 Cubans is great but how do you choose?
I spent today with a Mexican man who came here forty years ago. He is a permanent resident. He wants to go back to Mexico to visit his family but they told him it is too dangerous. He was there three years ago and had to leave immediately because the police/cartels (same thing) found out he was there. He owns land that they want. The stories he told me about the specifics of corruption are amazing.
He told me vicente fox told George w Bush he had full permission to bomb the cartels that operate in various mountainous regions but bush wouldn’t do it.
Anyone who thinks these countries aren’t shitholes should immediately be sent there for a month.
My argument is there is no way we can open our borders to these cultures. It’s sad, innocent people are suffering, but they need a cultural enema.
Is it someone’s fault for taking a bribe when your other choice is death? The whole place stinks and a civil war, hiring 50,000 mercenaries with licenses to kill or something else extreme is their only option.
That’s one country. Africa, the Middle East, South America all have worse places. Until they get their shit together they have to keep their suffering to themselves. We will try and raise all boats through our economic engine.
I appreciate your reply, but you didn’t answer the question. Were as vociferous in wanting Cubans repatriated to a country that would imprison them or shoot them once they were returned? Should there not be a Little Havana? I’m just looking for answers to Cuban immigrants.
That’s my point. When taken as that little specific situation how could we ever send them back? That would be cruel. But how can you make a national policy based on 1/10th of 1% of people who are fleeing grave danger?
The world sucks. Castro is nothing special, he is just close.
I’d answer your question.....directly and definitively...but you have me on ignore.
Your loss.
But even worse, a loss for the entire board who won’t receive the benefit of my wisdom and wit due to your selfish behavior.
Dan, you are comparing apples to pineapples here.
There is a difference between a country who's government is targeting people and a country that's just a crappy place to live.
Cuba - political refugees
Mexico - not
There is a difference between a country who's government is targeting people and a country that's just a crappy place to live.
Cuba - political refugees
Mexico - not
I’m trying to make sense of your response. Are you saying the US should not send back illegal Cuban immigrants? Fleeing from government oppression is acceptable, but escaping the violence visited by drug cartels and gangs and Marxist revolutionaries is not. In both cases those immigrants came to America illegally. They violated our law. They violated the same law. The law is sacrosanct. It should be applied equally regardless of who violated it. So why should our government not round up every Cuban that came here illegally, separate them from their children, keep them in camps until they send them back to where they came? Is that not the consistent response? Apply the law equally? Any other action would be terribly hypocritical would it not?
Most Cubans had an exemption to deportation. There was a "wet foot, dry foot" policy until Obama ended it. Once any Cuban's foot touched US soil they could remain here...unless your name was Elian Gonzales.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...nds-wet-foot-dry-foot-policy-cubans/96505172/
Yes, I understand that. My question is why do the Cubans receive special treatment? What makes the intolerable living conditions under which they live different from the conditions under which Hondurans and Guatemalans labor? Why have we given Cubans free entry, but not those other folks?
So is that the dividing line? Suffering under state sponsored crap gets you free entry into America? But suffering under crappy living conditions provoked by drug cartels, gangs and Marxist revolutionaries does not? Under that guideline should not Muslim refugees from tyrannical Middle Eastern nations be given access to our milk and honey? If Cubans fleeing from state sponsored tyranny can gain free entry because they are fleeing state sponsored tyranny, would it not be consistent to say anyone who flees state sponsored tyranny from anywhere should not be afforded the same privilege? If not, why not? What makes the Cuban situation different from anywhere else? How is the inconsistency justified?
Ideally we should help them fix their own countries AND create a more streamlined legit immigration process. But I would say sometimes there’s a clear case of asylum and sometimes it is just a word to say to border patrol.
Are Muslims floating to the US on car tires? How many other safe countries would Middle East Muslims have to pass to come to the US?
Kennedy should have killed Castro and colonized Cuba. Nice vacation spot I hear.
So is that the standard for free entry? Build a raft out of car tires and we'll let you in? If Hondurans can make their way far enough north into Mexico, then build a raft out of car tires, put in the ocean at Tijuana, float north into the US, would that guarantee them free entry? If Cubans can do it can other nationalities? Or is this a Cuban only thing? Muslims was just an example of people living under government tyranny, which was advanced as the reason Cubans are allowed in.
