Scuffle.
- Thread starter topc22blue
- Start date
I think your memory is very very good, as I remember all that up to his junior year, especially that he was so dominating on top.
But I thought it was his downfall was he couldn’t get off the bottom. And that John made him take bottom on his choice.
Again, I also could be wrong but that’s what my head is saying.
Haas appears to be a one trick pony. He looks dominant when he gets his throw to the back but when the match continues despite his obvious strength and speed he does not have even have average mat awareness so opponents weather the initial storm and out wrestle him. Witlake needs to return to 165 next year and let our top recruit take over this weight. Not really anything we can do about it this year. This year if we wrestle very hard we might be around #10 and I think that is an optimistic assessment.
Unfortunately I agree with this. I feel like we are at best battling for 10 spot and as low as 18-20 range . Sucks we have fallen so hard
165 is also the toughest weight in college wrestling. He has better chance of AA at 184.
The good news: we wrestled a tough two days, a couple guys looked worn out on the wrestle back side but all wrestled thru to the end no MFF. This should help us end of season. The team did well for who we are this year perhaps not so for two individuals.
The not so good news: don't think we beat (or even faced) a single top 10 wrestler or returning AA.
The not so good news: don't think we beat (or even faced) a single top 10 wrestler or returning AA.
Seems like there's not a lot of love for Kyle Haas on this board. Sure, he made some mental mistakes but that's not uncommon for underclassmen. It's all good experience for him (and a few of the other young guys).
He has two things you can't teach - he's athletic and he's aggressive. Plus he's good on top/bottom. Gas tank is pretty good too and this was his first 2 day weigh in at 184.
He has two things you can't teach - he's athletic and he's aggressive. Plus he's good on top/bottom. Gas tank is pretty good too and this was his first 2 day weigh in at 184.
I like Haas. I think there is a ton of upside. Strong and athletic, need to work on staying focused.
Well it seems like this board lately is mostly interested in the negatives because we win the tournament as an underdog and nary a peep about it. Fact is we have to celebrate every victory because 6/10 starters are either new or at new weights this year. Only Mastro, Fix, Young, and Plott started last year and this year at the same weight. If you can't recognize and celebrate success when it comes then what's the point of being a fan IMO.
Enough of the soapbox though. Despite Flo's plethora of annoyances, I wasn't able to watch much in real time so it was cool to go back after the fact and watch matches on demand. Nice to see Travis Mastro, Jordan Williams, and Kyle Haas wrestle. Travis Mastro has some twitchy speed and can be pretty aggressive. Good stamina throughout matches too. Plott is a beast, loved his fire in the finals match. He really wrestled the entire match which is impressive. Daton was dominant, he's just so dialed in. Wittlake seems to forget that his opponents have legs - and that legs are good for takedowns. He looks great at 184 as an athlete, just keep waiting for him to take shots or create misdirection though. Surber shows some really good wrestling IQ and quickness at times, but makes some weird decisions at other times. Wyatt looked tough as nails in a few of his matches. Stika was a nice surprise with some really gritty wrestling and big moves.
A few nice things about Flo. I thought the announcers in the finals did a really nice job of describing what's going on. Things like "he's looking for his opponent to release shoulder pressure so he can slide down and grab a wrist" are helpful for me to understand the tie-ups. Tie-ups are still a bit mysterious to me. The notification system where I got a text message for every OSU mat assignment was great. And the on demand feature is pretty incredible - just search for the wrestler you want and all his matches are right there! Plus short video times usually meant a pin or a tech so it was fun to cherry pick some dominance to watch.
Enough of the soapbox though. Despite Flo's plethora of annoyances, I wasn't able to watch much in real time so it was cool to go back after the fact and watch matches on demand. Nice to see Travis Mastro, Jordan Williams, and Kyle Haas wrestle. Travis Mastro has some twitchy speed and can be pretty aggressive. Good stamina throughout matches too. Plott is a beast, loved his fire in the finals match. He really wrestled the entire match which is impressive. Daton was dominant, he's just so dialed in. Wittlake seems to forget that his opponents have legs - and that legs are good for takedowns. He looks great at 184 as an athlete, just keep waiting for him to take shots or create misdirection though. Surber shows some really good wrestling IQ and quickness at times, but makes some weird decisions at other times. Wyatt looked tough as nails in a few of his matches. Stika was a nice surprise with some really gritty wrestling and big moves.
