Sebastian Gorka .....Deputy Assistant & Member of NSC

[hollywood]

This man is currently serving as Pres Trump's "Deputy Assistant."

Turns out this guy worked and wrote for an Hungarian newspaper Magyar Demokrata which had been identified in 2004 (Bush Administration) by US State Dept testimony before Congress as routinely publishing anti-semitic articles and holocaust denials.

He's also been identified as working for, or associated with a number of anti-semitic media outlets, organizations over the years, particularly during his time living in Hungary.

But here's what bothers me significantly. During the first 4 yrs of WWII, the nation of Hungary was ruled by Miklos Horthy who sided with Hitler and the Nazis and who ordered Hungarian Troops to fight with and under control of the Nazis. As the Germans started losing territory Horthy stepped aside and allowed an even more radical group of Nazi's in the Arrow Cross Party to take control of Hungary until the end of the war. The man who assumed power was named Ferenc Szálasi. He was captured by American troops on the last day of the war and was tried, convicted and executed for war crimes in March, 1946.

Here's a photo of Szálasi wearing the "dress uniform" of the Arrow Cross Party, along with the medal worn by members of the Arrow Cross to indicate membership.

I know the photo makes it a little hard to see, but their dress uniform had a top that kind of resembled a "Nehru" jacket with a priest collar. It had a row of buttons adorned with fancy stitching across the front accentuating the buttons.

Here's a photograph of the "Medal/Pin" the Arrow Cross Party wore as part of the ensemble.

However, there was a military "order" (award) established by Nazi protege Miklos Horthy known as the "Order of Vitez." Here's the medal/pin those so honored were awarded. Most of these awards were actually given/earned by those fighting for, with and on behalf of the Nazis but membership was open to civilians as it came with a "nobility" title and actually an award of land and other associated benefits. Horthy and later Szálasi used their authority to give the award to their friends and allies and much of the land they gave to recipients actually originated from land they had seized from Jewish families before the Hungarian Govt under the leadership rounded up the Jews and sent them to the camps.

Now, here's a photo of Sebastian Gorka from one of the inauguration parties.

Look familiar? That's the identical "uniform" worn by Szálasi and his followers of the Arrow Cross Party and the "medal" he is wearing is "the Order of Vitez" the same one commissioned by the anti-semitic Hitler ally, Horthy.

In the wake of WWII, the US State Department issued guidelines on accepting Europeans into the US. They identified specifically those who were part of the Order of Vitez as: "Organizations Under the Direction of the Nazi Government of Germany" and they were to be denied Visa's to enter the US.

What kind of person wears the dress uniform of a Nazi organization adorned with a medal awarded to Nazi supporters by a couple of despicable Nazi despots who were arrested, tried and convicted of war crimes following WWII to an inauguration? I really can't wrap my mind around this without coming to the conclusion that either this guy is a bit "warped" and likes to play/dress "nazi" or he's got a genuine affection for the Nazi affiliated groups he seems to be honoring by wearing their paraphernalia. (Or maybe I'm just overthinking this and it was due to the fact his SS uniform was still at the cleaners?)

 

[osu_orangestreak]

Good find. This is the most compromised White House in history.

For your weekend assignment I would like you to research Aleksandr Dugin and his links to Bannon.

 

[SMemmett]

Heard an interview with him the other day on the radio and his accent sounds like a total super villain.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

So, then, right on par with Valerie Jarrett?

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

Good find. This is the most compromised White House in history.

For your weekend assignment I would like you to research Aleksandr Dugin and his links to Bannon.

The most compromised? Are you forgetting about the server in the bathroom closet at Chappaqua?

 

[SMemmett]

So, then, right on par with Valerie Jarrett?

What'd she wear?

 

[Headhunter]

Sebastian Gorka, who holds the title of Deputy Assistant to the President in the Trump White House, has become embroiled in something of a media controversy over the course of this past week, as reports emerged that he had reportedly worn the medal of a pro-Nazi group at President Trump’s inauguration ball in January. The reality of this medal, however, as well as its history, are far more complicated than this simplistic formula would suggest.

