Question: citizens of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE killed > 3,000 Americans
- Thread starter CowboyUp
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Pay attention...Huh??
Trump is President now. He can do anything he wants within the law.
No.....it's in one of the two immigration threads....shouldn't be too hard to find. Could use the search function on site and input Saudi Arabia. That should get you there.
Personally if I were POTUS I would not have issued a ban.
However--I would have instituted mandatory profiling of every non-US citizen entering America from the Middle East, with intensive vetting of all visitors with any Middle Eastern visas of known terrorist havens on their passport.
Oh, so you've been to Yemen lately and you want to visit America? Fine. Have a Snickers....In fact you may want a whole box and a toothbrush because you're going to be here for a while!
Detention? Not necessarily.
Profiling Middle Easterners? Mandatory.
However--I would have instituted mandatory profiling of every non-US citizen entering America from the Middle East, with intensive vetting of all visitors with any Middle Eastern visas of known terrorist havens on their passport.
Oh, so you've been to Yemen lately and you want to visit America? Fine. Have a Snickers....In fact you may want a whole box and a toothbrush because you're going to be here for a while!
Detention? Not necessarily.
Profiling Middle Easterners? Mandatory.
There is no ban. It's a pause while we put the permanent solution in place.
They screwed up by including green card holders and those with work visas (already holding). They have already corrected the green card issue.
In a few months, the formal policy will be rolled out and the temporary freeze will be lifted.
Fair enough. Hope he adds the home countries of bin laden and the 9/11 hijackers before the permanent solution takes effect.
His countries are based on a law passed by congress. But I'm with you in Saudia Arabia.
The country that gave Hillary more than $25,000,000? I'm glad you've realized what a slimy bought and paid for piece of shit she was. I'm skeptical, but we'll see what Trump does for peeons like you and I.
Yes, same country that gave $1.476 billion to Bush/Cheney and their allied companies and institutions.
Trump is heavily invested in Egypt, SA & UAE. Shouldn't matter though. Security of America is at stake. All Middle Eastern visitors to US should be profiled and vetted--most especially those from homelands of the hijackers.
Have the actually amended the EO or just basically said "trust us"?
Alternate facts and all that....
Good question. I know DHS has said it doesn't apply to green card holders. I'm not sure the EO said it DOES apply to green card holders though, so not sure an amendment is definitely required, although it should be written in very clear text...
No, my problem is that it was unlawful and unconstitutional when it came to its application to green card holders.
When the courts told them it was unconstitutional and enjoined that particular application, it is to their credit that they said they won't enforce it in those particularities....though I'm not sure I believe them because they are equivocating with a "case by case" basis caveat.
There's a difference between clumsy wording and clearly unlawful that you back off once you get called to the carpet by the judiciary.
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Ok. They were unconstitutional for a Saturday and another way of phrasing getting called to the carpet by the judiciary is the system worked.
A minus?
A minus?
They were unconstitutional from the get go....I would characterize it more as Trump trying to work the system (unsuccessfully) rather than the system working....and I'm not certain they are actually following the court order. Their response leaves plenty of room for question..."case-by-case basis and alternate facts and all that.
Your efforts to minimize my concerns about authoritarianism notwithstanding, give yourself whatever grade you would like.
Their are two schools of thought apparently. When the court order went through some beleive trump was like oh shit we forgot about that whole visa thing or damn they caught us trying to ban legal visa holders.
Amateur hour or unconstitutional fascist (the actual definition not the one over used for anything and everything)
Amateur hour or unconstitutional fascist (the actual definition not the one over used for anything and everything)
I get that, and I don't definitively know which one it is....can only go with my "feeling" on that one.
I will say neither one gives me warm fuzzies on what's still to come....and
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
they are both potentially scary. Trump was supposed to surround himself with the best minds, that was the sell on a non politician. The first option pours water on that.
The second option has its own dichotomy. Circumvent the constitution if possible for nefarious reasons (racism) or colonel Jessup doing what he thinks is best for the country whether you have to color outside the lines or not.
Most everyone has made their mind up on his motivations to be president. We are going to smash every decision into that mold and try to make it fit.
What do you think his motivations and character are? I think you are like my dad that you can't stand his personality and you see the decisions from a slime ball Yankee and a narcissist (guilty guilty guilty) but I hope you at least see him as trying to save the world in his own crude short tempered thin skinned way.
The second option has its own dichotomy. Circumvent the constitution if possible for nefarious reasons (racism) or colonel Jessup doing what he thinks is best for the country whether you have to color outside the lines or not.
Most everyone has made their mind up on his motivations to be president. We are going to smash every decision into that mold and try to make it fit.
What do you think his motivations and character are? I think you are like my dad that you can't stand his personality and you see the decisions from a slime ball Yankee and a narcissist (guilty guilty guilty) but I hope you at least see him as trying to save the world in his own crude short tempered thin skinned way.
If it stays as a temporary thing and the vetting process is improved and Muslims continue to be accepted this will go down in history as a moderate action.
Do I think he is actively evil? No
Do I think his active desire and action is to become a totalitarian dictator? No.
Do I think he is a slime ball Yankee narcissist? Absolutely
Do I think he can effectively run the country like he runs his businesses? Nope. Politics is a different ballgame. Hope I proven wrong.
Beyond that, I don't know what his motivations are. I doubt they are either purely altruistic and honorable or egotistic and dishonorable.
One of the reasons I really try to judge his actions on their own merits in a sort of a "personality/motivation vacuum"
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If...if...if....three of them, but yes, if all three come true history will judge this event kindly.