A few nice things about Flo. I thought the announcers in the finals did a really nice job of describing what's going on. Things like "he's looking for his opponent to release shoulder pressure so he can slide down and grab a wrist" are helpful for me to understand the tie-ups. Tie-ups are still a bit mysterious to me. The notification system where I got a text message for every OSU mat assignment was great. And the on demand feature is pretty incredible - just search for the wrestler you want and all his matches are right there! Plus short video times usually meant a pin or a tech so it was fun to cherry pick some dominance to watch.
We were the underdog until Cornell, ISU and Mizzu basically dropped out, not so much after.
I'm expecting we'll see Haas in one of the Fri/Sun weekend home dual meets.
People seem to forget he didn’t wrestle his senior year of high school and last year as a redshirt freshman he dealt with a neck injury that kept him off the mat for a significant amount of time. He just needs more matches and you will see just how good he will be.
I was just about to comment on this. Also, I think he suffered an injury early this season in November. Not sure how much time he had to take off for that. I will reiterate what some others have said and that is Haas is very athletic, strong and quick. He does appear to be somewhat “raw” at this level but his mat awareness and IQ will grow with time. I think those two things were the only reasons he lost his matches. He got a lot of mat time in this past weekend and so now the coaches should know where he is at and be aware of what he needs to be working on.
Kyle has a big upside just might take some time. Definitely needs mat time against good wrestlers and the right coach in the corner.
There are quite a few positives from the Scuffle. Surber pretty much beat the number 10 ranked wrestler and Voinivich looked great.
I don’t see that move as the right decision at this point. Will Wyatt wrestle better and have more success than Gfeller? Wyatt is better built for the weight but probably isn’t the better wrestler. Also, we have nobody good to fill the void at 165 if he drops. It would be better to have two good wrestlers at 157 and 165 than have one good wrestler at 157 and nothing at 165. This seems to be the better fit dual wise. Gfeller gives you a better chance at scoring bonus points than Wyatt come NCAA’s as well. And not to mention 165 is a damn meat grinder this year so to AA you need to be really good. Not saying Wyatt isn’t good but just look at the rankings.
Flo asked John about the lineup after the Scuffle. He said it's not set yet and there could still be changes. Maybe that's just coach talk to keep guys on edge, who knows.
If there are changes, a couple of things we learned in 2019...
You need 15 D1 matches at the weight to get an RPI rating. There are 12 duals remaining, plus Big 12s. So it's likely guys would need to go to an Open to get the required # of matches. There's also a minimum of 8 matches needed to get a win %. That probably wouldn't be an issue unless the changes happened really late.
Those minimums could potentially impact NCAA seeding and at large selections (wild cards). Then there's also the potential impact on pre-allocations for the conference. If you don't have 8 matches before Big 12s, you can't earn a spot for the conference.
If there are changes, a couple of things we learned in 2019...
You need 15 D1 matches at the weight to get an RPI rating. There are 12 duals remaining, plus Big 12s. So it's likely guys would need to go to an Open to get the required # of matches. There's also a minimum of 8 matches needed to get a win %. That probably wouldn't be an issue unless the changes happened really late.
Those minimums could potentially impact NCAA seeding and at large selections (wild cards). Then there's also the potential impact on pre-allocations for the conference. If you don't have 8 matches before Big 12s, you can't earn a spot for the conference.
I would personally be really surprised to see any lineup changes moving forward. I think that’s just coach being coach. There is no other options at 125 and Carter is the best 141 we have when looking at the results from SS. Frankly I see no other options with our backups at any weights other than maybe 184. It’s a problem I didn’t realize we seriously had until after the scuffle. We have some good backups but I just don’t think there is anyone you could throw out there that could score you any points at nationals. I will say if Jordan Williams could make 141, which is a far reach I would roll with him over Carter but prob not worth burning his RS.
How I see it is our last 2 recruiting classes do not get me fired up and I'm not sure any of them will be better than a good division 1 wrestler. I have typed we need a bunch of real good wrestlers because we only have 2 of them now ( place in the top 4). I am excited about our 2024 class but 2022 class has been disappointing ( Young, Travis Mastro, Haas and even Voinovich) and our 2023 class is very small and this year has not demonstrated that either Williams or Blankenship is going to be a real good wrestler. Potential of each class was much greater than performance. I have begun to be concerned about our coaches and the lack of development of our wrestlers. Young wrestlers pulling off upsets of rated wrestlers is what we need. Someone wrote that we did not upset 1 highly rated wrestler ( just depressing).