Mr. Gorka is a national security expert who has served as a Fox News contributor and national security editor for far-right news site Breitbart. He was also charged with a weapons offense last year for attempting to bring a gun onto an airplane, a charge which has since been dismissed.

Born in London to parents who had fled the Hungarian Revolution of 1956, Mr. Gorka has in the past served as an advisor to Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán. He also worked at the Hungarian Ministry of Defense during the Prime Ministry of József Antall, Hungary’s first PM following the end of Communism.

The controversy began with article on the blog lobelog.org, which published an article this past Sunday entitled “Why Is Trump Adviser Wearing Medal of Nazi Collaborators?” The Aide in question was, of course, Mr. Gorka, while the medal in question looks like one belonging to the ‘Order of Vitéz,’ a chivalrous order founded in interwar Hungary that Lobelog described as being an anti-Semitic pro-Nazi group. The article questioned why Mr. Gorka would wear such a medal, and implied that the former Breitbart editor may himself have Nazi sympathies.

Lobelog’s article then spread like internet wildfire, and was quickly taken up by prominent news outlets around the world, from the Independent to Mic.com to Talking Points Memo. Without even touching on Mr. Gorka’s political views, however, there are many issues with this summary that are in need of clarification.

First and foremost, while the legacy of the Order of Vitéz (Vitézi Rend) is certainly controversial to this very day, it would be a mistake to imagine that the group was synonymous with Nazism or fascism more generally. The order was founded 1920 by the likewise controversial Miklós Horthy, the admittedly anti-Semitic ruler of Hungary from 1920 until his deposition by the Nazis in 1944, following attempts by his government to switch sides in the war and join the allies (while he infamously had little love for Jews, Horthy viewed fascism, and Hitler in particular, with pronounced disdain; in addition, he is a figure of considerable contradiction, as he is seen by some as being responsible for saving many of Budapest’s Jews from the Holocaust, despite whatever his own personal beliefs may have been). The Vitézi Rend was established as an order of merit, intended to reward heroic soldiers with a title, Vitéz, as well as a grant of land. The title would then pass from father to son.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

What'd she wear?

Generally? A scowl.

 

[Headhunter]

Certainly, the meaning of the Order of Vitéz is far from free of controversy in Hungarian historical memory. As Talking Points Memo points out in its article on the subject, the legacy of the group is very much a mixed one. TPM spoke to Hungarian historian George Deák, a historian who is currently an associate at Harvard University’s Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies.

Mr. Deák described the order as a “‘tainted’ but ambiguous symbol”; Hungarian Secretary of State Endre and Lt. Colonel László Ferenczy, two of men behind the 1944 mass deportation of Jews from Hungary to concentration camps, were “proud members of the order.” At the same time, however, Mr. Deák pointed out to TPM that “a small number of wealthy Jews allied themselves with the order as well.”

Going further, he added that while “anti-Semitism was probably something shared among most of the members of that group…it wasn’t explicitly anti-Semitic.”

One of Lobelog’s key points in its claim that the Order was essentially a fascist organization rests on the fact that it is listed by the US State Department as an “Organization Under the Direction of the Nazi Government of Germany.” This is true; however, when one looks at the list in question, one can see that this definition was rather broad, encompassing groups ranging from outright fascists, such as the Hungarian Arrow Cross Party and the Lithuanian SS, to the entire police forces of countries ranging from France to Poland to Lithuania. And while even these latter police forces certainly did contribute in abhorrent ways to the Nazi’s goals of genocide and empire, it would be going too far to accuse someone of anti-Semitism simply for wearing the logo of the French police force in order to honor one’s father.

 

[Headhunter]

Perhaps most importantly (and this is a point that no news outlet, to our knowledge, has brought up), Mr. Gorka’s father never even belonged to the original Order of Vitéz in the first place. Responding in a Breitbart video to the allegations raised against him, Mr. Gorka explained that his father, who had been imprisoned by Communist authorities in 1950 for attempting to organize resistance efforts, had received the Vitéz medal in 1979 “for his resistance to dictatorship.” In addition, Pál Gorka was born in 1930, meaning he was fifteen at the war’s end; considering that the Order of Vitéz was officially banned in 1947, neither Pál Gorka nor, by extension, his son, had any direct connection to the original Order founded by Horthy. The Order was reestablished in exile in the latter half of the 20th century, as a voluntary fraternal organization, but one with no legal standing whatsoever in Hungary. While there may be some question, then, of whether Mr. Gorka is even technically entitled to use the title “Vitéz”, it would be a gross mischaracterization of facts to claim that his wearing of the order’s medal at the Liberty Ball is a direct link to a pro-Nazi group.

