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Not political but....

DrunkenViking

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Dec 26, 2017
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why are Jews Caucasian if the Israelites were a “colored” people?

Just curious, no racist intended. Actaually want to hear thoughts from anyone who may have studied the Israel.
 
why are Jews Caucasian if the Israelites were a “colored” people?

Just curious, no racist intended. Actaually want to hear thoughts from anyone who may have studied the Israel.

We talked about this months ago. I forgot the point the other person was trying to make other than trying to claim they weren't Jews, which they are.

These were the Jews of the Diaspora, settled in Europe.
 
We talked about this months ago. I forgot the point the other person was trying to make other than trying to claim they weren't Jews, which they are.

These were the Jews of the Diaspora, settled in Europe.

Not my goal at all.

What about the ten tribes of the house of Israel after their forced migration to northern Assyria?

Where did they disperse to from there?

I know that they will be reunited according to prophecy but I’m curious about evidence biblical and historical, of where they possibly went.
 
Not my goal at all.

What about the ten tribes of the house of Israel after their forced migration to northern Assyria?

Where did they disperse to from there?

I know that they will be reunited according to prophecy but I’m curious about evidence biblical and historical, of where they possibly went.

Well we know from Paul's writings there were Jews all across Europe as far away as Rome. That was 2000 years ago.
 
Well we know from Paul's writings there were Jews all across Europe as far away as Rome. That was 2000 years ago.

Jews but my question was about the northern kingdom of Israel. We have a pretty good track on the southern kingdom of Judah.

All Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.
 
Jews but my question was about the northern kingdom of Israel. We have a pretty good track on the southern kingdom of Judah.

All Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.

True comment. Great question.

The Jews generally dispersed from Jerusalem after Rome destroyed the temple (if I remember correctly 70 AD).

Without taking the time to look it up (and I can later if you want) I think many in the northern 10 tribes disappeared through intermarriage and cultural assimilation. This is where the Samaritans in the New Testament came from.

Jews (from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin) held onto their cultural identity and resented the Samaritans for what they perceived as compromise.
 
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During the middle ages, tribes and kingdoms in central Asia and far eastern Europe frequently converted wholesale to Judaism in order to triangulate between the Byzantine empire and the various Islamic empires. This does include the Khazars.
 
DNA sequencing / Genomics company co-founded by Google employees discovers inconvenient information on this subject, using their advanced technology.

So like any socially conscious science company would do — they apologize for their science, and simply change their data (on the spot) into a more ideologically friendly narrative.



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Source: https://forward.com/news/breaking-n...zi-jews-they-could-be-descended-from-khazars/

We've been thru this song and dance before. Do you want to do it again?

Efforts to identify the origins of Ashkenazi Jews through DNA analysis began in the 1990s. Currently, there are three types of genetic origin testing, autosomal DNA (atDNA), mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), and Y-chromosomal DNA (Y-DNA). Autosomal DNA is a mixture from an individual's entire ancestry, Y-DNA shows a male's lineage only along his strict paternal line, mtDNA shows any person's lineage only along the strict maternal line. Genome-wide association studies have also been employed to yield findings relevant to genetic origins.

Like most DNA studies of human migration patterns, the earliest studies on Ashkenazi Jews focused on the Y-DNA and mtDNA segments of the human genome. Both segments are unaffected by recombination (except for the ends of the Y chromosome – the pseudoautosomal regions known as PAR1 and PAR2), thus allowing tracing of direct maternal and paternal lineages.

These studies revealed that Ashkenazi Jews originate from an ancient (2000 BCE - 700 BCE) population of the Middle East who had spread to Europe.[127] Ashkenazic Jews display the homogeneity of a genetic bottleneck, meaning they descend from a larger population whose numbers were greatly reduced but recovered through a few founding individuals. Although the Jewish people, in general, were present across a wide geographical area as described, genetic research done by Gil Atzmon of the Longevity Genes Project at Albert Einstein College of Medicine suggests "that Ashkenazim branched off from other Jews around the time of the destruction of the First Temple, 2,500 years ago ... flourished during the Roman Empire but then went through a 'severe bottleneck' as they dispersed, reducing a population of several million to just 400 families who left Northern Italy around the year 1000 for Central and eventually Eastern Europe."[128]

Various studies have arrived at diverging conclusions regarding both the degree and the sources of the non-Levantine admixture in Ashkenazim,[33] particularly with respect to the extent of the non-Levantine genetic origin observed in Ashkenazi maternal lineages, which is in contrast to the predominant Levantine genetic origin observed in Ashkenazi paternal lineages. All studies nevertheless agree that genetic overlap with the Fertile Crescent exists in both lineages, albeit at differing rates. Collectively, Ashkenazi Jews are less genetically diverse than other Jewish ethnic divisions, due to their genetic bottleneck.[129]
 
I am not saying that it in anyway involves the Ashkenazi, but it is a historical fact that the Khazars converted to Judaism.
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/khazar-myth-busted-1.5253397

The Khazar thesis gained global prominence when Prof. Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University published “The Invention of the Jewish People” in 2008. In that book, which became a best seller and was translated into several languages, Sand argued that the “Jewish people” is an invention, forged out of myths and fictitious “history” to justify Jewish ownership of the Land of Israel.

Now, another Israeli historian has challenged one of the foundations of Sand’s argument: his claim that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the people of the Khazar kingdom, who in the eighth century converted en masse on the instruction of their king. In an article published this month in the journal “Jewish Social Studies,” Prof. Shaul Stampfer concluded that there is no evidence to support this assertion.

“Such a conversion, even though it’s a wonderful story, never happened,” Stampfer said.