I wouldn’t give up on those 4 just yet.
Voinovich especially appears to have the tools to be real good. He is through the first 1/3 of his first season.
How many highly rated wrestlers were in the tournament? Highly rated being top 4…..I assume.
I liked what I saw from Voinovich at the scuffle. He made 1 mistake and got high on March otherwise he would have won being up 3-0 at the time. I think he will be very competitive in another year. I see him being AA material in the future with his work ethic. I also really liked what I saw from Jordan Williams. I am very high on him. He beat the kid from Maryland who was the #20 ranked on intermat and gave March everything he could handle losing by 1 point and taking him down 3-4 times. Jordan just needs to add some muscle and keep his focus throughout the match. He looks so loose when he wrestles it’s hard to tell where his head is at. Don’t quote me on this but I think Jordan will have a really nice college career and be a great wrestler for us. We’ve all been wrong before but he has all the tangibles you need. I think it really comes down to which weight he ends up at and his discipline in the weight room.
We had some upsets based on Intermat's rankings. Maybe no huge ones, but they all count. Williams, Sheets (Wyatt), Stika, Haas & Surber all beat a ranked guy ahead of them.
And another nugget, Haas jumped 38 spots in WrestleStat's latest rankings. He's now #31 in the country.
And another nugget, Haas jumped 38 spots in WrestleStat's latest rankings. He's now #31 in the country.
Not going to Happen, But if Carter Young could make 133 Maybe have Young at 133 and Fix at 141, Fix is good enough that he could do great a Weight Up, Might Win it at 133 he gets another shot at the Penn State 133 pounder Bravo Young, Carter Young is too weak for 141, he still has big problems in the Bottom Position he would likely do better if he could go 133.
Again This will NOT Happen, I am sure Fix wants to avenge his 2 NCAA Losses.
Not trying to Bash C. Young, I just do not see him doing well as far as NCAA Points at 141 and maybe he would do better at 133 Just an opinion.
Again This will NOT Happen, I am sure Fix wants to avenge his 2 NCAA Losses.
Not trying to Bash C. Young, I just do not see him doing well as far as NCAA Points at 141 and maybe he would do better at 133 Just an opinion.
You have said similar things about Plott in the past . Maybe you aren’t really really good at evaluating talent .
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It seems like OSU has three 133 pounders in the lineup, problem being one is at 125 and one at 141 😊. Feels like it would be great to have one or both Redshirt next year to help sort some things out.
We all miss on our evaluations. Didn't you guarantee that Carter Young would AA last season? I predicted that Luke Mechler would win the starting spot at 157 this year. Fans are wrong all the time. So are the rankers and D1 coaches.
Harley is as good at evaluating talent as anyone on this board IMO. If anything, he's maybe a little impatient and wants to see improvement quickly. And it's hard to blame him with PSU putting a bunch of freshmen in the finals while we're in the middle of a 16 year drought.
Mastro too big for 125, Young too small for 141 and Fix can wrestle all 3! Lol
I’m not evaluating I’m a fan who wants the wrestlers to win . If you come on the forum and nitpick every wrestler on the roster . You should be subjected to the same . It’s no Ill will towards Harley . It’s easy to be negative then say I hope I’m wrong though.
If you’re asking about Plott’s 4-3 win in the Big 12 finals last year then the answer is yes. Not sure what you’re implying ? Plott does appear to be the gem of that sophomore class. Mocco is currently ranked just outside the top 10 at 174
I think Harley's evaluations are great. He's pretty bearish on most of them, which I think is a healthy way for me to balance what I'm seeing as I usually look with a very bullish eye. He's sees the flaws and those need to be pointed out. They're also usually accurate.
He was beaten by the Missouri back up last year . Development is happening with him.
Agree as to Plott which is why I mentioned him separately. The rest of that class not so much.
That’s not true though Ferrari won a National Championship. I know he isn’t on the team anymore.Surber made to the Big 12 finals last year looks to be wrestling the best of his career right now . Mastro has a problem getting of bottom and hopefully he can fix that.