 

[Headhunter]

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

View embedded media

I don't believe it. I think he secretly wants to establish the 4th Reich.

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

From now on, if I were him, I would wear those buttons just to piss off left-wingers.

 

[Been Jammin]

Raise your hand if you see no reason why this cat would be suspected of being antisemitic. Generally, 1+1=2.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Raise your hand if you see no reason why this cat would be suspected of being antisemitic. Generally, 1+1=2.

What's the upshot? That this guy is going to carry out Trump and Bannon's nefarious anti-Semitic master plans?

 

[Been Jammin]

What's the upshot? That this guy is going to carry out Trump and Bannon's nefarious anti-Semitic master plans?

I am just wondering if it is appropriate for Trump to place known antisemites and Holocaust deniers within his inner circle?

 

[CBradSmith]

Bed shitting?

Generally I lean "yes" on this one.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

I am just wondering if it is appropriate for Trump to place known antisemites and Holocaust deniers within his inner circle?

He isn't known. Trump's son-in-law is an orthodox Jew, and part of Trump's inner circle. His eldest daughter, who I think most would agree is probably the child Trump is closest to, is a converted Jew.

Trump has already demonstrated that he plans on improving the relationship the U.S. had with Israel under the Obama administration. I think it is safe to say that if any stories or information emerge that factually link Gorka to actual anti-semitism, that he'll be shown the door.

 

[ctdub]

He should have wore a Che Guevara shirt.

 

[Been Jammin]

He isn't known. Trump's son-in-law is an orthodox Jew, and part of Trump's inner circle. His eldest daughter, who I think most would agree is probably the child Trump is closest to, is a converted Jew.

Trump has already demonstrated that he plans on improving the relationship the U.S. had with Israel under the Obama administration. I think it is safe to say that if any stories or information emerge that factually link Gorka to actual anti-semitism, that he'll be shown the door.

That's fair. Hope so.

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

He should have wore a Che Guevara shirt.

You beat me to that.

 

[MegaPoke]

I guess JD hasn't seen this thread yet.

 

[MegaPoke]

I guess JD hasn't seen this thread yet.

 

[Headhunter]

I am just wondering if it is appropriate for Trump to place known antisemites and Holocaust deniers within his inner circle?

Who might that be? Gorka? He wore his Dad's metals that he got for fighting communism and that makes him an anti-semite and a holocaust denier?

Another bunch of phoney baloney left wing smear hysteria. Gorka is a brilliant man and a patriot.

 

[Been Jammin]

Who might that be? Gorka? He wore his Dad's metals that he got for fighting communism and that makes him an anti-semite and a holocaust denier?

Another bunch of phoney baloney left wing smear hysteria. Gorka is a brilliant man and a patriot.

First off, go back and read the thread. I'm not saying he is or is not anything. You are taking my post out of context. It was in reply to MJD's question which was (paraphrased) "why does it matter if this guy is, or is not, antisemitic?"

With that said....
-he worked for a Hungarian paper which routinely wrote antisemitic articles and Holocaust denials
-"He's also been identified as working for, or associated with a number of anti-semitic media outlets, organizations over the years, particularly during his time living in Hungary"
-In the photo @hollywood posted, he is wearing an uncommon jacket which is extremely similar (identical?) to the dress uniform of the Arrow Cross Party (a party whose leader was convicted of war crimes during WW2).
-Then there is the medal (not metal) that he is wearing.

Does that make him a modern day Nazi? Not necessarily. Maybe his explanation of the medal is legitimate. But, there is enough smoke there that I think it is a fair question.