What I'm trying to find from you is where is the red line? This is acceptable, that is not. What's the line? And once you draw the line can you explain why you drew it there? The "immigration problem" has been presented as a "law and order" problem. The law is the law and it must be obeyed! OK, if that's the case why do Cubans get a pass? Can you explain it?
If the Cubans come here and immediately register and file for asylum, then they aren't here illegally and can stay until their asylum case is heard. If they failed to register and are here illegally then yes, they should be deported back to Cuba. This would treat them exactly the same as someone who crosses the Mexican border at a border crossing and registers themselves. The difference would likely be the acceptance rate for the asylum claims but the immigration process would align to the laws as well as treat each all individuals equally regardless of country of origin.
How close is Cuba to the US? How close is Honduras to the US? If the people are political refugees truly escaping government tyranny, I'm supportive of them seeking asylum in the first country free from government tyranny that they are able to make it to. Permanent placement after that can be discussed based on logistics, capabilities, etc.
In addition to that, I'm good to go for them to request asylum at a legal port of entry of the US and be subjected to appropriate screening and investigation of their asylum claims. I'm good with them being detained during that process and being immediately deported if their claims are baseless. Their nationality and country of origin have no bearing on my thoughts on this.
Eh? My first post was simply addressing the logistics of travel of people from the Middle East versus Cuba since you used people from the Middle East as part of your example.
Good question and I don't have a solid answer but I will offer this....
Just got back from Cuba last month (amazing country and a 'must-do' for old car enthusiasts).
Anyway, I was down there for about two weeks and was surprised by the number of women that approached me with the following....'You got a chica?' 'No' 'Really? Here's my number.'
This must have happened around six times. I brushed it off assuming they were prostitutes.
Later, I was having dinner with the woman that owned the casa particular where I was staying. I mentioned the 'friendliness' of the local population. She pointed out that the only way for any Cuban - both men and women - to legally move to a foreign country was via marriage. No way you could just apply for a visa and immigrate abroad.
Maybe that has something to do with it.
Just got back from Cuba last month (amazing country and a 'must-do' for old car enthusiasts).
Anyway, I was down there for about two weeks and was surprised by the number of women that approached me with the following....'You got a chica?' 'No' 'Really? Here's my number.'
This must have happened around six times. I brushed it off assuming they were prostitutes.
Later, I was having dinner with the woman that owned the casa particular where I was staying. I mentioned the 'friendliness' of the local population. She pointed out that the only way for any Cuban - both men and women - to legally move to a foreign country was via marriage. No way you could just apply for a visa and immigrate abroad.
Maybe that has something to do with it.
People seeking asylum need to be looked at on an individual basis, and if legit, it needs to be granted
Refugees need to be looked at as a group and if they are a persecuted group (religion, political, race) our country , as the beacon of freedom ( a know , a little corny) in the world should assist them.
As far as immigration........as some know on here my wife is British, and she is a legal immigrant (Permanent Resident Alien....Green card holder) .....she immigrated back in 1992, and it took about two years ( a little longer than normal because of my security clearance) and cost us around $2000.00, along with many trips to the US embassy in London, and every ten years it costs another $900.00 or so to re do her Green card. So...........I get really mad when people cheat the system, and we should do everything within reason to stop it....but...80% of the illegal immigrants in the US come from Asia and Europe, they overstay student and work Visas , I think that is what we need to put resources into, not a wall
Refugees need to be looked at as a group and if they are a persecuted group (religion, political, race) our country , as the beacon of freedom ( a know , a little corny) in the world should assist them.
As far as immigration........as some know on here my wife is British, and she is a legal immigrant (Permanent Resident Alien....Green card holder) .....she immigrated back in 1992, and it took about two years ( a little longer than normal because of my security clearance) and cost us around $2000.00, along with many trips to the US embassy in London, and every ten years it costs another $900.00 or so to re do her Green card. So...........I get really mad when people cheat the system, and we should do everything within reason to stop it....but...80% of the illegal immigrants in the US come from Asia and Europe, they overstay student and work Visas , I think that is what we need to put resources into, not a wall