Stampfer, an expert in Jewish history, analyzed material from various fields, but found no reliable source for the claim that the Khazars – a multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians – converted to Judaism. “There never was a conversion by the Khazar king or the Khazar elite,” he said. “The conversion of the Khazars is a myth with no factual basis.”

As a historian, he said he was surprised to discover how hard it is “to prove that something didn’t happen. Until now, most of my research has been aimed at discovering or clarifying what did happen in the past ... It’s a much more difficult challenge to prove that something didn’t happen than to prove it did.”

That’s because the proof is based primarily on the absence of evidence rather than its presence – like the fact that an event as unprecedented as an entire kingdom’s conversion to Judaism merited no mention in contemporaneous sources. “The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”

The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”

Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught. “It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,” he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”
 
https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/khazar-myth-busted-1.5253397

The Khazar thesis gained global prominence when Prof. Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University published “The Invention of the Jewish People” in 2008. In that book, which became a best seller and was translated into several languages, Sand argued that the “Jewish people” is an invention, forged out of myths and fictitious “history” to justify Jewish ownership of the Land of Israel.

Now, another Israeli historian has challenged one of the foundations of Sand’s argument: his claim that Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the people of the Khazar kingdom, who in the eighth century converted en masse on the instruction of their king. In an article published this month in the journal “Jewish Social Studies,” Prof. Shaul Stampfer concluded that there is no evidence to support this assertion.

“Such a conversion, even though it’s a wonderful story, never happened,” Stampfer said.

Stampfer, an expert in Jewish history, analyzed material from various fields, but found no reliable source for the claim that the Khazars – a multiethnic kingdom that included Iranians, Turks, Slavs and Circassians – converted to Judaism. “There never was a conversion by the Khazar king or the Khazar elite,” he said. “The conversion of the Khazars is a myth with no factual basis.”

As a historian, he said he was surprised to discover how hard it is “to prove that something didn’t happen. Until now, most of my research has been aimed at discovering or clarifying what did happen in the past ... It’s a much more difficult challenge to prove that something didn’t happen than to prove it did.”

That’s because the proof is based primarily on the absence of evidence rather than its presence – like the fact that an event as unprecedented as an entire kingdom’s conversion to Judaism merited no mention in contemporaneous sources. “The silence of so many sources about the Khazars’ Judaism is very suspicious,” Stampfer said. “The Byzantines, the geonim [Jewish religious leaders of the sixth to eleventh centuries], the sages of Egypt – none of them have a word about the Jewish Khazars.”

The research ended up taking him four years. “I thought I’d finish in two months, but I discovered that there was a huge amount of work. I had to check sources that aren’t in my field, and I consulted and got help from many people.”

Stampfer said his research had no political motives, though he recognizes that the topic is politically fraught. “It’s a really interesting historical question, but it has political implications,” he said. “As a historian, I’m naturally worried by the misuse of history. I think history should be removed from political discussions, but anyone who nevertheless wants to use history must at least present the correct facts. In this case, the facts are that the Khazars didn’t convert, the Jews aren’t descendants of the Khazars and the contemporary political problems between Israelis and Palestinians must be dealt with on the basis of current reality, not on the basis of a fictitious past.”
Sorry, but one guy arguing from silence doesn't negate things like the Moses is God's Messenger coinage or The Letter of King Joseph.
 
Sorry, but one guy arguing from silence doesn't negate things like the Moses is God's Messenger coinage or The Letter of King Joseph.

No contemporary evidence is a strong sign post in the historical discussion.

It doesn't matter one way or the other to me.

For instance, we do know that the Hebrews often integrated other peoples into their genealogical vine. The story of Ruth wonderfully illistratrs this point. She married a Hebrew from the tribe of Judah and was included in king David and Jesus Christ's genealogical heritage.

It seems they became much more anal about pure bloodlines after the Babylonian captivity (which is why they hated Samaritans).
 
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What is interesting is that Shepardic Jews and Palestinians are virtually genetically identical.

To me it makes sense. Many of the Tribe of Judah that stayed after Babylon would have eventually converted to Islam and assimilated. With those peoples. It was too expensive not too once Islam took over.
 
See, we have a pretty good hold on the House of Judah which was made up of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

As to the house of Israel which is made up of Asher, Dan, Ephraim, Manasseh, Gad, Issachar, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, and Zebulun there may still be prophecy to fulfill, namely with Ephraim and Manasseh.

The tribe of Dan was read headed and it looks like there is a good argument for them moving to Northern Europe.

Regarding Ephraim and Manasseh:

Genesis 48


13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel’s left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel’s right hand, and brought them near unto him.

14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who wasthe younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his handswittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15 ¶ And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.

21 And Israel said unto Joseph, Behold, I die: but God shall be with you, and bringyou again unto the land of your fathers.

22 Moreover I have given to thee one portion above thy brethren, which I took out of the hand of the Amorite with my sword and with my bow.

So has this multitude become great nations or it still yet to occur?

This is pretty significant with the end times prophecy
 
To me it makes sense. Many of the Tribe of Judah that stayed after Babylon would have eventually converted to Islam and assimilated. With those peoples. It was too expensive not too once Islam took over.
In practice the tax benefits of conversion did not extend to people who weren't ethnically Quraysh.
 
Under Saladin? Didn’t know that
I'm sure by the time Saladin was running things, it was better administrated, but during the first hundred years after the Islamic conquests(the Umayyad Caliphate) practically all the conquered people had to pay the jizya. Even after all that got straightened out, paying the jizya was a good deal since it exempted you from military service and paying the zakat.
 
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Ok -- would you rather me delete?

I don’t care if you delete.

But none of it tells me why they are Caucasian.

Unless you are insinuating that all whites find themselves to be superior.

I’m honestly confused at your reply
 
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