Let's be honest. Neither of us knows the truth about where his true opinions/philosophies lie. Maybe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe he is just a guy who is wearing his father's medal and who doesn't have an antisemitic bone in his body.

 

[Ponca Dan]

First off, go back and read the thread. I'm not saying he is or is not anything. You are taking my post out of context. It was in reply to MJD's question which was (paraphrased) "why does it matter if this guy is, or is not, antisemitic?"

With that said....
-he worked for a Hungarian paper which routinely wrote antisemitic articles and Holocaust denials
-"He's also been identified as working for, or associated with a number of anti-semitic media outlets, organizations over the years, particularly during his time living in Hungary"
-In the photo @hollywood posted, he is wearing an uncommon jacket which is extremely similar (identical?) to the dress uniform of the Arrow Cross Party (a party whose leader was convicted of war crimes during WW2).
-Then there is the medal (not metal) that he is wearing.

Does that make him a modern day Nazi? Not necessarily. Maybe his explanation of the medal is legitimate. But, there is enough smoke there that I think it is a fair question.

Let's be honest. Neither of us knows the truth about where his true opinions/philosophies lie. Maybe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Maybe he is just a guy who is wearing his father's medal and who doesn't have an antisemitic bone in his body.

Since none of us know the truth about where his true opinions/philosophies lie perhaps it would be best if we kept our opinions to ourselves. Oftentimes reputations get destroyed by people ignorantly passing on rumors about people without validation. I've never heard of this guy. Maybe the smears against him are true. Who knows? But in this day and age I've come to distrust pretty much everybody. They all have an axe to grind, and it seems they're willing to say anything about anybody - true or not - if it will advance their agenda.

 

[CowboyJD]

I guess JD hasn't seen this thread yet.

I guess JD hasn't seen this thread yet.

Gorka's a hack and a bad choice and a poor excuse for an advisor to the NSC.

He may or may not be an anti-Semite. Probably not a Nazi sympathizer. I don't believe Trump is an anti-Semite.

 

[MegaPoke]

@CowboyJD - first 3 posts ITT:

1. Gorka is a nazi
2. Most compromised White House in history
3. Super villain.

I feel like this is the kind of thread you would rip NZ for. Mostly giving you shit.

 

[CowboyJD]

@CowboyJD - first 3 posts ITT:

1. Gorka is a nazi
2. Most compromised White House in history
3. Super villain.

I feel like this is the kind of thread you would rip NZ for. Mostly giving you shit.

I mostly rip NZ for spamming the board and doing nothing else. Wood's first post was his own production and not a link to a 45 minute video.

And have you heard Gorka speak? He does kinda sound like a super villain with that accent.

 

[Been Jammin]

Since none of us know the truth about where his true opinions/philosophies lie perhaps it would be best if we kept our opinions to ourselves.

He chose to enter the political arena. He put himself in position to be put under the microscope and for the public to look for skeletons in his closet.

Right or wrong, it's called "the way it is".

 

[MegaPoke]

I mostly rip NZ for spamming the board and doing nothing else. Wood's first post was his own production and not a link to a 45 minute video.

And have you heard Gorka speak? He does kinda sound like a super villain with that accent.

Oh I completely agree - he does sound like a Bond Villain. Gold finger

 

[Ponca Dan]

He chose to enter the political arena. He put himself in position to be put under the microscope and for the public to look for skeletons in his closet.

Right or wrong, it's called "the way it is".

OK, that's a fair assessment. But calling him a nazi, a nazi sympathizer etc., with no evidence is morally reprehensible (I'm not saying you did, but certainly others did). I have never heard of the man, nor am I familiar with any of the publications he has been associated with. It would be better if those railing against him would debate what he advocates, rather than throw out ad hominem attacks. JD called him a hack, and suggested he should not be allowed to have the position he holds. It would have been better if he had explained what makes him a hack. But, hell, if we're going to deny hacks positions in the government the pool would be so low as to be nonexistent. (What am I saying? I'm a radical libertarian! If eliminating hacks from the pool would eliminate the size and scope of the state I'm all for it! No more hacks from either side!)

 

[Medic007]

Bed shitting?

Generally I lean "yes" on this one.

I concur.

 

[CowboyJD]

OK, that's a fair assessment. But calling him a nazi, a nazi sympathizer etc., with no evidence is morally reprehensible (I'm not saying you did, but certainly others did). I have never heard of the man, nor am I familiar with any of the publications he has been associated with. It would be better if those railing against him would debate what he advocates, rather than throw out ad hominem attacks. JD called him a hack, and suggested he should not be allowed to have the position he holds. It would have been better if he had explained what makes him a hack. But, hell, if we're going to deny hacks positions in the government the pool would be so low as to be nonexistent. (What am I saying? I'm a radical libertarian! If eliminating hacks from the pool would eliminate the size and scope of the state I'm all for it! No more hacks from either side!)

I didn't suggest he "should not be allowed to have the position he holds". I suggested he's unqualified. Since you know nothing about the guy, maybe you ought to do some research of your own to make your own decision. I'm not really here to convince anyone else of anything. Just saying...

 

[Ponca Dan]

I didn't suggest he "should not be allowed to have the position he holds". I suggested he's unqualified. Since you know nothing about the guy, maybe you ought to do some research of your own to make your own decision. I'm not really here to convince anyone else of anything. Just saying...

Excuse me, but saying a man is unqualified for the position he holds strikes me as solid evidence you believe he should not hold that position. Are you saying he should hold his position even though you believe he is unqualified?

You're right in saying I should do my own research, I won't argue with you there.

 

[davidallen]

Since none of us know the truth about where his true opinions/philosophies lie perhaps it would be best if we kept our opinions to ourselves.

Bullshit. You would really prefer silence on questions of public policy and nationality security? Or is this some lame attempt to deflect legitimate concern about the lack of vetting in the new administration?

 

[CowboyJD]

Excuse me, but saying a man is unqualified for the position he holds strikes me as solid evidence you believe he should not hold that position. Are you saying he should hold his position even though you believe he is unqualified?

You're right in saying I should do my own research, I won't argue with you there.

There is a distinct difference between saying "IMO, he should not hold that position because he is unqualified" and "He shouldn't be ALLOWED to hold the position". One is a statement of opinion on qualifications. The other is a statement of advocacy for limiting others personal freedom. Kinda like saying "people shouldn't...." versus "the government should compel people to not...".

There are tons of unqualified people who are allowed to do things they aren't qualified for. I'm saying Trump is allowed to appoint who he wants in these types of positions and I think he should be allowed to do so....even if I think it is a piss poor choice.

 

[wyomingosualum]

Perhaps most importantly (and this is a point that no news outlet, to our knowledge, has brought up), Mr. Gorka’s father never even belonged to the original Order of Vitéz in the first place. Responding in a Breitbart video to the allegations raised against him, Mr. Gorka explained that his father, who had been imprisoned by Communist authorities in 1950 for attempting to organize resistance efforts, had received the Vitéz medal in 1979 “for his resistance to dictatorship.” In addition, Pál Gorka was born in 1930, meaning he was fifteen at the war’s end; considering that the Order of Vitéz was officially banned in 1947, neither Pál Gorka nor, by extension, his son, had any direct connection to the original Order founded by Horthy. The Order was reestablished in exile in the latter half of the 20th century, as a voluntary fraternal organization, but one with no legal standing whatsoever in Hungary. While there may be some question, then, of whether Mr. Gorka is even technically entitled to use the title “Vitéz”, it would be a gross mischaracterization of facts to claim that his wearing of the order’s medal at the Liberty Ball is a direct link to a pro-Nazi group.

So, in other words, at worst, this situation is not nearly as bad as being a democrat. I mean, it's not like the Order of Vitez fought to preserve slavery and Jim Crow laws, right? If we can forgive that sort of thing, then surely we can give this guy the benefit of the doubt.

 

[hollywood]

The "Order of Vitez" was established by Horthy. He was very much an outspoken anti-simite who aligned himself with Hitler, by treaty and committed his nation to fight alongside the Nazis. He was as much a Hitler ally as was Mussolini, Quisling and any other number of collaborators and murderers that fought on behalf of the Third Reich!

Horthy was part of the holocaust, helping German Military and Civilian authorities identify and send Hungarian Jews to the camps/furnace. In other words this is NOT another one of those "he's as bad as Hitler" comparisons that fall short, in this case it's reality, he really was as bad as Hitler!

As part of being awarded with the Order of Vitez, (which was an attempt to create a modern version of an order of knighthood) the recipients of the award were actually given a grant of land along with the distinction. Much of the land given the last 10 yrs or so, was land that was confiscated from Jewish families who were no longer using it, because Horthy and Hitler HAD SENT THEM TO THEIR DEATHS!

Ok, so his dad "fought against communism." Are we supposed to ignore the fact that he did so as a F***ING NAZI! (Hitler fought against communism as well, so we're cool with that right?)

I'm sorry, but this hits close to home with me, having had two dads who fought the f***ing Nazi's, only to see someone wearing the medals and uniforms of two Nazi/Hitler aligned political groups while holding a political office of the USA.

I understand he loves/loved his dad, that I get.... But F*CK him, I loved my dads as well and they weren't a couple of F***ing Nazis! I consider him wearing Nazi Aligned medals and uniforms as coming as close to pissing on my dad's graves (and every other US WWII vet) as one can come. Whether he's an anti-semite or not is really completely irrelevant at this point, it's a GD DISGRACE that he wears the accouterments of NAZI affiliates while attending social and govt functions. If he wants to honor his NAZI loving dad, resign his office and move back to Hungary and stop insulting this nation by wearing NAZI symbols!

BTW, this attempt at deflecting by "it's not a real Order of Vitez medal" is complete BS as it was discontinued in 1944. The group that worked at trying to reestablish the order "in exile" as many of them were booted out of Hungary following WWII for being fascists and in prisons for being war criminals, made some attempt to starting things up again. ALL of those involved in doing that were the NAZI aligned friends of Horthy. So it's not like there is/was a lot of daylight between Horthy's NAZI views and those of the so-called successor group.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's Dad was a StormTrooper and Nazi during WWII. I'm sure he earned some medals for his service as well. I'm equally certain that Arnold loved his dad as well, but he never disgraced himself or his office by dressing up wearing a brown shirt with some of those medals in social or govt functions! Just because these things that Gorka is sporting came from the lesser known Hungarian version of the Nazis doesn't make them any less revolting!

 

[Been Jammin]

The "Order of Vitez" was established by Horthy. He was very much an outspoken anti-simite who aligned himself with Hitler, by treaty and committed his nation to fight alongside the Nazis. He was as much a Hitler ally as was Mussolini, Quisling and any other number of collaborators and murderers that fought on behalf of the Third Reich!

Horthy was part of the holocaust, helping German Military and Civilian authorities identify and send Hungarian Jews to the camps/furnace. In other words this is NOT another one of those "he's as bad as Hitler" comparisons that fall short, in this case it's reality, he really was as bad as Hitler!

As part of being awarded with the Order of Vitez, (which was an attempt to create a modern version of an order of knighthood) the recipients of the award were actually given a grant of land along with the distinction. Much of the land given the last 10 yrs or so, was land that was confiscated from Jewish families who were no longer using it, because Horthy and Hitler HAD SENT THEM TO THEIR DEATHS!

Ok, so his dad "fought against communism." Are we supposed to ignore the fact that he did so as a F***ING NAZI! (Hitler fought against communism as well, so we're cool with that right?)

I'm sorry, but this hits close to home with me, having had two dads who fought the f***ing Nazi's, only to see someone wearing the medals and uniforms of two Nazi/Hitler aligned political groups while holding a political office of the USA.

I understand he loves/loved his dad, that I get.... But F*CK him, I loved my dads as well and they weren't a couple of F***ing Nazis! I consider him wearing Nazi Aligned medals and uniforms as coming as close to pissing on my dad's graves (and every other US WWII vet) as one can come. Whether he's an anti-semite or not is really completely irrelevant at this point, it's a GD DISGRACE that he wears the accouterments of NAZI affiliates while attending social and govt functions. If he wants to honor his NAZI loving dad, resign his office and move back to Hungary and stop insulting this nation by wearing NAZI symbols!